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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor

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Rubikant

Member
What would be the advantages of using something such as say Unity over Game Maker? Is it just easier to code?

All canned engines like Unity, Game Maker, RPG Maker, Multimedia Fusion, etc have some kind of core game type in mind that they work best for, even if they claim they are ready for any game idea you can come up with. They are all more hassle-free than rolling your own engine, but the downside is inevitably you will want to implement a game feature that the engine just wasn't designed for and have to do crazy workarounds to get it to work.

Game Maker and MMF seems best for classic 2D games, particularly platformers, RPG Maker is obviously made for JRPGs. Unity was clearly designed for 3rd-person 3D action adventures with staticly-populated maps (trust me, at my previous job a lot of our games involved dynamically-spawned enemies with various randomly-generated stats in a single map, Unity was NOT built for that and we got it to work but it took a lot of workarounds and custom plug-ins).

That doesn't mean you can't make a wide variety of other types of games, it just means you need to do a little extra work to get them to do what you want when you go outside of the core game styles the engine's developers had in mind. The ones that offer plug-ins really help that process (one of the things that helped Unity become popular, though I personally believe having a free version that had the majority of features available and option to publish without ever paying Unity a dime is the biggest contributor to their initial success).

Of course you are also restricted to what platforms that engine is built for, so that's something else to consider.

I spent a long time working with RAD (rapid application development) tools like Unity and its many predecessors from other companies for my hobbyist game projects, but eventually I grew tired of dealing with crazy workarounds or spending hours debugging a problem only to discover it was an issue with the engine and not my game code. I wanted an engine to do exactly what I wanted to do and nothing more or less, so, after reading an interview with Jonathan Blow (Braid) where he made some good points about the advantages of using straight c++, I decided to just make my own engine (though used an open-source framework as a starting point to get past the hardest stuff quickly - I'm not crazy enough to start from scratch!).

It sucked a lot of time away from actually developing the game, doing tech support for it really sucked as I mentioned earlier, and we're still working on getting it ported to other platforms that would have been available out-of-the-box if we had went with Unity or the like. I often wonder if it was a mistake to do it, but every once in a while I see someone complaining about how their engine of choice is doing something weird and they can't figure out why its doing it or how to get around it, and I'm reminded how I have 100% access to all the code that is running my game and engine so anything that goes wrong I can debug it down to the most basic level myself, or change the engine's functionality to suit the current game's needs at will, and that makes me feel better about doing it the way I did. Plus, hey, a friend of mine got Volgarr working on the Dreamcast - try THAT with Unity :p.

That said, I would not suggest anyone try to roll their own engine unless you are like me and have been programming for years and years (I'd been a hobbyist programmer for over 25 years myself, with 7 of those as an in-industry professional, before I tried using a custom c++ engine).
 
Your game's artwork is just soooooooo goooood. The shadows really improve the atmosphere of that scene.

Going to unity pro was definitely a huge improvement, awesome work!

Thanks :D
I'm definitely starting to prefer it to the 2D look now. We're very lucky we managed to adapt our art to this style with minimal stress.

I messed around a little more with all the lovely shader & post-process stuff

vsU0Tys.png


Note, this is me just messing about with tilt-shift and bloom, when our Art Director starts actually working with it, I think it will look pretty badass
 
All canned engines like Unity, Game Maker, RPG Maker, Multimedia Fusion, etc have some kind of core game type in mind that they work best for, even if they claim they are ready for any game idea you can come up with. They are all more hassle-free than rolling your own engine, but the downside is inevitably you will want to implement a game feature that the engine just wasn't designed for and have to do crazy workarounds to get it to work.

Game Maker and MMF seems best for classic 2D games, particularly platformers, RPG Maker is obviously made for JRPGs. Unity was clearly designed for 3rd-person 3D action adventures with staticly-populated maps (trust me, at my previous job a lot of our games involved dynamically-spawned enemies with various randomly-generated stats in a single map, Unity was NOT built for that and we got it to work but it took a lot of workarounds and custom plug-ins).

That doesn't mean you can't make a wide variety of other types of games, it just means you need to do a little extra work to get them to do what you want when you go outside of the core game styles the engine's developers had in mind. The ones that offer plug-ins really help that process (one of the things that helped Unity become popular, though I personally believe having a free version that had the majority of features available and option to publish without ever paying Unity a dime is the biggest contributor to their initial success).

Of course you are also restricted to what platforms that engine is built for, so that's something else to consider.

I spent a long time working with RAD (rapid application development) tools like Unity and its many predecessors from other companies for my hobbyist game projects, but eventually I grew tired of dealing with crazy workarounds or spending hours debugging a problem only to discover it was an issue with the engine and not my game code. I wanted an engine to do exactly what I wanted to do and nothing more or less, so, after reading an interview with Jonathan Blow (Braid) where he made some good points about the advantages of using straight c++, I decided to just make my own engine (though used an open-source framework as a starting point to get past the hardest stuff quickly - I'm not crazy enough to start from scratch!).

It sucked a lot of time away from actually developing the game, doing tech support for it really sucked as I mentioned earlier, and we're still working on getting it ported to other platforms that would have been available out-of-the-box if we had went with Unity or the like. I often wonder if it was a mistake to do it, but every once in a while I see someone complaining about how their engine of choice is doing something weird and they can't figure out why its doing it or how to get around it, and I'm reminded how I have 100% access to all the code that is running my game and engine so anything that goes wrong I can debug it down to the most basic level myself, or change the engine's functionality to suit the current game's needs at will, and that makes me feel better about doing it the way I did. Plus, hey, a friend of mine got Volgarr working on the Dreamcast - try THAT with Unity :p.

That said, I would not suggest anyone try to roll their own engine unless you are like me and have been programming for years and years (I'd been a hobbyist programmer for over 25 years myself, with 7 of those as an in-industry professional, before I tried using a custom c++ engine).

I see thanks. Very informative.

I hope that I will eventually (down the road) I make a game that's sort of like Dungeon Explorer meets Digimon World. Do you think Game Maker can handle that?
 

cbox

Member
Thanks :D
I'm definitely starting to prefer it to the 2D look now. We're very lucky we managed to adapt our art to this style with minimal stress.

I messed around a little more with all the lovely shader & post-process stuff





Note, this is me just messing about with tilt-shift and bloom, when our Art Director starts actually working with it, I think it will look pretty badass

I'm jelly! Tilt shift is one feature I'd LOVE to have with Shwip but we aren't sure how to implement it in 2d with xna. Would really change the final look of the game.
 

Five

Banned
Holy shit. Could one of the mods that browse this thread give an honorary membership to backstep?

I see thanks. Very informative.

I hope that I will eventually (down the road) I make a game that's sort of like Dungeon Explorer meets Digimon World. Do you think Game Maker can handle that?

3D is not GameMaker's forte at all. It's technically possible, but more work than worth. So Dungeon Explorer, easily, but Digimon World not so much. GM is truly fantastic for most 2D stuff, but its 3D support is the barest of bare bones.
 

Popstar

Member
Code:
glBindBuffer(GL_ARRAY_BUFFER, 7);
glVertexAttribPointer(0, 2, GL_FLOAT, FALSE, 16, 0x00000000); //position
glVertexAttribPointer(1, 2, GL_FLOAT, FALSE, 16, 0x00000008); //texcoord
Specifically it's the 5th parameter to the glVertexAttribPointer calls that is causing the crashes, which is the stride (the data offset to read a single attribute type from an interleaved VBO), that is currently set to 16 (bytes).

If the stride is corrected to 8 bytes then it should stop the crashes when the draw call is issued. I'll try to explain why.
No, a stride of 16 is correct. The stride is measured from the beginning of an attribute to the beginning of the same attribute in the next vertex.

For an interleaved array that will be the size of the entire vertex which is 16 bytes (4 floats x 4 bytes each float) in this case.
 
Holy shit. Could one of the mods that browse this thread give an honorary membership to backstep?



3D is not GameMaker's forte at all. It's technically possible, but more work than worth. So Dungeon Explorer, easily, but Digimon World not so much. GM is truly fantastic for most 2D stuff, but its 3D support is the barest of bare bones.

I'm planning to use 2D graphics completely. Plus Digimon World is really 2D except the character model graphics.
 

Interfectum

Member
I realize that. I just didn't know that those software could go so far. All I remember from RPG Maker when I used it when I was 14 was that it was difficult to make anything that wasn't a RPG or a Visual Novel. I couldn't have imagine making a game like To the Moon with the software.

What would be the advantages of using something such as say Unity over Game Maker? Is it just easier to code?

I'd say Unity is one of the best engines to learn right now thanks to the sheer amount of options it provides and doors it opens. 2D, 3D, asset store, huge community, viable programming language (c#), and tons of platforms to compile to. Learning Unity is also great for potential future job prospects. Hell even Blizzard is using it.

If you start learning Game Maker for one game, RPG Maker for another game and a custom engine for another game that is less time spent on design and more time spent on wrestling with engines and coding.

Is making an RPG easier in RPG Maker than Unity? Sure. But after a bit of time and research you can easily make an RPG on the engine. And the best part is all the knowledge you learned can be used when you want to, say, make a 2D action game or 3D racer for Unity as well. Same coding style and development environment.

And I would strongly advise against coding an engine from scratch. If you want to be the next John Carmack then write your own engine, otherwise go with Unity.
 

backstep

Neo Member
No, a stride of 16 is correct. The stride is measured from the beginning of an attribute to the beginning of the same attribute in the next vertex.

For an interleaved array that will be the size of the entire vertex which is 16 bytes (4 floats x 4 bytes each float) in this case.

You're totally right, my mistake. I was trusting the stride length from that debugger, but I just checked the khronos website and it should be the entire vertex size (4 * float = 16 bytes).

thanks so much for this detailed response -- I am not that much of a tech guy, so I don't fully understand it, but I have passed it on to the stencyl team and am hoping it leads somewhere!

Given the above, you should disregard my long winded explanation earlier. Sorry. :)

If you do have access to the source code for your post process vertex shader, it might be worth changing the erroneous "attribute vec4 aVertex;" declaration to a vec2. It's possible the nvidia driver compiles it happily but doesn't run it without issue.
 

Rubikant

Member
Please don't assume someone "wants to be the next John Carmack" just because they aren't using fucking Unity.

True, I'm not looking to be the next John Carmack, I just found Unity's support for certain features I was looking for to be lacking and didn't want to deal with it. I hear its gotten better at some of the things I had issues with since then but at the time it would have been a real pain. Plus I didn't want to be tied to an engine that might suddenly stop being supported/updated at some future point, or had some bug that greatly affected my progress that I had to wait around for them to fix, or that may end up not supporting a future platform I wanted to release my game on.

That said, I do agree that you shouldn't try to make your own c++ engine unless you are already a veteran programmer, preferably one that has worked directly with (and updated) existing c++ game engines. Or at the least, don't be like me and refuse to use any middleware libraries besides DirectX/OpenGL (and SDL but only for Mac/Linux port) just because you like the idea of your game being a single .exe with no .dll's needing to come with it or extra runtime libraries (like .NET) having to be installed alongside the game. That's just insane for anyone that isn't a stubborn old fogey programmer like me ;).
 

Blizzard

Banned
You're totally right, my mistake. I was trusting the stride length from that debugger, but I just checked the khronos website and it should be the entire vertex size (4 * float = 16 bytes).

If you do have access to the source code for your post process vertex shader, it might be worth changing the erroneous "attribute vec4 aVertex;" declaration to a vec2. It's possible the nvidia driver compiles it happily but doesn't run it without issue.
I'm pretty ignorant of the details of shaders and such -- if 16 bytes was correct for the stride after all, what is the explanation for the cause of the crash there?
 
Welp. Fired my program lead today. Got into it with my artist and I didn't appreciate it. The "god" attitude came out and that did it for me. I can't stand that shit. None of us are amazing or have a leg to stand on as a small studio so pretentious BS can hit the street. This now means a larger workload for me. I'll need to assess current/potential projects if I'm going to spend the next year or two creating, might as well be on something that has weight and hopefully lasting impact. I might just go straight for the heart. Will take a week to think about it.
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
Welp. Fired my program lead today. Got into it with my artist and I didn't appreciate it. The "god" attitude came out and that did it for me. I can't stand that shit. None of us are amazing or have a leg to stand on as a small studio so pretentious BS can hit the street. This now means a larger workload for me. I'll need to assess current/potential projects if I'm going to spend the next year or two creating, might as well be on something that has weight and hopefully lasting impact. I might just go straight for the heart. Will take a week to think about it.

Best of luck. That is a tough situation to be in.
 

Feep

Banned
Welp. Fired my program lead today. Got into it with my artist and I didn't appreciate it. The "god" attitude came out and that did it for me. I can't stand that shit. None of us are amazing or have a leg to stand on as a small studio so pretentious BS can hit the street. This now means a larger workload for me. I'll need to assess current/potential projects if I'm going to spend the next year or two creating, might as well be on something that has weight and hopefully lasting impact. I might just go straight for the heart. Will take a week to think about it.
Rough, man. But I need that sweet, sweet wall jumping goodness! Gogogogo!
 

Noogy

Member
The ProCore bundle is currently half-off on the Unity asset store ($150 > $75). While I haven't touched it yet, I've had on my eye on it for a while. Seems to have some nice in-editor building tools, something I was surprised wasn't already part of Unity.

It's been over a decade since I messed with UnrealEd, but I imagine the ProCore bundle allows you to build content in a similar fashion
 
The ProCore bundle is currently half-off on the Unity asset store ($150 > $75). While I haven't touched it yet, I've had on my eye on it for a while. Seems to have some nice in-editor building tools, something I was surprised wasn't already part of Unity.

It's been over a decade since I messed with UnrealEd, but I imagine the ProCore bundle allows you to build content in a similar fashion

And, as I mentioned before, Prototype (the basic version of ProBuilder) is free for the whole of September. Which is pretty cool.
 

Five

Banned
Prepping for a new teaser video, slow motion is an amazing tool :D

ImpressiveGorgeousBoa.gif


GreenMiserlyCapybara.gif

At the least, it's a good substitute for not being able to otherwise show your game running in 60 fps. It gives a good idea of what's actually going on, which can be helpful to novices.

Those GIFs look great! ☺︎
 

Five

Banned
Oh dang, this is a thread I like!

Vitrerran%20Title



http://www.dualwieldsoftware.com/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcbmihTaYyw

Been working on this game for a year and a half now with my brother who is...well, doing most of the work if I'm honest. Was his idea to take the card game and put a different spin on it.

Welcome! I like how your game is looking so far. I'm getting some strong Bastion vibes, but also the card game element reminds me of a different project I saw on TIGSource called Guild of Dungeoneering.

I'm actually doing something with cards too, but a lot more like the tarot cards in Binding of Isaac. There's a lot you can do with cards!

I hope you enjoy your stay and post often! :)
 
Welcome! I like how your game is looking so far. I'm getting some strong Bastion vibes, but also the card game element reminds me of a different project I saw on TIGSource called Guild of Dungeoneering.

I'm actually doing something with cards too, but a lot more like the tarot cards in Binding of Isaac. There's a lot you can do with cards!

I hope you enjoy your stay and post often! :)
I can't remember why we decided to go with an isometric graphical route, but i do know we took a look at Bastion to see how they did it. Might as well research those who do it well. Love Bastion.

And yes. I'm not too much of a card gamer, but damn, it's a wide genre. I like it though. the idea of it. I've dabbled in Magic and some other kinds of card games, and the possibilities are insane. It's great.

Hope to post often :p At least I hope to keep an update on content. Hope to have some more stuff ready to show by this weekend.
 

Ashodin

Member
Welp. Fired my program lead today. Got into it with my artist and I didn't appreciate it. The "god" attitude came out and that did it for me. I can't stand that shit. None of us are amazing or have a leg to stand on as a small studio so pretentious BS can hit the street. This now means a larger workload for me. I'll need to assess current/potential projects if I'm going to spend the next year or two creating, might as well be on something that has weight and hopefully lasting impact. I might just go straight for the heart. Will take a week to think about it.

"god" attitude?
 
Feels so good actually working on something that is not core functionality. Making actual enemies and getting the cutscenes going is far more rewarding.
 
The ProCore bundle is currently half-off on the Unity asset store ($150 > $75). While I haven't touched it yet, I've had on my eye on it for a while. Seems to have some nice in-editor building tools, something I was surprised wasn't already part of Unity.

It's been over a decade since I messed with UnrealEd, but I imagine the ProCore bundle allows you to build content in a similar fashion

I bought it today after using Prototype for a couple of days. Let me say: ProBuilder is way, way better than Prototype. ProGrids is also a must-have for any ProBuilder editing as well. ProGroups is also pretty handy. I haven't used the other tools yet.

If you've used Source Engine's Hammer editor, you'll feel right at home. The tools are super intuitive and make extremely complex tasks very easy. The performance is surprisingly good as well.

And, as I mentioned before, Prototype (the basic version of ProBuilder) is free for the whole of September. Which is pretty cool.
That was good as an evaluation, but when they say basic, they mean it. It's still a great tool for blocking out something quick, but Prototype to ProBuilder is kind of like jumping from basic Unity to Prototype all over again.

I'm pretty good at limiting my Asset Store purchases, but this was a no-brainer. It's easily worth the $150, but at $75 it feels like stealing. I'd also like to mention that I've been watching the bundle since they put it up months ago and this is the first time it's been on sale. If you're even vaguely interested in it, I'd recommend getting it.

I'd highly recommend it for anyone interested in 3D or 2.5D games. It'd probably even work pretty well for 2D as well, but I haven't tried that so I can't say it will.
 

Popstar

Member
I'm pretty ignorant of the details of shaders and such -- if 16 bytes was correct for the stride after all, what is the explanation for the cause of the crash there?
It crashes at the call that basically says "draw stuff".

So if anything goes wrong when it draws – bad shader, texture, geometry, etc... – that's where it will crash. It's the most likely and least useful (from a debugging standpoint) place to crash.
 

Blizzard

Banned
It crashes at the call that basically says "draw stuff".

So if anything goes wrong when it draws – bad shader, texture, geometry, etc... – that's where it will crash. It's the most likely and least useful (from a debugging standpoint) place to crash.
But I mean, if the stride was correct, what's making it crash? I thought the explanation from the backstep's detailed post was that the stride was wrong (which turned out not to be the case). Is it potentially the vec2 vs. vec4 type as was mentioned later?
 
I thought I'd show off my party following system as well as two parts of my battle system in gif form: combos and timed strikes. Combos allow you to chain 3 pre-determined moves after a trigger movie is performed in any way. Depending on the chain, a special move can be acted out in the end. Timed strikes allow you to land hits for more damage and perfect accuracy depending on when you press the button in relationship to the circle's location to the button. Both of these should bring about unique strategies the player can use throughout the game.

MagnificentAlarmingKronosaurus.gif
 

bkw

Member
Any recommendations on programs for hd sprite animation? Or perhaps a combination of programs like one for drawing/painting and another to animate? Does anyone use Anime Studio?

I'm trying to find a solution that's not too costly.

I might just crack and subscribe to a year of Creative Cloud, but that's a good chunk of money. Photoshop and Flash would make a good one-two, and I'm sure Premiere/After Effects would come in handy when I need to make trailers. $600 a year is just hard to swallow.
 

Five

Banned
Any recommendations on programs for hd sprite animation? Or perhaps a combination of programs like one for drawing/painting and another to animate? Does anyone use Anime Studio?

I'm trying to find a solution that's not too costly.

I might just crack and subscribe to a year of Creative Cloud, but that's a good chunk of money. Photoshop and Flash would make a good one-two, and I'm sure Premiere/After Effects would come in handy when I need to make trailers. $600 a year is just hard to swallow.

I'm using Illustrator and Spine. Jobbs is just using Photoshop. I think Ito and Pehesse are the same, although I could be wrong. The common solutions definitely aren't cheap.
 
For the past while I had been working on game aspects that didn't involve running the game itself, ie creating the in game language.


Feels good to be back in the dev environment. Fine tuning/balancing all of the mechanics in MP is interesting.

Something I fear I'm falling in to is the same thing PlayStation All Stars had issues with. In that game they flipped around health, making attacks increase your points instead of decreasing enemy points. It theoretically works just about the same, but in the real world with novice players they only focus on their own points and it stops them from bothering to block.


In VizionEck I'm needing to remember that novice players are essentially selfish. They don't want to die not because it gives the enemy points, but because it hurts their K/D ratio.
 

Limanima

Member
All canned engines like Unity, Game Maker, RPG Maker, Multimedia Fusion, etc have some kind of core game type in mind that they work best for, even if they claim they are ready for any game idea you can come up with. They are all more hassle-free than rolling your own engine, but the downside is inevitably you will want to implement a game feature that the engine just wasn't designed for and have to do crazy workarounds to get it to work.

Game Maker and MMF seems best for classic 2D games, particularly platformers, RPG Maker is obviously made for JRPGs. Unity was clearly designed for 3rd-person 3D action adventures with staticly-populated maps (trust me, at my previous job a lot of our games involved dynamically-spawned enemies with various randomly-generated stats in a single map, Unity was NOT built for that and we got it to work but it took a lot of workarounds and custom plug-ins).

That doesn't mean you can't make a wide variety of other types of games, it just means you need to do a little extra work to get them to do what you want when you go outside of the core game styles the engine's developers had in mind. The ones that offer plug-ins really help that process (one of the things that helped Unity become popular, though I personally believe having a free version that had the majority of features available and option to publish without ever paying Unity a dime is the biggest contributor to their initial success).

Of course you are also restricted to what platforms that engine is built for, so that's something else to consider.

I spent a long time working with RAD (rapid application development) tools like Unity and its many predecessors from other companies for my hobbyist game projects, but eventually I grew tired of dealing with crazy workarounds or spending hours debugging a problem only to discover it was an issue with the engine and not my game code. I wanted an engine to do exactly what I wanted to do and nothing more or less, so, after reading an interview with Jonathan Blow (Braid) where he made some good points about the advantages of using straight c++, I decided to just make my own engine (though used an open-source framework as a starting point to get past the hardest stuff quickly - I'm not crazy enough to start from scratch!).

It sucked a lot of time away from actually developing the game, doing tech support for it really sucked as I mentioned earlier, and we're still working on getting it ported to other platforms that would have been available out-of-the-box if we had went with Unity or the like. I often wonder if it was a mistake to do it, but every once in a while I see someone complaining about how their engine of choice is doing something weird and they can't figure out why its doing it or how to get around it, and I'm reminded how I have 100% access to all the code that is running my game and engine so anything that goes wrong I can debug it down to the most basic level myself, or change the engine's functionality to suit the current game's needs at will, and that makes me feel better about doing it the way I did. Plus, hey, a friend of mine got Volgarr working on the Dreamcast - try THAT with Unity :p.

That said, I would not suggest anyone try to roll their own engine unless you are like me and have been programming for years and years (I'd been a hobbyist programmer for over 25 years myself, with 7 of those as an in-industry professional, before I tried using a custom c++ engine).

I couldn't have said this better.
I'm working on my c++ engine too and this are my feelings too.
I'll just add a point to your post regarding engine developing:

It's a lot of fun!!
 

Five

Banned
For the past while I had been working on game aspects that didn't involve running the game itself, ie creating the in game language.


Feels good to be back in the dev environment. Fine tuning/balancing all of the mechanics in MP is interesting.

Something I fear I'm falling in to is the same thing PlayStation All Stars had issues with. In that game they flipped around health, making attacks increase your points instead of decreasing enemy points. It theoretically works just about the same, but in the real world with novice players they only focus on their own points and it stops them from bothering to block.


In VizionEck I'm needing to remember that novice players are essentially selfish. They don't want to die not because it gives the enemy points, but because it hurts their K/D ratio.

That's an interesting analysis of PSASBR, a game which I tried very much to love but could not.

Could you explain why you're using inverse health in your game, or would that rabbit trail into a hundred other systems?
 
What would be the advantages of using something such as say Unity over Game Maker? Is it just easier to code?

What kind of game do you want to make? Because what you want to do will make or break any game engine when it comes to your desires.

Do you want a job in the industry? Make a game with Unity and/or Unreal, it'll get you a job. Most likely.

Do you want to make a game like To The Moon, Ib or Skyborne? RPGMaker has a lot of that infrastructure in place so it'd be more efficient and faster for your to use RPGMaker. However if you want to make a 3D car racing game, Unity or Unreal would make way more sense.

There are always a few people who will absolutely delve into a tool and push it to limits you wouldn't expect like Hotline Miami does with Game Maker. I know RPG Maker has Ruby or some other scripting language behind it and masters of that will do the equivalent of making an elephant do back flips.

Evaluating engines is tricky. It's like you found a rectangular peg to fit into a square hole. You'll have to put in some effort to work around something silly that seems to you like it should be obvious, but all in all you will save time down the line going with the right tool.
 

bkw

Member
I'm using Illustrator and Spine. Jobbs is just using Photoshop. I think Ito and Pehesse are the same, although I could be wrong. The common solutions definitely aren't cheap.
Yeah, I previously used Sketch (on Mac) and Inkscape to build parts, then export them to Spine for animation. It worked ok, but it was quite annoying to have to go back and forth between them. Spine didn't seem to handle replacing parts that well either. I recall having to tweak my origin/registration points all the time if the exported piece changed dimensions. That was a while ago though, and before Spine was split into two versions, so maybe it's better now. I should give it a go again if I decide to go the skeletal animation route.

Yeah, the programs definitely aren't cheap. I do see their value though. They have solid feature sets, and since everyone's using them, there's plenty of support / tutorials / tricks / guides for them. Just not sure if I can take the plunge money wise. It feels very much like the case where newbies like me plop money down on "pro" tools, thinking or hoping that they're better and will help get things done, when we should/could get by with much less.
 

Popstar

Member
But I mean, if the stride was correct, what's making it crash? I thought the explanation from the backstep's detailed post was that the stride was wrong (which turned out not to be the case). Is it potentially the vec2 vs. vec4 type as was mentioned later?
¯\(°_o)/¯
 

Five

Banned
Yeah, I previously used Sketch (on Mac) and Inkscape to build parts, then export them to Spine for animation. It worked ok, but it was quite annoying to have to go back and forth between them. Spine didn't seem to handle replacing parts that well either. I recall having to tweak my origin/registration points all the time if the exported piece changed dimensions. That was a while ago though, and before Spine was split into two versions, so maybe it's better now. I should give it a go again if I decide to go the skeletal animation route.

Yeah, the programs definitely aren't cheap. I do see their value though. They have solid feature sets, and since everyone's using them, there's plenty of support / tutorials / tricks / guides for them. Just not sure if I can take the plunge money wise. It feels very much like the case where newbies like me plop money down on "pro" tools, thinking or hoping that they're better and will help get things done, when we should/could get by with much less.

Right. I hear things about GIMP and Paint.NET all the time, but I've never had the incentive to try them. My dad's been a graphic designer for as long as I can remember, so I was inducted into the Adobe army early.

I actually need to pick one of them up soon though, since I'm currently teaching a computer science/web design class and in three weeks we're going over PhotoShop and its contemporaries.
 

bkw

Member
Right. I hear things about GIMP and Paint.NET all the time, but I've never had the incentive to try them. My dad's been a graphic designer for as long as I can remember, so I was inducted into the Adobe army early.

I actually need to pick one of them up soon though, since I'm currently teaching a computer science/web design class and in three weeks we're going over PhotoShop and its contemporaries.
Check out Krita as well. I'm giving that a shot as a Photoshop alternative for painting and it's decent. Not sure how it hold ups for editing or more graphical tasks though, if it's a web design course.
 
I bought it today after using Prototype for a couple of days. Let me say: ProBuilder is way, way better than Prototype. ProGrids is also a must-have for any ProBuilder editing as well. ProGroups is also pretty handy. I haven't used the other tools yet.

If you've used Source Engine's Hammer editor, you'll feel right at home. The tools are super intuitive and make extremely complex tasks very easy. The performance is surprisingly good as well.


That was good as an evaluation, but when they say basic, they mean it. It's still a great tool for blocking out something quick, but Prototype to ProBuilder is kind of like jumping from basic Unity to Prototype all over again.

I'm pretty good at limiting my Asset Store purchases, but this was a no-brainer. It's easily worth the $150, but at $75 it feels like stealing. I'd also like to mention that I've been watching the bundle since they put it up months ago and this is the first time it's been on sale. If you're even vaguely interested in it, I'd recommend getting it.

I'd highly recommend it for anyone interested in 3D or 2.5D games. It'd probably even work pretty well for 2D as well, but I haven't tried that so I can't say it will.

Oh, geez... Looks like that's more money I'm gonna be owing Dad, the deal is crazy good for a bundle like this. If it really is that good and efficient, I can't really resist.

I really need a job. Preferably a casual job that I can do alongside my uni course. But I wouldn't really know where to start. Good grief.
 

Five

Banned
Check out Krita as well. I'm giving that a shot as a Photoshop alternative for painting and it's decent. Not sure how it hold ups for editing or more graphical tasks though, if it's a web design course.

I'll take a look. Thanks.
 

razu

Member
All this PC testing shows some of the drawbacks this space has, so many configurations and we're not even getting in to Windows/OSX/Linux differences :(

Good luck, I'll give the shader stuff a test later on when I have time. Your results so far sound more confusing than helpful in some ways, maybe you should get people to send you a dxdiag as well so you can compare versions etc?

-

Tim just chucked up another piece on our dev blog explaining the visual design of Infinity Drive if anyone's interested: http://www.assaultandroidcactus.com/2014/09/to-infinity-and-beyond.html

aac_infinity_switch.gif


This was a tricky level/concept to execute but I think it turned out great, using tons of more 'dynamic' elements to give a real sense of progression throughout the infinite gameplay.

So awesomely cool!! :D
 
Best of luck. That is a tough situation to be in.
Thanks. Its a rough spot at the moment but I will just have to change my timeline a bit.

Rough, man. But I need that sweet, sweet wall jumping goodness! Gogogogo!
Ha! You are too kind, Feep. You can expect it but I might need to rearrange which project gets finished first. I can, however, hook you up with a Feep-only playroom where you can wall-stuff to your heart's content to tide you over! Let me know and I'll rig one up one of these days :p

"god" attitude?
Aye. I want all my dudes to take a round table approach to deciding what goes in or out of a game, including me - I might be the leader of the pack but I am certainly not immune to making stupid decisions. I believe the best food for a creative mind is another creative mind, so discussing and sharing ideas is an ethic I like to have. But when that attitude quickly turns into "I'm better than everyone, my way or the highway" that's when I choose highway. A big head like that completely cripples the rest of my team and undermines their ability to have a voice. It doesn't allow for important discussion topics like why or how, it restricts the flow of development and puts a gun to its head, instead.

Dude is a good programmer, for sure. But wanting to work as a lone wolf and holding development hostage because you think you are awesome (he actually said this a few times) is bad juju.
 
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