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[AlphaTwo00]

I like designing more than programming, but I feel like if all you're doing on an indie team is design, you're not pulling your weight. That's more of a self-jab to myself than to any indie designers out there, I'd just feel guilty going design-only. Which sucks, because for me programming is a means to an end.

Yup. Pretty much in any indie capacity, you have to be scaling 4-5+ person to be able to afford having a dedicated designer.

Consensus on a good 2D game engine for iOS? I actually purchased Corona but I've heard that Unity can be used just fine in for 2D games. I've also investigated Cocos2D. Any other suggestions?

I'm on cocos2d, and for me it's been great getting things up and running quickly. Trying to optimize and customize it has been more annoying than expected, but 2.0 is around the block, so we'll see if that helps. The drawback with it will be moving to other platforms (Corona and Unity supports that out of the box).

 

[Ether_Snake]

I want my platformer game to have a tiny hero, the same "size style" as in Knytt Stories...

So what do you guys think of the size of the character compared to the screen size? (placeholder graphics + hero not final)

It's 16x16 character right now in a resolution of 640x480...

Depends on the style of game. Character should be small only if the player actually needs to see that much at once. That's why shoot-em-ups have small ships, while a kick and punch game has big characters.

 

[BlueMagic]

I am on the course of making my own game. My first full featured game, if you will. Think The binding of Isaac but more combat-oriented.

I'm using SFML and C++, going step by step. It gets rough sometimes, and I'm currently thinking on just switching to Unity or something like that, since it is discouraging to know that I'm doing things that Unity provides out of the box, some of which take me some time to implement. Also Unity supports more platforms. The only thing that SFML and C++ give me is deeper knowledge, I believe.

WHAT DO I DO GAF TELL ME

 

[Ranger X]

I like designing more than programming, but I feel like if all you're doing on an indie team is design, you're not pulling your weight. That's more of a self-jab to myself than to any indie designers out there, I'd just feel guilty going design-only. Which sucks, because for me programming is a means to an end.

That's why you should at least try and learn high level languages (scripting languages). It's much simpler than lower level languages like C++ and it still can get some stuff done.
Right now I am myself "as noob as it gets" and much more of an artist than anything else. But I am learning "GML" (game maker language) and I could already reproduce pretty much any NES games you'd like me to reproduce.

Depends on the style of game. Character should be small only if the player actually needs to see that much at once. That's why shoot-em-ups have small ships, while a kick and punch game has big characters.

Later yesterday night I decided to make my character 32x32. It felt better with the view in-game. The view is "SMB3-ish" now in matter of proportions. And while I didn't realise it while coding, my collision code is made so whatever the size of the hero it will work!! I am super happy

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I'm not sure if this is a joke about game developers or not.

They are poking me with needles for 6 weeks for a study on Asperger's. I am using the money they give me to fund my various projects. I am literally going to bleed for my art.

At any rate it's next weekend. http://www.globalgamejam.org You make a game over the weekend in teams.

I'll be the deathly pale, skinny dude strolling along with two IVs in both arms. We can just say I'm a concept art model for a horror game.

 

[jrDev]

I've been looking into some spriting solutions for unity, and I found this plug in.

http://www.ex-dev.com/ex2d/

Anybody know if it's any good? It's cheap enough so I'll probably just buy it and give it a go.

First of all, its the most affordable 2D plugin on the store/to buy for Unity, and this thread says the rest: http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/101811-ex2D-the-best-2D-sprite-solution-for-Unity-RELEASED

I don't have personal experience with it, but I wish it released before I bought Sprite Manager a long time ago. So give it a go, the features sound so robust, its tempting to buy it because it sounds so good and is cheap.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

I am on the course of making my own game. My first full featured game, if you will. Think The binding of Isaac but more combat-oriented.

I'm using SFML and C++, going step by step. It gets rough sometimes, and I'm currently thinking on just switching to Unity or something like that, since it is discouraging to know that I'm doing things that Unity provides out of the box, some of which take me some time to implement. Also Unity supports more platforms. The only thing that SFML and C++ give me is deeper knowledge, I believe.

WHAT DO I DO GAF TELL ME

Do you already know c++ enough that this isn't a huge learning experience? Do you intend to sell the game?

 

[The Technomancer]

I am on the course of making my own game. My first full featured game, if you will. Think The binding of Isaac but more combat-oriented.

I'm using SFML and C++, going step by step. It gets rough sometimes, and I'm currently thinking on just switching to Unity or something like that, since it is discouraging to know that I'm doing things that Unity provides out of the box, some of which take me some time to implement. Also Unity supports more platforms. The only thing that SFML and C++ give me is deeper knowledge, I believe.

WHAT DO I DO GAF TELL ME

I'm in the same boat as you. I haven't found it overly difficult to produce a rudimentary game system so far using C++ and SFML, and so don't feel the need to move to something like Unity since I like what I perceive as the deeper level of control writing everything like this gives me.

 

[Zaptruder]

Finally finished reading this thread.

Very interesting reading about all the development stories and travails.

Also, it looks like the best platform to develop my overly ambitious Dark Souls x Diablo x Minecraft x Lego game is Unity.

 

[Platy]

Also, it looks like the best platform to develop my overly ambitious Dark Souls x Diablo x Minecraft x Lego game is Unity.

You started wrong =P

Spoiler

aka : i hope you are joking about your "overly ambitious" idea

edit :

I like designing more than programming, but I feel like if all you're doing on an indie team is design, you're not pulling your weight. That's more of a self-jab to myself than to any indie designers out there, I'd just feel guilty going design-only. Which sucks, because for me programming is a means to an end.

I feel like that and i do is art and some level design =P

I guess anybody who isn't programing must feel this way xD

 

[Blizzard]

After waking up this morning, I was like, wait I have game ideas! That could be a cool mechanic for a game! Then I got up and started writing things down, and realized the same sort of thing I'd thought of was already done in Starcraft/tournaments. WHY ARE GOOD IDEAS SO HARD.

 

[Phonomezer]

I have some game ideas. One in particular I think would make a lot of money >

 

[The Technomancer]

Oh yeah. This is going to be awesome

 

[Ranger X]

After waking up this morning, I was like, wait I have game ideas! That could be a cool mechanic for a game! Then I got up and started writing things down, and realized the same sort of thing I'd thought of was already done in Starcraft/tournaments. WHY ARE GOOD IDEAS SO HARD.

False. It's easy to have good ideas. It's hard to execute them in compelling and original way.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I have some game ideas. One in particular I think would make a lot of money >

Join the club. There's millions of us.

 

[Blizzard]

False. It's easy to have good ideas. It's hard to execute them in compelling and original way.

Thanks for making me feel better about doing neither. =P

 

[Ranger X]

Thanks for making me feel better about doing neither. =P

lol

*tap on the back*

 

[Vazra]

And my computer has gone crazy. So I cant work on any of my plans but I guess I can still learn programming but I do need my 3D modeling practice and animation and rigging

 

[Platy]

False. It's easy to have good ideas. It's hard to execute them in compelling and original way.

and THAT is why the "if all you're doing on an indie team is not programing, you're not pulling your weight" exists =P

 

[thcsquad]

I feel like that and i do is art and some level design =P

I guess anybody who isn't programing must feel this way xD

That's not true, we programmers love artists because games need tons of art and we usually can't do any of it The perfectly complementary two person indie team is a programmer and an artist, with both doing design. There aren't a lot of people who can do both visual art and programming. Sound/music is close to a necessary third person, but you're more likely to meet an artist or a programmer who is also a musician.

Aspiring designers need to understand that many an aspiring indie programmer or artist is overflowing with design ideas. We just understand that while design is by far the most fun an rewarding thing to do in game development, the other stuff is necessary to execute any project and so we pick something that we're good at to contribute.

 

[Dascu]

I thought of an idea yesterday for a survival-horror co-op game.
Basic premise:
- Two (or more) players get spawned at opposite sides of a randomly-generated map (dark, dilapidated city setting). Each player has a torch and there are one-use flare guns hidden across the map.
- The goal: The two players must find and reach each other. This triggers the opening of an exit somewhere on the map.
- There is a monster prowling around the map, and it is attracted to light (torches, flares). It is invincible and can kill a player in one hit.
- In summary, the players have to find each other, and seeing how the map is dark and randomly generated, you can't just communicate your position through text/voice chat. You have to signal the other player by e.g. getting up high and waving your torch, or by shooting a flare. But, this can attract the attention of the monster. So, then the chased player will have to run away, hide and hopefully the other player can reach him and distract the monster (like by shooting a flare in a different direction).

Not much to it and I have doubts whether it'd be fun and/or scary. Still, there aren't really any multiplayer survival-horror games out there and I thought it'd be a neat idea to have players wandering around a dark map, trying to find each other while avoiding the big bad monster that's also lurking around. It also doesn't seem like a game that would require a lot of programming or assets. Maybe one of you guys can try his/her hand at it (I'm too busy to prototype it myself, but I would offer my help and assistance).

Feel free to formulate your thoughts on how to improve this concept. Or better yet, think up your idea for a multiplayer horror game!

 

[BlueMagic]

Do you already know c++ enough that this isn't a huge learning experience? Do you intend to sell the game?

It definitely stopped being a huge learning experience for C++ since I have pretty much nailed the basics. With this I can already manage to do pretty much everything if I can get the logic right. I wouldn't mind learning more about graphic programming, and this is also giving me the chance to learn that. However I'm also always learning little details that I'd bet even books wouldn't tell me.

As for selling the game... Well, when I get to the point of having something solid I'm gonna try and get an artist to make the sprites and such (2D game btw) and we'll see about selling. I'm definitely hoping to.

 

[jrDev]

Also, it looks like the best platform to develop my overly ambitious Dark Souls x Diablo x Minecraft x Lego game is Unity.

This is not the best way to go, I speak from experience. If you saw the Design Document of my current project before it became nice, compact and 'doable' I would've looked like a crazy person. (for a one man project). This is the farthest I have ever gotten in any project I have done (this is in part also to the support I am getting from GF - she's a personal tester :-D). Though, there is nothing wrong with thinking big, just be realistic and expect not to finish that big idea until its compact (or expect to spend years refining it)

As I said, I am 20 months (it would've been less if it wasn't for day job/family stuff) in with this project, and I still have quite a number of things I want done before release, though I'm shooting to finish this year.
*end wall of text*

 

[AcceptableGhost]

As for selling the game... Well, when I get to the point of having something solid I'm gonna try and get an artist to make the sprites and such (2D game btw) and we'll see about selling. I'm definitely hoping to.

If you think your game is big enough / quality enough for Steam consideration (and other PC DD) than C++ and SFML would be a fine route (and you can do easy mac/linux ports too with SFML). If you want to hit specifically hit other platforms than you may want to reconsider. That said, going from C++ / SFML to another language / framework is not really that hard (I did a C#/XNA -> C++/SFML port in relatively short order). I am waiting on SFML 2.0 stable before I touch up that port and put it out as PC freeware or something.

 

[thcsquad]

If you think your game is big enough / quality enough for Steam consideration (and other PC DD) than C++ and SFML would be a fine route (and you can do easy mac/linux ports too with SFML). If you want to hit specifically hit other platforms than you may want to reconsider. That said, going from C++ / SFML to another language / framework is not really that hard (I did a C#/XNA -> C++/SFML port in relatively short order). I am waiting on SFML 2.0 stable before I touch up that port and put it out as PC freeware or something.

Wow, how have I never heard of SFML before? I have a project in SDL because I wanted to be able to easily target Win/Mac/Linux, and develop from Linux. I've gone over a lot of hurdles due to SDL's barebones structure. SFML looks like everything I like about SDL minus everything I don't like about SDL. I wish I had known about it earlier.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Wow, how have I never heard of SFML before? I have a project in SDL because I wanted to be able to easily target Win/Mac/Linux, and develop from Linux. I've gone over a lot of hurdles due to SDL's barebones structure. SFML looks like everything I like about SDL minus everything I don't like about SDL. I wish I had known about it earlier.

If you want to make a 2D game in C++ I recommend SFML highly. It has everything I want out of a framework pretty much.

 

[The Technomancer]

Arghhhh! Absolutely nothing frustrates quite like a completely unhelpful compiler error.

 

[beril]

Made another short fraps video of my game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kKxXBYB-VY. this is the first boss in the game. He has a pretty simple behaviour but is still pretty hard to defeat. I'm planning to have four bosses in total and 12 or 16 levels depending on how weary I am of the game once I'm nearing the finnish line. So far it's going pretty well but I'm kind of worried I'm starting to rush the development a bit too much.

Btw does anyone have experience dealing with Steam? I'm considering if it might be worth releasing a PC version as well and try getting it on there. How selective are they of indie games and how hard is it to get through their testing?

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Btw does anyone have experience dealing with Steam? I'm considering if it might be worth releasing a PC version as well and try getting it on there. How selective are they of indie games and how hard is it to get through their testing?

From what I have heard, basically just send them the form and pray.

 

[Somnid]

Arghhhh! Absolutely nothing frustrates quite like a completely unhelpful compiler error.

You're telling me. The webkit javascript debugger in Chrome's injected javascript keeps throwing an error in my game which breaks the inspector and makes it behave slightly differently when using the debugger. Pretty much flying blind here, I have to switch over to Firebug to do actual debugging.

 

[desu]

Made another short fraps video of my game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kKxXBYB-VY. this is the first boss in the game. He has a pretty simple behaviour but is still pretty hard to defeat. I'm planning to have four bosses in total and 12 or 16 levels depending on how weary I am of the game once I'm nearing the finnish line. So far it's going pretty well but I'm kind of worried I'm starting to rush the development a bit too much.

Looks really awesome, for some reason I got a total Turrican (first boss) vibe .

 

[Blizzard]

I thought of an idea yesterday for a survival-horror co-op game.
Basic premise:
- Two (or more) players get spawned at opposite sides of a randomly-generated map (dark, dilapidated city setting). Each player has a torch and there are one-use flare guns hidden across the map.
- The goal: The two players must find and reach each other. This triggers the opening of an exit somewhere on the map.
- There is a monster prowling around the map, and it is attracted to light (torches, flares). It is invincible and can kill a player in one hit.
- In summary, the players have to find each other, and seeing how the map is dark and randomly generated, you can't just communicate your position through text/voice chat. You have to signal the other player by e.g. getting up high and waving your torch, or by shooting a flare. But, this can attract the attention of the monster. So, then the chased player will have to run away, hide and hopefully the other player can reach him and distract the monster (like by shooting a flare in a different direction).

Not much to it and I have doubts whether it'd be fun and/or scary. Still, there aren't really any multiplayer survival-horror games out there and I thought it'd be a neat idea to have players wandering around a dark map, trying to find each other while avoiding the big bad monster that's also lurking around. It also doesn't seem like a game that would require a lot of programming or assets. Maybe one of you guys can try his/her hand at it (I'm too busy to prototype it myself, but I would offer my help and assistance).

Feel free to formulate your thoughts on how to improve this concept. Or better yet, think up your idea for a multiplayer horror game!

This should be great practice to do in the UDK, and could probably literally be done in a weekend if everything is kept minimal, and the person is pretty familiar with the UDK. If no one else does it before the game jam I might try prototyping something. Or I guess Unity could do it too. >_>

I think the hardest parts would be:

* Procedural level generation (though I'm pretty sure I've seen it done in the UDK), since that will screw up any nice static lighting you might otherwise have. Now, if the game is dark, quality of lighting might not be as important, but you might want shadows, and then you might wrap yourself around the axle for days trying to get dynamic shadows working nicely in the UDK (rawr hulk smash).

* Boss AI. You can try to use the built-in pathing stuff which may or may not be documented well, and if the map is all on one level with no climbing it might work, but otherwise I really don't know if there's much possibility for sophisticated AI in the UDK. I wanted to experiment with it but I never got anywhere. I don't know that I ever even got basic enemy move/point/shoot AI working very well.

 

[Feep]

That's not true, we programmers love artists because games need tons of art and we usually can't do any of it The perfectly complementary two person indie team is a programmer and an artist, with both doing design. There aren't a lot of people who can do both visual art and programming. Sound/music is close to a necessary third person, but you're more likely to meet an artist or a programmer who is also a musician.

Aspiring designers need to understand that many an aspiring indie programmer or artist is overflowing with design ideas. We just understand that while design is by far the most fun an rewarding thing to do in game development, the other stuff is necessary to execute any project and so we pick something that we're good at to contribute.

I agree with this, but I was too selfish to share the duty of design with anyone else. I contracted and paid my artists and musicians, and I sat alone, deep into the night, with nothing but my ideas and code to keep me company. = D

 

[BlueMagic]

Made another short fraps video of my game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kKxXBYB-VY. this is the first boss in the game. He has a pretty simple behaviour but is still pretty hard to defeat. I'm planning to have four bosses in total and 12 or 16 levels depending on how weary I am of the game once I'm nearing the finnish line. So far it's going pretty well but I'm kind of worried I'm starting to rush the development a bit too much.

Btw does anyone have experience dealing with Steam? I'm considering if it might be worth releasing a PC version as well and try getting it on there. How selective are they of indie games and how hard is it to get through their testing?

I heard they are not very keen on Game Maker games. Even though that should change with the new GM (which I'm not sure if it's out already).
That said, I don't even know if your game is being done in GM but I think I remember you mentioning that.

EDIT: Yeah, never mind everything I said, it seems that you are not making it with GM lol

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I agree with this, but I was too selfish to share the duty of design with anyone else. I contracted and paid my artists and musicians, and I sat alone, deep into the night, with nothing but my ideas and code to keep me company. = D

Thus, you became Gollum.

This is partly one of the many reasons my teams first project fell apart. Besides having trouble articulating our ideas into the GDD (which led to writing it as we went along), it was not a very inclusive process.

 

[Dark Octave]

Thus, you became Gollum.

This is partly one of the many reasons my teams first project fell apart. Besides having trouble articulating our ideas into the GDD (which led to writing it as we went along), it was not a very inclusive process.

They weren't being paid I'm sure. You had to have had a royalties deal with them, otherwise it would have never fell apart.

Been there a thousand times.

Edit: The other reason was lack of direction for the project, I betcha.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

They weren't being paid I'm sure. You had to have had a royalties deal with them, otherwise it would have never fell apart.

Been there a thousand times.

Edit: The other reason was lack of direction for the project, I betcha.

Nailed it.

But the project never lacked direction except for the obviously already stated. We were actually pretty far into early development as far as art, music, sound, and code.

 

[Feep]

Yeah, I paid my artists a flat fee. To them it was a job. To me it was a gamble.

 

[thcsquad]

If you want to make a 2D game in C++ I recommend SFML highly. It has everything I want out of a framework pretty much.

I'll definitely look at it. I'm at the point where I've already found a lot of ways to deal with SDL hurdles, but I know there'll be more as I go along. I'm not sure how long it'll take to convert from SDL to SFML, but I imagine it'll be worth it.

From the looks of it, the library works well in KDevelop using CMake, which is exactly how I'm developing the SDL version at present. Good to know.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Made another short fraps video of my game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kKxXBYB-VY. this is the first boss in the game. He has a pretty simple behaviour but is still pretty hard to defeat. I'm planning to have four bosses in total and 12 or 16 levels depending on how weary I am of the game once I'm nearing the finnish line. So far it's going pretty well but I'm kind of worried I'm starting to rush the development a bit too much.

I am in love with this game.

 

[BlueMagic]

I'll definitely look at it. I'm at the point where I've already found a lot of ways to deal with SDL hurdles, but I know there'll be more as I go along. I'm not sure how long it'll take to convert from SDL to SFML, but I imagine it'll be worth it.

From the looks of it, the library works well in KDevelop using CMake, which is exactly how I'm developing the SDL version at present. Good to know.

As someone who went from SDL to SFML, I also recommend the change. I'm not familiar with the later versions of SDL (from what I knew 1.3 was going to be quite awesome), but SFML feels like it provides a more robust framework. Also it feels simpler but still more powerful.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Yeah, I paid my artists a flat fee. To them it was a job. To me it was a gamble.

Paying people is tough. Most of them were working on the hopes of profit. But, honestly, we were very disorganized as far as official roles and stuff back then.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Yeah, I paid my artists a flat fee. To them it was a job. To me it was a gamble.

Eventually, when I have enough money and my "big" game idea is fleshed out, that's what I'm going to do. But for the programmer and musician too. I'll aid in programming, but mostly I'll just coordinate things between team members and work as hard as possible marketing the game.

What did you charge? How much work did they do? Where did you find them?

 

[desu]

Uhm I saw people talking about modeling. Is there an existing gaf thread just like this one just more focused on modeling/sculpturing, to show of your work and possibly get help and learn stuff?

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Uhm I saw people talking about modeling. Is there an existing gaf thread just like this one just more focused on modeling/sculpturing, to show of your work and possibly get help and learn stuff?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406017

...but it died.

 

[Feep]

Eventually, when I have enough money and my "big" game idea is fleshed out, that's what I'm going to do. But for the programmer and musician too. I'll aid in programming, but mostly I'll just coordinate things between team members and work as hard as possible marketing the game.

What did you charge? How much work did they do? Where did you find them?

I spent around $3,500 all told, but I got lucky...one of the musicians didn't even ask for payment (though I sent him a bonus recently), and a lot of actors in Hollywood will work for free, in hopes of getting their name out there.

Artist - DeviantArt (have fun sifting through hundreds of submissions of crap, though)
Musicians - YouTube
Voice Actors - friends, casting calls on Actors Access / LA Casting

The musicians did minimal work (a few alterations of existing songs)...I licensed existing works that I thought would fit the game well. The artist drew fourteen 1280x720 backgrounds and 12 character sprites (with a few facial alternates)...she also did coloring work on monster designs and a bit of UI stuff, as well.

 

[BlueMagic]

That's pretty impressive Feep, not everyone can manage a project in that way and end up with a successful product, congrats.

Also, sorry for the offtopic, but to the programmers in this thread: What music do you program to? I love instrumental music like Emancipator (I sometimes find that music with lyrics gets in the way) but I would love some recommendations lol.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I spent around $3,500 all told

Makes the $500 I spent on Zuda seem like child's play.

 

[Feep]

The operating budget for the game was closer to $5,000...had to pay for very random things, like two fonts, a new microphone, some sound effects off the internet, XNA Creator's Club access, the use of a particle engine in a commercial project, et cetera. And I spent like $500 on a launch party, but I guess that doesn't count, right? = D

I jam to instrumental music as well...a lot of jazz, world music (India, Japan, Celtic, etc.)...

 

[Blizzard]

I'm a big fan of instrumental (and also Celtic) music. I think I've spent some late nights coding while listening to pretty much the entire Lord of the Dance performance for instance.