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Intel X299 platform first wave reviews - i7 7740X/7800X/7820X and i9 7900X

R

Renekton

Member
Unknown Soldier said:
I have a single 1080 Ti and 5820K and I can pull 550W from the wall easy NBD. Any 550W PSU would be running at 100% trying to power my machine and you don't really want PSUs running continuously at max capacity. Actually since PSUs are not 100% efficient I think it's very likely a 550W PSU would probably trigger it's overvoltage protection and shut down trying to power my machine.
Click to expand...
Woops now feeling insecure about my 650W.
 
ISee

ISee

Member
Renekton said:
Woops now feeling insecure about my 650W.
Click to expand...

Seriously?
A 1080Ti/5820k setup is one of the more power hungry combos out there. And yes PSU are never 100% efficient but even for that setup a good 550W bronze PSU is probably enough for normal gaming scenarios (when you aren't pushing everything to the max, all the time). A 650W PSU is safe and certainly more than good enough.
 
R

Renekton

Member
ISee said:
Seriously?
A 1080Ti/5820k setup is one of the more power hungry combos out there. And yes PSU are never 100% efficient but even for that setup a good 550W bronze PSU is probably enough for normal gaming scenarios (when you aren't pushing everything to the max, all the time). A 650W PSU is safe and certainly more than good enough.
Click to expand...
We'll see ��

The 7820X I'm eyeing looks like power draw monster.

AcG28C7.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Z

Zojirushi

Member
Unknown Soldier said:
I have a single 1080 Ti and 5820K and I can pull 550W from the wall easy NBD. Any 550W PSU would be running at 100% trying to power my machine and you don't really want PSUs running continuously at max capacity. Actually since PSUs are not 100% efficient I think it's very likely a 550W PSU would probably trigger it's overvoltage protection and shut down trying to power my machine.
Click to expand...

What part of your system is a lot more power hungry than mine: 980Ti Xtreme and 3570k@4,2 GHz?

Because I can run that on a 480W no problem, not even speaking of the five internal HDDs on top of that.
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
Zojirushi said:
What part of your system is a lot more power hungry than mine: 980Ti Xtreme and 3570k@4,2 GHz?

Because I can run that on a 480W no problem, not even speaking of the five internal HDDs on top of that.
Click to expand...

I have a Kill-a-Watt and that's what it says when I'm in game in FFXIV. 5820K @ 4.3 and Aorus 1080 Ti Extreme with the core voltage and power limit sliders maxed out. Also 1 normal hard drive and 4 SSDs.
 
L

Lost Culture

Neo Member
Unknown Soldier said:
Yes, I game exclusively in 4K. I always strive to reach 60 fps but sometimes I will fall short in certain games *cough* Deus Ex: Mankind Divided *cough* The Witcher 3 *cough*
Click to expand...

Nice, I was mainly asking about FFxiv. Going for a setup that can stay above 60 at all times. I have a 1080ti + 7700k combo. Stormblood on max 4k settings the highest I've seen is 75 fps. While the lowest being 55.
 
R

Renekton

Member
spootime said:
If theyre gonna be around the same speed I'd rather not wait 3-4 months.
Click to expand...
If 6-core Coffee Lake still uses ringbus while 7800X uses mesh, the former might have latency advantages when it comes to gaming. At least based on early reviews of Skylake-X so far.

QyLSiIk.png
 
S

Serious Sam

Member
Zojirushi said:
What part of your system is a lot more power hungry than mine: 980Ti Xtreme and 3570k@4,2 GHz?

Because I can run that on a 480W no problem, not even speaking of the five internal HDDs on top of that.
Click to expand...

His 5820K CPU with 140W TDP is a lot more power hungry than your CPU at measly 77W TDP.
 
spootime

spootime

Member
Renekton said:
If 6-core Coffee Lake still uses ringbus while 7800X uses mesh, the former might have latency advantages when it comes to gaming. At least based on early reviews of Skylake-X so far.

QyLSiIk.png
Click to expand...

God damnit. This shits too confusing man. Well thanks for the link, I'll have to wait and see what the benchmarks look like. I'd be very happy if it was close to the 7700k when overclocked.
 
Karak

Karak

Member
So if I am running my 5829k at 4.6 and have a 1080. Is there a big difference here on these when it comes to gaming? I haven't jumped in just yet to the reviews.
 
T

Tommy DJ

Member
Karak said:
So if I am running my 5829k at 4.6 and have a 1080. Is there a big difference here on these when it comes to gaming? I haven't jumped in just yet to the reviews.
Click to expand...

Absolutely not. Unless you want 16+ threads with high single threaded performance for a relatively affordable price, there's absolutely no reason to upgrade.
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
Karak said:
So if I am running my 5829k at 4.6 and have a 1080. Is there a big difference here on these when it comes to gaming? I haven't jumped in just yet to the reviews.
Click to expand...

You may notice some minor difference in 1080p in some games. But otherwise, if you want overall better gaming performance, upgrading to a 1080Ti would be a better investment,
 
·

·feist·

Member
The X299 VRM Disaster (en) [der8auer]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7BqAjC4ZCc


Intel X299 Platform Called a "VRM Disaster" by Overclocker der8auer
https://www.techpowerup.com/234744/intel-x299-platform-called-a-vrm-disaster-by-overclocker-der8auer


Skylake-X Binning [Silicon Lottery]
http://www.overclock.net/t/1631319/skylake-x-binning/150_30#post_26189935


It would seem Intel's X299 platform is already having some teething issues, with user "der8auer" of overclocking fame claiming the platform is essentially a complete "VRM disaster." In the video in which these claims are made, he levies the blame to both Intel and the motherboard manufacturers "50/50." For Intel's part, he blames them for the short product launch which was pulled in from August to June, giving the motherboard manufacturers in der8auer's words "almost zero time for developing proper products."

In the video, der8auer elaborates to basically claim a completely lack of consistency among the quality of VRMs and their heatsinks in various manufacturers. In his first test, he takes a CPU that is known to do 5.0 GHz and on a Gigabyte Aorus branded mainboard found himself unable to even hit 4.6 GHz with dangerously high VRM temperatures. He goes on to blame the heatsinks on the VRMs, going so far to call the Gigabyte solution more of a "heat insulation" device than a cooler, as a simple small fan over the bare VRM array did many magnitudes better than a simple standard install with the stock VRM cooler attached. After an MSI-branded board did similar, it became clear this was not an isolated issue.
Click to expand...
der8auer also went on to criticize the lack of voltage input in the form of many boards having only a "single 8-pin connector" which der8auer claims is not nearly enough. He claims a cable temperature of nearly 65 degrees Celsius on the 8-pin EPS cable which is obviously disconcerting, though TechPowerUp has been in discussions with renowned PSU-tester Jon Gerow (Jonnyguru) who feels the "all-in-one" cable design on the Super Flower PSU shown in the video may be partially to blame here for the heat level with that current draw. It's hard to tell which part is more at fault for that temperature and we will update that as we know more. Until then, here's is Jon Gerow's direct comment on the matter:
Click to expand...
The frustrations expressed here have also been shared by Overclock.net user "Silicon Lottery," who sells prebinned overclockable CPUs to the general public. His statements on the matter mirror user der8auer's concerns, stating the following in a forum post at Overclock.net:

"I am having trouble with some of these X299 motherboards. I've bought a wide variety for this launch, and none of them are really handling the load of an overclocked 7900X as well as I'd expect. VRM temps through the roof and boards throttling."

One thing is for certain: The VRM situation is far from consistent at this point in time, and overclocking results on one board may not be consistent to another. Heatsinks may be inadequate, and as far as overclocking is concerned, it may get interesting folks, and not in a good way. In the end der8auer concluded he couldn't really give a solid recommendation to any of the launch boards put past his desk, all of them having one issue or another with VRM heat at some point.
Click to expand...

maxresdefault6ds1x.jpg
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dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
Renekton said:
Z8UmdJO.jpg


Looks sketchy for gamers so far 😐

Edit:
PCGH.de also found Skylake-X underperforms Broadwell-E by 4% for equal core, clock and memory
Click to expand...

SKL trials HWL/BWL in mainstream socket as well but makes this up with higher stock clocks so this isn't especially surprising.
 
R

Renekton

Member
dr_rus said:
SKL trials HWL/BWL in mainstream socket as well but makes this up with higher stock clocks so this isn't especially surprising.
Click to expand...
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/774429-Sandy-Ivy-Haswell-Broadwell-Skylake-IPC At least for the same hardware site, they have reported IPC gains going from Sandy to Skylake. Broadwell an anomaly likely from the Crystal Well L4 cache.

I'm guessing SKL-X being a gaming downgrade from BW-E suggests games don't really like the trade-off of smaller L3 for larger L2.
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
Renekton said:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/774429-Sandy-Ivy-Haswell-Broadwell-Skylake-IPC At least for the same hardware site, they have reported IPC gains going from Sandy to Skylake. Broadwell an anomaly likely from the Crystal Well L4 cache.

I'm guessing SKL-X being a gaming downgrade from BW-E suggests games don't really like the trade-off of smaller L3 for larger L2.
Click to expand...

SKL's launch was pretty weak gaming wise:

76355.png
76319.png
76325.png


Situation improved with updates to BIOSes and faster RAM being available. I have little doubt that the same will happen with SKX too.
 
D

digitalrelic

Banned
So far there's been no news that's deterred me from Skylake-X. Definitely a clusterfuck of a launch, but I'm still very confident in picking up a 7820X in a couple months. It really all depends on whether we see Coffee Lake in August or next year.
 
P

Paragon

Member
dr_rus said:
SKL's launch was pretty weak gaming wise:
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph9483/76355.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph9483/76319.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph9483/76325.png

Situation improved with updates to BIOSes and faster RAM being available. I have little doubt that the same will happen with SKX too.
Click to expand...
First of all, Anandtech's gaming benchmarks are beyond worthless.
Secondly, the 5775C does well in gaming benchmarks due to the large L4 cache.
When you pair a Skylake CPU with fast RAM - I think somewhere around 4000MT/s DDR4 - it is actually lower latency than the 5775C's eDRAM.

I'm not sure why, but a lot of sites don't seem to bother about RAM speed.
I'm still seeing tests done for Ryzen and X299 CPUs using DDR4-2400 or slower when the platforms officially support 2666MT/s RAM, and higher speeds when overclocked.
 
D

digitalrelic

Banned
Paragon said:
First of all, Anandtech's gaming benchmarks are beyond worthless.
Secondly, the 5775C does well in gaming benchmarks due to the large L4 cache.
When you pair a Skylake CPU with fast RAM - I think somewhere around 4000MT/s DDR4 - it is actually lower latency than the 5775C's eDRAM.

I'm not sure why, but a lot of sites don't seem to bother about RAM speed.
I'm still seeing tests done for Ryzen and X299 CPUs using DDR4-2400 or slower when the platforms officially support 2666MT/s RAM, and higher speeds when overclocked.
Click to expand...

Can you explain how MT/s relates to Mhz when talking RAM? I'm not well versed on this aspect.
 
P

Paragon

Member
digitalrelic said:
Can you explain how MT/s relates to Mhz when talking RAM? I'm not well versed on this aspect.
Click to expand...
DDR memory is "double data-rate".
The transfer rate is double the clockspeed.
So DDR4-2666 is running at a 1333MHz clockspeed for 2666 megatransfers/second, not 2666MHz.
And when people were saying that Ryzen's Infinity Fabric was running at "half the memory clockspeed" they were mistaken - it is running at the memory's clockspeed, since the clockspeed is half the transfer rate.
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
Paragon said:
First of all, Anandtech's gaming benchmarks are beyond worthless.
Secondly, the 5775C does well in gaming benchmarks due to the large L4 cache.
When you pair a Skylake CPU with fast RAM - I think somewhere around 4000MT/s DDR4 - it is actually lower latency than the 5775C's eDRAM.

I'm not sure why, but a lot of sites don't seem to bother about RAM speed.
I'm still seeing tests done for Ryzen and X299 CPUs using DDR4-2400 or slower when the platforms officially support 2666MT/s RAM, and higher speeds when overclocked.
Click to expand...

SKLs showed the same results in any site's benchmarks during launch. And I don't agree that Anandtech's CPU benchmarks are worthless as they are in fact show what a typical gaming use case look like.
 
F

Frankfurter

Member
Unknown Soldier said:
I have a single 1080 Ti and 5820K and I can pull 550W from the wall easy NBD. Any 550W PSU would be running at 100% trying to power my machine and you don't really want PSUs running continuously at max capacity. Actually since PSUs are not 100% efficient I think it's very likely a 550W PSU would probably trigger it's overvoltage protection and shut down trying to power my machine.
Click to expand...


Just btw. that's not true. A PSU rated at 550W means it can (well, unless it's shitty) deliver 550W to your components. Depending on its efficiency, it can draw way more from the wall and still work perfectly fine within it's official limits.
 
D

Dr.Acula

Banned
Seems like the new Intels are half-baked. I was hoping I could build a gaming PC on this next gen this summer, but it looks like I'm waiting for all the kinks to get worked out :(

I have half a mind to go PS4, but I'm waiting for the XBOneX to force the price-drop.
 
P

Paragon

Member
Dr.Acula said:
Seems like the new Intels are half-baked. I was hoping I could build a gaming PC on this next gen this summer, but it looks like I'm waiting for all the kinks to get worked out :(
I have half a mind to go PS4, but I'm waiting for the XBOneX to force the price-drop.
Click to expand...
I'll never understand comments like these.
You were prepared to spend $650+ for the CPU and motherboard alone, and now you'll suddenly buy a PS4 instead?

I can understand that due to X299 being rushed out and having a messy launch you might want to wait and see how things turn out, or choose to buy X99 / Z270 / Ryzen if you really need a system right now.
But I don't see how a rushed platform launch leads to buying a PS4 instead.
Even when they aren't rushed, it's generally best to wait a month or two for things to settle before buying if you have the option.
 
MegaMelon

MegaMelon

Member
Paragon said:
I'll never understand comments like these.
You were prepared to spend $650+ for the CPU and motherboard alone, and now you'll suddenly buy a PS4 instead?

I can understand that due to X299 being rushed out and having a messy launch you might want to wait and see how things turn out, or choose to buy X99 / Z270 / Ryzen if you really need a system right now.
But I don't see how a rushed platform launch leads to buying a PS4 instead.
Even when they aren't rushed, it's generally best to wait a month or two for things to settle before buying if you have the option.
Click to expand...

I think maybe they meant they want to get a PS4 Pro but will wait for the XboneX to force a price drop first.
 
D

Dr.Acula

Banned
Paragon said:
I'll never understand comments like these.
You were prepared to spend $650+ for the CPU and motherboard alone, and now you'll suddenly buy a PS4 instead?

I can understand that due to X299 being rushed out and having a messy launch you might want to wait and see how things turn out, or choose to buy X99 / Z270 / Ryzen if you really need a system right now.
But I don't see how a rushed platform launch leads to buying a PS4 instead.
Even when they aren't rushed, it's generally best to wait a month or two for things to settle before buying if you have the option.
Click to expand...

It's more me thinking, do I build a new PC this year and maybe get a PS4 to play all the exclusives I've missed sometime next year, or PS4 this year and PC next year? I have a PS3, and there are a bunch of franchises that I've been wanting to get on.

edit: specifically, I want to upgrade *now* but the PS4 will come down / get bundles soon, and better mobos are certainly coming soon.
 
S

Steel

Banned
Dr.Acula said:
Seems like the new Intels are half-baked. I was hoping I could build a gaming PC on this next gen this summer, but it looks like I'm waiting for all the kinks to get worked out :(

I have half a mind to go PS4, but I'm waiting for the XBOneX to force the price-drop.
Click to expand...

If you're looking to build a PC purely for gaming, these CPUs shouldn't even be on your radar. Look to the 7700k, ryzen 1700, 1600, or, on the cheap end, a 1500x. Those will get you the best gaming performance.
 
D

Dr.Acula

Banned
Steel said:
If you're looking to build a PC purely for gaming, these CPUs shouldn't even be on your radar. Look to the 7700k, ryzen 1700, 1600, or, on the cheap end, a 1500x. Those will get you the best gaming performance.
Click to expand...

I'm want to get on the new gen, I've skipped LGA1151 so far, so buying it now seems like a waste.
 
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