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[jett]

You guys really need to learn your place and show some respect to your elders. Tim Langdell is the man behind Classix 1, Monsters, Racers and Classix 1 (Ger).

I don't know if you're serious but I don't really care about what games he made a gazillion years ago. This is the fate Langdell deserves:

 

[nfreakct]

This dispute is reaching the inevitable point where both parties look like douchebags.

Langdell has been admonished in court for being deliberately obtuse or misleading. He's been well-known at the very least to stretch the truth to uncomfortable levels. I wouldn't trust his "take" on things at the very least.

 

[Campster]

Langdell has been admonished in court for being deliberately obtuse or misleading. He's been well-known at the very least to stretch the truth to uncomfortable levels. I wouldn't trust his "take" on things at the very least.

What's not to trust? It's not like there's evidence he may have falsified evidence in his legal pursuits to imply his trademark was more influential than it really was.

Oh, wait.

 

[chubigans]

Again, at this point it's apparent that Langdell has not an ounce of humility and continues to warp reality to fit his goals. Whether it's psychosis or self-interest no man can say, but it's clear that no rational debate or meaningful dialogue will arise from this. Despite a public record of needless IP protection and the insistence that he has oh-so-graciously lent out the word "Edge" to games, computer companies, magazines, and, yes, even a 1997 movie starring Alec Baldwin and Anthony Hopkins, he has decided to play the pity card and insist he is truly "more indie" because many of the 756 games (partial list!) he credits himself with are released on platforms that have smaller market share than the iPhone. Boo fucking hoo.

His "public statement" consists tearing down of a series of strawman arguments and dodging serious questions posed against the conflict of interests of a man who sues game companies and a boardmember of the IDGA as well as the nature of his IP enforcement. Unless he can present objective quantitative proof that Mobigame are really the bad guys here, this is a waste of everyone's time.

Look at it this way. Here's what we know about Langdell: There are developers who have publicly spoken out about their experience in working with Langell and their difficulty in getting paid, there are the very obvious attempts to lay claim to the word "Edge" across all media, and there's the inherent conflict of interest present in being a guy who likes to litigate game companies and being a lead figure in the IGDA, he has had restraining orders put up against him by young actresses, and he clearly has some delusions of grandure if he honestly believes Mobigame's Edge is clearly inspired by Bobby Bearing or that he can seriously put his name on 700+ game titles on his own website.

Here's what we've learned about Mobigame: They put up a game on the iTunes app store only to have it taken down when they found out they didn't get to the name first.

Who, exactly, are we to believe here? David Papazian could well be a complete twat, but we have no serious knowledge of that. Langdell's cockfuckery, however, is a matter of public record.

Indeed. I don't think this'll be the last we'll hear of all this though.

 

[mattiewheels]

i think my internet-rage just hit tipping point when i visited this guy's "page" and saw this. OH, so the classic film you had NOTHING TO DO WITH is YOURS!?!?! yeah, this guy is scum. all i could hope is that the mobi guys take him to court and he gets laughed out of it, but unfortunately that would cost them dearly as far as legal fees go.

is there any way we could find his address and just make our own justice?

 

[semiregular]

i think my internet-rage just hit tipping point when i visited this guy's "page" and saw this. OH, so the classic film you had NOTHING TO DO WITH is YOURS!?!?!

Wait a minute, I thought his trademark was only limited to videogames? Why did Fox need his licensing for a movie?

So he's really going to go after U2 for a licensing fee now?

 

[Open Source]

What a black eye for the IGDA. How in the world could someone who is both vile and, from a game industry perspective, useless, be elected to their board? I can't imagine many people will be sending in their $50 after this.

 

[MMaRsu]

This guy is a fucking douchebag and a piece of lowlife scum.

 

[JonathanEx]

---- Original Message -----
From: Edge Corp
To: David Papazian
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Settlement between parties - 7/28

WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS

Mr Papazian,

Since you have sought to turn the dispute between our two companies into a personal attack on Dr. Langdell, he will no longer be the person communicating with you on this matter on behalf of Edge

In early June we sent you a settlement proposal involving your changing the name of your game to EDGY which would have you paying no money to us at all. Under that proposal Mobigame would take ownership of the EDGY trademark application, and there would be no license from Edge to Mobigame. You would own the EDGY trademark entirely.

We did not receive a reply to that proposal and inquire again what your response to it is. We remain keen to find a settlement both parties can agree upon so that your game can once again go up on the US, UK and German iTunes stores.

We reserve all or rights in this matter, and note this communication is sent under banner of "without prejudice" which means it cannot be used in any legal proceeding and should not be revealed to any third party, the press, or etc. The fact it is "save as to costs" means that should this matter ever go to court, and we trust it will not need to, then you will be liable to pay our legal costs if the basis on which we finally settle or the court's order is the same or less favorable to you than the settlement offer made to you.

Sincerely,

Edge Games, Inc.

hrm

 

[McBradders]

Hahah "You can't use this in court so when you change it to Edgy we can sue you again. THIS EMAIL DOES NOT EXIST!".


Magical.

 

[Kunan]

hrm

Does he really expect people to believe that that isn't still him emailing?? :lol

Hahah "You can't use this in court so when you change it to Edgy we can sue you again. THIS EMAIL DOES NOT EXIST!".


Magical.

Pretty much. The guy is grade A scum. It's strange cause if they could actually enforce that, then they could just extort and black mail mobigames all they want without it being used in court, which hardly sounds legal nor that it would stand in court. Sounds like they're trying to force a settlement, and if they don't get it they are going to use tons of stall tactics and try and get all of the communication stricken from the record to, yet again, force a settlement.

 

[Iknos]

This guy is a fucking douchebag and a piece of lowlife scum.

Funny because I checked his Facebook profile and I saw his friends list which he left public and I see lots of big name well respected industry names there.

I know that for some facebook "friends" means little but it was something that surprised me considering all this recent news. People in the industry are still fine with associating with him. Maybe to learn a lesson he needs to be ostracized by others in the industry to show him that his actions harmful to this industry.

 

[wolfmat]

You know, I wouldn't judge so fast.

The tigsource crowd isn't exactly easy to handle, and in this particular case, there's a certain amount of mob mentality involved. Everybody who's downloaded Cave Story has an opinion about this without really knowing what's going on, I feel.

Additionally, there's quite some frustration under the hood concerning the IGDA and stuff playing into this.

Tim Langdell doesn't appear to be a particularly nice guy, obviously, but to be frank, what I've read so far about his evil-doing is on the level of hearsay.

My recommendation is that if you're not involved, don't be so fast with the judging.

 

[evilromero]

What's not to trust? It's not like there's evidence he may have falsified evidence in his legal pursuits to imply his trademark was more influential than it really was.

Oh, wait.

Is this real?

 

[ShinNL]

You know, I wouldn't judge so fast.

The tigsource crowd isn't exactly easy to handle, and in this particular case, there's a certain amount of mob mentality involved. Everybody who's downloaded Cave Story has an opinion about this without really knowing what's going on, I feel.

Additionally, there's quite some frustration under the hood concerning the IGDA and stuff playing into this.

Tim Langdell doesn't appear to be a particularly nice guy, obviously, but to be frank, what I've read so far about his evil-doing is on the level of hearsay.

My recommendation is that if you're not involved, don't be so fast with the judging.

But the more one reads about this guy (so that's not judging fast but lots of researching) the more one can't help but to hate him. He really is a scumbag. It also hurts way more to hear about this as a developer than as a gamer. For an innovative indie developer this is the worst nightmare imaginable and personally I think I would wish this guy dead for making hard-working people suffer if he ever tried to pull a stunt like this on me.

 

[Pachael]

I eagerly await some counter-evidence then.

 

[Campster]

Is this real?

The image on the left is the real EDGE magazine cover from July 04. The image on the right is from public court documents produced in his battle with Cybernet Systems who made Edge of Extinction. Which, you know, clearly is designed to create brand confusion between his numerous film, computer, and videogame ventures. It wouldn't be quite so outlandish of the game hadn't been inactive for a while now yet these court documents were presented as late as March 9th of this year.


It's pretty clear he's trying to imply that EDGE magazine proudly proclaims it's a licensee of The EDGE Games, and that they have at least once featured quite prominently the EDGE brand of gaming machines on their cover (and as a result cements how super duper important the EDGE brand is, and how closely it's tied to what he does). How else can you possibly interpret that?

I mean, you can't submit trademark fan fiction to the court. This isn't about how awesome you would like your brand to be, or how in a world where you really had influence over these companies you'd try to get them to collude. This Edge Magazine/Edge Computers slash fic image is at BEST hypothetical and misleading and at worst an outright lie.

 

[wolfmat]

For an innovative indie developer this is the worst nightmare imaginable

Certainly. Especially since Langdell apparently took his time and waited until the game was already selling although he obviously knows each and every Edge-related title in the world and is happy to threat people.
He really waited until there was pressure on the developers because they already had a name tied to this title.

Or that's what it seems like, at least.

 

[nofi]

I'm just catching up on all this. Wow.

The PS3/Wii/360 games on the edgegames site, they real?

 

[Krev]

I'm just catching up on all this. Wow.

The PS3/Wii/360 games on the edgegames site, they real?

Have you ever heard of them?
Have they ever been covered outside of the Edge Games website?
Has Langdell released a new (as in, not a port) game this decade?

 

[Campster]

I'm just catching up on all this. Wow.

The PS3/Wii/360 games on the edgegames site, they real?

As far as anyone can tell, they're "real" games. The EDGE site is a bit misleading about their relationship with them, though.

They're real games in the sense that they did exist at some point; they're not just target renders. And for all intents and purposes, EDGE Games may well have the license to publish/release these games in some territory, somewhere.

Racers, for instance is also known as Voltage by Lexicon, the Czech developers. You can see the same screenshots from EDGE's website in this preview from Computer and Videogames dated May of 2008. Mythora seems to be also known as The Banished and was also made by eastern Europeans.

In other words, EDGE Games may well secure the legal rights to distribute games from small devs in Eastern Europe on the cheap. They don't develop these games, and unless someone can correct me I've never seen them actually distributed anywhere either. But I'm giving Langdell the benefit of the doubt and assuming that if nothing else he legally owns the rights to publish these games in some capacity in some territory.

 

[D2M15]

edit: Campster's way ahead of me.

 

[nofi]

As far as anyone can tell, they're "real" games. The EDGE site is a bit misleading about their relationship with them, though.

They're real games in the sense that they did exist at some point; they're not just target renders. And for all intents and purposes, EDGE Games may well have the license to publish/release these games in some territory, somewhere.

Racers, for instance is also known as Voltage by Lexicon, the Czech developers. You can see the same screenshots from EDGE's website in this preview from Computer and Videogames dated May of 2008. Mythora seems to be also known as The Banished and was also made by eastern Europeans.

In other words, EDGE Games may well secure the legal rights to distribute games from small devs in Eastern Europe on the cheap. They don't develop these games, and unless someone can correct me I've never seen them actually distributed anywhere either. But I'm giving Langdell the benefit of the doubt and assuming that if nothing else he legally owns the rights to publish these games in some capacity in some territory.

Thanks, that's what I was looking for.

 

[Krev]

As far as anyone can tell, they're "real" games. The EDGE site is a bit misleading about their relationship with them, though.

They're real games in the sense that they did exist at some point; they're not just target renders. And for all intents and purposes, EDGE Games may well have the license to publish/release these games in some territory, somewhere.

Racers, for instance is also known as Voltage by Lexicon, the Czech developers. You can see the same screenshots from EDGE's website in this preview from Computer and Videogames dated May of 2008. Mythora seems to be also known as The Banished and was also made by eastern Europeans.

In other words, EDGE Games may well secure the legal rights to distribute games from small devs in Eastern Europe on the cheap. They don't develop these games, and unless someone can correct me I've never seen them actually distributed anywhere either. But I'm giving Langdell the benefit of the doubt and assuming that if nothing else he legally owns the rights to publish these games in some capacity in some territory.

Makes sense. I'd assumed the worst based on Langdell's history and character.
Here's a bigger question: does Mirror's exist, and what does it involve?

 

[BluWacky]

Bizarre e-mail

Without Prejudice Save As To Costs is a UK law specific term and doesn't apply to US law in particular. Besides, it doesn't prevent Papazian from publishing the e-mail, it just can't be presented as part of any eventual court proceedings.

I HAD thought that it only applied in an ongoing case rather than pre-emptively, has any action been filed by either party at this point? I'm only basing this on my experience with family law cases so it may be different in trademark law.

Rather interestingly, a gambling company called Gaming Technology Solutions PLC is currently applying for a community trade mark (covering most of Europe) for "EdGE" for their electronic gambling platform in classes where I'm sure Dr Langdell will have an objection. They have legal representation based in Kent; I wonder how far they'd take any contest to their application?

Quite frankly, neither Langdell nor Papazian are doing themselves any favours. Papazian should have sought legal representation sooner, and Langdell shouldn't be acting on his own as he's only digging himself deeper. Neither of them have acted particularly professionally thus far, and although Langdell is TECHNICALLY in the right it doesn't really alter the fact that he's not really painting a great picture for himself.

Does US law have any provisions for contesting a trademark registration on the grounds of false evidence?

 

[Open Source]

As far as anyone can tell, they're "real" games. The EDGE site is a bit misleading about their relationship with them, though.

They're real games in the sense that they did exist at some point; they're not just target renders. And for all intents and purposes, EDGE Games may well have the license to publish/release these games in some territory, somewhere.

Racers, for instance is also known as Voltage by Lexicon, the Czech developers. You can see the same screenshots from EDGE's website in this preview from Computer and Videogames dated May of 2008. Mythora seems to be also known as The Banished and was also made by eastern Europeans.

In other words, EDGE Games may well secure the legal rights to distribute games from small devs in Eastern Europe on the cheap. They don't develop these games, and unless someone can correct me I've never seen them actually distributed anywhere either. But I'm giving Langdell the benefit of the doubt and assuming that if nothing else he legally owns the rights to publish these games in some capacity in some territory.

Has his company put out any games in the past 10-15 years other than ports of his old stuff?

 

[Campster]

Has his company put out any games in the past 10-15 years other than ports of his old stuff?

Outside of ports, not that anyone has been able to conclusively show evidence of. I'd honestly love to see some, because I'm curious how he's doing it - buying cheap games from foreign companies, paying interns slave wages, or simply outsourcing tons of labor.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

Someone on the IGDA forums turned up another of Langdell's 'magazine covers':

:lol

That news post on the Edge games site is just incredible though. It's like reading TimeCube or something.

 

[ShinNL]

Just as expected, that public open mail on the news section of the website contains falsified evidence.

http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/iPhone/Edge+(iPhone)/news.asp?c=14907

I wish he could be put in jail for everything.

 

[haowan]

Bump for EA filing for Tim's TMs to be cancelled. Hohoho

http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=92051465&pty=CAN&eno=1

Beat that, Tim!

 

[Chittagong]

Bump for EA filing for Tim's TMs to be cancelled. Hohoho

http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=92051465&pty=CAN&eno=1

Beat that, Tim!

A few pages back I was hoping that EA would use their legal resources for the good of the industry and get this joker off the market. Looks like they are doing just that. I have no doubt the actual hearing will be an absolute riot - hope we get a Joystiq liveblog / feed

<3 EA

 

[Jonnyram]

Come on, EA. Lay the smack down.
I hope EDGE magazine will own their brand again after this. I guess that would pave the way for EDGE to be officially published in the US too?

 

[matrix-cat]

This kind of scum is exactly why the phrase "I shall become a bat" was coined.

 

[JonathanEx]

Here's the dates for when it'll all happen:

Time to Answer 10/27/09
Deadline for Discovery Conference 11/26/09
Discovery Opens 11/26/09
Initial Disclosures Due 12/26/09
Expert Disclosures Due 4/25/10
Discovery Closes 5/25/10
Plaintiff's Pretrial Disclosures 7/9/10
Plaintiff's 30-day Trial Period Ends 8/23/10
Defendant's Pretrial Disclosures 9/7/10
Defendant's 30-day Trial Period Ends 10/22/10
Plaintiff's Rebuttal Disclosures 11/6/10
Plaintiff's 15-day Rebuttal Period Ends 12/6/10

 

[Calavera520]

will the edge iphone game ever be put back on the itunes store?

I really enjoyed the lite version and have never been able to purchase the full version.

 

[AniHawk]

Tim Langdell pissed off the wrooooong assholes.

 

[Yagharek]

will the edge iphone game ever be put back on the itunes store?

I really enjoyed the lite version and have never been able to purchase the full version.

Could they rename it to 'Ej'?

 

[BluWacky]

Here's the dates for when it'll all happen:

Realistically, those dates are meaningless. Langdell's previous practice is to delay legal proceedings as far as possible by claiming non-receipt of notices etc. This could drag on for a very long time.

However, it's a good thing that EA's legal resources are behind this, as I would have thought that Mobigame have next to no cash to fund any major legal action themselves. Especially if they can't sell their game!

 

[Mar]

God I hope EA violently destroys Langdell's ass until he can't sit down for the next 80 years. The slug needs to be squashed.

 

[Gattsu25]

Bump for EA filing for Tim's TMs to be cancelled. Hohoho

http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=92051465&pty=CAN&eno=1

Beat that, Tim!

Bravo

 

[jvm]

Bravo

Indeed. I have rarely read a legal document like this from beginning to end and cheered along the way ... but hey, EA is truly bringing me new exciting adventures, and I'm ok with that.

 

[Patrick Klepek]

More from EA and Langdell.

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/6...g-Edge-Games-Ownership-Of-Edge-Trademark.html

 

[ShinNL]

More from EA and Langdell.

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/6...g-Edge-Games-Ownership-Of-Edge-Trademark.html

"EA has filed a complaint to put an end to legal threats over a trademark issue related to our game, Mirror’s Edge," explained EA VP of corporate communications Jeff Brown to me over e-mail. "While this seems like a small issue for EA, we think that filing the complaint is the right thing to do for the developer community."

"A lot of small developers who are faced with this situation settle claims because they don’t know how, or can’t afford to fight for their rights," continued Brown. "We hope that as a result of this action, other developers will be less intimidated by unwarranted legal threats."

Oh yes! I'm becoming a (bigger) fan of EA now :O

 

[grandjedi6]

In the filing, Electronic Arts alleges that Langdell has effectively abandoned these trademarks through disuse. While Langdell vigorously states his company is actively involved in the development of games, both Mobygames and this analysis say the last game published by Edge Games was in 1990.

Edge Games' Web site says it is developing four multiplatform titles, one of which "Racers," was released on Sept. 9. "Clearly, Edge has not abandoned its trademark and that allegation is obviously destined to fail," Langdell told Kotaku. Langdell's statement says Edge's games "are on general sale at this time as they have been at all times over the past many years."

Significantly, EA also alleges that Langdell fraudulently obtained the trademark registrations, filing out-of-date and even falsified specimens to obtain them. EA alleges two registrations, dated 1996 and 2006, used box covers from games published in 1989 and 1990 and were not examples of a mark used in commerce, especially as the 1990 game was developed for the since-discontinued Commodore Amiga. Another 2009 registration submitted an Edge mark used on the 1986 game Bobby Bearing, saying that game had been in use "continuously over the past five years," on mobile phones. EA claims that is false.

EA says two other registrations, in 2004 and 2005, were obtained by submitting a nonexistent magazine cover in one case, and a Hulk comic book published in the 1990s in another. (Langdell claims to have licensed trademarks to the two publications.)

Langdell flatly denied that Edge ever committed fraud in applying for its U.S. trademarks.

http://kotaku.com/5370359/electronic-arts-sues-to-cancel-langdells-trademarks

:lol

So Langdell's strategy in the face of proof that he has been lying all these years is to outright lie. Typical.

 

[BluWacky]

Langdell has a point about Edge Games now trading. If EA had done this ages ago before all the unwarranted publicity then he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on on those allegations, but he can now prove that Edge Games has used the trademark in connection with goods available in the relevant categories.

EA can still totally screw him over for the fraudulent registrations, though.

 

[mrkgoo]

Oh yes! I'm becoming a (bigger) fan of EA now :O

EA deserves some praise for this one. For sure, who knows whether they really have the developer community in their interests over their own benefit, but in regards to goodwill in even the hardcore consumer market that are aware of this issue, they can gain a lot of ground.

 

[chubigans]

Dear EA,

I love you.

Much regards,

chubigans

 

[Doc Evils]

http://kotaku.com/5370359/electronic-arts-sues-to-cancel-langdells-trademarks

:lol

So Langdell's strategy in the face of proof that he has been lying all these years is to outright lie. Typical.

Damn he's fucked.

This will be epic.

GO EA!

 

[MomoPufflet]

I'd like to take a moment to retract anything bad I've ever said about EA. And if I ever speak ill of them at any point in the future, I am wrong. Thank you.

Please EA, fuck Tim Langdell's wretched asshole in court until it bleeds.

 

[Raydeen]

The Edge actually published some decent C64 and Spectrum games back in the day.

Fairlight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LpzQhy9lsg

Brian Bloodaxe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOtxM2d4c-E

If you look at their 8-bit logo, I could certainly see why he'd get some cash from The Edge magazine.