Devolution
Member
What's the last good movie an American black actor was the lead in before Durango?
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Iron Man is a killer... of Terrence Howard's career. According to him.
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airmangataosenai
Member
I can see the argument for Freeman not being a leading man, but the other four all regularly get starring roles.
The Lamonster
Member
Yep I liked Howard way more in the role.
RDJ ended up fine because Mel Gibson actually paid for his insurance. Without him RDJs career would be non-existent. Even when he turned his life around, he couldn't get any work until someone else stepped in to support him. He fucked up and had this one friend who made sure he didn't end up like Lindsay Lohan did now.
You just proved my point. If you check Octavia's work history, she's been acting in film since the 90s, back in her early 20s. Finally as a middle-aged woman, she finally caught a momentary break before probably being sent back into relative obscurity. Actresses like Jennifer Lawrence and Emma Stone are winning lead acting Oscars or starring in multi-installment movie franchises. The barrier for entry, and chances to succeed, is set so low for them that it's laughable. Melissa is an unusual example that has to do with the "skinny is better" paradigm in Hollywood. The two I listed are repeat examples that can be witnessed throughout Hollywood.
Taylor Kitsch struck it big by flopping over and over; how many young black actors can you honestly say get those kinds of opportunities to fuck up (and still make lots of money) at the very top? I would say none. People shit on Terrence and call him greedy for simply wanting his fair share, similar to ongoing stream of white newcomers getting handed the keys to the kingdom for practically doing nothing.
40-year old Idris Elba with 25+ years acting experience has to share magazine space with a random young hack under the title "The next generation of Hollywood Stars." Idris at his age and level of talent should already be at the top, not being featured in a story for his "future potential." (in comparison, Dicaprio was barely 20 and firmly established when he starred in Titanic -- again, this example repeats itself throughout the film industry). Someone like Anthony Mackie (who isn't even that young or new to acting - which says it all) should've been on that cover.
edit: Lohan is still in the spotlight and gets regular work.
If she cleans herself up and reinvents herself (an opportunity people like her frequently get), she will have an "inspirational" semi-biographical film made about her tumultuous childhood-to-adult life and acting career.
When that man eats on screen......especially something of the BBQ or chicken wing nature. You stand and you pay attention to what he has to say.
Exactly! Hollywood is like the NFL, and black actors are like running backs. They need you on a the roster, but don't want to pay you. Unless you are one of the very few high profile actors. The problem is there are very few high profile black actors. So if you start to bitch they will just replace you. Halle Barry was able to pull some shit off in XMen Last Stand only because of here status. White actors are in a better position overall. With their only issue being if their careers are already in a decline. Or in RDJ ,and Mickie's case your career is in jeopardy because of off film mistakes.
Cheadle was bad as Rhodes, but Howard wasn't great as him the first place. He just looked a lot better by comparison.
I wish we could get some hard facts on Howard and his wife re: who beat whom, because it has a pretty strong bearing on whether I give a damn about an actor's career.
I wish we could get some hard facts on Howard and his wife re: who beat whom, because it has a pretty strong bearing on whether I give a damn about an actor's career.
The character was written to doubt and go against his better judgment of Stark because of his history, to ultimately consolidate the buddy cop duo status.
The friendly Howard contrasts with Dicky Cheadle because one continued the character when he changes. Not because Cheadle acts like a dick.
This may sound weird right now, but wait till may!
No, it's because Cheadle acts like a dick. As I said, it's partly what the plot demands, but Cheadle's performance has no warmth or compassion to it. Howard would have made you feel bad for Rhodey having to screw over his friend like that, but Cheadle plays it pure military and do-my-duty, and he just comes off as an asshole (not that Tony isn't being a bigger asshole, but still). I believe Howard would have brought warmth to the part where Cheadle did not. As a result of Rhodes' coldness, it's hard to accept or root for their reuniting for the final battle.
I wouldn't say Taylor Kitsch got a bunch of chances after bombing. All of his movies that were supposed to be big hits were made around the same time and he's definitely not going to be a lead in any future big budget movies that haven't already been filmed. That he got the chance to be the lead in those movies in the first place is more accurate to what you're saying, though.
Michael Jai White should have been Rhodey Rhodes.
You've been in the gaming forum too much lol.
You've been in the gaming forum too much lol.
he should be black panther or luke cage godamnit
Nice to see that Howard's efforts as Rhodes did not go unnoticed. Cheadle is a great actor but he copped a dour personality that was not a good fit for Rhodes.
Howard was quite funny as Rhodes, he played the exaperated aid very well. I love the scene when they're in the private jet and Rhodes refused to have a drink or relax, trying to be all professional. Next scene he's drunk as fuck giving Tony his life story. Then he had to ride in the Hum Drum Vee.
Terrance and Robert had great onscreen chemistry. Hearing about his domestic issues is sad and disturbing. Is there anything to confirm this?
Howard was quite funny as Rhodes, he played the exaperated aid very well. I love the scene when they're in the private jet and Rhodes refused to have a drink or relax, trying to be all professional. Next scene he's drunk as fuck giving Tony his life story. Then he had to ride in the Hum Drum Vee.
Terrance and Robert had great onscreen chemistry. Hearing about his domestic issues is sad and disturbing. Is there anything to confirm this?
Flight.
equippedwithtowel
Member
Hollywood isn't a reflection of census data though, it's an outlet of the culture of the time. Generally unless you are Denzel or Smith very few lead roles are offered in the mainstream that are notionally race neutral until they are cast. Foxx's two noted lead roles are a Ray Charles biopic and a Slave Revenge fantasy, neither of which were realistically up for contention. It's summed up nicely by Chris Rock's joke at the Oscar's: animated features let actors take on impossible roles, If you're a white dude you can be a prince or a super hero, If you're a black dude you can be a talking donkey or a zebra (obviously paraphrased).
His wife is pretty clearly racist and Howard has some self-hate issues. Its quite the blend... When the first stories came out, it was assumed that Howard was the aggressor but since its been pretty clear that it was the other way around. Since then, Howard has got even more hate from people as he "allowed" his wife to treat him like that.
So
Dating a white woman AND getting slapped around by your wife. He's probably still losing supporters.
Devolution
Member
I don't even go into gaming, it's what I get for posting before coffee.
Howard was one of the people who rushed to Chris Brown's defense so fuck him.
cutmeamango
Banned
Octavia was a filler cast in TV shows. And again, she would visually fit roles that are already not prominent at all for white women, much less for black ones.
While Jennifer Lawrence and Emma Stone meet an absurd amount of criterias for easy roles.
A better comparison (or question actually) would be "where are the young black, hispanic and asian actresses?", Zoe Kravitz is the only name that comes to mind, so that's already telling.
I wouldn't wish Battlefield lead role for any aspiring actor. John Carter was not his fault, as in bad acting, it may be his fault in lack of name for such a huge production (the movie isn't even bad actually). But eh, he became a poison already, we'll see how it pans out for him.
Idris Elba can join the fantastic ensemble of british (and 'foreign', by the way) actors of any color that don't get a (good) chance in Hollywood.
Anthony Mackie is a shame indeed, although he does get important roles.
Lets hope he makes an awesome Falcon and he soars ever so high.
Lohan is still in the spotlight?!
He doesn't act like a dick! Again, we'll see in Iron Man 3.
Black-Wind
Member
1 ... That's a strange question to ask.
2. IDK, Flight, maybe Alex Crosser was decent (don't know, didn't see it), Cloud Atlas?
Count Dookkake
Member
RED TAILS was great fun. Eff the haters.
Black-Wind
Member
He's starring in The robo-mechs vs Monsters movie, HIS DAY IS COMING!
Kitsch will bounce back as long as he doesn't go off the deep end.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Terrence Howard's career died because he's a generally unpleasant person on most of his sets, and the box-office receipts on his films weren't enough to purchase the amounts of give-a-fuck necessary for producers/directors to put up with it.
That's it.
That's it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/11/terrence-howard-defends-c_n_166146.html
That video of him 'defending' Brown is literally him walking out of a restaurant looking like he's already had a few drinks while he's asked the question on the way to his car. The Rihanna thing wasn't even all over the news yet I believe.
And even if he's deemed 'full of shit' right there, it could be said that it makes some sort of sense seeing that he doesn't retaliate toward his own spouse over her abuse towards him. (For the record, I don't think he's full of shit)
Doesn't stop other people. Plenty of actors crank out shit for years while being asshats the entire time too. They're not struggle-tier yet. And if they are, its not over simply asking for money.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I agree with many of your points, especially in relation to black Oscar winners falling off the face of the earth. Most actors win an Oscar and benefit from higher money offers for flicks; black actors win and are expected to work at the same price they did before winning, and if not they're shit out of luck.
But I would never defend Terrance Howard. This is a man who beats his wife and has made ignorant, racist comments aimed at black women in the past. And if we're gonna be real, he's not a good actor. Fuck him.
Back on topic: most film roles don't have a specified race requirement, but film execs and directors lean towards whites predominantly because they make money. Black actors are regulated to rather generic roles - the supportive friend or mentor especially. Many of Denzel Washington's recent films feature in some variance of that role, just on a large scale.
waterydave
Banned
Adding to the above statement
When Ironman was being casted RDJ was still a recovering addict and hadn't yet cleaned up his image. Howard on the other hand was getting good press from his parts in Crash and Hustle & Flow.
It went both ways dude. Their divorce was a nasty one and plenty of shit came out from both sides.
My biggest problem with Howard is that he hates looking in the mirror. That dude has self-hate near the level of Clayton Bigsby.
This was basically it. Dude always came across as a stuck up dude.
But I did NOT KNOW, about all that shit with his wife....the fighting....the racial slurs....self hatting cornball brother? Didn't know T Howard had that much baggage damn
His career is already dead. Kitsch was just the newest fad. He replaced Worthington and has now been replaced by Chris Hemsworth.
Didn't stop Christian Bale... Its not like they were following all that different career paths either (Prior to Batman, obviously)
cutmeamango
Banned
We'll have to wait for Terrence Howard's TRUE HOLLYWOOD STORY.
Ed Norton style.
The second he stops bringing in the money, he'll have to become a whole lot nicer on set.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Flight and before that...uh I Am Legend?
Tears For Fears
Banned
I have a friend who absolutely believes Terrence is in the closet.
Yea I just remembered the Christian Bale outburst....and people shrugged that shit off literally a week later.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I can never respect him due to that, shit is disgusting. And even outside of that he's known to be an asshole diva on sets.
I don't understand, is this supposed to be a negative?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The part where I said his box-office reciepts weren't enough to purchase the headache. That part.
Is that fair? No. But that's the truth of it. The amount of roles for Terrence Howard were already limited because Hollywood is only just now, in 2013, starting to figure out what the fuck to do with black actors, and that's mostly because Tyler Perry showed them they're a legitimate market segment worth catering to - quality of Perry's movies aside.
So combine the fact that Howard was already marginalized in the industry from jump, and then add to that he's a fucking prissy nutcase? That's what sunk him. Iron Man's public contract dispute was just the excuse people needed. Had that been handled well - there would have been another excuse shortly afterwards.
edit: The comparison to Ed Norton is a pretty good one, although even then, Norton had to REALLY overstep his bounds (consistently kneecapping his directors/producers with behind-the-scenes power plays). He still got way more leeway than Howard did.
He never stopped bringing in money though because he's hardly ever been the leading man to begin with. Its not like he headlined a big budget movie and it bombed. That'd be entirely different - but its not the case at all.
And what's this "be a nice guy and smile :3" shit? If he can do the job he showed up to do, well, then why does it matter?
The market that Perry shoots for is not a large market at all though. He's just been the guy to give a fuck - because its not like he's done anything truly remarkable other than reminding black people that black people can be on TV "Tune in for black people!". He's taken a forgotten market, and cornered it. That doesn't make him anything more than a map reader.
I'm really unsure of what you mean when you say that Hollywood has finally found out what to do with black actors though.
edit: Norton is a good comparison too.
Respect him due to what? Getting slapped by his wife or slapping his wife? Because it was clearly on both sides. Shit, she was clearly labeled as the aggressor during their divorce proceedings. I don't necessarily like him either, but its for shit that he actually was guilty of. He's not a wife beater. He's a dude that likes when women slap him and call him a monkey while they're having sex (only sometimes though).
And being an asshole diva on set doesn't get your blacklisted. If it did, Hollywood would be looking like Detroit's auto industry.
Kitsch's next movie is a Peter Berg film starring alongside Mark Wahlberg, Eric Bana, Emile Hirsch and Ben Foster. His next film after that is costarring alongside Brendan Gleeson. Minority actors would murder their first born child for their 'dead' careers to result in such films.
And I'd add Nicholas Hoult's name to the list alongside Chris Hemsworth.
Stealth Editor
Member
Right but playing the victim is so much fun
Devolution
Member
It's a good idea and one I already do >_>.
cutmeamango
Banned
Who and which he jointly landed along Battleship...
Unless you mean Kitsch should have been dumped by now.
And costarring alongside Brendan Gleeson (in a small canadian production) must be awesome to learn but it is hardly "success!" in exposure or financial terms.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I mean they've only recently started accepting that black people can play more than the 3 or 4 archetypes they've assigned.
Look, I'm not trying to validate Tyler Perry as an artist. I'm telling you that studios were largely taken by surprise at Perry's box-office success working on the margins of their system, and as executives often do, started looking at what parts of that formula they could appropriate to bolster the reciepts they're already getting. Perry's box-office successes (diminishing as they are - you can't get too successful in Hollywood without catching a cane to your kneecaps once or twice) definitely woke some execs up.
I'm not saying Howard should just shut up and smile at all. I'm saying Iron Man didn't kill his career: The industry itself isn't all that friendly to black actors, and the amount of jobs, and the amount of competition FROM those jobs, made it hard for people to justify paying for him, hiring the headache that comes along with that, for - as you pointed out - what amounts to supporting roles at best.
It's a shitty story all around.
JCreasy
Member
I have to agree with everything you said here.
Cheadle is good - loved his Mouse in Devil in a Blue Dress - but you're right, his Rhodes is just kind of a smart ass and nothing else. It was almost as if he wanted to out-smart-ass RDJ, which can't work.
Even though he may be a dick in real life, Terrance Howard did a great job portraying a sympathetic friend. I actually miss him as Rhodes when I watch Iron Man 1.
I wonder if this shit was really about Jon Favreau's personal issues with him. Howard being a dick just exacerbated the issue. This beg's the question - could Howard have gotten along with Shane Black better maybe? Shane Black is just more blue collar, down to earth dude. He talks shit with the best of them. I don't see him getting easily butt-hurt over small spats with Howard.
My feeling is that Terrance Howard might still be Rhodes if Shane Black had directed Iron Man 2.
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