Many key members of that team left long before it was closed anyway, so at best you'd be getting a game with the same developer logo.Fuck.
Many key members of that team left long before it was closed anyway, so at best you'd be getting a game with the same developer logo.Fuck.
Wondered the same thing the moment this thread posted (and merged?).
The amount of vitriol in this thread over a disappointing game in light of some ~150 people losing their jobs is sickening.
The opposite I think actually. "You guys finished that? k now get the fuck out of here"So Burial at Sea 2 is now vaporware?
Kind of figured that would be the case.Many key members of that team left long before it was closed anyway, so at best you'd be getting a game with the same developer logo.
Not really. A lot of GAF has no connection to the industry, let alone Irrational Games, but only to the games themselves. People lose their jobs all the time.The amount of vitriol in this thread over a disappointing game in light of some ~150 people losing their jobs is sickening.
But there is a responsibility to read between the lines of press releases to find the actual story. But its not simply a case of lazy journalism, either. Even if we tried to get the story from former employees, they would not be able to speak to us: either because of contracts theyve signed or, much more simply, because they still want to find a new job in the industry. And so, they remain invisible to us.
The ease with which 2K and Levine are able to spin a studios closure and the loss of over a hundred jobs to one of an auteurs exciting new venture reveals just how poorly we journalists, players, critics appreciate the full breadth of people whose labour creates these works.
But theirs are the only voices we will hear on the matter, and so the myth of the great creative auteur continues.
So Burial at Sea 2 is now vaporware?
Yup, we never get to hear from developers other than the leads. Which is why I have loved the Double Fine documentaries because pretty much everyone is given a voice. Maybe that kind of documentary would not be allowed with a AAA developer
Yeah I would agree with this hypothesis. This way he can retain an image of success.The amount of people buying Levine's statements at face value is surprising.
This was about money, and he's indebted to 2k if he's handing over IP and promising his near-future output to them.
I don't know which is more surprising: the implosion of Irrational or the harsh words from JP LeBreton. Being somewhat familiar with him from various podcast and live stream appearances he comes across as very easy going and level headed. I don't think he'd put someone on blast like this unless there were very good reasons. It seems like the best advice one could give to Ken's Chosen 15 disciples is to watch their backs.
Is this coming from JP LeBreton's twitter? I only see this. It seems he's happier at Double Fine.
He removed his initial tweet.
ninjas probably.He removed his initial tweet.
The amount of people buying Levine's statements at face value is surprising.
This was about money, and he's indebted to 2k if he's handing over IP and promising his near-future output to them.
Yeah I would agree with this hypothesis. This way he can retain an image of success.
Huh. Surely someone must have archived it...either way, yeah many people will be giving anonymous details about how it went down. Maybe Shawn Elliott might be one of them?
Just look at the pattern.
Prior to Q3/Q4 2013, Take-Two were happy to piss away money on projects taking fucking forever to get finished, and quite content for those projects to get scrapped and rebuilt as many times as it took. BioShock was penned one way, scrapped and rewritten and build as something else. XCOM went from a BioShock-like first person shooter to a squad based third person shooter. Infinite went through god knows how many iterations over six to seven years. Mafia II took forever and despite knowing Mafia III exists we haven't seen/heard anything for three years.
Take-Two has had to dance around shareholders as to why money keeps disappearing down development sinkholes and why they only ever seem to turn serious profit when Grand Theft Auto or Red Dead Redemption is part of the fiscal report. How many times can you tell shareholders "No, next year we'll make profit! We promise!", and just have the same thing happen all over again.
I mention Q3/Q4 because here's what's happened since:
* 2K Marin/Australia mass layoffs and leftover staff dissolved. This studio was responsible for the aforementioned XCOM.
* 2K Czech apparently having lost development control of whatever state Mafia III is in, the game now at a different 2K studio. Rumour, but probably true.
* Irrational Games effectively closed sans Ken Levine and 15 people who'll move on high return-of-investment digital games. Responsible for a ~7 year multi-million dollar game development.
What else does Take-Two have? Max Payne 3 apparently cost a fortune and didn't sell as well as projected. NBA, WWE, and Borderlands are co-owned by their respective studios, so Take-Two doesn't get a full cut. Civilization is probably the only other stand out, that and obviously Grand Theft Auto. Spec Ops bombed.
I can't imagine Take-Two's suits are particularly interested in appearing at another fiscal report full of pissed off shareholders, only able to recycle the same "next year guys!" rhetoric.
I think you'll find there is a dollar sign behind everything.
Well yeah, it's not like no one is getting paid or something.
I just recently played the first Bioshock the first time, and while it was a nice and worthwhile experience, it was nothing like the absolutely glowing reviews made me expect.These high budget titles were dumbing down Levine's games. Hope with his next project, he'll be making games more like System Shock 2. Won't sell as well as Bioshock games but won't cost as much either.
This piece is predicated on an incorrect idea, I think. While it's definitely true that people tend to erroneously attribute one face to a game/movie/what have you, moving towards a smaller team isn't "meglomania" - it's the exact opposite, actually, a smaller team means Levine really can have the creative control he so clearly wants in every aspect of his work. Ken's name won't be stamped over several hundred peoples' work anymore.
Claiming that the move is "ironic" and similar to something his games would rail against is silly. Throughout the myriad of "Ken Levine is impossible to work with" stories we've seen over the course of two Bioshocks, it's obvious that a smaller team is what he needs. The weird part is why Irrational had to close because of it, rather than Levine just leave. I see two possible reasons: either there are financial implications we're not aware of that had Irrational on 2K's chopping block anyway, or Levine was too stubborn to hand the reins over to someone else on the way out.
No matter what happened, there's definitely more going on that we're aware of and a story to be dug up, and quite possibly one that isn't flattering to Ken Levine. I just can't really put much stock in these quick, dramatic think pieces.
What also seems odd to me is if Levine was the main head and responsible for the delays/troubled development of Bioshock Infinite I would consider him more as a liability than an asset if I was T2. I thought of Fumito Ueda and Team Ico demise at Japan Studios as a similar situation (looking from the outside without any financial ramifications knowledge of each case). The studio was dismembered, but Ueda keeps working for Sony as a freelancer to help finish the game. Then I would guess they will part ways. It would be met with similar disbelief if Sony went on to give Ueda another lead role even if at a smaller internal studio with a flatter organizational structure after The Last Guardian trouble development process.
But maybe there really are financial obligations behind this move. The Bioshock IP was T2's from the beginning right?
Team Ico was not shut down when Ueda left
It's easy to forget this given the incestuous world of gaming media/PR/development/etc -- and given the way that many gaming outlets approach their audiences -- but Kotaku is a site for people who play and are interested in games, not just the people who make them. I think it's OK to both empathize with the people who lost their jobs and be excited that a talented game designer is leaving the shackles of AAA shooter development. You all know my track record -- if there's a bigger story here, we're going to try to tell it -- but right now this isn't just a story about layoffs."The few news posts I've seen about Irrational so far spend like 1 paragraph on ppl losing jobs and 4+ on What Levine Is Doing Next."
Feels weird that gaming journalists care more about Levine's next game than the 100s of people who lost their jobs.
It's easy to forget this given the incestuous world of gaming media/PR/development/etc -- and given the way that many gaming outlets approach their audiences -- but Kotaku is a site for people who play and are interested in games, not just the people who make them. I think it's OK to both empathize with the people who lost their jobs and be excited that a talented game designer is leaving the shackles of AAA shooter development. You all know my track record -- if there's a bigger story here, we're going to try to tell it -- but right now this isn't just a story about layoffs.