I think it is a little early to start freaking out. We don't know much of anything about the character.
Even if he turns out to be gay, I don't really see why I should be concerned. and yes, heterosexual characters have often used sexuality to make protagonists uncomfortable.
Issues like racism and homophobia will never go away until we stop giving them so much coverage. Forcing creative mediums to avoid stereotypes is ridiculous, many actual people fit into stereotypes in their real lives. You can't just pretend that certain types of people don't exist because there's a stereotype associated with them.
Here's ultimately where this road will lead years later. Every game antagonist will eventually be a white male so that nobody from one of the oppressed groups of people is offended. Every game protagonist will be anything BUT a white male so that nobody from one of the oppressed groups of people is offended.
That's pretty unhealthy too.
I think protagonists and antagonists should be from varying walks of life and it shouldn't be a crime to cast someone from an oppressed group as a villain as long as that oppressed group is seeing a healthy amount of time as the hero, too.
But it will still lead to slices of discontent when each game is revealed and I fear that my first paragraph is where we will eventually end up so that "nobody is offended."
Not really. The character seems to have a lot of personality and I'm sure it will be expanded throughout the game. I doubt it will have a huge effect on his role as a villain for the game whether he is straight or gay.
I would just like to add, as a member of LGBT, I would love the new antagonist to be gay. We need more gay representation in all forms of media and to be honest, he isn't stereotypical at all from what I've seen and he looks just as powerful and commanding on screen as Vaas did.
The OP's issues seems to be more about people hating the villain more than usual because he's gay and not just omg gay person is bad guy therefore this enforces that all gay people are bad. Gay people should only be heroes and bastions of the light in games.
You have a point but meh, people will be scumbags. They always have been. They always will be. If the game makes him a well developed villain then that's a good thing imo. If people hate him extra because he's gay, well that's their issue and not something I feel creatives should worry about or not take a stance that bigots will hate this therefore lets just ban gay characters from ever being villains.
Let's assume for the moment that Tibetan Julian Assange is gay, and not just the owner of an atrocious fashion sense. So what if he is flamboyant? There are flamboyant gay people, there are non-flamboyant gay people. Continuing down this path of trying desperately not to offend anyone is ludicrous.
Besides, say that the character actually is gay, and it could actually be meaningful? I'd take that over the blatant shoehorning of a gay character into a game (like was the case with RE: Operation Racoon City) any day.
The fact that engaging in this conversation right now requires frequent assumptions about the content of this game and trucking in stereotypes is extremely troubling.
A time will come when an actual conversation can be had about Far Cry 4 (When we actually know the content of the game). Right now, this concern and speculation is only revealing some very bizarre and scary beliefs a lot of people secretly have when it comes to gay and racial stereotypes. (And a total lack of self awareness in conjunction with that.)
Why is being flamboyant such a bad thing? Are you saying that flamboyant gays do not exist and if they do they are just a "stereotype"? That's erasure.
Bad use of spoiler tags in the OP. Not that I care too much, but saying that you're talking about The Last of Us plot points and then spoiling DLC material is kind of lame.
Impossible to have an informed conversation on this subject when everything is just conjecture and stereotyping. "He looks gay so that means he is gay and that upsets me because gays should only be depicted in a positive light"...which is an absurd argument when you get down to it. Let's just play the damn game and have our conversation then, shall we?
Here's ultimately where this road will lead years later. Every game antagonist will eventually be a white male so that nobody from one of the oppressed groups of people is offended. Every game protagonist will be anything BUT a white male so that nobody from one of the oppressed groups of people is offended.
That's pretty unhealthy too.
I think protagonists and antagonists should be from varying walks of life and it shouldn't be a crime to cast someone from an oppressed group as a villain as long as that oppressed group is seeing a healthy amount of time as the hero, too.
But it will still lead to slices of discontent when each game is revealed and I fear that my first paragraph is where we will eventually end up so that "nobody is offended."
So by that token, an antagonist should never be a woman who's good at math (witch), a black person, a Jewish person, a Native American, or any other race or gender which has seen years of death and marginalization?
That reaches a point that is similar to other media types where you're not allowed to portray a criminal in a commercial as anything other than white male. And in a commercial, the white male is always the only one who is dumb and needs a woman to guide him through life.
It's a dangerous road when you say only people who have never faced oppression should be cast in antagonist roles.
You do realize that the person you were responding to was taking about stereotypes, right? Because he wasn't saying that at all, and your argument isn't addressing his point.
You can have a Jewish villain, but you probably shouldn't make them a Jewish stereotype.
That seems like a ludicrous assertion. Since when has not taking about issues ever actually solved them? Not talking about something just means we're not addressing it.
Here's ultimately where this road will lead years later. Every game antagonist will eventually be a white male so that nobody from one of the oppressed groups of people is offended. Every game protagonist will be anything BUT a white male so that nobody from one of the oppressed groups of people is offended.
No one wants this, though. That's just laughable slippery slope nonsense.
I think protagonists and antagonists should be from varying walks of life and it shouldn't be a crime to cast someone from an oppressed group as a villain as long as that oppressed group is seeing a healthy amount of time as the hero, too.
I think this is all people are asking for, really. More mature, realistic representation of groups that have been mostly marginalized or grossly stereotyped in the past. I agree that there's no problem with the gay character being the villain, the OP kinda derailed his thread with that complaint. It's only a problem if he turns out to be another cartoonish stereotype.
Either way he'll probably be a better character than Vaas, dude was mad corny.
I'm gay and I don't see the villain as being gayeven a caricature/stereotype of an effeminate, image-conscious gay man. He just seems like a narcissistic lunatic. Not sure why people keep equating a dude wearing a pink shirt with a dude who wants to marry another dude.
Or his "no" was from a completely different set of feelings than yours. But we'll never know because it was one word in response and all for the sake of trying to get that "first post" jab. Expounding on the word "no" wouldn't have resulted in a banning, but drive-by vague words of response did.
Bad use of spoiler tags in the OP. Not that I care too much, but saying that you're talking about The Last of Us plot points and then spoiling DLC material is kind of lame.
Of course no one wants this. That's what a slippery slope means. It's a destination that seemingly innocent desires can lead to, it's not a destination people actually want. It doesn't make it "nonsense", it makes it the textbook definition of slippery slope.
You can think it's laughable all you want, but we have other mediums where we can see the effects. Ever see anyone other than a white male breaking into houses in an ADT commercial? Do you ever see a white male as the victim having their house broken into?
look at the united states. race seems to be a daily issue and when you have the likes of al sharpton and jessie jackson always going on about race, racism will never go away. They routinely ignore crime committed by african americans on other african or non-african americans, yet will jump at the chance when it is a white person, even when in a lot of cases, race wasn't even the issue.
people who make issues like these guys and the OP trying to find fault when there is none or trying to play a card, these people inflame the whole issue which cause it to carry go on, without moving forward.
prejudices should not be ignored, but there needs to be some balance in society.
Seems like a colorful villain. Quite intriguing by the trailer and well performed/written. "LGBT" never once entered my mind. Some people only see the world through the prism of politics and activism.
I'd understand the OP a bit more if the character didn't look awesome. That villain had more character in a few minutes than many characters do in entire games. If he's gay, then that basically puts him as one of the better gay characters out there if the trailer is any indication. Isn't that more important? The treatment of the character?
Can't worry about fools looking for any excuse to hate on your race or sexuality. Or else white males can only be villains and good guys would have to be everyone else... Which is what you don't want.
I find it funny that you, of all people, look at the guy through stereotypes: he wears pink and has blond hair with weird haircut? He must be gay! No. Not all flamboyant pink-wearing guys are homosexuals. He can simply be rich, eccentric fuck. Unless it's stated or indicated in the game that he indeed is gay, his sexual orientation is unknown.
No to mention, even as a gay, he can still be "likable" (well, in the villain-y way) fun villain. I haven't played Far Cry 3, but from what I read people loved Vaas as a character (while still hating him as a villain). Why can't they love this guy too? Just because he wears pink suit? He already made a great impression in that few-minutes trailer - something some villains can't achieve during a whole game.
I think this is all people are asking for, really. More mature, realistic representation of groups that have been mostly marginalized or grossly stereotyped in the past. I agree that there's no problem with the gay character being the villain, the OP kinda derailed his thread with that complaint. It's only a problem if he turns out to be another cartoonish stereotype.
Except in this case, the villain is clearly the charismatic and compelling character, even if he turns out to be a cartoonish stereotype (in a game with other cartoonish stereotypes). I don't get why people would be upset with the fact that he's gay when he is quite clearly supposed to be the cool one, like Vaas.
I want more LGBT characters in games! ...but they have to be the hero.
First off, I find it extremely troubling that the OP, who is LGBT, is ASSUMING the character is gay based on stereotypes and then becomes "concerned".
C'mon man, as a white Italian-American male (I know I could have it worse!) I could cry all day about how my ethnicity is stereotyped in games, movies and society. I am not in the mafia, I don't like Jersey Shore, I don't wear gold wrist chains. I choose to ignore that sort of ignorance and keep on going. You can't change peoples opinions and perceptions if they are ingrained and you will only make yourself miserable trying.
We all have something to bitch about if we look hard enough. OP is so concerned with members of their community being represented in games, but not only do they have to be represented, they have to be represented in a POSITVE way. Sorry. That's bullshit in my opinion.
IF the villain is gay does that mean every gay person is an evil fashionista? If the villain is Italian and in the mafia does that mean all Italians are in the mafia?
Maybe we (Italians) are all just fat plumbers with mustaches.
In the immortal words of Bill Murray, "Lighten up, Francis."
If the character is gay then I don't think the "average gamer" will hate him for that. They'll probably hate him for the horrible things he does what with being a stab happy warlord. The people that will use the gay aspect (if it's there) are the intolerant homophobes that should be ignored until the ignorant hate dies out.
Mild, tagged spoilers for one of last years "big" games
(The Last of Us)
follows.
From the impressions, it seems like Far Cry 4's villain might be gay. Horribly stereotypical judgement, but he dresses, looks and sounds like a gay stereotype. And that worries me.
As a member of the LGBT community myself, I long for better diversity and representation in today's games. Outside of games that let you choose your sexuality, there are very few - if any - examples of well written, likeable LGBT characters.
Barring The Last of Us - and I applaud Druckmann for that
. Yet, at the moment, LGBT characters are met with a lot of hostility. When it was revealed during the
Left Behind DLC
that
Ellie
was not straight, there was a lot of internet backlash, with many saying that they felt that they had been tricked, or that it somehow worsened
Ellie
as a character. Obviously there was also a lot of positivity, which was great, but it was soured by the fact that there was so much negativity too.
When a character in Dragon Age II, who was male, would come onto your male character, many players complained that homosexuality was being "shoved down their throats" and that the unwanted attention made them "uncomfortable". All they had to do to stop his advances was say that they weren't interested, and that was it. Female characters would also come onto your character - to no issue. Yet the unwanted male attention led into enough of an issue on the internet that Bioware and EA had to address it, and thankfully they stuck to their ideals on representation and diversity. Every single article any gaming news site runs on LGBT representation in video games will be met with either homophobic remarks or "aggressive apathy" (i.e. I don't care about a character's sexuality, stop trying to talk to me about it - unless they're straight, because that fits the story).
Obviously, as a member of the LGBT community myself, it makes me incredibly sad and uncomfortable to read the horrible reactions people have to such things. Which is why I'm worried about Far Cry 4. If the antagonist of Far Cry 4 is gay, I'm concerned that the "average gamer" - the target audience for FC4 - will just view the antagonist's sexuality as another reason to hate him. I don't think this is a great position to place a gay character, when even LGBT characters portrayed as "likeable" (i.e. protagonists or companions) are already met with a shit-ton of hostility. Hell, even in Watch Dogs, where the NPCs are just mindless polygons that wander about, there were videos and reports of people seeking out and killing minorities just for the hell of it. So I think that putting a gay character in a role where they are supposed to be hated anyway is a bad idea.
Now this seems to run counter to my desire for better representation and diversity in AAA games. However, I just don't think that the wide gaming community will accept an LGBT villain if they won't accept LGBT protagonists or companions. I don't think it'll be like Skyfall, where an LGBT villain was accepted and regarded generally as a "good" villain, because the film industry has been around a lot longer than the gaming industry and as such has a much wider, much more diverse audience. Films are already well established as an artistic medium. The gaming industry meanwhile features a large percentage of younger boys/men and is not viewed by the general public as an artistic medium. Therefore it's harder for stuff like an LGBT villain to fly.
To give an example, if you were watching a film from the 50s, and all of the "good guys" were white men and women, but the villain was a stereotypical black man, would you consider that racism? If you would, then by the same logic, if you're playing a game in 2014 and all of the "good guys" are straight men and women but the villain is a stereotypical gay man, then it should be considered homophobia. And judging by Far Cry 3, which had some of the most stereotypical characters and elements in recent years, I doubt Far Cry 4's characters would be written with the subtlety and care seen in the likes of the Last of Us.
I would love to be proven wrong, but from here it looks like the villain is going to be a stereotype of a gay man. Into fashion and pink, dyes his hair blonde, is flamboyant etc. And that worries me, because instead of fleshing him out as a realistic character, I feel like it will become another reason for the "average gamer" to hate him. If he is gay, I can already bet that there will be a sequence where he uses his sexuality to make the player uncomfortable - which would never happen if the villain was straight. I feel like we need better diversity and representation in games but I think we need to start by having LGBT characters in likeable, or playable roles. That way the audience will get accustomed to them and start viewing that as less of a label and more of just a small facet of their personality, so that when a villain is gay they can be treated with the care and reception that a straight one would get.
Suck it up buddy, if you can't be a militant and then be a coward at the same time. If you want more character diversity you should accept the role that a LGBT character might end up being a villain and might be aggressive about his sexuality. You can't have these types of double standards if you expect people to accept you guys into society. I have a younger brother who's gay. I have a several good friends that's either work at gay bars and or gay. I'm pretty sure they aren't offended by this. Do you want a gay personality to be portrayed in only good light? Do you want only boring gay good guys being copy and past characters?
I feel like it will become another reason for the "average gamer" to hate him.
Wut?
"but I think we need to start by having LGBT characters in likeable, or playable roles. "
This is the part that troubles me,
Sounds to me like you're stereotyping him based on his appearance far more than any of us. I would love to be proven wrong, but from here it looks like the villain is going to be a stereotype of a gay man. Into fashion and pink, dyes his hair blonde, is flamboyant etc. And that worries me, because instead of fleshing him out as a realistic character,
Source? Seriously? When it was revealed during the
Left Behind DLC
that
Ellie
was not straight, there was a lot of internet backlash, with many saying that they felt that they had been tricked, or that it somehow worsened
Ellie
as a character.
COME ON DUDE! Stop trying to create controversy were there is NONE!!!
