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Opinion Is Ellie from “The last of us: Part ii” on steroids??

ArchaeEnkidu

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
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I've not insulted anyone. I've pointed out what's wrong with bigoted, ridiculous arguments people have made to overblow this whoal issue into some kind of weird SJW conspiracy theory when the truth is there're insecure about having Ellie as she is in the game. If you or anyone else felt but hurt about seeing what was presented as the truth you didn't wanted to believe then that's on yourselves. You wouldn't be this angry if it was just an over the top, obsurd insult, you'd just wave it off. Because of that, I'm gonna walk away from this thread knowing was right.

Have a pleasant day.
Looks like I wasn't the only one who saw through your thinly veiled bullshit.

There is a video game census study. Note that they weigh representation by number of copies sold since they are doing a study on impressions rather than what is being produced by developers, so it's slightly confounded and there's some small differences there, but probably not by that much as they show some unweighted data which has fairly small differences from the weighted data.

Compared to the US census, representation seems to massively under-represent Latinos and Native Americans, somewhat overrepresent white people but not that much, and represent Asian and Black people at the same rate as the census. So the posted image is pretty misleading here, as the actual results are more of a mixed bag.

To the surprise of no one though, there's massive under representation of women, so on the gender front, the image is correct.
Ah yes, the low citations and reputation of the journal that is published in scream to me that I have no need to pay heed to such trash. You basically pushed a journal article with the same reputation and quality in its research as former Dr. Wakefield's "Vaccines cause autism" report.

Return to me when you find one that was published in a journal of some repute and one that has some actual citations by other authors.
 

Keihart

Member
Jun 23, 2013
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All three of you, cut the crap. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Like I said, I’m not engaging with specious arguments, false whataboutism, misquotes, goalpost moving, strawmen, or those who make them.

That said, I do find it hilarious that we’ve got a cry for ‘Mods halp!’, and another guy going through my profile to dig up ‘dirt’, such as me being a new member (I’ve lurked since 2005). The methods never change, do they?
Well, you keep posting after repeating yourself ad nauseum about how you don't care about the thread or dlthe discussion, so no wonder you will keep getting quoted.

I have not engaged with your attempts at trolling because is that easy, you don't need to keep shouting "I don't care about you people" to make the point. That is anything but not caring about it. I do care about posters derailing threads by posting repeatedly with that intention which you have admitted even, because at the end of the day I do come ocassionaly to the discussion board to discuss.
 

Rhysser

Banned
Jun 22, 2013
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Looks like I wasn't the only one who saw through your thinly veiled bullshit.



Ah yes, the low citations and reputation of the journal that is published in scream to me that I have no need to pay heed to such trash. You basically pushed a journal article with the same reputation and quality in its research as former Dr. Wakefield's "Vaccines cause autism" report.

Return to me when you find one that was published in a journal of some repute and one that has some actual citations by other authors.
Uh, I posted the article because it mostly agrees with you in disputing the image, showing only a small over-representation of white people in games compared to the US population, not one that is like 100% like the image showed.

Also, low citations? It's been cited over 570 times, including by articles in top journals.

Bad Journal? It has an impact factor of ~5! I mean sure, it's not Nature, but 5 is pretty good for such a niche topic. I'd be surprised if ANY journals reach the ~8-10 range of the next tier for something so niche, which are typically 3 or below. For comparison, The Journal of Neuroscience, a very respectable journal that covers the dang entire field of neuroscience and is the official journal of the Society for Neuroscience only has an impact factor of 6.

Cannot imagine how this much egg must feel on someone's face.
 
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-Arcadia-

Gold Member
Aug 20, 2019
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Well, you keep posting after repeating yourself ad nauseum about how you don't care about the thread or dlthe discussion, so no wonder you will keep getting quoted.

I have not engaged with your attempts at trolling because is that easy, you don't need to keep shouting "I don't care about you people" to make the point. That is anything but not caring about it. I do care about posters derailing threads by posting repeatedly with that intention which you have admitted even, because at the end of the day I do come ocassionaly to the discussion board to discuss.
Well, to all of you, stop quoting me back in? It really is that easy. Lol, I’m not going to let your crap stand, am going to point out that it’s crap, and you can deal with that.

Likewise, stop attacking other members on the same false pretenses, and I’ll stop engaging there too.

Otherwise, I guess we’re going to be here for a very long time, hahaha.
 
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semiconscious

Member
Jun 30, 2006
7,654
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All three of you, cut the crap. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Like I said, I’m not engaging with specious arguments, false whataboutism, misquotes, goalpost moving, strawmen, or those who make them.

That said, I do find it hilarious that we’ve got a cry for ‘Mods halp!’, and another guy going through my profile to dig up ‘dirt’, such as me being a new member (I’ve lurked since 2005). The methods never change, do they?
seriously: click on your name: -Arcadia- . there's your 'dirt', son...

anyway, happy to've been able to put a smile on your face. & my heartfelt congratulations on finally, after lurking on this forum for over a dozen years, working up the courage to sign on...
 

-Arcadia-

Gold Member
Aug 20, 2019
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seriously: click on your name: -Arcadia- . there's your 'dirt', son...

anyway, happy to've been able to put a smile on your face. & my heartfelt congratulations on finally, after lurking on this forum for over a dozen years, working up the courage to sign on...
Thanks, it does mean a lot, knowing that we have this great relationship.

I would like to also extend my congratulations to you for your courageous return upon your strangely timed two year hiatus from this site, that happens to coincide with the rise of Resetera. I’m sure it must have taken a great leap of faith to post alongside people with differing opinions.

Likewise, a whopping 84 points in reaction scores! Dude, that’s awesome. 🙂

(Lol, this is so stupid, if we’re really going to do passive aggressive high school level attacks, but I suppose it is funny)
 

Rhysser

Banned
Jun 22, 2013
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coincide with the rise of Resetera. I’m sure it must have taken a great leap of faith to post alongside people with differing opinions.
I love the ResetEra obsession on GAF so much. People left and right accusing me of this too, though I would never post there because the last thing i want is to get doxxed if I disagree with someone. But GAF, even at the moderation team level, sees ERA everywhere. That ResetEra split must have really gotten under peoples' skin when it knocked this community down from one of influence to being just a niche.
 
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Jun 26, 2013
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Uh, I posted the article because it mostly agrees with you in disputing the image.

Also, low citations? It's been cited over 570 times, including by articles in top journals.

Bad Journal? It has an impact factor of ~5! I mean sure, it's not Nature, but 5 is pretty good for such a niche topic. I'd be surprised if ANY journals reach the ~8-10 range of the next tier for something so niche, which are typically 3 or below.

Cannot imagine how this much egg must feel on someone's face.
Number of citations have little to do with the validity of the study itself. For instance, the study claims that the under-representation is systematic, but offers no evidence proving that to be the case. And then, there's also the issue of who is citing the study. Are those studies that cite this one valid?

The study also mentioned cultivation theory which falls under the trap of the ad hoc ergo propter hoc and Appeal to Consequences fallacies. The idea of "violent videos games will cause real violence" uses cultivation theory as its foundation, though we see no correlation, let alone any causation. The other problem with cultivation theory is that runs on the assumption that consumers are ticking time bombs. However, if a person, for instance, commits violence after playing violent video games, that is not the fault of the games, but the person who conflated fiction with reality. People who only look at correlation will conclude that the video games are the culprit, but those who look for the causation will find that the violent person's mental state is completely unhinged.

Defenders of cultivation theory like to retort that it just means "people are affected by media". Well, ok? That's an observation, not an argument. How are those people affected? Is the cause stemming from the medium or the pre-existing principles that the consumers have? Because if it is the latter, then the solution would be to teach those people that their pre-existing principles are incorrect rather than changing the landscape of media altogether.
 

-Arcadia-

Gold Member
Aug 20, 2019
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I love the ResetEra obsession on GAF so much. People left and right accusing me of this too, though I would never post there because the last thing i want is to get doxxed if I disagree with someone. But GAF, even at the moderation team level, sees ERA everywhere. That ResetEra split must have really gotten under peoples' skin when it knocked this community down from one of influence to being just a niche.
I love this ‘niche’, speak for yourself.

Oh wait.




(Mods, please permit me this highly immature post. It made me laugh, and I just couldn’t keep it to myself.)
 

MagnesG

Member
Apr 20, 2019
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I've been feeling a bit generous so I'll give in my thoughts instead of, you know.. :messenger_grinning_sweat:
Still believe they got some bullshit going on with Ellie. Most women I knew of (granted only a few) which had that kind of back would already have a big body build since childhood, their rib cage is large for example, like boys. The back also looks soft, which means they're impossible to obtain naturally for a small feminine build without looking ripped and tight. Ellie had one, so no.

That's the conclusion for my armchair analysis.
 
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-Arcadia-

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Aug 20, 2019
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I've been feeling a bit generous so I'll give in my thoughts instead of, you know.. :messenger_grinning_sweat:
Still believe they got some bullshit going on with Ellie. Most women I knew of (granted only a few) which had that kind of back would already have a big body build since childhood, their rib cage is large for example, like boys. The back also looks soft, which means they're impossible to obtain naturally for a small feminine build without looking ripped and tight. Ellie had one, so no.

That's the conclusion for my armchair analysis.
Pretty much. And y’know, we really are The Last of Us, the game looks awesome anyway. So it’s whatever.
 
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MagnesG

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Pretty much. And y’know, we really are The Last of Us, the game looks awesome anyway. So it’s whatever.
I've no problem whatsoever either with the game existing, even with the occasional movie jabs I made. In fact, I enjoy the series as much as people who bought in to the hype and stop playing after 5 hours. I loathe the gameplay but still thought they make some good animations and lifelike graphics, always remembered the game as akin to a spinoff for the animated RE movies lol. That's a pretty high standard that I just don't understand why some people would get triggered so much by the "movie" comments.
 

vpance

Member
Jun 20, 2005
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I've been feeling a bit generous so I'll give in my thoughts instead of, you know.. :messenger_grinning_sweat:
Still believe they got some bullshit going on with Ellie. Most women I knew of (granted only a few) which had that kind of back would already have a big body build since childhood, their rib cage is large for example, like boys. The back also looks soft, which means they're impossible to obtain naturally for a small feminine build without looking ripped and tight. Ellie had one, so no.

That's the conclusion for my armchair analysis.
If ND were really woke they should've made her look like a WNBA center. As it is, it's still like watching Ellen Page cast in Rambo First Blood, back or no back.
 
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MagnesG

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Apr 20, 2019
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If ND were really woke they should've made her look like a WNBA center. As it is, it's still like watching Ellen Page cast in Rambo First Blood, back or no back.
They don't need to be woke really, just some whispers from the 'diversity' team, I wonder though is there anyone on the team could maybe whisper back on changing Ellie into bi :messenger_tears_of_joy: , you know even if Ellen herself being a lesbian. A fiction doesn't need to correlate with reality right? As we have seen with the girlfriend's flat boobs lmao.
 
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Jan 18, 2018
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Berlin
Two perma-bans too! Not about politics or social issues but fucking video games!
Sorry for critizizing this Mod-decision, but those bans really don't look good in the wake of "Here everyone can have and give their opinion!". What permabannable things did Rhysser and Shagger do/say? Because the linked posts can't be it, right?
 
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Screamer-RSA

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Nov 19, 2018
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Sorry for critizizing this Mod-decision, but those bans really don't look good in the wake of "Here everyone can have and give their opinion!". What permabannable things did Rhysser and Shagger do/say? Because the linked posts can't be it, right?
Well their way of discussing something is to constantly insult people who disagree. At a certain special place that is acceptable behaviour, but not here.
 
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-Arcadia-

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Aug 20, 2019
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Just look how much nicer the discourse has been since #TeamWoke left/was evicted.

It would probably actually be possible to have a conversation here now, even between differing perspectives on the matter.

That versus entering the topic screaming ‘incel’, personal insults, all the bad faith argumentative tactics I mentioned earlier...

People like that, and it’s not just politics related, but a general behavior malfunction, just drag everything down. Nothing productive can occur, because the goal is to destroy, rather than create, in terms of compromise, discussion, honesty, etc.

If anything, moderation kindly offered them leeway. Try posting even a different opinion on Reset, let alone acting like they did, to the native posters there.
 
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MagnesG

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Sorry for critizizing this Mod-decision, but those bans really don't look good in the wake of "Here everyone can have and give their opinion!". What permabannable things did Rhysser and Shagger do/say? Because the linked posts can't be it, right?
Rhysser had been preaching the same niche GAF mainstream ERA rethoric at least twice before, in the past months, seems like he/she really hates this place that much.
 
Jan 18, 2018
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Berlin
Well their way of discussing something is to constantly insult people who disagree. At a certain special place that is acceptable behaviour, but not here.
Errrm... this is not really out of the ordinary on here. There would have to go a LOT more people, if this was the line to not cross.

And -Arcadia- -Arcadia- : "Look how much nicer the discourse is, when there is no one on the other side of the opinionometer..." Well, yeah, "discourse" this ain't.

This thread was a funny read, based on a really stupid take with heavy hotheading on both sides of the "argument". But I still think, the banning was a bit over the top.
 

-Arcadia-

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Aug 20, 2019
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True, but is anyone being a shithead to anyone? It’s peaceful for the first time in days. A good conversation could happen now.
 

Xaero Testosterone

Formerly 'Xaero Gravity'
May 12, 2013
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Just look how much nicer the discourse has been since #TeamWoke left/was evicted.

It would probably actually be possible to have a conversation here now, even between differing perspectives on the matter.

That versus entering the topic screaming ‘incel’, personal insults, all the bad faith argumentative tactics I mentioned earlier...

People like that, and it’s not just politics related, but a general behavior malfunction, just drag everything down. Nothing productive can occur, because the goal is to destroy, rather than create, in terms of compromise, discussion, honesty, etc.

If anything, moderation kindly offered them leeway. Try posting even a different opinion on Reset, let alone acting like they did, to the native posters there.
Uhh, I'm still here Broseph
 
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Feb 15, 2013
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Only downside to this game for me is having to play the game as Ellie. Not the most likeable character or relatable either. Would have been far more hyped to get to play as Joel again. Strange how the main character in TLOU being substituted a la Snake with Raiden in MGS2 hasn't drawn the same controversy.
 
Aug 28, 2019
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Only downside to this game for me is having to play the game as Ellie. Not the most likeable character or relatable either. Would have been far more hyped to get to play as Joel again. Strange how the main character in TLOU being substituted a la Snake with Raiden in MGS2 hasn't drawn the same controversy.
Wasn't that controversial because you didn't find out until you were actually playing it? With this they're clearly advertising the game as a game where you play as grown up Ellie.
 
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Feb 15, 2013
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Wasn't that controversial because you didn't find out until you were actually playing it? With this they're clearly advertising the game as a game where you play as grown up Ellie.
True. Ok I admit the transition from Joel to Ellie from a story pov is far more seemless as she's main character in the first one.

Still will be pissed if Joel is not playable at all or not for a significant amount of time.
 

flacopol

Member
Jan 8, 2018
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IMO is like the char from control , has to be in the middle of man and woman , so everybody is happy
 

Jon Neu

..he neus nothing
Jan 21, 2018
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Sad to see people banned in this thread, even if they are from "the other side".

I don't think this thread is that serious, neither the level of insults or ad hominems. For my taste, I'm ok with a little bit of insulting as long as it doesn't get too personal or heavy.

But hey, that's like, my opinion, man.

Sounds like a contradiction to me. If SJWs are responsible for making Ellie not sexy (a specific claim I don't actually believe despite any influence they might have had on her - but let's play along) that means they have increased variety since Kitana still exists as sexified as ever in new installments of MK.
You are contradicting yourself in your own post.

As far as blaming Anita and SJWs for Ellie, in this study (free full-text available on google scholar if you care) they found that the decline in over-sexualization started way before, in 2006 since it's not just SJWs or Anita who want characters that make more sense within their context. Video games are maturing as a medium, and it's not being caused by SJWs trying to make ugly women.
So by your own say, in 2006 -before SJW even existed and noticed videogames as a target- the medium was already maturing following it's own momentum.

So as I said, SJW have nothing to do with the growth of videogames, it's just the result of the evolution of the medium.

The fact that Anita and the SJW doctrine has made Naughty Dog to create two not sexualized characters, doesn't change the fact that de-sexualized characters have existed in videogames since always and it's a trend growing because videogames are growing and there is more types of people interested in them and in new narratives.
 
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CurryPanda

Will restrain his sexual perversions
Mar 4, 2019
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You guys are really mean to Ellie. She has feelings you know?