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Is "Everybody's going to the Rapture" similar to the Tomb Raider X1 deal? Uh no

K

Kayant

Member
alexandros said:
How do you know that? Seriously, how? How do you know that Rise of The Tomb Raider would be the same game without Microsoft's money?
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Because they never said anything about not having enough financially and needing help with production when the game was announced, when the deal was announced, also when Phil clarified the deal two days. It was only yesterday that they are now "helping with developement" and publishing.
 
L

licktheenvelope

Member
EGM1966 said:
No. I'd say its more akin to Bloodbourne or Scalebound myself. I was a bit miffed from PC perspective but that's more down to the initial announcement. The developer wanted funds and a partner and chose Sony/PS4 so this is a fair play exclusive (or at least timed initially).
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Chinese Room just isn't a big enough company to build the game they wanted to across PC + Consoles and they had zero experience with consoles.

This partnership makes sense as they get to learn how to develop for consoles and get a huge amount of help in actually developing the game + financial backing and they get paid for the learning process.
 
D

dragonelite

Member
Different deals probably, but same result.
What was stopping The Chinese Room from pitching a kickstarter(?)

We did have SE say they were disappointed in TR sales.
 
N

navyguy734

Banned
Nobody has seen the contract between SE and MS, so the assumptions just make people look stupid.
Nobody knows exactly what or if Sony has paid for anything due to the fact these things usually are NEVER disclosed.
Depending on what side of the console war your on you will all just give poor examples, or ignore blatant obvious examples that are similar.
But the fact is this, nobody knows how much, it could be sharing advertising, helping with development, and a lower royalty rate to MS....but thats just an assumption.
I def would love to play dayz on xbox one, id love to play no mans land on xbox one, i would love to play the exclusive content on destiny for the ps4 on the xbox one, i would love to play the new silent hill on xbox one or get a cool teaser project on the xbox one....
while most of those may eventually hit xbox one, some may be times exlusives and some may not come at all...wonder how much sony paid for those? what deals there are in place for those? I dont know, and neither do 99% of any of you.
How a system getting an exclusive is such a big deal is beyond me, if MS really wanted to throw money around it could just buy a rockstar, a take two, a SE, or even a sony.... they are not predicting a loss in any quarters or for the year, unlike sony...so if they really wanted to throw money around, you would most likely see it in a way that deals with a franchise that moves consoles..not a tomb raider that just became relevant again because of the last game.
Reading these back and forth arguements with people with no insight to sony or ms business when it comes to certain deals are crazy, and are a prime example why people dont respect gamers...petty,immature,lack substance, and argue like kids with no facts to back it up...FYI a comment from a exec def does not mean you know all the details of a contract.
 
Z

Zeuanimals

Member
Superflat said:
It is known
Click to expand...

Phil Spencer did say that they're helping with development, so it could end up being better because of that rather than being what it might have been were it not co-developed by MS. Though, we don't exactly know what Phil Spencer means by "helping with development", could just be money thrown at Crystal Dynamics or it could be more like Sony's doing with EGTTR.

He did say that it's a similar deal to DR3 and Ryse, but I'm also not sure if they helped with the development of either project or if they just published it. Well, publishing is helping with development, but I mean actually have devs help out like Sony Santa Monica does.
 
T

travisbickle

Member
alexandros said:
How do you know that? Seriously, how? How do you know that Rise of The Tomb Raider would be the same game without Microsoft's money?
Click to expand...


It's a sequel, releasing next year, to the TR reboot game released 2013.

Two years between releases, by the same team, after a successful reboot ... It's pretty much set in stone what kind of game it is, a cash incentive from MS ain't going to change that.
 
L

licktheenvelope

Member
dragonelite said:
Different deals probably, but same result.
What was stopping The Chinese Room from pitching a kickstarter(?)

We did have SE say they were disappointed in TR sales.
Click to expand...

....

Tomb Raider is expected to sell its 6 millionth copy this month, a milestone that will mark the point at which Crystal Dynamics' 2013 franchise reboot will surpass the game's profit expectations.

"By the end of this month we will surpass 6 million units for our Tomb Raider reboot, and, having achieved profitability back in 2013 Tomb Raider has exceeded profit expectations and continues to make significant contributions to our overall financial performance," Gallagher wrote.

"At launch we set franchise records for the fastest selling day one and month one in Tomb Raider history," Gallagher wrote. "With the positive word of mouth and continued commercial momentum it's great to see Tomb Raider (2013) on course to become the best-selling game in the history of the franchise! This would be a crowning achievement for the teams around the world, and one that we have our sights firmly set on!"
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That and this sequel will cost substantially less to develop than the last Tomb Raider.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/6/5478170/tomb-raider-projected-to-hit-6m-sales-become-the-franchises-best
 
N

Noshino

Member
Kintaro said:
EGTTR is worse. Unlike Tomb Raider, for the foreseeable future, it will not show up at all on it's originally announced platform. While PC players will play Rise, we will not have EGTTR.

I mean, I get it. They couldn't handle it and needed help, but still sucks.
Click to expand...

Would you rather have the game stay exclusive and get cancelled within a few weeks/months?

the studio was pretty clear about it, they just didn't have enough money to do it.

stryke said:
I suppose one could argue - did they even try to do so?
Click to expand...

the problem is that if you try and fail you are at a huge disadvantage when you go in front of a publisher to negotiate a deal.

We don’t think we can raise enough through Kickstarter or public alpha to make this happen.
Click to expand...

it seems that they really thought about it
 
S

Superflat

Member
Zeuanimals said:
Phil Spencer did say that they're helping with development, so it could end up being better because of that rather than being what it might have been were it not co-developed by MS. Though, we don't exactly know what Phil Spencer means by "helping with development", could just be money thrown at Crystal Dynamics or it could be more like Sony's doing with EGTTR.

He did say that it's a similar deal to DR3 and Ryse, but I'm also not sure if they helped with the development of either project or if they just published it. Well, publishing is helping with development, but I mean actually have devs help out like Sony Santa Monica does.
Click to expand...

To be specific, Spencer said their money was helping development, which is still a vague and potentially misleading statement.
 
T

Triggerhappytel

Member
Zeuanimals said:
But Titanfall also needed funding and a 1st party stepped in to finish funding it.
Click to expand...

Apparently, yeah. However I don't believe for a second that EA wouldn't have coughed up the whole budget had MS not been a factor. They've been desperate to usurp COD for years, and what better way to do it than develop a game with its original creators?
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
I'm kind of baffled about this outrage for Tomb Raider.

People paying for exclusives is as old ad the "console war".
Sometimes that cash goes into development, sometimes it doesn't, but it's hardly anything new.

I guess if you don't own an xbox and you wanted to play the game, it's a bummer, but eventually we know it's going to come out everywhere, in a billion different editions and remasters and such, so it's not that big of a deal.
Meanwhile you'll have to buy a platform to play a game, just like you had to buy a PS2 for some time, to play GTA.
 
S

SomedayTheFire

Member
Man I remember that EGTTR thread just after it was announced for PS4. That was a nightmare thread. But no, OP it's more like Titanfall or Bayonetta.
 
C

Cave Johnson

Member
alexandros said:
So that is enough? Microsoft said that it's helping with the development of Tomb Raider.
Click to expand...

The point is, this makes as much sense as seeing "presented by Microsoft Studios" in front of a Sony platform. But let's expand that shall we? When you start implementing your OWN studios in partnership with the game, then there is clearly some deal between them such as keeping the IP title in favor of more experienced manpower and resources.

This is not the case of MS since by helping development can be interpreted as, "here's a bunch of cash, use it".
 
HORRORSHØW

HORRORSHØW

Member
lol that title change.

vylPlIA.png
 
Z

Zeuanimals

Member
mrklaw said:
After all the MS missteps, they probably have two dick moves in the bank that they can use for free
Click to expand...

Using that "get out of persecution for dick-move free card" would be a dick move. They'd have to say something like, "well, you think this is bad? Remember when MS did this and we did this instead?" and that doesn't really absolve them of anything, it's just dickish.

So their "get out of persecution for dick-move free card" would be to just not make a dick move. Also, it hasn't exactly gotten them out of getting a lot of heat for the PS Now prices, the lack of Vita support, or even the "lack of PS4 games".

Superflat said:
To be specific, Spencer said their money was helping development, which is still a vague and potentially misleading statement.
Click to expand...

Yup. I'm really skeptical since MS makes a lot of vague comments that turn out to be somewhat true or not true in the normal sense of the word "true". Still, don't really care since the last Tomb Raider game did absolutely nothing for me. Got it cheap on PSN, though.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Are these two deals similar? Let me show you the link that got me temporarily banned from NeoGAF for having a meltdown as evidence.
 
wapplew

wapplew

Member
boredandlazy said:
Anyone willing to take a punt on what the next false equivalency will be that'll start a new thread regarding this tomb raider thing?
Click to expand...

How about TR intended to release on 2016, MS fund and help them boost xbox version to 2015 holiday as an added value for their customer.
MS is not the one to blame, we should blame sony and valve not helping SE on their version.

Worth a try...

Hey, they can always fall back to project on the brink to cancel, project need the power of cloud, or other reason of choice from the book Titanfall final hour.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
boredandlazy said:
Anyone willing to take a punt on what the next false equivalency will be that'll start a new thread regarding this tomb raider thing?
Click to expand...
All I know is that I hope this becomes the next "port begging = ban" disclaimer policy in thread titles. It's absolutely insufferable to have a number of these threads every day when there's often just a fundamental lack of understanding from the OPs--Or, as you say, a rant about something that's false equivalence. People have the right to be ignorant about the meanings of IP ownership and/or first-party versus third-party development and/or publishing but that doesn't give them a right to flout it. It's no different than people who go into tech threads and don't actually discuss tech or sales threads and don't talk about sales. That gets clamped down on and so should this.

Everyone has a right to an opinion and to speak it but it doesn't make them immune from the consequences of being ignorant or outright trolling.
 
O

Occam

Member
aspiegamer said:
All I know is that I hope this becomes the next "port begging = ban" disclaimer policy in thread titles. It's absolutely insufferable to have a number of these threads every day when there's often just a fundamental lack of understanding from the OPs--Or, as you say, a rant about something that's false equivalence. People have the right to be ignorant about the meanings of IP ownership and/or first-party versus third-party development and/or publishing but that doesn't give them a right to flout it. It's no different than people who go into tech threads and don't actually discuss tech or sales threads and don't talk about sales. That gets clamped down on and so should this.

Everyone has a right to an opinion and to speak it but it doesn't make them immune from the consequences of being ignorant or outright trolling.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's lack of understanding. It's always the same modus operandi: False equivalency, tu quoque defense, being deliberately obtuse. There is method to this madness.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
Occam said:
I don't think it's lack of understanding. It's always the same modus operandi: False equivalency, tu quoque defense, being deliberately obtuse. There is method to this madness.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. If there's a legitimate lack of understanding we can have an ongoing thread for that on a case-by-case basis. The spread of factual information is never bad. The rest of that, though, has no place here.
 
AHA-Lambda

AHA-Lambda

Member
Probably quite simple, the amount of money needed to lock down Rise of the Tomb Raider is a full on unambiguous exclusive is almost certainly just too damn high.
 
R

RexNovis

Banned
The false equivalency will never end. How many threads have we had at this point? Let me guess has somebody claimed Bloodborne is the same deal here?

Just accept the fact that MS did something shitty. Then accept the fact that there is no contemporary equivalent to said shittiness. No amount of disingenuous or misleading comparatives are going to change that fact. MS dun fucked up! Now move on and stop trying to defend the steaming pile of shit they've left out for everyone to see. News flash it doesn't smell like roses.
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Wynnebeck said:
Not at all:

I queried further as to why we’re missing out, and Pinchbeck was refreshingly frank:

“So the thinking went like this,” he began. “We don’t have enough money or production expertise to make this game without help. We don’t think we can raise enough through Kickstarter or public alpha to make this happen. We could do with production support on a game this scale. We’ve always wanted to make a console game. Publishers have bad reputations all too often. Hey, Sony Santa Monica are great though. We’ve met them a few times and really like them and their attitude.”

“Also, PS4 is starting to look very cool as a platform. All eggs thrown into singular basket, Sony Santa Monica contacted, everybody likes each other, lots of love for the project. Long dark night of the soul mulling over implications of shifting across to console. Mix of pragmatism and excitement about the possibilities win out.”
Click to expand...

This is what irked PC gamers when the news broke. There would have been far less outrage if the partnership with Sony had followed an unsuccessful call for funding.
 
I

immortal-joe

Member
Wish we'd seen a similar title change for Majestad's Vita thread. You can't make multiple posts bashing a product / decision / action, only to then create a thread acting like the neutral voice of reason to discuss that same product / decision / action. Thank God for post history.
 
P

pixellated_man

Member
alexandros said:
How do you know that? Seriously, how? How do you know that Rise of The Tomb Raider would be the same game without Microsoft's money?
Click to expand...

Do you seriously believe that MS would be pumping substantial money into the development of a game which would be coming out on their competitors systems some months later? I certainly find that hard to comprehend.
 
P

pixellated_man

Member
dragonelite said:
Different deals probably, but same result.
What was stopping The Chinese Room from pitching a kickstarter(?)

We did have SE say they were disappointed in TR sales.
Click to expand...

That statement has since become redundant due to SE recently saying that they are now in fact pleased with the games sales. Looks like the game had long legs and generated a profit in the long run.
 
N

Noshino

Member
JaseC said:
This is what irked PC gamers when the news broke. There would have been far less outrage if the partnership with Sony had followed an unsuccessful call for funding.
Click to expand...

If you know that your game is unlikely to succeed crowd sourcing funds, why lie to yourself and go through with it anyway?

Sure, less outrage and some good will, but at the same time it is a loss. It tells the publisher that the game doesn't have a big enough audience. When negotiating, it gives the publisher the upper hand to ask for more for less.

But from a financial point of view it just makes no sense to start an ill fated kickstarter campaign.
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Noshino said:
If you know that your game is unlikely to succeed crowd sourcing funds, why lie to yourself and go through with it anyway?

Sure, less outrage and some good will, but at the same time it is a loss. It tells the publisher that the game doesn't have a big enough audience.

But from a financial point of view it just makes no sense to start an ill fated kickstarter campaign.
Click to expand...

An assumption is not knowledge, and an interested party isn't going to dismiss a potential exclusive just because it failed its crowdfunding goal -- there's more granular data to observe than just "This game didn't hit $x." Take Flying Hamster 2, for instance, which secured external funding despite a depressing Kickstarter campaign.
 
P

ProfessorMoran

Member
mrklaw said:
Isn't rapture getting support from Sony Santa Monica in the tech side? So definitely exclusive

Personally I doubt the 'development' from MS. All third party games would get an account manager from MS and access to tools and support to ensure things go smoothly. I would guess that the 'development' support is no more than Ms provided for the first tomb raider game. It is just another attempt to obfuscate matters.
Click to expand...
Bububut saviour Phil said they were helping with "development"!
 
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