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[Lister]

Well I'm convinced.

You won't get nearly the same performance as what we know we're getting from Xbox One X out of a $500 PC.

If you've got anything to prove me wrong other than 'Wrong' please post it.

You don't have any evidence to support your side AT ALL. The console isn't even out.

The data that we DO have suggests that console GPU hardware performs, most of the time, as we would expect, given it's specs.

Actually, it doesn't suggest it, it CLEARLY SHOWS that this is the case.

 

[flkraven]

Also, why do people never include labor when doing these tear downs? Last time I checked, consoles aren't like Ikea furniture, packed away with assembly instructions and an allen wrench

 

[Lister]

Also, why do people never include labor when doing these tear downs? Last time I checked, consoles aren't like Ikea furniture, packed away with assembly instructions and an allen wrench

Probably because it would be super speculative. Most of these electronics are put together cheaply by assembly workers in China and other countries with cheap labor. but there's no way to know how much money it takes to put one together.

I mean, there's also R&D and marketing and support, and shipping and getting the assembly lines setup, etc, etc, all of these other things that make the process of actually putting otu a console a pretty expensive endeavour.

 

[tapedeck]

You don't have any evidence to support your side AT ALL. The console isn't even out.

The data that we DO have suggests that console GPU hardware performs, most of the time, as we would expect, given it's specs.

Actually, it doesn't suggest it, it CLEARLY SHOWS that this is the case.

What?

Did you miss the Forza 7 thread where Turn 10 is running the game at NATIVE 4K/locked 60fps..with 30% GPU overhead still available?? That fact alone makes you objectively wrong.

 

[shandy706]

It's impossible to keep all cars snapped into place as per the Scorpio demo, but the evidence seems to suggest we're looking at performance in the same ballpark as an Nvidia GTX 1070-class GPU here and even that can drop frames at ultra settings when wet weather hits. Turn 10's stringent budgeting would ensure that this would never happen in a console release. But the point isn't really about platform comparisons at this very early stage, it's more about how Turn 10 plans to use that power to get more visual return for the console player as opposed to just maxing out quality settings that offer a drastically diminishing visual returns. - Digital Foundry

The only way DF could get a locked 60fps was with a 1080. No that doesn't mean the X1X is on level with a 1080, but you're not getting a cheap PC with the same capabilities right now.

Now consider the fact that Forza 7 looks to be even more demanding (ToD/Weather changes), and is running at 4k/60 on the system..with head room.

You're not beating $500 right now with the same gameplay results.

 

[jmdajr]

Do Mobo's include dolby atmos as a feature? Or do you need a dedicated card? I think HDMI IN is also not so common.

It's all the little things.

 

[Regginator]

BS. Where's the UHD drive? Where's the Pad? Where's the compact chassis?

The key words here are "at least". This article debunks people that say it's cheaper to build a PC with similar specs.

 

[LordRaptor]

Forza 7 is not a benchmark for comparative performance guys. C'mon.

 

[shandy706]

Forza 7 is not a benchmark for comparative performance guys. C'mon.

So now we're going to dismiss games, lol

The test was done with Forza 6 on Xbox One X and PC. It's a perfectly legitimate comparison. We'll get to have more down the road I'm sure. The point of it is that you're NOT getting the same results from a $500 build no matter how hard you try.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

The only way DF could get a locked 60fps was with a 1080. No that doesn't mean the X1X is on level with a 1080, but you're not getting a cheap PC with the same capabilities right now.

Now consider the fact that Forza 7 looks to be even more demanding (ToD/Weather changes), and is running at 4k/60 on the system..with head room.

You're not beating $500 right now with the same gameplay results.

I agree with your bolded statement, but we're gonna need a comparison with multiple games before comparing XB1X to GTX 1070 / 1080. I think it's yet too soon to jump to conclusions right now. But yeah... I don't think you're gonna have a $500 PC equivalent to XB1X, even because that's generally the point of consoles.

 

[LordRaptor]

So now we're going to dismiss games, lol

The test was done with Forza 6 on Xbox One X and PC. It's a perfectly legitimate comparison. We'll get to have more down the road I'm sure. The point of it is that you're NOT getting the same results from a $500 build no matter how hard you try.

Like I said - I'm prepared to bet that by this time next year there will be at least one third party multiplatform title running and looking better in a DF faceoff on their generic PC build than on the XOXO

 

[Clarkus Darkus]

No chance you are building a same spec PC here in the UK for £450 smackaroonies

The XBOX is fantastic value, And will be even more so if you buy it used further down the line like many seem to do in this thread regarding PC parts.

 

[shandy706]

Like I said - I'm prepared to bet that by this time next year there will be at least one third party multiplatform title running and looking better in a DF faceoff on their generic PC build than on the XOXO

Well, I don't disagree that 7+ months after X1X comes out that you may be able to.

My 980Ti runs Forza 6 Apex at nearly locked 60fps in 4k. I see some drops to like 50 at random, but it holds pretty solid most of the time. (that's on ULTRA settings)

 

[Head.spawn]

If you could build it for that price, that size, all the accessories, same quietness, same performance... you'd have to be a fucking wizard. If you could do all that for $600, even that would be amazing. MS would hire you.

 

[Slythe]

To answer the OPs question, no you cannot build a PC equivelant to the Xbox One X's power for $499. However, the Xbox One X is very limited in how many games you have access to (no Steam, no PCs exclusives), functionality (can't be used as a desktop, etc.), and graphic options (developer's preference on issues like framerate). Plus add in $60 a year for online play.

So in that, I don't really think it's a very interesting discussion to have. If you want the most powerful console on the market, One X is it. If you want a true PC gaming experience, One X is not going to fill that void, even at its lower price point.

Edit: I think it's worth noting that if you prefer 60 frames over 4K, PC gaming ends up being cheaper. A moderate PC plus a 60 fps 1080p monitor is going to run ~$1,000. A One X plus a decent sized 4K TV is going to run near ~$1,500. I still think this whole discussion is moot (as I originally mentioned above), but I think this is a relevant factor as raw "power" can have multiple applications.

 

[Lister]

What?

Did you miss the Forza 7 thread where Turn 10 is running the game at NATIVE 4K/locked 60fps..with 30% GPU overhead still available?? That fact alone makes you objectively wrong.

We don't know how that game will perform on PC after optimizations though. That's my point.

The only way DF could get a locked 60fps was with a 1080. No that doesn't mean the X1X is on level with a 1080, but you're not getting a cheap PC with the same capabilities right now.

Now consider the fact that Forza 7 looks to be even more demanding (ToD/Weather changes), and is running at 4k/60 on the system..with head room.

You're not beating $500 right now with the same gameplay results.

This was the same shit said when the PS4 came out, and again when the PS4 Pro came out, an dboth times people saying it were WRONG. The GPU's performed exaclty as we expected them to given their specs in comparison with GPU hardware.

But here we are again. And let's use a SINGLE game that has seen further optimization on the XboneX but not PC, AND for which we cna't be sure about graphics settings comparisons yet either, as though this one anecdote was evidence of anything.

 

[Gestault]

Like I said - I'm prepared to bet that by this time next year there will be at least one third party multiplatform title running and looking better in a DF faceoff on their generic PC build than on the XOXO

I legitimately don't understand what you mean by this. Do you mean their low-end build? If it's not targeted to roughly $500, that seems like a non-sequiter.

 

[LordRaptor]

I legitimately don't understand what you mean by this. Do you mean their low-end build? If it's not targeted to roughly $500, that seems like a non-sequiter.

I'm not putting a price tag on their build, I'm disputing the claims of "coding to the metal" and "look at those SPECS!" being made ITT.
Because I genuinely see no reason why third parties are going to put more effort into supporting the XOXO than the PS4Pro, which makes those claims and most of those specs mostly irrelevant.

 

[mxgt]

I really don't understand why these kind of comparisons keeps needing to be made.

 

[Lister]

I legitimately don't understand what you mean by this. Do you mean their low-end build? If it's not targeted to roughly $500, that seems like a non-sequiter.

Their generic or low end PC build is usually equivalent or slightly under console power test bed.

Remember the 750ti videos? Early in the Ps4's life the weaker 750ti was matchign or BEATING PS4 performancein severla games. Hell, it still does, though textures for modern titles need to be turned down due to the small GPU buffer on those old, entry level cards.

I think their current generic test bed is 960 or 970 based? I forget. They sometimes do performance comparisons with newer entry level cards like the 1050ti and 1060 too.

Some examples: Fallout 4 performing better than Ps4 and Xbone wiht a 750ti build:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iipDWbd6HNg

Here is the 750ti more or less matching or beating the PS4 on several titles, and with a weakger intel CPU than the above i3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxUPJdcChzE

But don't read the comments, they give you cancer.

 

[Gwyn]

Not pc expert here but can all gpu do HDR with drivers update or only new gpus enable that?

 

[jroc74]

If you're saying that you're only going to factor the cost of an upgrade because the money you spent on the existing PC somehow doesn't count then I'm gonna laugh at you.

Also anyone in here posting a parts sheet without a copy of windows in that cost is cheating. And don't tell me you're gonna run Linux. Because you're not. Linux is good for a lot of things. Gaming is not one of them.

Exactly.

The thread title says build, not upgrade.

And not only the OS, even the website that someone posted had 8GB of ram.

I thought we were dong a part for part build to reach $500...

And exchanging the UHD drive for a Windows license as per the OP....Then we really arent building a PC with the same specs... Might as well go for 4GB-6GB of ram too then...

 

[flkraven]

I'm not putting a price tag on their build, I'm disputing the claims of "coding to the metal" and "look at those SPECS!" being made ITT.
Because I genuinely see no reason why third parties are going to put more effort into supporting the XOXO than the PS4Pro, which makes those claims and most of those specs mostly irrelevant.

So you predict that 1 year after release 1 game might look better on PC in a digital foundry breakdown. Such confidence!

 

[Lister]

So you predict that 1 year after release 1 game might look better on PC in a digital foundry breakdown. Such confidence!

That's not what he said.

 

[Lister]

Not pc expert here but can all gpu do HDR with drivers update or only new gpus enable that?

I believe 900 series and above Nvidia cards support HDR. (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[LordRaptor]

So you predict that 1 year after release 1 game might look better on PC in a digital foundry breakdown. Such confidence!

Look and run better.
If the paper specs can't smoke a build with much lower paper specs in everything, then declaring that any comparative PC build must have 8-core Ryzen or whatever is hugely undermined.

 

[irrotational]

As I posted before, comparing the specs is one of the least important areas of difference between PC gaming and console gaming...and even if you do you can't replicate the 1X in terms of performance and you certainly can't get anywhere close when you allow for form factor, quietness and labour costs.

Anyone posting possible builds, or arguments about which gfx card it equates to is completely missing the point

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Don't forget to account for the controller and the tiny form factor of the console. There is no way you can build a comparable PC for $499 when you factor in those two additions.

 

[Joe Condor]

Don't forget a high end monitor

Does the Xbox One X come with a high end 4K HDR display?

 

[ViolentP]

Don't forget to account for the controller and the tiny form factor of the console. There is no way you can build a comparable PC for $499 when you factor in those two additions.

No one forgot as these are things with no relevance to power and far from any level of requirement.

 

[Lister]

As I posted before, comparing the specs is one of the least important areas of difference between PC gaming and console gaming...and even if you do you can't replicate the 1X in terms of performance and you certainly can't get anywhere close when you allow for form factor, quietness and labour costs.

Anyone posting possible builds, or arguments about which gfx card it equates to is completely missing the point

How do you even know how quite the Xbone X is? Jeebus, people. My PC is a hell of a lot quiter than my Xbone S when gaming. It is about twice the size though. As usual this threads relaly aren't about: can you run games as well as X console with Y budget, It's about scoring points in system wars.

Can you do the same performance for $499? We don't knwo for sure yet, but by November? Probably yes.

But does it have UHD blu-ray? No. And the 50 people who care about UHD Blu-ray probably aren't looking to build a PC for this purpose.

But does it have an ultra compact form factor? Not for that price, no. Does the XboneX have the form factor of my Steamlink? Or my Nvidia Shield?

But those cost more!! Well yeah, and so will an XboneX during it's lifetime over a PC build.

I don't think anyone is disputing the value the XboneX offers as a media center device. If UHD blu-ray is super important to you, if form factor and TV gaming is super important to you, and you are unwilling to pay more for it, then an Xbone offers tremendous value. I don't think anyone can dispute that.

If all you care about is performance, well PC is going to do it better, stop trying to say otherwise. Even just the fact that YOU get to decide what compromises a particular game makes to reach whatever resolution or performance level you want (vs developers deciding for you) makes it the superior platform where graphics or performance is the key.

Of course if that's all you care about, you're a strange gamer.

I care about PC gaming because of it's ginourmous library of games, many of which not available on the Xbone. And because of mods and superior VOIP, graphics options, etc, etc.

Now I know where the superior media center experience is at. Which is why I own an Xbone S for all my 4K TV viewing entertainment. But my games are all powered by my PC.

 

[Jumeira]

Dont think using poor quality (but cheap) parts to bring down costs is valid either, should be of equal quality to the X.

Looks like a resounding no.

 

[ViolentP]

Dont think using poor quality (but cheap) parts to bring down costs is valid either, should be of equal quality to the X.

Looks like a resounding no.

What exactly is the level of quality of the components in the X?

 

[jmdajr]

]Don't forget to account for the controller[/B] and the tiny form factor of the console. There is no way you can build a comparable PC for $499 when you factor in those two additions.

Lol. Man I forget about that. Fucking 60 dollar retail.

 

[Grief.exe]

You probably could get there for $600. Potentially even cut some corners by including a slightly worse GPU, but that ground is made up by the increased CPU.

Dont think using poor quality (but cheap) parts to bring down costs is valid either, should be of equal quality to the X.

Looks like a resounding no.

You don't think Microsoft is maximizing their return?

 

[Jumeira]

What exactly is the level of quality of the components in the X?

I doubt MS used the absolute cheapest option that some are trying to push here, dont see how thats controversial to say.

You don't think Microsoft is maximizing their return?

Ofcourse, but repairs factor into that metric, so prioritising quality over cost seems sensible, also infers its not the cheapest option

 

[ViolentP]

I doubt MS used the absolute cheapest option that some are trying to push here, dont see how thats controversial to say.

So you are ok making the assumption that the PC build would be using cheap components while simultaneously assuming that Microsoft is not, all without any real evidence. And you ask why it's controversial to say?

 

[irrotational]

How do you even know how quite the Xbone X is? Jeebus, people. My PC is a hell of a lot quiter than my Xbone S when gaming. It is about twice the size though.

As usual this threads relaly aren't about can you run games as well as X console with Y budget, It's about scoring points in system wars.

Can you do the same performance for $499?

We don't knwo for sure yet, but by November? Probably yes.

But doe sit have UHD blu-ray? No. The 50 people who care about UHD Blu-ray probably aren;t looking to build a PC for this purpose.

But does it have an ultra compact form factor? Not for that price, no. Does the XboneX have the form factor of my Steamlink? Or my Nvidia Shield?

But those cost more!! Well yeah, and so will an XboneX during it's lifetime over a PC build.

I don't think anyone is disputing the value the XboneX offers as a media center device. If UHD blu-ray is super important to you, if form factor and TV gamign is super important to you, then an Xbone offers tremendous value.

If all you care baout is performance, well PC is going to do it better, stop trying to say otherwise. Even just the fact that YOU get to decide what compromises a particular game makes to reach whatever resolution or performance level you want makes it the superior platform where graphics or performance is the key.

Of course if that's all you care about, you're a strange gamer.

I care baout PC gmaing because of it's ginourmous library of games, many of which not available on the Xbone. And because of mods and superior VOIP, graphics options, etc, etc.

Everyone says it's quiet My day 1 Xbox is basically silent, I've certainly never heard it in my living room. I also have a PC that's as quiet, but the box is roughly 3 times the volume of the xbone, and probably 4 times the volume of the 1X.

Powerful, quiet AND small is really hard...i.e. expensive...you're trying to beat physics.

As you rightly say, the main points of difference are nothing to do with hardware and everything to do with games, friends, choice versus simplicity etc.

 

[Ushay]

Still not seeing any lists with equivalent price and performance guys.

There is no denying it.

 

[Gestault]

But don't read the comments, they give you cancer.

lol, here here!

 

[Jumeira]

So you are ok making the assumption that the PC build would be using cheap components while simultaneously assuming that Microsoft is not, all without any real evidence. And you ask why it's controversial to say?

MS are mass producing these so making an assumption on quality to ensure these things last seem reasonable dont you say? If it came to cheapest parts or pay a little more for quality i believe MS would pay a little more. RROD for 360 taught them that. Also, my understanding for this thread is people taking it upon themselves to personally spec out and make an equivalent machine but some are suggesting getting the cheapest components which i dont think meets the criteria of being equivalent, confidence in the build is also a factor.

 

[Gestault]

So you are ok making the assumption that the PC build would be using cheap components while simultaneously assuming that Microsoft is not, all without any real evidence. And you ask why it's controversial to say?

Actually, comparing a collection of components to make a system yourself has a lot more failure points than a standardized build for a marketed product. And if this really is a concern about the end-product, the warranty and customer support for the latter is probably more reassuring to most.

I get what you're saying, but I can't quite agree. A standardized system is engineered for fewer quality variables and better QC.

[There's a big asterisk around all this that I'm talking about for a meanstream buyer. I know most of us have a good sense of which "cheap" brands are actually excellent, and which to avoid, which makes a custom build pretty simple.]

 

[Lister]

lol, here here!

Discussions on GAF cna get heated, and occasionally PC gamers and console gamers say stupid things. Myself included. But those comments are on another level of crazy on both sides.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Not really, but who builds a PC for console gaming parody?

 

[Kaffeemann]

It's ridiculous to discuss the price of a PC that's equivalent to the OneX right now because the console will be released in more than four months.

AMD Vega series will release soon which might bring down prices for all GPUs. And of course there's the general downward trend of all hardware prices.

 

[FairFriend]

A few things to consider, imo:

1) The console is going to be released in a few months. By then prices of certain components may have gone down a little bit.

2) While for the same price you might not be able to build a pc that achieves the same level of performance at 4k, by balancing the money spent on cpu and gpu you could perhaps build a rig that achieves better frame rates in those scenario where the cpu is the bottleneck (when playing games at 1080p, for instance). Nowadays and old fx-8350 costs less than 100 euros (at least here in Italy), and that should perform significantly better than the Jaguar inside the Xbox One X

 

[GodofWine]

A few things to consider, imo:

1) The console is going to be released in a few months. By then prices of certain components may have gone down a little bit.

Yep, and also consider they will use these exact parts, for years. A $500 console at launch may be a money loser, but the same console a year later is probably a money maker, and that same console 3 years later at $399 is probably a money maker etc etc.

Try to build a g4620/rx580 equivalent (or whatever the equivalents are) combo today, next year, the next year, and the next year. You might need to change the parts because PC parts tend to rise in price due to weird supply/demand issues later in their life, but in 3 years a Rx760 may be a 580 equivalent at $100. Its really hard to figure out how to compare a PC to a console.

 

[Clarkus Darkus]

Not really, but who builds a PC for console gaming parody?

As iv'e always been a console gamer, Surely the PC owners want to outdo console specs, As it's hardly night & day difference anymore between comparisons. My cousin has an uber PC, But only plays football manager and now Dragon Age origins.

But point is, If i was a PC gamer, The last thing i would want is a console powered PC.

 

[SapientWolf]

I really don't understand why these kind of comparisons keeps needing to be made.

Historically, a well designed console will out perform a similarly priced PC at launch. It's a good litmus test for the XBX.

The problem here is that the XBX is ludicrously GPU heavy. It makes it hard to do an apples to apples comparison with a gaming PC someone would actually build.

 

[Nostremitus]

Historically, a well designed console will out perform a similarly priced PC at launch. It's a good litmus test for the XBX.

The problem here is that the XBX is ludicrously GPU heavy. It makes it hard to do an apples to apples comparison with a gaming PC someone would actually build.

It's not ludicrously GPU heavy.

It ridiculously CPU bottlenecked. The CPU is the outlier that doesn't match up with the rest of the system.

Basically, any games that have stuttering due to CPU limitations on regular Xbox One will most likely have the same issues on the XboneX.

The IPC didn't change, just the frequency. The CPU has to send commands to the GPU through the API for everything it does. These are called draw calls.

From the Unity manual:

To draw a GameObject on the screen, the engine has to issue a draw call to the graphics API (such as OpenGL or Direct3D). Draw calls are often resource-intensive, with the graphics API doing significant work for every draw call, causing performance overhead on the CPU side.

So, when actually trying to make use of all that GPU power the CPU has to work even harder. I just don't see any reasonable frequency increase that could make Jaguar cores perform at a level that would allow full use of the GPU... Expect stuttering/ bad frame pacing if they try.