I think there's also the fact that Bayonetta, even before marketing kicked into high gear, had A LOT more hype surrounding it than Vanquish did. From the moment it was unveiled, Bayoneeta had hardcore gamers talking about while many thought Vanquish looked generic and uninteresting. Even the OT thread on GAF was pretty lifeless for the most part.
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Is it strange Bayonetta outsold Vanquish?
- Thread starter CartridgeBlower
- Start date
TheChillyAcademic
Member
Well, Bayonetta is a better game so....
There's that.
There's that.
MomoPufflet
Member
duckroll said:
I would pay $80~800 for robot missile dog DLC. They don't even have to animate the dog; just have a floating mass of unshaded, vaguely dog-shaped polygons shooting pixel missiles and one of the programmers say "woof desu" as a sound effect placeholder when he moves. Why doesn't platinum games want my money?
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I think with some tweaking of main characters, villains and setting both could have sold big time with a quality marketing push.
sixteen-bit
Member
just play dead 2 rights and pretendMomoPufflet said:
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
If these games had been first party published, they would have easily sold 3 million each.
sixteen-bit
Member
If you think they'd sell as well ad first-party mass market games like Infamous and Fable 2 you're mad.Dr. Kitty Muffins said:
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
_dementia said:
I've played them. I know better.
TheKaeptain
Banned
If you would have paid attention, even people that were not impressed with the first demo, changed their minds after the challenge demo.Zeouterlimits said:
Can't see how you thought the game was boring. It's so pumped full of energy that I had an adrenaline rush. If you thought it was boring you're the problem not the game. the game doesn't let up and keeps pushing the player.
CartridgeBlower said:
"Witch with glasses kicking people with guns" stands out a lot more then "Beefy dude in space armor"
CaptYamato said:
I played through the first demo and it just felt like a difficult slog.. not "hard" just.. the boss had so many hp, I actually ran out of available ammo before his health went down. Is the 2nd demo better than that at that?
FlashbladeGAF
Member
sixteen-bit
Member
sales potential/mass-appeal != qualityDr. Kitty Muffins said:
FlashbladeGAF
Member
webrunner said:
You were just not familiar with what the game had to offer. Depending on the weapons and strategy you used you could have taken out the boss in less than a minute.
5 minute speed run
You didnt need to be a pro or to use this exact strategy to do it. You could have used the turrets to take it out or you could use ARS mode to give you more time to line up your shots. or you could have used the walking mechs.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Bayonetta didn't even chart in the top 10 on Jan 2010's NPDs despite releasing on the 5th. But the word of mouth has been positive so it had steady sales, which allowed it to break 1.5 million earlier this year. Vanquish sales are likely going to follow a similar pattern.Chris1964 said:
I also think people throw the term bomb around a little too casually.
rollingstart
Banned
Vanquish seems to be another polarizing game in the same way that Crysis is. People that play it the same way as other games (straight run-and-gun shooter for Crysis; Gears of War for Vanquish) aren't as into as those who were able to understand the unique mechanics and make their own style of playing. Similarly, people who haven't played either game often have ignorant criticism because the videos don't really capture the unique ways people play them.
Bayonetta is easier to grasp. It's an action game in the style of Devil May Cry games, which makes considering the talent behind it. There is less (bad wording here) "work" you need to put in to see why it is so much fun. You can play through the Vanquish demo like Gears of War and be fine, so it isn't apparently that there is more to it. The challenge mode did a better job at showing why you'd need to use all your abilities, but I don't even know if that was released in America.
That said, I'm down for Kamiya making Vanquish 2. Kamiya making the sequel to a Mikami game turned out awesome in the past.
Bayonetta is easier to grasp. It's an action game in the style of Devil May Cry games, which makes considering the talent behind it. There is less (bad wording here) "work" you need to put in to see why it is so much fun. You can play through the Vanquish demo like Gears of War and be fine, so it isn't apparently that there is more to it. The challenge mode did a better job at showing why you'd need to use all your abilities, but I don't even know if that was released in America.
That said, I'm down for Kamiya making Vanquish 2. Kamiya making the sequel to a Mikami game turned out awesome in the past.
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
SapientWolf said:
chris1964 said:
GAF, I am confused.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Wolves Evolve said:
I know, right? It looks and plays well.
BobsRevenge
I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
Exactly. What made me love the Vanquish demo is that I felt like I did when playing the Crysis demo. That I had real choices in how I completed things, and that the route I would take and what I would do wasn't being directed so much. It still relatively straight-forward, but the mechanics open the gameplay up wider than most games trust to the player.Linkzg said:
I just wish the melee was treated as a more viable combat technique.
I haven't bought the game yet, but the gameplay from just the first demo (I played the second one too, but I won't regard it here) blows away pretty much every other TPS out there and sets a higher standard for the whole genre. Crysis did the same for the FPS.
â Narayan
Member
It is, if you use it properly.BobsRevenge said:
EDIT: Oh. More viable? It's a shooting game, not a brawler.
BobsRevenge
I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
I never figured it out. I was boosting up to people and using it and it'd drain my shit immediately. The tutorial didn't really say anything about it except that it will destroy your energy reserves almost instantly if you do use it.
If I used it it was only on the last dude in a group and only for the flashiness of it.
Imagine a combined God Hand+Vanquish.
I don't know how it is possible, but water flows from me uncontrollable at the thought.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
What most people don't realize is that the 1.1 mil number that Sega was tossing around in February only covered sales through Dec 31st 2009, when the game was only available in Japan. Jan NPD put it at 1.3 and it debuted in the top 5 in the UK, which easily gives it 1.5 before the Spring.Chris1964 said:
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Chris1964 said:
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/02/05/bayonetta-moves-1-1-million-units-in-sega-fiscal-q3-2010-results/
Here are the official Sega Sammy financial statements up to March 31st, 2010.
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/20100514_hosoku_e_final.pdf
Bayo is listed as selling 1.35.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
BobsRevenge said:
The tutorial tells you every weapon has a different melee attack.
For example the Heavy Machine gun's melee attack is a flip kick that knocks the target into the air.
If you are hiding behind cover and you want to use slow mo to take out targets, but dont necessarily want to jump out of cover, you can just do the HMG melee attack to do the flip kick. Then, while in the air, you can go into slo mo, take out the targets and land safely back into cover.
Its not necessarily what you want but there are other uses to the melee techniques than just brawling
chriskun
Member
Rez said:
I think its a factor, the thread title is "Is it strange Bayonetta outsold Vanquish?", not "How come Bayonetta did COD numbers and Vanquish didn't??" because neither of these games did those numbers. These games sell to a very hardcore niche audience. The types of people who go onto video game forums and argue whether DMC or Ninja Gaiden had a better battlesystem, and have avatars of Japanese pop Idols. I think alot of people may have known that Bayonetta was made by the guy who made DMC, I'm pretty sure they focused on it in the marketing as well. The only big game mikami has under his belt is RE, which is a very slow paced shooter/survival horror, doesn't translate to Vanquish. And no Godhand does not count, even most of these "aware consumers" don't give a fuck about that game.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Ok, even assuming that this is shipped and not sold, and the 1.1 mil includes the initial NA, EU, and AU shipments they still managed another 250k after that. That would be pretty hard to do if they already stuffed the channel. There was also no Bionic Commando-esque price collapse that would indicate that stores had problems moving copies in the intervening 9 months.Chris1964 said:
I think your position is really weak based on the evidence, so you either have inside information about the actual sales (which would fit your tag) or you're wrong in saying that Bayo didn't sell anywhere near 1.5 mil (which would also fit your tag).
badcrumble
Member
I used boost much, much more than I used slow motion, and that's clearly the mechanic that really sets Vanquish apart.Astery said:
FlashbladeGAF
Member
RSLAEV said:
wha?
Using the weapons, the boost and the timing of the slow mo is the exact same mentality you had for Bayonetta. Why are you not carrying that over into Vanquish.
Like Bayonetta Vanquish is at its best when your pushing yourself to the limits in dispatching your foes as efficiently and as flashy/fast as possible.
Apply the same focus into Vanquish like you did for Bayonetta and you'll be rewarded
Bayonetta also punished you for not playing as efficiently as possible. If you mashed the buttons and didnt pay attention to the timing of your techniques you got your ass handed to you... unless you were on casual auto.
badcrumble said:
yea, i like to boost sliding around enemies while shooting at them, which it will auto go into slow motion. If multiplayer is implemented (and taking out the slow mo), I don't think it's possible to aim with such speed, while the other player is boosting as well.:lol
I disagree, I think footage from the train level of Vanquish alone could really make people go 'holy shit'. If given an ad campaign on the level that first-parties bring, it could definitely have been a pretty big deal. The game is way better-looking than either of those games, nevermind juggernauts like GTA or CoD, and 'it looks amazing' is the best weapon you can have for a TV ad._dementia said:
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I loved the Bayonetta launch trailer, featuring La Roux; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L8-KZhW04s
I don't own Vanquish, mostly because I think it looks stupid. It's like Lost Planet, but with a even more crappy story.
Bayonetta was so bad that it was good. But like anyone who is a fan of bad movies will tell you, not all bad movies are so bad/bad enough, to be hilarious to watch.
But maybe I will try it one day though. I thought Resident Evil 4 was really boring and tame as well, so maybe it's just his style.
When RE4 came out, the only thing that was on my mind was Ninja Gaiden. Not being able to move while shooting has to be the cheapest f**king gimmick ever to create suspense/tension. I'll take survival horror games where the enemies spawn out of nothing in the corner of a room over that lame RE4 QTE combat.
None of this is as faulty as Leons hair. That character is the worst designed character in humanity. They could have replaced him with Tingle, and he would have had a more bad ass factor than Leon. At least they could have gone for a subplot halfway through where Tingle tries to molest the presidents daughter. That would at least have been believeable and interesting.
Mikami is just annoying to me. Van reminds me of N03... But I never got around to playing that, which was a shame.
But Bayonetta is so good. Dodging in slow-mo, is so nice. Its like orgasmic. I love being rewarded for playing offensive with a defensive aspect. *sexy slurp all the way to church*
I don't own Vanquish, mostly because I think it looks stupid. It's like Lost Planet, but with a even more crappy story.
Bayonetta was so bad that it was good. But like anyone who is a fan of bad movies will tell you, not all bad movies are so bad/bad enough, to be hilarious to watch.
But maybe I will try it one day though. I thought Resident Evil 4 was really boring and tame as well, so maybe it's just his style.
When RE4 came out, the only thing that was on my mind was Ninja Gaiden. Not being able to move while shooting has to be the cheapest f**king gimmick ever to create suspense/tension. I'll take survival horror games where the enemies spawn out of nothing in the corner of a room over that lame RE4 QTE combat.
None of this is as faulty as Leons hair. That character is the worst designed character in humanity. They could have replaced him with Tingle, and he would have had a more bad ass factor than Leon. At least they could have gone for a subplot halfway through where Tingle tries to molest the presidents daughter. That would at least have been believeable and interesting.
Mikami is just annoying to me. Van reminds me of N03... But I never got around to playing that, which was a shame.
But Bayonetta is so good. Dodging in slow-mo, is so nice. Its like orgasmic. I love being rewarded for playing offensive with a defensive aspect. *sexy slurp all the way to church*
sixteen-bit
Member
You could always skip the cutscenes if you wish.Vigilant Walrus said:
Vigilant Walrus
Member
_dementia said:
True. And you know what, I am double morale contradicting, shiteating son of a gun, because I love Metal Gear Series, and I know half the world cant take that shit seriously either.
So in truth I got no right to open my mind about Vanquish plot. I praise NG too but forget to remember how dense that plot was.
I'll try Vanquish. Thanks mate
sixteen-bit
Member
DOES THE PATH TO ZARKHAN TRULY EXIST?Vigilant Walrus said:
I decided to pick up Vanquish as part of the amazon buy 2 get 1 free deal, dunno how I feel about it. The game looks very bland to be honest. A lot of white and gray to the environments, but I'm still on the level and stage 3 I think. Maybe it gets better? Hasn't wowed me so far.
Bayonetta, on the other hand, wowed me from the beginning. From the way the game looks to how it plays. Even Bayonetta herself is a cool character to control. To me Vanquish feels a little too samey in the world of shooters, whereas Bayonetta felt like a more unique experience. This might have to do with the sales, as Bayonetta seems like the more interesting title.
Bayonetta, on the other hand, wowed me from the beginning. From the way the game looks to how it plays. Even Bayonetta herself is a cool character to control. To me Vanquish feels a little too samey in the world of shooters, whereas Bayonetta felt like a more unique experience. This might have to do with the sales, as Bayonetta seems like the more interesting title.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Mrbob said:
Vanquish's enjoyment depends on how you play the game.
If you play it like most shooters your not gonna get much out of it aside from the set pieces. The real joy is in combining everything at your disposal to take out as many of the enemies you can while keeping your boost/ARS gauge from depleting
Basic Strategy
And then when you get used to everything, you can kick it up a notch and do it as fast as possible
Speed Run
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
Only a matter of weeks now until Vanquish bombas down to under £20!