I felt like the Sonic Advance series of GBA games were pretty damn good, not my favorites but some of the better games when compared to shadow or heroes. Fun momentum-based stuff and pretty much the entire cast of characters minus dialogue and silly story stuff.
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Is Sonic a joke to you?
- Thread starter Jonneh3003
- Start date
I felt like the Sonic Advance series of GBA games were pretty damn good, not my favorites but some of the better games when compared to shadow or heroes. Fun momentum-based stuff and pretty much the entire cast of characters minus dialogue and silly story stuff.
Already Torn
Banned
Yeah, I think that's pretty obvious. All of his best games and songs are good because of how bad they are ("Yo this is Knuckles" "Where is that DAMN chaos emerald?"), he was originally created as some joke about the power of Sega's processing to make fun of Mario, and the current marketing line really plays on the fact that he's a giant joke that we all go along with.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I have actually spent an unnecessary amount of time trying to figure out what was up with Halverson's Sonic 2006 review.
As near as I can tell, Halverson was so eager to get an early review that Sega came over and let him play a build.
Moreover, Halverson wrote the review as if all those things weren't there. He decided the controls would be fixed, the performance would tighten up, etc. There is no reason to assume these things except that Halverson apparently just wanted them to be true.
Of course, now we know that the "early build" Halverson got was, in fact, the retail build. He tried in later months to take the score of the game down, but I think he ultimately ended at a 6? Not sure of the exact number, just that it was still too high.
snoopeasystreet
Member
Sonic fandom is the best worst thing on the internet. Take that as you will.
Astral Dog
Member
Sonic Heroes and Unleashed are both deeply flawed games, handhelds got worse now with 3DS.
But you are right, there are many good to great (!) Sonic games if you look for them since then
The Advance games are fun, charming and polished games for example.
Aeriscloud
Banned
It deserves even less respect than it gets.
This is so bad that is good music?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eODArFqHbf0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEGro4NpgCg
Also, there's good games. If Sonic was as popular as it was it's because his games were good (talking about the Mega Drive era).
Also, he was created to rival Mario, not to make fun of him.
I was a total Sonic fanboy back when that review dropped. I used to herald that shit like it was the gospel. I genuinely enjoyed Sonic 2006 when I first played it, no lie. I used to be so dedicated, so deluded hahaha.
It's been much longer than that. The "joke" era is now longer than the "respectable brand" era. The simple answer here is that the number of bad Sonic games vastly outnumber the good games.
Personally speaking, I loved the Genesis games, but could never get into any of the 3D games. There's been a few games that surprised me along the way (Colors, Generations, even All-Stars Racing Transformed but I'm not sure that counts?), but there's something about the character's look, movement, and gameplay in 3D spaces that is deeply unappealing at a fundamental level.
snoopeasystreet
Member
To be fair, I don't think there's anyone who plays video games that wouldn't like to see an amazing Sonic game. Not that I think it'll ever happen. The fan base has accepted and glorified mediocrity for far too long.
No matter what game you make, you basically have kids and Sonic fans on lock and that's enough to be profitable.
No matter what game you make, you basically have kids and Sonic fans on lock and that's enough to be profitable.
Always-honest
Banned
Yes. Great mascotte, donkey-ass games.
The first ones were kinda nice.
The first ones were kinda nice.
BabyFaceKillah
Member
yes
I honestly don't think k sonics games are bad but I think the concept of sonic is bad. I forgot who said it but basically sonic hasn't been novel since S3&K and the concept just isn't great anymore. I love the games and have all of them in multiple versions but they are pretty shallow.
Diprosalic
Banned
sonic at his very best is average.
Council Pop
Member
The Game Gear was my first system, and Sonic 2 (8 bit) and Sonic Chaos my first games, so I have a soft spot for Sonic, even though it was impossible to get past the first zone in Sonic 2.
However.... I'm not that sure if they were ever great games. They were really FUN, especially compared to the dry and challenging yet formulaic early Mario games. But they don't really stand up in a game design way.
Plus I think that a 3D Sonic game took far too long to actually arrive. By the time Sonic Adventure was released, we'd had 4 years of 3D platformers, and the rules of that genre had been fully established- Sonic Adventure just took bits from Spyro, Crash, Mario, Banjo etc, with a few on-rails 'fast' sections. Sega was never able to create something that worked specifically for Sonic.
In terms of the fanbase, and this may have already been mentioned on the thread, there is a particularly important thing to note: there is a big community of autistic spectrum disorder Sonic fans. I'm not sure exactly why this has happened, but it is a really great and positive thing, butsadly I think a lot of the time the mocking of Sonic fans is a way for people to mock those who have an ASD/Aspergers etc. Safe spaces and safe fandoms for people who are not only autistic, but who explicitly want to talk about it (as many Sonic fans do) is really important, and I wouldn't want to belittle that, ever, even if some of the fan art etc can be very bizarre.
However.... I'm not that sure if they were ever great games. They were really FUN, especially compared to the dry and challenging yet formulaic early Mario games. But they don't really stand up in a game design way.
Plus I think that a 3D Sonic game took far too long to actually arrive. By the time Sonic Adventure was released, we'd had 4 years of 3D platformers, and the rules of that genre had been fully established- Sonic Adventure just took bits from Spyro, Crash, Mario, Banjo etc, with a few on-rails 'fast' sections. Sega was never able to create something that worked specifically for Sonic.
In terms of the fanbase, and this may have already been mentioned on the thread, there is a particularly important thing to note: there is a big community of autistic spectrum disorder Sonic fans. I'm not sure exactly why this has happened, but it is a really great and positive thing, butsadly I think a lot of the time the mocking of Sonic fans is a way for people to mock those who have an ASD/Aspergers etc. Safe spaces and safe fandoms for people who are not only autistic, but who explicitly want to talk about it (as many Sonic fans do) is really important, and I wouldn't want to belittle that, ever, even if some of the fan art etc can be very bizarre.
Mr Waluigi
Banned
Not at all. Sonic has had some rough moments during the 6th gen and beginning of 7th gen but otherwise it's been doing very well in my opinion (disregarding spin-offs like Sonic Boom or Sonic and the Whatever Thing). As far as main series console titles go, I am in love with all of them but Heroes and '06 (because of the terrible controls and design choices; and the glitches).
I hate the Chao Gardens though. Waste of time that prevents me from getting all emblems in SA2. Fuck.
I hate the Chao Gardens though. Waste of time that prevents me from getting all emblems in SA2. Fuck.
Captain Europe
Member
Sonic is better than Mario when he's in his highs(S3&K, Sonic Generations) IMO. Sonic Team is capable of making great games, it's Sega who devalued the brand with the way they handled it. Let's hope the next one is good.
Yes. Let's face it, Sonic was never good. I've never had a Sage console, so the first time I've played a Sonic game was few years ago. I've tried basically all the games that are considered classics. 1-3 and K, Sonic Advance 1-3, Adventure 2, Colors on both Wii and DS, Generations and Racing All-Stars. None of them were good. They've ranged from shit to mediocre. There are infinitely better platformers/kart racers on almost every platform. It's not near anywhere other mascot platformers. And let's not start on the fanbase... *shivers*
I wouldn't say average at best, but this is close to how I feel. Even Sonic 2 and 3&Knuckles, which most consider his golden age, aren't particularly impressive games. They're good, but nowhere even near being among the best of its genre. There are far better platformers out there.
Of course, the fans are free to disagree and I did enjoy his games a great deal back when I was a child, but nowadays I just think it's an ok series from time to time. Mostly bad in the last 10 years or so.
The honest truth is I got a bit burned out playing mediocre/decent games, I didn't even try the bad ones.
Generations is supposedly good but I didn't like it.
I think a lot of Sonic fans look for "hey it's playable and you get to run!" as a decider of quality. I'm simplifying a lot, but I do think a certain subset will be very happy as long as the game is okay.
Generations is supposedly good but I didn't like it.
I think a lot of Sonic fans look for "hey it's playable and you get to run!" as a decider of quality. I'm simplifying a lot, but I do think a certain subset will be very happy as long as the game is okay.
As I stated, they range from serviceable to awful.
Serviceable is not particularly booty, but Sonic is an IP that has strangely not even gotten close to hitting any of the peaks it did during the Genesis days, making it stand out very strangely among platformer IPs today. It has the impression it exists because of nostalgia, not so much "knocking it out of the park" as it were. One can look at some Mario games post-NES and proclaim they're the absolute best the series can offer. You cannot really do the same for Sonic post-Genesis.
And mind you I do not say that with mockery, for S3&K is one of my top three favorite games, period. I can acknowledge the sheer excellence of this franchise, which makes the constant incapability of truly recapturing it all the more frustrating. I guess this is what Crash or Spyro fans feel post-PS1 games.
I'd disagree with that. I found Lost World and Sonic 4 to be just okay. Like, they're playable but I have no desire to keep going back to them. But I always see the consensus on them being very low. Granted, Sonic 4 has the bonus appeal of being a huge crushing disappointment but I think Generations is offering a lot of unique things that make it worth playing. For example the environmental hazards in the 2D stages like the huge truck that destroys the level were cool, and the only other recent 2.5D platformer I've found with equally great looking and exciting level set pieces was DK Tropical Freeze.
I get why some people don't like them, but I also think that most people who like Generations don't only play Sonic platformers so I like to think the game gets judged fairly.
Theanine3D
Member
It's not a joke to me, but they haven't given me reason to care about it in a long time. I just ignore the games or products I don't like (ie. anything Boom related) so they don't impact my overall opinion of the franchise.
I didn't like Generations as much as everyone else either. It felt like a 2D Sonic most of the time (I prefer 3D Sonic) and most of the 3D segments might as well have been on-rails (/snore). I also didn't grow up with the Genesis games so the nostalgia pandering in that game didn't do much for me.
Still waiting for a Sonic Adventure 3 with a return of Chao Gardens.
I didn't like Generations as much as everyone else either. It felt like a 2D Sonic most of the time (I prefer 3D Sonic) and most of the 3D segments might as well have been on-rails (/snore). I also didn't grow up with the Genesis games so the nostalgia pandering in that game didn't do much for me.
Still waiting for a Sonic Adventure 3 with a return of Chao Gardens.
As I stated, they range from serviceable to awful.
Serviceable is not particularly booty, but Sonic is an IP that has strangely not even gotten close to hitting any of the peaks it did during the Genesis days, making it stand out very strangely among platformer IPs today. It has the impression it exists because of nostalgia, not so much "knocking it out of the park" as it were. One can look at some Mario games post-NES and proclaim they're the absolute best the series can offer. You cannot really do the same for Sonic post-Genesis.
And mind you I do not say that with mockery, for S3&K is one of my top three favorite games, period. I can acknowledge the sheer excellence of this franchise, which makes the constant incapability of truly recapturing it all the more frustrating. I guess this is what Crash or Spyro fans feel post-PS1 games.
I disagree, personally I feel the Modern Trilogy (Unleashed, Colors and Generations) are good-great games that match up with the Genesis games. Many might disagree and I understand, but that is how I personally feel.
I appreciate that you explained yourself though; honestly really nice of you and thank you for making good discussion relating to the series instead of just simply saying 'It sucks' like some like to do at times.
The Modern Games have issues and lack that Nintendo polish that the Genesis games have, which is why I think so many hold those with such high regards (and I agree with that). They are Nintendo-quality games and were a good example of some damn good platforming action back then.
Sonic tries to reach that and they came close with Colors for me; that game had honestly little issue outside of a lack of major 3D platforming. Either way, thank you for the discussion and hope to talk with you about the Sonic franchise in the future
.HyperCroutons
Member
Im a huge sonic fan, sonic 3 and knuckles is one of my favorite games of all time but Sega is the one that made Sonic into a joke. They were more focus on the merchandising of sonic than actually making good sonic games in my opinion. Yea they made some good ones since the sega genesis days like colors and generations but most of them either sucked or had good ideas but werent executed very well.
I liked the adventure and heros games when they came out but playing them now i realize they are not very good games.
I liked the adventure and heros games when they came out but playing them now i realize they are not very good games.
Telephone Man
Member
Couldn't disagree more, and you're not gonna make anyone change their minds with something as blunt as that.
But I will say that Sonic's lows definitely outweight its highs. What good quality the franchise has/had just isn't enough to justify caring about it in 2016.
Yeah. It's strange seeing some here recommend some mediocre-at-best games, thinking this will convert the "haters".
Generations, Colors, Advance 1-3, Rush 1-2. Sure.
Adventure 1-2, Heroes, 4. What?
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
Sonic the Werehog. Sonic and the Black Knights.
idk it's all hilarious. Like the Twilight community had a picnic with the Sonic community level fanfiction. Then Sonic Boom...
Sure, there were some good games in between, but I didn't play due to the series having already shat the bed and my $$$ wasn't going to seeing if they had redeemed themselves. I'll try now that I got 75% of the series on Humble Bundle.
idk it's all hilarious. Like the Twilight community had a picnic with the Sonic community level fanfiction. Then Sonic Boom...
Sure, there were some good games in between, but I didn't play due to the series having already shat the bed and my $$$ wasn't going to seeing if they had redeemed themselves. I'll try now that I got 75% of the series on Humble Bundle.
I really liked Heroes and don't find that to be mediocre, so that is why I listed it before.
I disagree, personally I feel the Modern Trilogy (Unleashed, Colors and Generations) are good-great games that match up with the Genesis games. Many might disagree and I understand, but that is how I personally feel.
I appreciate that you explained yourself though; honestly really nice of you and thank you for making good discussion relating to the series instead of just simply saying 'It sucks' like some like to do at times.
The Modern Games have issues and lack that Nintendo polish that the Genesis games have, which is why I think so many hold those with such high regards (and I agree with that). They are Nintendo-quality games and were a good example of some damn good platforming action back then.
Sonic tries to reach that and they came close with Colors for me; that game had honestly little issue outside of a lack of major 3D platforming. Either way, thank you for the discussion and hope to talk with you about the Sonic franchise in the future
I will say that Colors has been the closest attempt at capturing that spirit, and it's not because the Chaos Emerald stages take Sonic 1 level design in places.
I will say that Colors has been the closest attempt at capturing that spirit, and it's not because the Chaos Emerald stages take Sonic 1 level design in places.
I liked that about Colors too; the special stages (Game Land levels) are a lot of fun and were a nice way to re-play older Sonic levels in a new way.
But the game as a whole was a damn good time that I honestly had little to no issues with.
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
I will say that Colors has been the closest attempt at capturing that spirit, and it's not because the Chaos Emerald stages take Sonic 1 level design in places.
Colors seems cool. I'll play it soon. Has a Mario Galaxy thing going for it.
SkylineRKR
Member
This is not so weird. I had these things happen as well. When I played an early piece of Haze, it wasn't out yet and I recommended it. Because I was sure the AI and other things would surely be fixed. I felt glimpses of the trademark Free Radical gameplay and based my hype on that (I looked forward to it ever since it was announced), and I was assured the finished product wouldn't be shit since it was FRD.
I didn't know the full game was identical, had a shitshow of a story, the worst dialogues and characters ever, unfair mechanics and was just a broken mess. I finished the game and absolutely hate it.
petethepanda
Member
I'm not angry at you, Sonic, I'm just disappointed.
SkylineRKR
Member
I thought Generations was mediocre at best but I played it on Ps3 at 30fps and with input lag.
I checked out when the lore became some kind of focus. Everything after 3&K was too much for me, and even Knuckles was pushing it a bit.
I think the final straw was when I went over to a friends house on 9/9/99 to try out Sonic Adventure and then everyone started talking in the most annoying voices possible and the other characters started showing up... I completely checked out at that point. Went home and jumped back into FF8
I will say though that the games/fans have always been good for a laugh though. Honestly the only reason I came into the thread was for the jpegs
I think the final straw was when I went over to a friends house on 9/9/99 to try out Sonic Adventure and then everyone started talking in the most annoying voices possible and the other characters started showing up... I completely checked out at that point. Went home and jumped back into FF8
I will say though that the games/fans have always been good for a laugh though. Honestly the only reason I came into the thread was for the jpegs
UltraGunner
Banned
It's worse than a joke.
It's a meme.
It's a meme.
schwabdizzle
Banned
If there is one thing I wish, its that Nintendo buys the right to Sonic from Sega. Nintendo could do Sonic right.
We'll see after next week when he stars in the best platformer in recent history.
The series deserves shit where shit's due (because its definitely hit SOME KINDA lows), but the series used to be fantastic and still has the potential to be after all this time. Sega's just gotta stop treating Sonic Team so terribly and let them take their time to make something not mindlessly marketed for a change.
I think the actual joke here is how hard people's perception has warped about the series in recent years. Suddenly the best games were mediocre at most, the classic series was never good, and the Adventures were always considered untouchable filth? Haha, please.
I think the actual joke here is how hard people's perception has warped about the series in recent years. Suddenly the best games were mediocre at most, the classic series was never good, and the Adventures were always considered untouchable filth? Haha, please.
ShockingAlberto
Member
The being shown stuff early thing isn't weird, it is taking their word for it that's weird.
Maybe I'm the odd one here, but I won't commit to a review unless I'm playing something near-final, and even then I won't assume the stuff I didn't like is going to be fixed.
We'll see after next week when he stars in the best platformer in recent history.
Sonic was in Tropical Freeze?
Okay fair enough
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