Obscuritas
Member
I mean, Sonic Generations is not that old. Not yet, at least.
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Is Sonic a joke to you?
- Thread starter Jonneh3003
- Start date
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Sigh.
No, Sonic is a period in time, to me. Specifically, 1991-1994. The games produced during that time still hold up nicely and represent an important chapter in the history of games.
The stuff since then...well...I view that stuff as a completely separate thing. Like, it uses the "Sonic" brand, but I don't view it as the same thing. It's like comparing Space Jam to the original Looney Tunes shorts. Like, it's cool if you like Space Jam, but it just doesn't compare to the originals.
So I try not to let my general distaste for everything Sonic-related these days sour my view of the originals or how I used to view Sonic and Sega in general. Is it a joke? Nah, more of a cautionary tale of how not to manage a brand.
No, Sonic is a period in time, to me. Specifically, 1991-1994. The games produced during that time still hold up nicely and represent an important chapter in the history of games.
The stuff since then...well...I view that stuff as a completely separate thing. Like, it uses the "Sonic" brand, but I don't view it as the same thing. It's like comparing Space Jam to the original Looney Tunes shorts. Like, it's cool if you like Space Jam, but it just doesn't compare to the originals.
So I try not to let my general distaste for everything Sonic-related these days sour my view of the originals or how I used to view Sonic and Sega in general. Is it a joke? Nah, more of a cautionary tale of how not to manage a brand.
Voysa Reezun
Banned
No, but I do get irritated that SEGA puts out some real stinkers (06, Boom) and so people take that as the norm, when at this point, SEGA has actually put out more good Sonic games, legit good, than bad/mediocre like in the immediate post-Dreamcast era until about 2008/9.
Colors and Generations are top-tier games in my view; Unleashed is flawed, but ultimately very good; and Lost World is actually really good, and I'm not sure why that game gets shit on. Yet these games get crapped on because SEGA gives the Sonic-haters cover with utterly broken garbage Sonic games just when people seem to be coming around on modern Sonic.
Colors and Generations are top-tier games in my view; Unleashed is flawed, but ultimately very good; and Lost World is actually really good, and I'm not sure why that game gets shit on. Yet these games get crapped on because SEGA gives the Sonic-haters cover with utterly broken garbage Sonic games just when people seem to be coming around on modern Sonic.
King Gilga
Member
Yes, and it's been one for a long long time.
woopWOOP
Member
Yeah, tho it's kind of a so bad that it kinda becomes good sort of deal... aside from all the game breaking trash bugs ofcourse.
All those final boss Gods are so over the top and played completely straight, it's hilarious.
Not to mention that spinoff starring his evil clone that fights aliens using uzis and anime swords. I'd love to see that pitch video some day.
All those final boss Gods are so over the top and played completely straight, it's hilarious.
Not to mention that spinoff starring his evil clone that fights aliens using uzis and anime swords. I'd love to see that pitch video some day.
Sonic veered too far into territory he didn't need to go. Once we were looking at Sonic parading around realistic backdrops instead of the heavily-abstracted backdrops we grew accustomed to, it wasn't actually Sonic anymore. Not really.
Don't misinterpret, I don't mind that he talks, or that he has "shitty friends" (as the kids say nowadays), the "super-cool" rail-grinding shit they added to his repertoire during the jump to 3D or even the redesign of his character.
But there's something fundamentally absent from the games once Sonic Adventure happened. The gameplay isn't fluid. It's disjointed and all over the place. The backdrop went from abstract environments and became the epitome of the abuse of unnecessary realism in video games, for no discernible reason. The story changed from a rather simple but effective environmentalism allegory to the most convoluted stories that I've seen in my life that have no place in such a simple game premise.
Sonic Adventure broke the series in ways that it can NEVER recover from, because it has so significantly fractured the audience that there is no going back.
Sonic is just... gone forever.
Don't misinterpret, I don't mind that he talks, or that he has "shitty friends" (as the kids say nowadays), the "super-cool" rail-grinding shit they added to his repertoire during the jump to 3D or even the redesign of his character.
But there's something fundamentally absent from the games once Sonic Adventure happened. The gameplay isn't fluid. It's disjointed and all over the place. The backdrop went from abstract environments and became the epitome of the abuse of unnecessary realism in video games, for no discernible reason. The story changed from a rather simple but effective environmentalism allegory to the most convoluted stories that I've seen in my life that have no place in such a simple game premise.
Sonic Adventure broke the series in ways that it can NEVER recover from, because it has so significantly fractured the audience that there is no going back.
Sonic is just... gone forever.
No, Sonic is still here :l.
But I get what you are saying; Sonic isn't the 'style' he once was from the Genesis days during his early 3D adventures. They branched out to try and push the Dreamcast to its limits and that effected the console titles in the series going forward.....until Colors.
Colors and later Generations & Lost World, return to the style and look of the Genesis games. Bright worlds, smooth gameplay (at least for Colors and Generations) and overall in-line with what I would expect from the Genesis games.
But I'm the odd ball who is very forgiving of the series faults sometimes, so I might just be saying dumb stuff no one agrees with. Either way, you have a great point, but that only works with the series from 1998-2009. After 2010 onward, the series is trying hard to capture that 'Genesis' look and simplicity.
I think the memes make Sonic more endearing. A character doesn't need to be taken super seriously to be enjoyed and appreciated. Hell, I still love Sonic Adventure, campy stories and all. I think some of you guys take it too seriously.
Besides Sonic Generation was pretty damn good, and the next game will be by the same team. I'm actually looking forward to it.
Besides Sonic Generation was pretty damn good, and the next game will be by the same team. I'm actually looking forward to it.
KnightimeX_Legacy
Banned
To me Sonic isn't a joke.
What is a joke is the team who lacks the skill to make a good sonic game.
Can't really blame something that literally has no control over its own fate.
What is a joke is the team who lacks the skill to make a good sonic game.
Can't really blame something that literally has no control over its own fate.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
He is and he isn't. I've quite enjoyed a lot of his post 'golden age' games at this rate, but at the same time his blunders are near biblical-proportions and while I adore Ruby's work with it, even the Sonic twitter treats itself like a living, shitposting meme.
I think Sonic Team have it in them to put the series back on track after Colors and Generations (maybe Unleashed to a lesser extent) looked like they'd finally righted the course.
I think Sonic Team have it in them to put the series back on track after Colors and Generations (maybe Unleashed to a lesser extent) looked like they'd finally righted the course.
Arby 'n' the Chief
Member
Shadoken
Member
The revisionist history seems like a thing on GAF , it's not just Sonic. All it takes is a few bad titles and then suddenly you start seeing a trend of "The franchise was never good to begin with" . And Sonic has a huge repertoire of bad titles.
Yes and no. Sonic has become a hilarious meme on the internet. And he has had some terrible, terrible games that I'm glad exist solely to laugh at.
But he's also had some fantastic games and I don't doubt Sonic Team can still make a good Sonic game. Sonic 3&Knuckles and Sonic Generations especially are really amazing and some of my favorite games in their genres. Some people think Sonic is back to being shit after Generations but there's only been 1 real Sonic game (Lost World) since then and it wasn't trash, it was just ok (or so I've heard). There's no reason why the next actual Sonic Team game can't be as good as generations.
As for people who say garbage like "sonic hasn't had a good game since the genesis" or "sonic was never good," that just makes me think they mean "I can't take sonic seriously anymore because memes." Same as people who can't like Dark Souls or Undertale because they dislike their fanbases. They're letting their perception of something completely different color their perceptions of the game.
But he's also had some fantastic games and I don't doubt Sonic Team can still make a good Sonic game. Sonic 3&Knuckles and Sonic Generations especially are really amazing and some of my favorite games in their genres. Some people think Sonic is back to being shit after Generations but there's only been 1 real Sonic game (Lost World) since then and it wasn't trash, it was just ok (or so I've heard). There's no reason why the next actual Sonic Team game can't be as good as generations.
As for people who say garbage like "sonic hasn't had a good game since the genesis" or "sonic was never good," that just makes me think they mean "I can't take sonic seriously anymore because memes." Same as people who can't like Dark Souls or Undertale because they dislike their fanbases. They're letting their perception of something completely different color their perceptions of the game.
30yearsofhurt
Member
I need to know what this is from.
The Horror the horror
Banned
Sonic is like the Three Stooges to me. They're a joke but they're also legends.
There's only one big farce in video games and his name is Crash Bandicoot.
There's only one big farce in video games and his name is Crash Bandicoot.
GhostWriter24
Member
Enough with the meme bullshit already. It's a classic series done in by the advancements in technology and processing power.
Cherish the great games that exist featuring the character rather than bash him.
Cherish the great games that exist featuring the character rather than bash him.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
The series became a joke and people helped in that.
Ah, a nice reminder as to why I pulled the Crash Retrospective from Gaf....thanks for that answer. This isn't the thread to discus that though, so will shut up regarding that series for now.
I agree with most of that first half, but I'm gonna have to be real.
I've never quite understood when people act as if the original stories were some high art of minimalistic stories about saving the rainforests from The Man.
The American/European media (like the SatAM cartoon or the Archie comics) may have played up the environmentalism stuff while the US/EU instruction manuals dialed hard on the simplicity of "Sonic beats up Robuttnik lol", but the Japanese side of things was always more focused on the characters themselves and the world's mythos rather than some overarching aesop, even before hitting the Adventure era (ie: Sonic 1's manual, Sonic 2's manual, Sonic 3's manual, Sonic & Knuckles' manual).
Sure, the message was there (Eggman's actions were part of why you care for what happens in-game!), but Adventure just continued the developer's intentions to focus on the characters and the world they were developing and I can't see any fault in that, since they were just continuing what they started. Any dissonance between the US/EU way of handling the Sonic stories and the JP ones can be blamed on localization that gave zero crap about what the team wrote. :v
So I really can't blame them for the direction the stories took at all.. that is, until a few games into the 3D era where they started royally shitting it up. Thankfully the only times it was too complicated was SA2, Shadow and 06, which are long gone now!
Also, RE: environments..
That realism, man. I'm telling ya, it's unbearable.
I feel like people's opinions on things in the series are really heavily warped by their execution. There never really was anything wrong with the Sonic series focusing heavier on story elements, having many other playable characters, or even trying new things. The only problem was that in more cases than not, the execution of such hasn't been great, which leads people to assume it's the fault of the very concept's existence rather than that they should simply do better at it.
Also I wrote a lot holy shit can't wait for GAFers to walk right over this one :y
I never really cared for Sonic from day one. The mascot, the gameplay never appealed to me. And that was back when the games were supposedly good. I don't see the series as a joke, but I don't really see the series at all, which is just as bad, or worse, I guess. At least being an internet joke means people are thinking about you.
Fantastic post man, hit every point home.
Sonic while having a 'style' during the Genesis era, still focused on creative locations and fun backstories for the cast. And you didn't waste time writing man, it was a great read and love seeing in-depth discussion about the series.
Fantastic writing and thank you for your comment.
Arby 'n' the Chief
Member
GankzyMcfly
Member
Wasnt sonic boom rise of lyric supposed to be the officially reboot of the franchise? I heard it was hot garbage and buggy/broken. Im not one of those people who hate on everything sonic because i personally love some of the newer and all of the older entries to the franchise. However, perhaps the bad response to what was supposed to be the new face of sonic has just left a bad taste in peoples mouths. I remember sonic adventure 1 wasnt that great and reviewed poorly but sonic adventure 2 killed it with fans and reviewers and is still a fun game to play to this day. Hopefully if they make a sonic boom 2 they can refine it in much the same way and we can see sonic on top once again.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Yes, Sonic is a clown. Erm. Okay.
Not really sure what that would mean anyway. But seeing the thread title made me think of goodfellas.
Sonic Boom is odd....as SEGA had cold feet about the whole thing.
SEGA's Western Divisions wanted to westernize Sonic and make him a brand like in the 90's while SEGA's JP Division was 'Eh, it might work but we don't want to get involved. Here is X amount of money and do something with it'.
Then SEGA got BigRedButton and Sanzaru Games to make titles with Sonic while working with Archie Comics & a animation studio to get a comic/cartoon out to cash-in on the 'sub-series' of Sonic.
The show and the games were made side-by-side (to varying degrees; the 3DS game is closer to the show compared the Wii U game). Both were rushed to market but the 3DS game was content-complete in six months, so Sanzaru could ensure it was a polished game. BigRedButton, didn't have that however struggling to port a PS4/X1 game to hardware that they originally didn't intend to work with.
In the end, Boom is now a 'sub-brand' not unlike what Mega Man did with Battle Network if that makes sense; a series part of the 'main brand' but not directly a part of it. The show is successful and the 3DS game did okay, leading to Boom Fire & Ice getting made for this Fall.
Long story short; don't expect Boom 2 on NX next year.
Sonic Boom is essentially a spin off to tie in with the cartoon of the same name licensed out to a no name team.
I don't think it's meant to represent anything about the franchise other than the TV show.
Boom was an attempt (made by a studio of ex Insomniac/Naughty Dog folks) to make a version of the Sonic series that's more appealing to American audiences.
Sega's western branch thought it was a good idea at the time, but Sonic Team (the people who make the actual series) were so gobsmacked by it's existence / lack of quality that they're making the next game as good as possible out of pure spite and discontent. No kidding lmao,
EDIT: Also I ended up being the third person in a row explaining this lmao whoops
Sega's western branch thought it was a good idea at the time, but Sonic Team (the people who make the actual series) were so gobsmacked by it's existence / lack of quality that they're making the next game as good as possible out of pure spite and discontent. No kidding lmao,
EDIT: Also I ended up being the third person in a row explaining this lmao whoops
Its fine man; you touched on how Sonic Team themselves felt about the Boom project, something not mentioned prior. Great work man
.Dead End Irony
Member
Not a joke to me, but I don't blame others for seeing it as a joke. I think this next Sonic game will be a solid outing. They've had enough time to put in the work. It's a joke to many because there hasn't been enough consistency.
It's crazy how we've been putting up with trash for over 10 years (except for Generations, Colors, and parts of Unleashed). It seriously can't be that hard to make a Sonic game great. If they put me in charge, I'm sure I could make Sonic great again. I have zero video game developing/directing skills or experience, but I have a vision.
It's crazy how we've been putting up with trash for over 10 years (except for Generations, Colors, and parts of Unleashed). It seriously can't be that hard to make a Sonic game great. If they put me in charge, I'm sure I could make Sonic great again. I have zero video game developing/directing skills or experience, but I have a vision.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Boy, if there was ever a thread asking to be trolled, it was this one. I appreciate your enthusiasm OP, but jeeze.
To be fair, it was kind of the other way around. Sonic fans were "weird" but no more or less weird than any other fandom on the internet (there's always bad eggs). I don't think Sega was specifically pandering to any kind of fans who were lusting for that kind of content when they created Rouge, but I do think it probably put a lot of ideas in a lot of developing minds and things grew from there.
To be fair, it was kind of the other way around. Sonic fans were "weird" but no more or less weird than any other fandom on the internet (there's always bad eggs). I don't think Sega was specifically pandering to any kind of fans who were lusting for that kind of content when they created Rouge, but I do think it probably put a lot of ideas in a lot of developing minds and things grew from there.
NoFaceNico
Member
Search: Sonichu
You disappoint me, gaf.
You disappoint me, gaf.
GankzyMcfly
Member
Thanks for all the replies, makes sense. Im extremely happy to hear sonic teams reaponse to somic boom.
The problem is that people tend to favour the bad games over the good, and it doesn't help that SEGA have so many sub teams working on the series to try and keep it a yearly thing. On the plus side, the next major game (which will be announced later this month) is being done by Team A, the team that did Generations (which was their last game), so those of us who actually enjoy the series when it's good have that to look forward to.*
*And no doubt will still have to put up with driveby shitposting "SONIC WAS NEVER GOOD" "DON'T YOU REMEMBER SONIC BOOM AND 06?", etc
*And no doubt will still have to put up with driveby shitposting "SONIC WAS NEVER GOOD" "DON'T YOU REMEMBER SONIC BOOM AND 06?", etc
Eh, maybe? I don't really care. It's still my favorite franchise faults and all. I can acknowledge it isn't the greatest but also enjoy what it does right. I mean, I've played every Sonic game I could get my hands on, but I never touched the piece of shit that is boom.
Then again "Sonic is so bad amirite? Haha" has been cemented in enough people's minds that even a few amazing Sonic games coming out wouldn't change that perception. It's a fun thing to hate on for people.
Sonic has always been dear to my heart. I still have an SSMB account (I barely touch it now) where I used to read all the interesting dissections of the games and their development cycles. I stayed up until 5 am for the Generations teaser. It's just, the series isn't for everyone. And that's fine.
I don't think Co-op is an option, at least not a well-advertised one. It isn't broken as Sonic 06 (as much as some people want it to be), it's just... not good. A bunch of places were doing write-ups on the development hell the game went through, and even beyond that the characters are just caricatures of their former selves. You could even read it as an insult to western audiences because every single character is some goofy slapstick cut-out. The cartoon isn't bad, just nothing special.
Then again "Sonic is so bad amirite? Haha" has been cemented in enough people's minds that even a few amazing Sonic games coming out wouldn't change that perception. It's a fun thing to hate on for people.
Sonic has always been dear to my heart. I still have an SSMB account (I barely touch it now) where I used to read all the interesting dissections of the games and their development cycles. I stayed up until 5 am for the Generations teaser. It's just, the series isn't for everyone. And that's fine.
I don't think Co-op is an option, at least not a well-advertised one. It isn't broken as Sonic 06 (as much as some people want it to be), it's just... not good. A bunch of places were doing write-ups on the development hell the game went through, and even beyond that the characters are just caricatures of their former selves. You could even read it as an insult to western audiences because every single character is some goofy slapstick cut-out. The cartoon isn't bad, just nothing special.
Mexen
Member
Oh gosh LOOOOOOOL
As someone who never grew up with the games nor the character (I thought he was some Felix the Cat ripoff), I could care less. It's pretty much played up nowadays as a washed-up child star who's desperately trying to pay the bills no matter if the offer is complete shit.
So yeah, it's pretty much the laughing stock of video games.
So yeah, it's pretty much the laughing stock of video games.
John Kowalski
Banned
Yes, but I don't find it very funny.
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