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Is Super Mario 3D World already forgotten?

Mango The Magician said:
This seems disingenuous. Take say Space Junk Galaxy, compared to any post credits 3D World level, the different stars in SJG involve entirely new scenarios and maybe even entirely new enemies, while conversely the rehash of some of the 3D World levels just swaps the time of day or replaces some pipes with a couple of more pipes.
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I shouldn't have said "literally every," I take that extreme statement back.
But certainly the number of stars in Galaxy that require you to traverse the same sections of levels that you have before but in a slightly different way or involving a different path at some point outnumber as a matter of percentage the number of levels in 3D World that involve a "remix" challenge version of a previous stage.

You can't point to only the unique levels of Galaxy and only the remix/rehash levels of 3D World as an indication of overall quality.

He'll, I'm playing through the amazing Galaxy 2 right now thanks to the new re-release and I would say that more than five out of my current 24 stars have been gained by talking to a Luma on my path, feeding him coins or star bits, and him sending me off to a one-screen challenge. It's the equivalent of a green star in 3D World, and yet I am kicked back to the hub to start all over on the star I was going for in the first place.
 
Still playing it. I got it in January. I think it is an outstanding game, and I have really been enjoying it. I would rate it my second favourite wii u game after mk8. I have really enjoyed playing co-op multiplayer with my wife and daughter, and I have been deliberately avoiding playing on my own which is why it is taking so long.
 
NIN90 said:
Yeah keep insulting me. Of course it's only natural that the game would somehow get absolutely amazing after 8 so-so worlds, one suitably challenging world and one world of rehashes. What was I thinking...
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Like you said, you just started the game you were supposedly looking for during the whole first "8 so-so worlds". And then went "nah, rehashes..". Well, guess what - those rehashes also get difficulty twists. But like I said, everybody gets whatever they like from a game. You can take a horse to a river, etc.
 
Yet to play this but it's top of my to buy list for Wii U. Just waiting for the price to come down but it looks like that'll never happen.
 
I'm not particularly fond of 3D World. I can acknowledge that it's polished and well made, but it's just not as interesting to me as Galaxy or Sunshine.

Since I'm relatively new to Nintendo stuff, I at first assumed my lack of enthusiasm for the game was because I didn't care enough about Mario, but then I played Sunshine and loved it, and now I'm playing Galaxy 2 and having a lot of fun with that as well. I think 3D World just doesn't do anything particularly interesting and has a lot less personality than the other games.
 
Mango The Magician said:
This seems disingenuous. Take say Space Junk Galaxy, compared to any post credits 3D World level, the different stars in SJG involve entirely new scenarios and maybe even entirely new enemies, while conversely the rehash of some of the 3D World levels just swaps the time of day or replaces some pipes with a couple of more pipes.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there technically more unique levels in 3D World than the Galaxy games anyway?

If that's the case, then what is there really to complain about? Galaxy does make you retread a lot of ground, and sometimes do things that aren't that interesting. And 3D World has a few rehashes. Doesn't really seem like a big differences in the grand scheme of things.
 
Couldn't disagree more. I was thinking of replaying the game from scratch the other day, actually! After I downloaded Galaxy 2, as a matter of fact. I love how much diversity there is among mainline Mario. 3D World is incredibly memorable in an entirely different way than the equally unforgettable Galaxy games.

Edit: for the record, I think 3D World edges out the Galaxy games by a hair gameplay wise.
 
Calamari41 said:
I shouldn't have said "literally every," I take that extreme statement back.
But certainly the number of stars in Galaxy that require you to traverse the same sections of levels that you have before but in a slightly different way or involving a different path at some point outnumber as a matter of percentage the number of levels in 3D World that involve a "remix" challenge version of a previous stage.

You can't point to only the unique levels of Galaxy and only the remix/rehash levels of 3D World as an indication of overall quality.

He'll, I'm playing through the amazing Galaxy 2 right now thanks to the new re-release and I would say that more than five out of my current 24 stars have been gained by talking to a Luma on my path, feeding him coins or star bits, and him sending me off to a on-screen challenge. It's the equivalent of a green star in 3D World, and yet I am kicked back to the hub to start all over on the star I was going for in the first place.
Click to expand...

Firstly, I wasn't picking a Unique level, I simply found a list of Mario Galaxy levels and picked the first one I could remember best. Secondly, how exactly is that the equivalent to a Green Star. I mean this...
tumblr_n2vq2bk_W7e1sx18rto1_1280.jpg

Isn't exactly the pinnacle of difficulty, and even the challenge box green stars are radically less sophisticated than the Hungry Lumas, in fact the only alternate path star I can think of in the OG Galaxy that is similar to the challenge boxes is the random Yoshi planet in Space Junk Galaxy.
Gsnap said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there technically more unique levels in 3D World than the Galaxy games anyway?

If that's the case, then what is there really to complain about? Galaxy does make you retread a lot of ground, and sometimes do things that aren't that interesting. And 3D World has a few rehashes. Doesn't really seem like a big differences in the grand scheme of things.
Click to expand...
There are more levels in 3D World than Galaxy, but that doesn't really matter much to me, as I really don't care how many there are, not to mention that a huge chunk of the levels in 3D World are not actually different levels. To explain, the difference in say Galaxy or 64 to say 3D World, is that while you're retreading familiar ground, the game is building the world you're in, each subsequent mission involves something new or something that you just couldn't reach in a previous mission, where as in 3D World, the rehashes are just that familiar ground that offer no new world building or anything of the sort other than another challenge.
 
dampflokfreund said:
Yeah I agree, 3D World is easily forgettable. Simply the worst 3D Mario for me.
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Forgettable? You're in every 3D World thread telling everyone how much you don't like it, and have been since before the game came out. I don't think forgettable is a word that describes your feelings towards this game.
 
3D World (and Galaxy to a lesser extent) are more forgettable because their worlds aren't as fully realized as 64 and Sunshine. It's like the difference (for a person raised in America) between eating a really good hamburger, and eating some really good exotic food. You have the hamburger all the time in different forms, so its not "new" in the same way the exotic food is. That's really my only disappointment with Galaxy 2 and 3D World. Though, I will say, 3D World's multiplayer is very memorable and fun.
 
Calamari41 said:
I shouldn't have said "literally every," I take that extreme statement back.
But certainly the number of stars in Galaxy that require you to traverse the same sections of levels that you have before but in a slightly different way or involving a different path at some point outnumber as a matter of percentage the number of levels in 3D World that involve a "remix" challenge version of a previous stage.

You can't point to only the unique levels of Galaxy and only the remix/rehash levels of 3D World as an indication of overall quality.

He'll, I'm playing through the amazing Galaxy 2 right now thanks to the new re-release and I would say that more than five out of my current 24 stars have been gained by talking to a Luma on my path, feeding him coins or star bits, and him sending me off to a one-screen challenge. It's the equivalent of a green star in 3D World, and yet I am kicked back to the hub to start all over on the star I was going for in the first place.
Click to expand...

The green stars in 3D World are just there to pick up on your way to the flagpole, no different than the big coins in NSMB. The stars in 64 and Sunshine were the goals of the level and each required you to do something different to get them.

Whether it be going to a different section of the world to find a different star or fight a boss or use a powerup. In 3D World every time you go into a world, you still just have to get to the same flagpole, over and over and over.
 
The fixed camera isometric view kills it for me. It just left me wanting a true 3D Mario or another 2D entry. And very few of the levels felt interesting or remarkable. It's definitely towards the bottom of my mainline Mario game rankings.

Calamari41 said:
Forgettable? You're in every 3D World thread telling everyone how much you don't like it, and have been since before the game came out. I don't think forgettable is a word that describes your feelings towards this game.
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It seems like you're intentionally trying to misunderstand the intent behind the post you're quoting.
 
XtaLarge said:
Super Mario Bros. 3 is an incredibly forgettable game. It's great but it does nothing new and is not a re-imaging of the Mario framework like Super Mario Bros. 2 or an evolution of the series like Super Mario World. It's like Lost Levels but good.
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You're right, it is. SMB 3 is not talked about in the same light as 64, World, 1 or Galaxy.

Not every Mario game is going to go down as an unforgettable classic. The same can be said for Zelda: 1, LttP and OoT are the ones which stand out.

Edit: Now that I think about it that SMB 3 comparison really doesn't hold water. SMB3 was a return to form for Mario which also evolved the series in some key ways, such as the inclusion of a world map. 3D world doesn't do anything as memorable as SMB3. Still, SMB3 is forgettable compared to 1, World, 64 and Galaxy.
 
Calamari41 said:
Forgettable? You're in every 3D World thread telling everyone how much you don't like it, and have been since before the game came out. I don't think forgettable is a word that describes your feelings towards this game.
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No, I just state my opinion in every thread. I like the game but compared to other Mario games its just weak for me. 3D World is the Skyward Sword of the Mario series for me. Good game but no way as good as the other entries.
 
Definitely the least memorable 3D Mario. I agree with OP.

Part of the problem is that each level was disconnected from the next in sense of theme, so you can't remember which levels were in which worlds. You can't say 'I loved the ice world section, that had some great levels.' Therefore despite the fact that the game had some great stuff, it fades from memory faster than it should.

I'll always believe that the multiplayer focus hurt it as a singleplayer game. Even 3D Land is a tighter, more focussed platforming experience, and probably the better game.
 
Nah man.
I think you're seeing what you want to see because you're not particularly fond of the experience.
If you and some other people don't find it to be a memorable experience for whatever reason than that's totally fine, but that opinion in no way reflects the game's wider reception.

I didn't think A Link Between Worlds was a great or particularly memorable Zelda experience, I thought it was rather weak in a lot of areas and was too open for it's own good.
Guess what?
I still recognize that I'm a vocal minority critic in that regard; I'm well within my right to make these criticisms and some may find them perfectly valid, but that doesn't mean my views reflect the wider discussion at hand.
AFAICT, the majority of it's player base adored it and for some it was a personal "return to form" for the franchise. It would be silly for me not to recognize that and make a thread titled "Is A Link Between Worlds already seen as the weakest entry in the Zelda franchise?"

When you take a step back to look at the wider discussion involving 3D World you'll see that:

The game was met with immense praise on it's release, it's a 90+ game on the major aggregate sites, it made number 4 on GAF's 2013 GOTY list, was nominated by more than a few enthusiast sites for GOTY, and is still being talked about today whether the discussion is positive, negative or somewhat nuetral.

I really doubt that anybody has forgotten about it, and I don't think anybody will for a long time coming.
 
Funny to see this thread today...

I bought the game at launch and played it exclusively with my wife. We made it all the way to
Mushroom
World before life got crazy and game time got limited. Just before the year ended last month, I realized it had been an entire year since we last played, so my wife and I began hammering out the final parts of the game. Just last week, we conquered
Champion's Road
and finished the game in it's entirety.

That is, until I decided to replay every level with every character that hadn't beaten it yet. Finished that just hours ago, and now I see this thread. Crazy timing.

I love this game. I won't forget it for quite some time.
 
Mango The Magician said:
Firstly, I wasn't picking a Unique level, I simply found a list of Mario Galaxy levels and picked the first one I could remember best. Secondly, how exactly is that the equivalent to a Green Star. I mean this...
tumblr_n2vq2bk_W7e1sx18rto1_1280.jpg

Isn't exactly the pinnacle of difficulty, and even the challenge box green stars are radically less sophisticated than the Hungry Lumas, in fact the only alternate path star I can think of in the OG Galaxy that is similar to the challenge boxes is the random Yoshi planet in Space Junk Galaxy.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it's like every green star, I said it's like a green star challenge. I just played one of these Luma challenges literally ten minutes ago and don't even remember it. Let me go back right now and see what it was.

Edit: It was in Cloudy Court Galaxy. You get the star from a simple "collect the five silver stars" room where shadow Marios chase you. But even that is beyond my point: the two stars in Cloudy Court Galaxy have you traverse the exact same level in the exact same way twice. One just pulls you into another room halfway through for a little extra challenge and your star. This is no more egregious a "rehash" than the challenge levels in 3D World.

kittens said:
It seems like you're intentionally trying to misunderstand the intent behind the post you're quoting.
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I understand the intent perfectly fine. The intent doesn't jive with the poster's history with regards to threads involving this game. "Forgettable" means "easily forgotten," and the poster has not come close to forgetting about this game for over a year now.

It's fine to not like it, I just find it funny that he called it forgettable.
 
Calamari41 said:
I didn't say it's like every green star, I said it's like a green star challenge. I just played one of these Luma challenges literally ten minutes ago and don't even remember it. Let me go back right now and see what it was.
Click to expand...

I like to replay 64 and Sunshine every so often because I enjoy them so much. I loved figuring out how to climb the clock world in 64, or how to get the penguin baby to his mother in the snow world. And I always remember the 'retro' worlds of Sunshine among other things.

I enjoyed the Galaxy games but I don't think I'll ever want to play them again, and I definitely won't play through 3D Land or World (or NSMBs for that matter) ever again.
 
I'm playing it right now.

Loving it but i begin (6th world i think, i always complete all the star of each level) to see some limits. Like lazy ass level design. How many time one of the stars is just "have the cat costume and climb that wall"..

Also there are real control problem with depth, and i'm not sure why Nintendo continue designing some things around that when it's clearly not super clear sometimes and absolutely the reason why people are not comfortable with 3D Mario. Why do you let me run in every direction on a sidescrolling level Nintendo, what's the point..

Except for that i find the game incredible in its presentation. And i'm not bothered by the fact that it's not hard (for now). I have that weird idea that the fun in a game is not is difficulty, at least not only. That actually made me understand something funny.

Mario 3D world is more like the idea i have of Mario in my youth, and the philosophy that i learned then. A game is about having fun and being amazed, first (by that i mean feeling an magical interaction with something unreal).
My problem with the 2D Mario in recent years, they don't have that sense of discovering and wonder. As they don't have that, they have to have pure difficulty to exist, and hardcore nes fans are happy with that, but to me, difficulty cannot be everything.
 
Rocky said:
I like to replay 64 and Sunshine every so often because I enjoy them so much. I loved figuring out how to climb the clock world in 64, or how to get the penguin baby to his mother in the snow world. And I always remember the 'retro' worlds of Sunshine among other things.

I enjoyed the Galaxy games but I don't think I'll ever want to play them again, and I definitely won't play through 3D Land or World (or NSMBs for that matter) ever again.
Click to expand...

I love all of those games too, but my only point is that rehashing and remixing levels is not unique to 3D World. The first two stars in Bob-omb Battlefield have you climb the same mountain in the same way. The first two in Whomp Fortress have you climb to the top of the tower in the same way, with a small platform challenge and a boss fight being the two things you find at the top. Etc etc.
 
Mango The Magician said:
There are more levels in 3D World than Galaxy, but that doesn't really matter much to me, as I really don't care how many there are, not to mention that a huge chunk of the levels in 3D World are not actually different levels. To explain, the difference in say Galaxy or 64 to say 3D World, is that while you're retreading familiar ground, the game is building the world you're in, each subsequent mission involves something new or something that you just couldn't reach in a previous mission, where as in 3D World, the rehashes are just that familiar ground that offer no new world building or anything of the sort other than another challenge.
Click to expand...

I don't know, about that. If you didn't care about how many unique levels there were, you wouldn't be complaining about the remixed levels to begin with.

And the bolded is not true at all. Only two of the extra worlds have rehash levels. After 8 worlds of unique levels and one extra world with unique levels. And of course champions road after that.

That's not a huge chunk at all. You're clearly blowing it out of proportion. Why people always complain about the remixed levels in 3D World makes no sense to me. Since they take up so little of the actual game, which is full of unique content.
 
Gsnap said:
I don't know, about that. If you didn't care about how many unique levels there were, you wouldn't be complaining about the remixed levels to begin with.

And the bolded is not true at all. Only two of the extra worlds have rehash levels. After 8 worlds of unique levels and one extra world with unique levels. And of course champions road after that.

That's not a huge chunk at all. You're clearly blowing it out of proportion. Why people always complain about the remixed levels in 3D World makes no sense to me. Since they take up so little of the actual game, which is full of unique content.
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"Huge chunk" was a hyperbole, I wasn't sure what word to use since I wanted to do a percentage but I just sorta went with it. Likewise, I don't care how many levels are in 3D World, I just vastly prefer the way they're handled in Galaxy.
 
Calamari41 said:
I love all of those games too, but my only point is that rehashing and remixing levels is not unique to 3D World. The first two stars in Bob-omb Battlefield have you climb the same mountain in the same way. The first two in Whomp Fortress have you climb to the top of the tower in the same way, with a small platform challenge and a boss fight being the two things you find at the top. Etc etc.
Click to expand...

Yes, but to me at least, it didn't feel tedious at all, climbing the same mountains, it was actually fun and there were no timers telling you to hurry up.

In 3D World, its jumping the same cubes and enemies that we saw in the NSMB games and if you take too long you get that annoying hurry up music.

If this is the direction 3D Mario is going, I'm probably gonna skip their next console, since the only thing keeping me now is Zelda.

I've had my WiiU since launch and have bought all their big games, like DK, MK and Smash and the only game I really enjoyed playing so far is Wind Waker. Maybe because I liked it a lot on the GC.
 
Mango The Magician said:
"Huge chunk" was a hyperbole, I wasn't sure what word to use since I wanted to do a percentage but I just sorta went with it. Likewise, I don't care how many levels are in 3D World, I just vastly prefer the way they're handled in Galaxy.
Click to expand...

Clearly.

Which is why I had a problem with it. People are often pretty disingenuous when criticizing 3D World. You prefer how Galaxy handles its levels, and so you make 3D World's reuse of levels seem worse than it actually is.
 
Calamari41 said:
It's a fun challenge, but the only thing that makes it take more than half a minute to complete is the fact that the platforms are so big you spend so much time just running to cover distance.
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Yeah, that far exceeds nearly anything in the challenge boxes of 3D World, it's simple sure, but it's not as simple as 'break all these boxes till you find the star' or 'kill all the enemies.'
Gsnap said:
Clearly.

Which is why I had a problem with it. People are often pretty disingenuous when criticizing 3D World. You prefer how Galaxy handles its levels, and so you make 3D World's reuse of levels seem worse than it actually is.
Click to expand...
Well, it's not like the hyperbole doesn't go the other way as well. I mean rehashing levels with a slightly more difficult twist isn't as great as it's been called.
 
Rocky said:
If this is the direction 3D Mario is going, I'm probably gonna skip their next console, since the only thing keeping me now is Zelda.

I've had my WiiU since launch and have bought all their big games, like DK, MK and Smash and the only game I really enjoyed playing so far is Wind Waker. Maybe because I liked it a lot on the GC.
Click to expand...

You pretty much described me but I also liked Smash4.
 
Gaming is bigger than 1991 and it doesn't revolve around Nintendo. A lot of people still have the perception stuff like Mario should change the course of gaming every time a new title comes out but that's not the way it is.

It's similar to how many Zelda fans believe no Zelda game after 1998 is any good because the whole industry doesn't drop what it's doing and copy Nintendo the moment a new Zelda comes out.

Even in spite of this 3D World is far from forgotten and has gotten an exceptional amount of press and critical praise. It was noticed and given due credit for its quality.
 
Mango The Magician said:
Well, it's not like the hyperbole doesn't go the other way as well. I mean rehashing levels with a slightly more difficult twist isn't as great as it's been called.
Click to expand...

Who says it is? Seriously? Who, when talking about how great 3D World is, talks about the remixed levels?

People love the vast amounts of unique content in the game. Nobody praises how great "rehashing levels with a slightly more difficult twist" is. Most people just think it's a nice added bonus to a game that's already packed with content.
 
Mango The Magician said:
Yeah, that far exceeds nearly anything in the challenge boxes of 3D World, it's simply sure, but it's not as simple as 'break all these boxes till you find the star' or 'kill all the enemies'
Click to expand...

I disagree with that, you are discounting every other type of challenge room in 3D World, but either way:

Do you think that room qualifies that star mission as not being a rehash of the "Head in the Clouds" star? 99% of "Silver Stars in the Purple Pond" is an identical replay of the first half of "Head in the Clouds."

How about in Fluffy Bluff? Chimp Stomp has you bop enemies to reach a certain score, and the entire level is just the first third or fourth of the exact level from Search for Captain Toad. Only difference is they slapped a bunch of enemies in and ask you to jump on them all. Not a rehash?
 
Come on, get real, this is sad. 3D World is forgotten? It has some of the most top shelf level design and gameplay in the series' history, it's right up there with SMB 3, SMW, SM3DL and surpasses the Galaxy games in some areas. It will be talked about and will be on Best-of lists for many years to come. A friend of mine recently got the SM3DW system bundle and he can't put the game down. A co-worker who has owned the game for over a year told me a few weeks ago that he's still trying to beat Champion's Road. It's one of the highest rated current gen games around, it has solid sales numbers and the bundle will also continue to put it in the hands of new people, and folks are still playing it. The word "forgotten" will never be in the same logical sentence as Super Mario 3D World. It's like saying people have forgotten Mario 64. Now, if your thread had been about say, Mario Sunshine, then maybe there'd at least be the potential for some interesting discussion to be had. But even Sunshine can't be resolutely classified as "forgotten" despite that title's major shortcomings.
 
I agree if only because I can barely remember what levels were in the game and I played it last month. The only level that stuck with me was the beach one because of the fantastic music and the final boss level. The game is without a doubt a good game. It is very polished, the mechanics are tight, etc. At the same time, it is extremely forgettable and didn't leave a strong impression on me after playing it. In terms of platformers, Shovel Knight was much memorable to me in the past year.

At any rate, I didn't get a Wii U to play Mario, so I am not that bothered... only underwhelmed. Galaxy blew my mind, after all.
 
Gsnap said:
Who says it is? Seriously? Who, when talking about how great 3D World is, talks about the remixed levels?

People love the vast amounts of unique content in the game. Nobody praises how great "rehashing levels with a slightly more difficult twist" is. Most people just think it's a nice added bonus to a game that's already packed with content.
Click to expand...
Are the comments talking about how the game gets massively better after world seven not referring to that?
Calamari41 said:
I disagree with that, you are discounting every other type of challenge room in 3D World, but either way:

Do you think that room qualifies that star mission as not being a rehash of the "Head in the Clouds" star? 99% of "Silver Stars in the Purple Pond" is an identical replay of the first half of "Head in the Clouds."
Click to expand...

Well no I don't consider that a rehash, as it involves new geometry, scripting, and a whole new scenario. Some of the levels in 3D World do this as well, but from what I remember it's never done to a noticeable extent. I encourage you though to provide examples of some of the challenge boxes in 3D World you think are at the same level, as I'm not capable of remembering all of them, just some of them.
 
Rocky said:
Lack of an adventure mode kinda turned me off to it. I don't play multiplayer that much really.
Click to expand...

Yeah can't blame you. I just find the Wii U overhype on GAF (and other forums) funny. Like the GOTY list this year. I mean maybe they like those games more but I know I didn't.
 
Mango The Magician said:
Are the comments talking about how the game gets massively better after world seven not referring to that?
Click to expand...

No. They're talking about World 8, 9, and Champions Road.

Or at least they should be, or they're being stupid.

And people saying the game "gets good" after World 7 are being stupid anyway. The game is good from the beginning. It just gets much more difficult after world 7.
 
I've been slowly chipping away at it since I got my WiiU over a year ago, on World 4 now. It's an absolutely amazing game that I play when I want something to relax and cheer me up.

I don't think it's forgotten at all.
 
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