MightyKAC
Member
Of course it's not but that fact gets largely ignored due to how much gaf loves its memes.
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Is Support For VITA already dying? [Use the new thread]
- Thread starter Fezan
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Of course it's not but that fact gets largely ignored due to how much gaf loves its memes.
Perhaps, yeah.
I just find it odd people are discussing whether support has dried up at this point. I think a year from now if it's looking dire, sure, but right now, Sony would be stupid not to hold anything they can for E3, and the current line up has plenty I'm excited about.
BioShock
Broken
DJ Max
FFX HD
Gravity Rush
Killzone
LBP
Persona 4
Soul Sacrifice
Sound Shapes
SFxT
Time Travelers
Warrior's Lair
Zero Escape
I think that's very respectable, and I'm sure it'll get a significant boost at E3.
mescalineeyes
Banned
How is that respectable when half of those won't release within 2 years time?
I would be surprised if any of those aren't out in the next two years, besides maybe BioShock.
Blue Submarine No. 6
Member
Whether it's a "port" or not is really irrelevant. They're contending it's not a system seller, and by itself they're right. But I disagree that having Vita versions of major PS3 games available day/date does not make the Vita more attractive. I believe that games like this add quality software to the library, and that Vita will be a slow burn, popularizing as the library grows (and as the price inevitably comes down a bit - maybe not this year, but eventually).
Annectodally, I believe that lot of people who love video games, for many reasons, may find they do not play consoles that much anymore, if they have them at all. Our household is an example of this; we're a large family and have all the consoles, but they're hardly ever used... The consoles are attached to our home theatre or to a dedicated gaming CRT we've got beside it, and these spaces are kind of cut off from the rest of the house. As a result, we all tend to sit around the open concept living spaces in the house playing handhelds all the time. Someone will play the PS3 to finish Uncharted 3 or go to the Wii to work through Skyward Sword, but general day-to-day gaming is played almost entirely on a DSi/3DS or a PSP/PSVita. iPads are getting more and more of the household gaming attention as well (not from me, but from my wife and kids), but the handheld consoles remain the go-to systems. Anyway, I think Vita will fit with this kind of gaming very well, and it will find a niche as a result.
UncleSporky
Member
I don't know, what was the lead platform? If ME3's lead platform was PC, then yes, it is a port.
I'm assuming Sly 4's lead platform was PS3, making the Vita version a port.
Port does not imply it was released at a later date, it means that it's making an appearance on a platform that it was not primarily programmed for. Ports can even appear prior to the lead platform release, and they're still ports.
Because no stores received many copies because they didn't anticipate them selling so they ordered less?
Sales usually come when they either need to clear out their stock, were overshipped, or for holidays.
Yeah, but the last year of PS2 were absolutely incredible.
HamPster PamPster
Member
What is Broken?
famousmortimer
Banned
There's 19 games currently with a metacritic of 70 or higher. Someone find me another system, handheld or console, that had 19 games with an average score of 7/10 or higher a few months after its release.
This whole 'vita has no games' meme that has sprung up around here is absolutely silly. It doesn't make any sense. By just about any metric the Vita has MORE games and MORE GOOD GAMES at the two month mark (or 6 month mark in japan) than any other system ever at this point.
If you guys want to hate the vita, go right ahead - it's the internet, we're all allowed to blindly hate things without recourse. But if you don't want to look like an idiot, you should drop this whole 'vita has no games' nonsense.
This whole 'vita has no games' meme that has sprung up around here is absolutely silly. It doesn't make any sense. By just about any metric the Vita has MORE games and MORE GOOD GAMES at the two month mark (or 6 month mark in japan) than any other system ever at this point.
If you guys want to hate the vita, go right ahead - it's the internet, we're all allowed to blindly hate things without recourse. But if you don't want to look like an idiot, you should drop this whole 'vita has no games' nonsense.
famousmortimer
Banned
Seriously? Most of those will be out in the next six months. The only one that is a question mark is bioshock.
Bitching about lack of games =/= hating the Vita.
If I hated it, I'd be glad there were so few upcoming titles to spend my money on.
Pureauthor
Member
You're missing the metric people actually use when they discuss the Vita's ailing fortunes: The metric of how well these games are driving adoption of the Vita. By that metric they're not particularly good.
How did Metroid The Other M drive Wii adoption?
I don't think Sony should use that as a standard for acceptance.
Pureauthor
Member
Given that the game itself did not do particularly well, I'd say it didn't do wonders for hardware either.
How is this relevant to the discussion about the Vita, exactly?
In such case, when will it start?
I agree that the hyperbole is silly, there seems a bit of a death-spiral going on with people bizarrely laying into the Vita about it's games because it's struggling sales-wise, not because the games are actually poor. Still, there is a difference between games likely to sell the system, and games that are just 'good' though.
When the 3DS was released, everyone said it had no games and did so until 9 months later when Mario/Mario Kart were released. I didn't care, was too busy playing Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars, pleased as punch that a niche, turn-based strategy game by Gollup was a launch title! As far as I was concerned it was a system seller
The meme won't fade until more big, exclusive games are out, and even then the Vita will have to have a remarkable sales recovery to lay it to rest, but time is on it's side. Games and consoles take years to make and have a lifecycle of the better part of a decade (with incremental upgrades) these days, such as the PS3's gradual recovery over time despite a stumble out of the gates, but we want to be able to make binary judgement calls within weeks.
Still, it makes for shorter, punchier posts than this one, right? ;-)
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
I really don't get how people are moaning about Sly 4 coming to Vita, it was an easy port, it's hardly like they could of made a unique ip instead, this just gives consumers more options, I for one am glad, as I said in another thread this late in the generation I'd prefer to buy my games on the Vita as we're be moving to next gen soon and I will eventually be selling off my PS3 and games.
The idea of simultaneous PS3 and Vita releases is a good one imo, I hope there are more of them.
The idea of simultaneous PS3 and Vita releases is a good one imo, I hope there are more of them.
famousmortimer
Banned
The system is too expensive. That's why it's selling like shit. It is true that the 3DS eventually got 'system seller' games with two mario games in november of last year, but if the 3DS was still $250 would they have sold nearly as many systems? There's no way for me to prove this, but IMO i highly doubt it.
Sony needs to drop price and include memory in the package. The problem has nothing to do with games, it has everything to do with people not wanting to spend $270-$400 before they even own a single game.
Father_Brain
Banned
It's a good idea if the choice is between PS3-only or PS3/Vita (as was presumably the case with Sly and MLB), and it's fine for titles that wouldn't likely move much Vita hardware as exclusives (Warrior's Lair). For something like Media Molecule's new IP, where Vita is apparently the lead platform, it'd be a pretty bad idea. Vita needs more software like Gravity Rush that differentiates it from PS3, or else you've considerably lessened the reasons for any current PS3 owner to buy one.
Not the first time I've said this, but if a price cut were all it took to turn Vita's current software lineup into massive system-sellers, the software would be selling much better than it is. Instead, Uncharted is the only title on the platform to break 100K retail in the US thus far, which indicates that there just isn't that much demand for the software available, period.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Cancel the Vita version Sony, UncleSporky says your only supposed to release games that will move systems. Building a well rounded library isn't important.
Clearly it's more than price, 3DS which is a casual friendly (more so than Vita will ever be), cheap and has system selling games is now selling poorly (again)
In this day and age you can't be sure the right price and games are going to make a handheld sell ...
famousmortimer
Banned
I agree that the hyperbole is silly, there seems a bit of a death-spiral going on with people bizarrely laying into the Vita about it's games because it's struggling sales-wise, not because the games are actually poor. Still, there is a difference between games likely to sell the system, and games that are just 'good' though.
When the 3DS was released, everyone said it had no games and did so until 9 months later when Mario/Mario Kart were released. I didn't care, was too busy playing Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars, pleased as punch that a niche, turn-based strategy game by Gollup was a launch title! As far as I was concerned it was a system seller
The meme won't fade until more big, exclusive games are out, and even then the Vita will have to have a remarkable sales recovery to lay it to rest, but time is on it's side. Games and consoles take years to make and have a lifecycle of the better part of a decade (with incremental upgrades) these days, such as the PS3's gradual recovery over time despite a stumble out of the gates, but we want to be able to make binary judgement calls within weeks.
Still, it makes for shorter, punchier posts than this one, right? ;-)
I agree with you 100%, including that Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars was amazing. Still probably the best 3DS game released. Wasn't quite Xcom, but it was pretty darn good.
It's just frustrating being a fan of something and coming to forums and feeling like people are taking a shit on it for no good reason. Like I said in my last post, if you wanna get mad at the vita get mad at the price. Get mad at the memory prices. But why get mad at the games?
But I guess i'm also coming at it from the perspective that I run a fansite about the thing, so I've literally played every game on the system. I know how they play. I know which are great, which are good and which are shit. So seeing Joe Expert come in with his/her meme IT HAS NO GAMES when it's clear they haven't played any of the games is just frustrating.
Well, it's selling poorly in the West. I think dominating the home market was Nintendo's first goal, and maybe they'll look further at Western sales when the Wii U comes out and they can sell both systems on their connectivity or something like that, at least then it'll give them another unique angle compared to smartphones. Even then I'm not convinced it'll pick up.
But yeah, handhelds aren't doing amazingly well outside of Japan, and even the Vita looks like it's struggling there.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Well, it outsold Uncharted GA in both Japan and America so... more than Vita's leading game?
famousmortimer
Banned
Oh, I wasn't aware you had sales numbers of digital sales. Care to share them?
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
Porting Sly over to the Vita isn't stopping Sony from making a unique ip, that's what I'm getting at, there no reason they can't do both, from listening to the latest official Playstation podcast apparently it took a matter of weeks to port Oddworld across.
Pureauthor
Member
The games are not enough to sell the Vita to the mainstream as it is. They are not offering sufficient value for the asking price. Now you can argue that simply lowering the price will be enough to get consumers to bite (although I disagree), but that's a different affair from the initial statement about there not being any complaints about the Vita's lineup. The complaint is that it's simply not enough to push the Vita is still true.
Not really. Nintendo increased the 3DS price based on the positive reception prior to launch before they realized that it didn't translate to more sales. The Vita at USD 250 is Sony basically cutting it as low as they can.
Plus, Nintendo is in a better financial position than Sony.
Father_Brain
Banned
This isn't really an argument at all. It's an attempt to shut down sales discussion of any game for which someone doesn't want to hear that it's selling poorly.
No, we don't have digital numbers, but there's no indication that they're likely to be vastly disproportionate to the retail numbers, or that they're more than a fraction of the retail numbers to begin with. Digital is a diversion, not a counterargument.
Here's why:
You said:
Nobody does this on any other platform. If Vita was selling incredibly well because Super Playstation Petz turned out to be a smash hit, this is not a reason to celebrate. We care about quality games on all platforms. Nobody on GAF complained that Metroid didn't drive Wii sales, they just played and enjoyed it. But that's unacceptable for Vita, apparently. If games don't "drive adoption", they don't count. I'm opposed to this.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
The hell?
Do you intentionally keep forgetting what this thread is actually about?
About Vita losing all developer support after 3 months?
To be fair, the thread is about
'is support for the vita dying'
not
'is support for the vita, comprised of system sellers, dying?'
The 'no games' argument has become confused with the 'no system sellers' one, although it's a bit of a linked argument. No system sellers= few systems sold= less support for less popular games.
'is support for the vita dying'
not
'is support for the vita, comprised of system sellers, dying?'
The 'no games' argument has become confused with the 'no system sellers' one, although it's a bit of a linked argument. No system sellers= few systems sold= less support for less popular games.
Pureauthor
Member
You're wrong. People do that here all the time, for every system under the sun. Sales-Age is a thing that exists, whether you like it or not. And the premise of this topic was about support for the Vita drying up, which was directly tied into ailing hardware sales and all the issues related to it, including how well software is driving the hardware. And throughout the discussion the topic has always been on the business side of things.
If people want to start threads about liking X Game or software lineups on Platform Y, people who enter threads to shit it up with sales talk about how those games sold badly would be (rightfully) derided. But that's not this thread. This thread is about market performance, and how much you like a system's lineup only matters insofar that the mainstream shares your view or not.
(And as an aside, if you think the majority of people here who played M:OM enjoyed it, you clearly have not been paying much attention to M:OM discussion.)
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
Yeah support for the Vita, and? from a consumer point of view what has that got to do with games that push the Vita and judging how good they are solely on that stupid metric? more game is more games whether they push the Vita or not, I've been reading this thread from the beginning and right now it's taking a nasty turn into derogatory sale age talk.
famousmortimer
Banned
I don't know that simply lowering the asking price will be "enough." In fact, I don't know what "enough" is. I know most people around here deem the PSP to be a failure and have no games.... meanwhile it's one of my favorite systems ever. So if the Vita is going to be a PSP style failure I'm fucking psyched about that.
I mean if this thread is about how the lineup isn't enough to get people to buy a $300+ handheld, I agree. But that's not what most people are saying when they parrot the 'vita has no games' line. That might be what a few of you guys are saying - and point taken, I agree - but the general idea that it has no games is dumb. I own the thing. I have 31 games downloaded on my system. I love these games. I play them hourly every day. There's no way anyone can convince me that the thing has no games.
I buy all systems at launch, going all the way back to the SNES (I'm 35). No system has had this many games, this early, that I loved as the Vita. You can trot out as many sales numbers as you want, but I don't give a shit. Sales numbers don't mean a fucking thing. I really love Leonard Cohen. Leonard Cohen, even in his heyday, didn't sell 1/1000th of the records that Justin Beiber sells. Does that make Justin Beiber better? Should we start a "LEONARD COHEN HAS NO SONGS!!!" meme? I mean this shit is just nonsensical.
The vita does have games. It has a lot. They've reviewed well. The people who own them, love them. Most people haven't tried them... and decided they aren't worth shit. Take a guess which people are worth listening to and which aren't.
Pureauthor
Member
It's about support for the Vita dying. Which is directly tied to how well it performs on the market. Which is tied to how well the software already out (alongside a bunch of other factors) pushes the hardware.
This is not a difficult concept to grasp.
Probably had more to do with the fact that everyone already owned a wii at that point.
famousmortimer
Banned
Ok, so since we don't have digital numbers they don't count because we have to go off your assumption that they aren't very high, instead of the assumption that they are.
Any reason for this? Or does it just help your argument so that's how we're gonna go about it.
I actually agree with you, the digital sales probably aren't that big. But the thing is, I don't KNOW that so I'm not gonna dismiss it (or use it) to fit into my argument.
If you want to talk about game sales but disregard one avenue of sales, what's the point of the fucking conversation?
Because historically that's how it's always been and we have no evidence so far indicating otherwise?
It's not difficult to grasp your argument, it's difficult to understand why you'd make it. We've all seen how this console generation played out. We've seen the futility of putting sales above all else. Most importantly, it doesn't follow the implicit wisdom that huge sales lead to the best games.
If E3 doesn't demonstrate significant 3rd party commitments to Vita, I'll agree the system is in trouble.
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
Mate, your just turning this discussion into a negative sale age pitch stating that any game that doesn't push the system isn't good, I don't agree, any software that comes out for the Vita is support imo, the devs/publisher are supporting the system, whether it helps push the system or not is another matter, whether it's a good game or not is also another matter, judging how good a game is based on it's system selling potential is silly, your just going to rub people up the wrong way.
Read the thread title, "Is Support For VITA already dying?"
If someone releases a game or even port like Sly 4 for example they are supporting it.
This thread was primarily about developer/publisher support for the system.
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