My local tesco (it's a massive superstore, not a small one), has an upstairs dedicated to clothing and electricals. 3DS/DS has a full three bays, Wii has two and Vita has a pathetic small FSDU hidden round the back with about five games on it.
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Is Support For VITA already dying? [Use the new thread]
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My local tesco (it's a massive superstore, not a small one), has an upstairs dedicated to clothing and electricals. 3DS/DS has a full three bays, Wii has two and Vita has a pathetic small FSDU hidden round the back with about five games on it.
yurinka
Member
iOS market is too saturated and has (or had some few years ago where I worked there) more or less the same piracy rates than Android.
The budget needed for a medium size portable core game isn't compatible with the $0.99 pricing that most of the iOS games have.
Epic is a special case because they had the support and featuring from Apple for pushing their hardware badly and to marketing purposes. Apple won't do the same with all core devs.
And obviously iOS controls aren't even decent for most core genres.
If console core devs don't adapt their budget, pricing, controls, genres and game size to the platform will strugle as some of them did. They won't succeed there with medium / big console like games, something that is more likely in Vita or 3DS.
I mean, GTA3 or Marvel vs Capcom 2 doesn't make sense in iOS, but Infinity Blade or the Monster Hunter Mobile fit in this market. If they don't adapt they won't get good numbers from iOS so they will get ride of it in the long term.
And regarding 3DS vs Vita, the mobile gaming publishers already announced their support to PS Suite. That means that is likely that Vita will get more phone gaming ports or new games than they got in Minis.
ScreenSplitter
Member
Well I mean the Gameboy exceeded the NES in many ways, when you consider Link's Awakening was before Link to the Past, it was miles better than Zelda 1. And it was a time when Nintendo respected portables as consoles of their own, Metroid II being on the Gameboy.
The 3DS is doing better than the DS did, so I don't really know how much of a factor iOS is.
I remember too well greatly anticipating "Zelda III" which became better known as Link to the Past, and LA afterwards and how it directly continued it (though the continuity crap following later games made THAT hazy until the official timeline came out and revealed the Oracle games retroactively took place between the two), but you still have a point with Metroid II, and Kid Icarus is in the same position. And... point on iOS, though I can't help but wonder if Nintendo's usual target audience renders it much more resistant, PSP aimed at teenagers/young adults more, and the Vita is too, but that audience is VERY keen on smartphones and similar devices these days.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Touch screen games are limited, and few if any 'core' gamers would go to iOS for core games, but the core audience is generally served by the 3DS, except for the small group that wouldn't buy anything but a Sony handheld.
I don't think there's necessarily anything specific separating the handheld crowds for Nintendo vs. Sony. It's more what the respective platform holders do with their platforms; Nintendo make Zelda and Mario games that have been scaled to be appropriate for handheld gaming, and treat them as equals to their home console releases, and deliver high profile handheld IPs like Nintendogs. Sony delivers spinoffs to their home console IPs, games that feel like they would've been better on a large TV screen, and some new IPs that may or may not be successful (Patapon ended up doing pretty good on the PSP IIRC). But so far the biggest differentiatior is third party support. We knew the 3DS had the backing of third parties, but we still don't know what third parties are planning for the Vita.
That thread only had piracy rates for a single Android game, but I'm fairly sure piracy rates on Android are way higher, since piracy on iOS requires you to jailbreak your iDevice, whereas the option to install apps from non-app store sources is basically a piracy mode built into the OS. Piracy on Android is easier than piracy on iOS, since you don't have to root your Android device to install pirated apps.
The iOS market is currently not suited for a lot of medium-sized 'console experience' games, but if developers did make such games, and priced them appropriately (obviously higher than $0.99, but not $40-$50 like a 'regular' handheld game), I could see them being successful. But the biggest hurdle is the lack of physical buttons.
The PS Suite is an interesting experiment. I hope it'll work out for Sony.
ScreenSplitter
Member
You could argue with MGS3D, Tekken 3D and Resident Evil, Nintendo's trying to cut in on the PSP's turf.
trading my modded psp3000 with video cable and memory card for a like-new vita with 8gb memory 
will probably pick up another psp3000 for like $50 in the near future
the seller on craigslist seems to be very gloom and doom about the vita which is why he's willing to do such a trade
will probably pick up another psp3000 for like $50 in the near future
the seller on craigslist seems to be very gloom and doom about the vita which is why he's willing to do such a trade
ScreenSplitter
Member
trading my modded psp3000 with video cable and memory card for a like-new vita with 8gb memory
will probably pick up another psp3000 for like $50 in the near future
the seller on craigslist seems to be very gloom and doom about the vita which is why he's willing to do such a trade
Wow. Pessimistic or not, that guy's plain dumb.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
It didn't take much wit to install anything on a PSP. Simply drag and drop some downloaded files into folders, and then activate it. You only needed to know what firmware you were running at the install the correct one. I personally didn't know of a single PSP owner that wasn't running some sort of custom firmware, and I'd wager they were the majority.
I even had a coworker who was offering to install CFW on other coworkers PSPs, plus a bunch of games for a price. So even those who were witless, or didn't feel like learning how to do so, were bringing their kid's PSP systems into work so he could do it. Given the choice between paying $40 per game or getting a shitload of the newest releases for a small fee, guess what the average Joe would rather do?
For a system that sold around 70 million units worldwide, the software sales were pathetic. I'd bet hardware sales would've been much less had the system not been so easy to hack and play free games on.
A very good portion of the games you listed are either ports or projects that we have seen absolutely nothing of beyond logo's or vaporware snippets. And even if you personally place value on some of those games, the likes of Killzone and Resistance have proven they're not system selling franchises. For Vita owners who have a particular interest in first person Sony franchises they're worthwhile releases, but they're not system sellers. Resistance especially is a franchise that consumers have proven they're just not interested in.
The one game up there you would say has the strongest potential to start shifting units is Call of Duty, but right now we know nothing about it or if it even exists. And even if it does, Sony have got to convince gamers to dump their 360 or PS3 in favour of spending £160+ on new hardware to play a portable version. There are absolutely no guarantees that people will flood to take that up.
Maybe this says more about my general disinterest in Sony's exclusives these days, but of that list only Gravity Rush, a port of a sports franchise and a port of a fighting game that has been on other systems for months previous even remotely interest me in terms of playing them on a Vita. I would say that if that list is the definitive list of reasons to buy a PlayStation Vita then Sony are in trouble, and I think it's pretty disingenuous to suggest people are only being critical because it's "intellectually easier" on that basis.
yurinka
Member
Animal Crossing, Blazblue, Contra, Crush, Dead or Alive, de Blob, F1, FIFA, Ghost Recon, Kindom Hearts, Lego stuff, Luigi's Mansion, Madden, Mario, Mario & Sonic, Mario Kart, Michael Jackson, Monster Hunter, Need for Speed, Paper Mario, PES, Pilotwings, Rayman, Ridge Racer, Shin Megami Tensei, Sims, Sonic, Splinter Cell, Street Fighter, Zelda...
Checking wikipedia there are a lot of examples more, they're also focusing in IPs from consoles or psp. For the 3DS learned from DS and the 'failure' handheld, instead of iOS. I wonder why. Maybe they don't consider it a failure.
Meanwhile Vita supports Minis and in the future PS Suite.ScreenSplitter
Member
Animal Crossing, Blazblue, Contra, Crush, Dead or Alive, de Blob, F1, FIFA, Ghost Recon, Kindom Hearts, Lego stuff, Luigi's Mansion, Madden, Mario, Mario & Sonic, Mario Kart, Michael Jackson, Monster Hunter, Need for Speed, Paper Mario, PES, Pilotwings, Rayman, Ridge Racer, Shin Megami Tensei, Sims, Sonic, Splinter Cell, Street Fighter, Zelda...
Checking wikipedia there are a lot of examples more, they're also focusing in IPs from consoles or psp. For the 3DS learned from DS and the 'failure' handheld, instead of iOS. I wonder why. Maybe they don't consider it a failure.
Add Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Theatrhythm, probably another more traditional Final Fantasy title, Beyond the Labyrinth, Project X Zone, etc. The list goes on.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
I feel like a lot of success Nintendo gets with their handhelds is directly related to this.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
They gave Vita the next numbered Hot Shots Golf, one of their biggest successes across PS2, PS3, and PSP.
I feel if the original team members made a game it still won't make a difference in comparison to Nintendo's handheld games. I will tell you why, games like GoW and Uncharted do not translate as well on handhelds. Even if Naughty Dog made Uncharted on Vita, the PS3/PS4 Uncharted will always look bigger and better due to the power of the hardware. Of course some people don't mind that and would like to play Uncharted on handheld, this is why Sony has other developers make the game while Naughty Dog concentrate on the consoles. I don't see the problem with this as long as the other developers do a good job, some people actually preffered Ghost of Sparta over GoW3, same with Resistance Retribution. However what Sony are lacking are those games that translate well to handhelds which Nintendo have. NSMB, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing all work well on handhelds. Also Nintendo have exclusive titles made for handhelds like Nintendogs, Brain Age, Pokemon and etc.
Sony will never have something as big as Pokemon, NSMB and Mario Kart so 3DS will outsell Vita no matter what. However Sony should attempt to create new IP that work well on handhelds like Nintendo did last gen with Brain Age and Nintendogs. Maybe Soul Sacrifice could be a new IP that takes things from Demon Souls series as well as Monstwer Hunter to make a great handheld, if this was the case that could be a huge hit that is made for handhelds. Sony have some IPs that translate to handhelds quite good, such as LittleBigPlanet, Gran Turismo, Jak and Daxter etc. So they should make quality sequels to those games on Vita. Of course there are some people that enjoy console type games on Vita so Uncharted and GoW isn't a bad idea on Vita, but it shouldn't be Sony's main focus. What I am saying is Uncharted and GoW mayybe okay as they are top selling IPs, but there is no point wasting resources creating a handheld spin off for Resistance, Killzone and etc, those games are not big sellers on console anyway and the handheld versions will most likely sell worse. Also Sony need to publis 3rd party games and have better marketing campaigns, they need to get games like Layton, Monster Hunter all aboard the Vita. Those are other examples of games made for handhelds.
Here are examples of what games work well on Vita
Uncharted - these types of games work better on consoles however, this is one of Sony's best selling IPs so it gets a pass
GoW - same as above
LittleBigPlanet - translated to handhelds quite well
WipeOut - same as above
Gran Turismo - this could be their killer app, but they need to make sure this time the game is as extensive as the console version with full career mode
Invizimals - this was a new IP sony created last gen for PSP, was a hit in Europe as it was made for handhelds with unique gameplay using AR
Monster Hunter - top seller for PSP
Layton - Big seller there is a reason Nintendo helps with publishing with this IP, these types of games work well on handhelds
Jak and Daxter- platformers work well on handhelds, Daxter was one of PSP's best sellers
Eyepet - can work well on a handheld, similar to nintendogs, they can use AR, mic as well as touch to interact with the pet
Buzz - quiz game, learning games, brain training and etc work well on handhelds, Sony need their own Brain Age, Picross.
Sony should look at Pokemon, Nintendogs, NSMB, Mario Kart, Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest IX, Animal Crossing, Brain Age, Layton and etc. These games have many things in common, simplicity as in they are accessible to casuals. The games would always work better on handhelds due to the nature of the games. The games are pick up and play, don't have huge narrative/story and don't rely on graphics to shine. There is some addictive nature about the games such as the trading and collecting in Pokemon, the co-op in Monster Hunter and etc. The gameplay is simple yet it can be deep, Pokemon battles are simple and anyone can play but you can get deep into it and have crazy strategies. Sony need to create a IP like these to be successfull, unfortunately Sony doesn't have many IPs that work like this right now (only LittleBigPlanet, WipeOut, Gran Turismo, with only GT being the big seller out of those). Where as Nintendo have Mario, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing, they get 3rd party titles like Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter, Layton, Phoenix Wright and and etc that work well with handhelds. They create new IPs for handhelds exclusively such as Pokemon, Brain Age and Nintendogs.
So in conclusion this is what Sony need to do
- Don't make console spin off of games that rely on narrative, graphics and immersion, of course a few here and there is okay such as Uncharted and GoW, but stop doing this with every PS3 IP, cause people will just say I'd rather play on the big screen
- Look at Sony's current IP's they hold and release quality sequels for the Vita, LittleBigPlanet, Gran Trurismo, Jak and Daxter all would work on handhelds, they should be quality sequels with full career mode for GT, full creator for LittleBigPlanet. The PSP versions of both those titles were lacking full feature set.
- Create new IP that are simple yet addictive, pick up and play and work well on handhelds, Invizimals is a good example, but they should create more such as say a Demon Soul's clone except make it more pick up and play like Monster Hunter.
- Get more 3rd party support for games that work well on handhelds, Layton, Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright, Torchlight, Lumines, Sonic, Burnout and etc work well on handhelds.
- More bigger marketing push, Nintendo did this with NSMB, Dragon Quest, and etc.
Agent X
Member
SM3DL is a spinoff. You could even say it's a spinoff of a spinoff (Super Mario Land was never considered a "main" Super Mario Bros. game, even back in the day). That doesn't mean it's a bad game at all, but it just shoots holes in the notion that a game that isn't strictly positioned in the mainline series cannot possibly be worthwhile (see Killzone: Liberation for a good example that was also done by the series' "main" developer).
But don't worry, folks...if Sony puts a "main" entry for an established franchise on the Vita, then the usual detractors will be the first to complain that "Sony shouldn't be putting 'console' games on a handheld, they need original games tailored to the mobile experience". We saw these complaints when they transitioned mainline series to the PSP (Twisted Metal, Wipeout, Syphon Filter).
Then when they put out original games, we hear the same bellyachers moan about how "these aren't the big system-selling franchises".
If Sony doesn't assign the original series' main developer on the PSP/Vita game, then they're hounded for handing the franchise off to a "B-team" to make a throwaway game.
If Sony does assign the original series' main developer on the PSP/Vita game, then they're instead hounded for wasting the developer on a throwaway game, and the developer (no matter what they've accomplished in the past) is instantly demoted and relegated to "B-team" status since they're merely devoting their efforts to a portable system (see Studio Liverpool and Bend Studio for examples).
So no matter how Sony approaches portable video game development, they can never win in these people's eyes. Got it.
RoninChaos
Member
I just wish they'd turn on support for PSOne classics, but I'm getting the feeling they aren't going to do that. Instead, I'm sure we'll get some vita "remasters" of the same classics so people will buy them over again.
magicalsoundshower
Member
Maybe I'm reading your post wrong but actually Link's Awakening came out almost two years after ALttP.
ScreenSplitter
Member
Well I'll be fucked, so it did! Had the dates mixed up.
RoninChaos
Member
Isn't part of the issue that a lot of PSP games focused more on being console like rather than playing to the specifics of the platform? Which created this situation where people were like "Why would I play this, when I can play it on my console at home?" It always felt like big console franchises that had handheld counter parts were always dumbed down versions of what you could get on home consoles. Even the GTA games, which were pretty good, PALED in comparison to what was on the consoles. Same with the God Of War games, even though those were pretty okay, they didn't do anything new or better than the mainline titles. Assassin's creed was garbage, etc.
I think that what someone else said here was a bit true about how Nintendo treats it's DS games holds true; they develop those games and make them good games, with the thought that they're on a portable system is a distant second to the fact that they simply want to make a good game. That's where I felt the PSP failed, big time. It was like developers were going "Okay, we're going to try this portable thing, and see what we can do with it, but we're going to hold back a bit" and we got some second tier versions of triple AAA titles like GTA.
The Vita system itself has some glaring design flaws, in my opinion, that are keeping it from being truly awesome. The key being no on-board memory and bullshit installs, but that's another conversation.
Part of me wonders if the market has shifted in such a way that making games more portable rather than trying to clone a console experience is is the key to selling systems. For instance, I'm not sure I'd enjoy a Phoenix Wright game on my home consoles. Same with a game like 999, or Professor Layton. There are games like New Super Mario Bros. which would work either way, but there are quite a few titles on handhelds that I enjoy because they were on handhelds, I could play at my own pace, whether it was for hours or just for 15 minutes.
I also think the handheld space allows for those kinds of games that can thrive, and make money, where as doing console lite versions of games may just be another way the industry fucks up how portables work. I don't want something like CoD coming out on portables and then shifting the way the portable market works, by making other developers think they have to do everything bigger, better looking etc instead of making a good game. And the Vita is kind of poised to be the system that does that if it takes off, especially with the hardware behind it. Uncharted looks incredible, and I hope games like that don't attract an audience to the handhelds that in turn, makes developers think that they have to run the same rat race they're doing now with consoles. THe same rat race that's causing a lot of devs to go under.
Agent X
Member
The thing is, the end result varied from one game to another. Some console games were adapted poorly to the PSP, but others were adapted really well.
The God of War games, for example, were tuned very nicely to the PSP capabilities and controls. They remained faithful to the PS2/PS3 games, but were not ports of any of them--they were their own standalone games, of very high quality. Even though they were not developed directly by Santa Monica Studio, they were developed by Ready at Dawn with the assistance and guidance of Santa Monica Studio, and as such maintained consistency of gameplay and storyline canon. They never felt like cheap throwaway games.
Whether they would have been "better console games" is irrelevant. For a long time, they were only available on the PSP (until last year's release of God of War Origins Collection). Therefore, if you burned through GoW1/2/3 and wanted another healthy dose of Kratos' blade-swinging action, you had to play on PSP.
Similar things could be said now of a game like Uncharted: Golden Abyss. Would it have been a better game on PS3? Maybe, or maybe not...but the fact of the matter is that it's not on PS3, and it plays very well on the system that it was released on. Maybe they'll port it to PS3 next year, or maybe they'll port it to PS4 in three years...but until then, if you want to experience this Nathan Drake adventure, then you either do so on Vita, or you sit this one out entirely.
A good game is a good game, regardless of platform. It's funny seeing people claim that they "don't want certain games on portables", but when those games are released, they're port-begging for a home console version.
Developers are always going to raise the bar, whether it's on a home console or a portable. If Uncharted didn't raise the bar, then some Unreal Engine game on iOS or Android might have done so instead. Thankfully, we now have digital download platforms which are constantly being refined. This enables a vast variety of games to coexist--massive games, tiny games, and all sorts of games in between.
The Vita having very powerful hardware doesn't raise game development costs for anyone. It enables bigger and better looking games to be developed, but it doesn't impede smaller or less ambitious games in any way.
They've already said they would add PS1 emulation, so no, they aren't doing PS1 remasters. It just seems they are first focusing on getting the PSP support side of things better, still plenty of PSP games that don't work yet.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Both Nintendo and Sony need to do a better job of getting stuff like PS1 Classics and Virtual Console stuff out at a more breakneck pace. Plus more games like Mutant Blobs and Mutant Mudds need to be put out on regular intervals as well. Then at least if we don't have a ton of big name physical releases we have other downloadable stuff to look forward to in the interim.
Ken Masters
Banned
that's not strong at all
staticneuron
Member
Well, to me the main difference is really the type of game promoted. People continue to talk about the games for handhelds versus those that are "meant" for a console. What I have noticed, is that they are talking about pick up and play/semi casual games versus those story based cinematic engrossing affairs. The type of games on nintendo handhelds aren't really that much of a leap from what is on the home console, so it seems odd for people to try to point that out as a negative thing for the Sony yet not address that for nintendo.
My take on that.... is that is what people wanted when they purchased a PSP and that is what they want when they purchase a vita. And that is putting aside the concept of favored franchises. It seems as if some people feel that heavier story based/focused games should stay on consoles only. That is a projection, that I don't think has "ever" rang true.
Looking at some of the best selling titles on the PSP is a clue on what is favored. Aside from epic titles that don't really have an end like monster hunter and Gran turismo. We have games like GTA: liberty city stories, vice city stories, daxter, crisis core and these are story based affairs. People want certain experience on the go. And while the Vita and the 3DS will provide a more console like experience, the next issue is the line up. Which imo, is what defines what is going to happen. As far as 3rd party support I am sure we will hear more about it at E3. Given all the hints being dropped it seems as if it will be very interesting.
Thats what it seems like to me.
Because most play handhelds when they are NOT at home. And the issue of course was power, but considering what the PSP could do at the time, if the people criticizing were seriously complaining about it not looking like a PS3 version, then there is something wrong with the critics. Logic falls apart when using this argument.
The installs have been a problem for you?
I consider these two connected because I have a library of unique PSP games. And it always brings home the fact that alot of people criticizing the PSP aren't really that familiar with its titles. Short of listing some titles here, the only problem I see with the PSP was perception. There were alot of ports, people used the ports to disparage the console and because of that people don't seem to realize the sheer amount of games on the PSP that have not made it onto other consoles. But the sales showed what people wanted. People like those console-like experiences on the go. That is why some of the best selling titles are console game spin offs and not the unique IP that have graced the system.
nolookjones
Member
sony needs to start hyping the vita...stop being so secret about games/apps that are coming out in the future...right now there is not much to look forward too imo...
nolookjones
Member
we need a massive leak right about now...
Or you could play some more Super Stardust HD.
I've never had as many good games on a system in its first 2 months. When PS3 came out, I had Resistance, Ridge Racer 7 and the downloadable game Blast Factor. It wasn't until summer 2007 that PS3 started picking up steam. Xbox360 had a similar trajectory.
Stop worrying, play some Uncharted.
nolookjones
Member
agreed it was a strong launch lineup but sony has to keep the momentum going...
already finished uncharted but working on rayman,wipeout and ssd...
charlequin
Banned
Sony are criticized for both of these things because they're both problems.
Nintendo have, for whatever reason, done very well in straddling the handheld/console divide. (Arguably, this is because they're actually much better at supporting handhelds than consoles in the first place.) They start by picking franchises that are well-suited to handheld games; they have them developed by the same teams that make the console titles, with similar budgets and standards of quality; they release them far away from the console equivalents so the same game doesn't compete with itself on two platforms; and they adapt the gameplay to better fit the handheld model.
You can see this in franchises like Mario (where new DS/3DS entries are just as much "real Mario games"), or Fire Emblem (which is more a handheld than console franchise at this point), or Zelda (where the visually impressive and "realistic" entries head to consoles while the simpler entries hit handhelds.) Sony has never applied a similar strategy, in part because they have more franchises that don't adapt well to handhelds and in part because they don't want to "waste" their best devs' efforts on portable titles, and that's what people are criticizing.
The God of War games are a perfect example of this. It's not that they're bad, it's just that the only portable adaptation is that they're very slight and lacking in content compared to the console titles.
Also, don't do this "some people" routine. If you want to talk about the actual points people are making, do that; don't start yelping about being mistreated by invisible fans. Making snarky claims about hypocrisy is especially frowned upon unless you can point to the same person actually arguing two opposing positions rather than just ascribing both to a vague, unidentified group of people.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
TAILOR THE EXPERIENCE FOR A HANDHELD :O
OMG what an insane strategy!!!
lots of license challenges, lots of 3 lap short course races, focus on a grinding system heading towards a goal of getting more cars, online leaderboards for time trials, etc etc.
GT PSP was a disaster but that's no reason to think a properly focused handheld GT cannot set the world alight.
I can't wait for the "bu bu bu..." when all the "ports" for Vita turn out to be original games... the rush to "B-team efforts!" will cause sonic booms.
Well there is definitely a huge problem here,the 3DS in it's first year even with the bad sales and lack of games still got tons of new game announcements each month, Vita didn't, even in the weekly famitsu thread it's very rare to see new Vita game,and that tell a lot on Vita future, it's just not looking good..
Sony itself is weird too,They announced GOW:A for PS3 and the new GTTV game is also for PS3, not sure if they gave up already or they save their games for a relaunch or something.
Sony itself is weird too,They announced GOW:A for PS3 and the new GTTV game is also for PS3, not sure if they gave up already or they save their games for a relaunch or something.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
The whole reason I brought up GTA (along with Final Fantasy and MGS) was to give an example of Sony going after big name third party franchises for PSP. At the time GTA LCS was released it WAS exclusive to PSP. There were no other announced versions, so here was Sony getting one of the biggest third party franchises on their portable, and I think it helped very little.
It certainly didn't move enough units to please Rockstar hence the reason they decided to port the game over to PS2. Was it originally intended to appear on PS2? I really don't think so, but just like RE4, when the target system failed to get the sales they ported to PS2.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
week on week, there's been a ton of Vita coverage in Famitsu. Not that it's helped the situation, i just want to clarify that there's a difference between what we see in the Famitsu thread and what is -actually in- famitsu.
please remove Monster Hunter from the "holy trinity" then, right?
regarding "exclusives" it's not as simple as that.
I'd be honestly shocked if Rockstar had not brought up the idea of porting GTA:LCS to PS2 well before the PSP release.
So you're saying the GameCube version should've sold more copies than it did months before it was released on GameCube. Seems reasonable.
The PS2 version was to satisfy investors who couldn't let such a marquee title be sent to exclusivity on the GameCube. That and I think Mikami had lost a lot of pull with Capcom by that point, too. Therefore, his desire to avoid PS2 was not important enough to cater to.
Regardless, if you're proposing that GTA:LCS was ported to PS2 due to lack of sufficient sales on PSP, then that situation is not analogous, at all, to the RE4 GCN/PS2 situation.
nolookjones
Member
I'm sure Rockstar always had plans for a PS2 version...they need a vita rockstar announcement soon...
Sony should have to announce something new with every firmware update...
With the PSP library and good launch titles i'm really not in need of new games. Disgaea 3 and Gravity Rush are really enough till the eventual E3 announcements.
The launch and post launch by Sony has just been abysmal though. It's like they don't realize they just launched a new system. The Vita store has been bsrren, still no PS plus integration and the PSP seems to have better integration with the PS3 then Vita, which should have been designed and had all that built into it.
Seriously, get some hype videos up on the Vita store, get some PS plus support, more remote play support, give me a freaking reason to go to the PSN store on my Vita every week, get some ebooks/comic store up on this thing, stop pretending the Vita doesn't exist and replaying the same, ONLY commercial you made for the damn thing.
The launch and post launch by Sony has just been abysmal though. It's like they don't realize they just launched a new system. The Vita store has been bsrren, still no PS plus integration and the PSP seems to have better integration with the PS3 then Vita, which should have been designed and had all that built into it.
Seriously, get some hype videos up on the Vita store, get some PS plus support, more remote play support, give me a freaking reason to go to the PSN store on my Vita every week, get some ebooks/comic store up on this thing, stop pretending the Vita doesn't exist and replaying the same, ONLY commercial you made for the damn thing.
DiscoJer
Member
What's worse, is they cost themselves a lot of sales IMHO because when VCS came out on the PSP, not nearly as many people bought it because they knew that it would be on the PS2 a few months later for half the price.
That's really one thing that has hurt the PSP (and Vita) I think - the same games on it costing much more compared to other platforms. The Ubisoft/Gameloft games for instance, or Plants vs Zombies.
staticneuron
Member
It's all about perception. So when we get into conversations like this when referring to first party franchises, what does it matter if the same team works on the title, if the end result is still good? Nintendo's tokyo EAD is broken into 8 different teams/groups. 5 of those teams are responsible for different mario titles released on the Wii, the DS and the 3DS. Can you tell me which teams did what off the top of your head?
Uncharted for the vita was not done by ND but was deved by bend studio. Their history speaks for their quality but simply because they aren't the team that started the uncharted franchise they aren't a good enough to create an entry?
I find most of these arguments somewhat disingenuous and when regarding PSP titles designed for handheld play simply ill informed. There are over 700 titles released for the PSP and while I will agree the first two years did the console no favors, for the rest of the time on the market, many titles came out that worked well for portable play but were new instead of popular and familiar.
Can you please be more specific. I didn't play both games, I only played Chains of olympus but I personally thought it was a great game for the PSP, the ratings were high, What exactly did you find lacking of the title or titles?
Agent X
Member
Sorry, I don't see it that way. I tend to take things on a case-by-case basis, rather than pigeonhole everything into simplified terms.
Just looking at the PSP (for historical perspective, since Vita hasn't been out long enough to have a large number of examples), there are numerous instances where the original developer of a franchise handled the PSP game, and numerous others where they were handed off to other developers (sometimes first-party, sometimes third-party).
For games done by the original developers, some have turned out very well, and others not so well.
For games handed off to other developers, some have turned out very well, and others not so well.
Good point, but I'd say Sony has done the same on many occasions. They did this with Wipeout and Twisted Metal at the PSP launch (and again with Wipeout at the Vita launch), as well as with Syphon Filter about a year after PSP launch. All of those games were critically praised, especially in the cases of Wipeout and Syphon Filter which hit their low points on their PS2 entries a couple of years prior.
For games that weren't done by the original developers, but handed off to quality developers, look at the God of War, LittleBigPlanet, and Resistance games on PSP. All of these were great games, and all successfully captured the look and feel of the PS2/PS3 games while also working within the portable format.
You're right, I shouldn't have pulled "some people" here, but I have seen many conflicting comments, and just haven't had time to look them all up. But I'll try to avoid this.
My point is that Sony has put their "A-teams" on mainline games on PSP, some of which turned out very well--and at the same time they've also tried to concoct new, original games for portable play (LocoRoco, Patapon, Pursuit Force). I don't consider teams that are primarily working on portable games to be automatically reduced to "B-teams" solely out of virtue of their games being portable games, but I have seen people jump to that conclusion (for example, posts 133 & 134 in this thread). Sony takes flak for not putting their so called "A-teams" on mainline entries on handhelds, but in instances where they've done it, this is somehow regarded as a demotion to the team (not by fans, but by detractors). You can't have it both ways. You might not want Sony to treat their portables as second-class systems, but you also can't broadly label studios who excel and/or specialize in portable development as "second-class developers" just because they're dedicated to portables.
Jaded Alyx
Member
Noooooo.
The PS2 version was announced before the GameCube version even released. Hence the uproar.
charlequin
Banned
The "perception" is that this is how Sony's handheld efforts compare to Nintendo's. Whether or not this perception is entirely warranted, it exists and it exists for a reason. If the goal is to drive Vita sales, Sony needs to be actively accelerating away from this problem to make the system into one with "must-have" (not just "must-have for a handheld") titles.
Not when the franchise you're talking about is Uncharted and the level of quality you're aiming to deliver on is that of Uncharted 2, no, it's not. (This is putting aside that having to do B-list Uncharted keeps Bend from working on franchises that their talents are better suited to.)
The PSP has a fantastic library, it's just that after the first GTA and GOW releases it never got anything else with meaningful Western appeal or very much significant support from Sony themselves.
The PSP games are both extremely short, with far less unique content (stages, bosses, etc.) than the PS2/PS3 games.
You're right to identify that there are a number of counter-examples here. Wipeout and Syphon FIlter on PSP are definitely examples of doing things right (and I also feel that both Patapon and Locoroco are serious efforts to create new, original content on the system that's suited to it.)
Leona Lewis
Banned
Yes.
Syphon Filter: DM was the first PSP game that really blew me away. It was so full-featured and was doing things most online console games at the time weren't bothering with, let alone handhelds.
I still remember my first time doing 8-player Team Deathmatch with voice chat in that huge, seamless Shanty Town map. And the single player was incredibly well-structured, with bite-sized but satisfying missions and creative tasks (fond memories of that taser).
How I wish Sony Bend could finally have their moment to shine :-(
It could but that's what everyone thought GT PSP was supposed to be. So what made GT PSP into a disaster? Was it not because it seems PD is not putting enough effort into the game and putting all the effort into GT5 instead? Based on the experience, how can we expect another GT portable game not be half-assed?
I haven't heard a notable game announced in Famitsu for a while since most of them not going to sell 50K in Japan and most likely not being released in the west.
This actually highlighted the other issue Sony has - they haven't been able to create a blockbuster new title since GT. Uncharted and God of War have become pretty big IP but never reach the blockbuster level that can significantly drive hardware sales. In addition, as mentioned above, Sony screwed up on their first portable attempt of their biggest IP. No wonder the perception is that Sony doesn't put their best effort on their handheld.
staticneuron
Member
well.....
This brings up interesting issues. I didn't catch this at first but it seems as if it is expected for Sony to carry the weight instead of supplement. Sony has never really operated that way for any of its consoles, so why would it be expected for the handhelds.
Also the Syphon Filter and even the new IP (I love locoroco) doesn't seem to be among the million sellers for the system. To be more to the point' all of them either have graced consoles before or is a spin off of a popular console franchise.
How should Sony and third party companies react when they see that. If you are aware of the numerous new IP for the PSP, how do you think this plays out when they look at the numbers. I am sure none of the companies will abandon new IP but they are certainly going to develop games that seemingly did well in the last gen, which makes what alot of what people are complaining about seemingly in this thread, will get worse. What is going to be interesting is if it will "work" this time around. If western developed games and shooters lead the pack for Vita, I imagine we will see a similar situation again.
Leona Lewis
Banned
Well, one issue is that Sony utterly failed to advertise gems like Syphon Filter and Loco Roco. Million sellers don't just sell themselves, they have the full faith and support of the publisher behind them.
Instead we got spazzed out squirrels making nut puns :-|
Instead we got spazzed out squirrels making nut puns :-|
- Status