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[BlazeHedgehog]

Seriously? Only the models are improved. DS version is pretty pixelated. :/

That's because of texture filtering, but it's worth mentioning that all the textures in the DS version are actually higher resolution and higher detail than their N64 counterparts. A lot of the textures in the original Mario 64 were often 8x8, 16x16, or if they were feeling REALLY daring, 32x32.

A lot of textures in the DS version are twice that size, but they aren't filtered. If they were, it would be pretty obvious just how much better the game looks. You can actually use an emulator to turn off texture filtering in N64 games, and, well...

Obviously this isn't a super sound argument because nobody plays N64 games with the texture filtering off (that's silly), but still... the DS one has much better texture work in general, I feel.

 

[gerudoman]

I think I spent more time playing the minigames than the proper adventure, they were really fun. Still don't understand why they included them, but I'm not going to complain.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I'm pretty surprised by how many people prefer the original's graphics. When I booted the DS version up for the first time I was blown away by how much they had actually improved, I thought it was going to be a barebones port with some minigames thrown in. Not only did they heavily rework almost all the character models and textures, but they included 20 (I think?) extra stars and three more playable characters to boot.

The controls aren't *as* good which is a bummer (although the N64's analog stick is Nintendo's worst by a large margin; forgivable since it was the first ever, but since we're comparing things...) However I do think it's the definitive version.

Although I don't rank SM64 too highly in the series pantheon, I think it deserves a port with Sunshine/Galaxy/+ level graphics. It's the only 3D Mario without them. (DS version is in a weird place between the original and Sunshine, hewing closer to the 64 version obviously.)

 

[Red UFO]

Remember that stupid nub thing they put on the strap on the original DS? They expected you to use that plus the touch screen for analogue control. Amazing.

 

[-KRS-]

I didn't have much issues with the controls. To the people who complained about turning around, didn't you just press back and Mario would immediately be facing 180 degrees the other way? Or does he like, walk in a circle until he turned? I don't remember but I seem to recall the former being the case.

Also I loved the fact that, just like the original, this game is full of hilarious glitches. All I can find now is this but there used to be a gamefaqs wiki for Super Mario 64 DS which had a list of all the glitches they found and it was several hundred entries long. Anyone know what happened with that faq? Seems like most of the big ones are on that wiki though. My favorite was the one in Frozen Snowman's Land.

 

[WordAssassin]

I don't know that Nintendo would ever do it but I would absolutely triple-dip and buy a Definitive Version remastered for the 3DS. They could even just do the barebones port of the DS game but change the controls to work with the Thumb Pad and add the 3D effect and I'd be sold.

 

[TheContact]

Yeah it's a very fun port. Playing with different characters really opens the game up a lot, even with the nostalgia

 

[Bear]

That's because of texture filtering, but it's worth mentioning that all the textures in the DS version are actually higher resolution and higher detail than their N64 counterparts. A lot of the textures in the original Mario 64 were often 8x8, 16x16, or if they were feeling REALLY daring, 32x32.

A lot of textures in the DS version are twice that size, but they aren't filtered. If they were, it would be pretty obvious just how much better the game looks. You can actually use an emulator to turn off texture filtering in N64 games, and, well...

Obviously this isn't a super sound argument because nobody plays N64 games with the texture filtering off (that's silly), but still... the DS one has much better texture work in general, I feel.

Completely this. I don't think anyone can deny that the DS game is technically superior.

I can understand preferring how the N64 game looks, especially if you grew up with it, but that pretty much just boils down to whether you can tolerate blurry textures over pixelated ones. Strictly in terms of detail, the DS version is the clear winner.

Not only did they heavily rework almost all the character models and textures, but they included 20 (I think?) extra stars and three more playable characters to boot.

There were an extra 30 stars, since it was 150 total.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The problem isn't the D-Pad. per se. The problem is that the controls were mangled in their attempts to work with the D-Pad.

Mario 64 was designed on the foundation of having full 3D analog control. That was reduced to 8 directions with no analog input, and necessitated the addition of a run-button. But in the process, the physics also took a dive with the characters having a very strange momentum that is nothing like the original game. The 3DS's Circle Pad addresses NONE of these problems.

Agreed, Super Mario 64 showed off two of the strong features of the N64: full 360 degrees and analog controls as well as prettier filtered textures removing nasty surface aliasing/shimmering from far away textures as well as blocky ness of textures when viewed up close. This game went from super awesome 3D platformer to a very good 3D platformer. Awesome mini games though, but the game played on a D-Pad with a run button was a bit insulting to the N64's legacy and to SM64's legacy too.

 

[Panajev2001a]

That's because of texture filtering, but it's worth mentioning that all the textures in the DS version are actually higher resolution and higher detail than their N64 counterparts. A lot of the textures in the original Mario 64 were often 8x8, 16x16, or if they were feeling REALLY daring, 32x32.

A lot of textures in the DS version are twice that size, but they aren't filtered. If they were, it would be pretty obvious just how much better the game looks. You can actually use an emulator to turn off texture filtering in N64 games, and, well...

Obviously this isn't a super sound argument because nobody plays N64 games with the texture filtering off (that's silly), but still... the DS one has much better texture work in general, I feel.

Higher resolution textures and low screen resolution mean that surface aliasing/texture shimmering actually worsens though and it is something quite annoying IMHO.

Edit: unless the DS port was using mip-mapping which I cannot exclude and would reduce this problem and improve performance.

 

[Currygan]

I remember having some issues with the controls, but once I tried the thumb strip everything went smooth as butter

 

[Storm Prelude]

I found it pretty awesome when I bought it in 2005, a good rehash indeed.
Yes, controls are not excellent but with the 3DS analog the problem is gone.
There's just one little bad thing but I hope that's exclusive to my country: Mario 64 DS sealed is still 39,90€, like 8 years ago.

 

[M3d10n]

Higher resolution textures and low screen resolution mean that surface aliasing/texture shimmering actually worsens though and it is something quite annoying IMHO.

Edit: unless the DS port was using mip-mapping which I cannot exclude and would reduce this problem and improve performance.

So I guess you never actually saw it running on a DS, right? The DS didn't support mip maps, but there's barely no shimmering because most textures have soft pastel, low-contrast details. Many levels also have a subtle fog that smooths the contrast for distant textures.

And finally, the DS version had antialiasing on the polygons' edges (which is not visible in the emulator shot above). The game is far from a pixelated mess and you'll won't notice the lack of filtering most of the time unless you're actively looking for it, specially if you played it on the DS Phat, with had softer colors (the game becomes slightly over-saturated on the DS Lite).

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Higher resolution textures and low screen resolution mean that surface aliasing/texture shimmering actually worsens though and it is something quite annoying IMHO.

Edit: unless the DS port was using mip-mapping which I cannot exclude and would reduce this problem and improve performance.

While the textures are higher resolution I don't think they're so high res that shimmering is a problem.

Alternatively, that is also solved by the Mario 64 DS's lower contrast, more muted color palette.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Now I'm not really sure what version of Mario 64 I should play.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Now I'm not really sure what version of Mario 64 I should play.

I'd say you can't go wrong with the VC version.

 

[cvxfreak]

I was very impressed with the DS remake when I bought it at launch in 2004. They did the best they could with the controls, while adding all sorts of new content that would, in my opinion, be of fun and interest to players of the original.

Most of the reason I was impressed was because the NES/SNES to GBA ports were far more conservative in terms of new content.

These days, I'd rather replay the N64 version since it controls better and there are preferable portable Mario games than SM64DS, but the DS version is not a bad choice by any means either.

 

[Kokonoe]

Oddly enough, I didn't have issues with the DPad, it's just everything else about the port that I dislike.

I do have to say, the little Delfino Island was pretty nifty, though.

 

[Panajev2001a]

So I guess you never actually saw it running on a DS, right?

My DSPhat, DS Lite, DSi, and 3DS (across the years) do beg to differ . It is the first game I test on a new system actually, but thanks for jumping to conclusions .
I actually remember being very happy about the DS Lite when running this game because the colors, grass especially, changed dramatically and for the better.

The DS didn't support mip maps, but there's barely no shimmering because most textures have soft pastel, low-contrast details. Many levels also have a subtle fog that smooths the contrast for distant textures.

I forgot if it supported them or not, it was not an archaic chipset. Even an older chipset like PS2 was supposed to support mip-mapping, but it was not too usable on it unfortunately ( not considering the surface's angle to the camera, but just distance to the camera).

Yes, I do remember some textures changed, even inside the castle like the checkerboard textures on the ground. The look of them appeared to be pre-filtered/blurrier with high frequency data removed. So, yes they were using higher resolution textures but they axed some of the data out first.

And finally, the DS version had antialiasing on the polygons' edges (which is not visible in the emulator shot above). The game is far from a pixelated mess and you'll won't notice the lack of filtering most of the time unless you're actively looking for it, specially if you played it on the DS Phat, with had softer colors (the game becomes slightly over-saturated on the DS Lite).

I like oversaturated colors (must be all those SEGA consoles I played on when I was younger ) so I actually thought that the game running on the DS Lite looked better , it appeared to have a palette a bit closer to what I remember on the N64 and I can see on the game running inside its Virtual Console emulator.
I did not say that this game was a pixelated mess, I did not even call it a mess, but yes it was pixelated and appeared so even on the original DS back when I bought them. The lack of filtering made skyboxes and the snow levels much less pleasing to look at, but that's another story. Some people might notice it less in that game, but I do when I play it and again I prefer the way it looks on the N64 than on the DS, personal preferences and all...

 

[G0523]

That's because of texture filtering, but it's worth mentioning that all the textures in the DS version are actually higher resolution and higher detail than their N64 counterparts. A lot of the textures in the original Mario 64 were often 8x8, 16x16, or if they were feeling REALLY daring, 32x32.

A lot of textures in the DS version are twice that size, but they aren't filtered. If they were, it would be pretty obvious just how much better the game looks. You can actually use an emulator to turn off texture filtering in N64 games, and, well...

Obviously this isn't a super sound argument because nobody plays N64 games with the texture filtering off (that's silly), but still... the DS one has much better texture work in general, I feel.

I'm kinda curious now to see what SM64DS would look like with the texture filtering on. Is that even possible for someone to do?

 

[ScreenSplitter]

The game was amazing back in 2004. The sheer novelty of playing a polygonal game on a tiny handheld, especially one as good as 64. I also never played the original, but outside of analog control it seems to be inferior on every level.

C'mon, it made "L is Real" REAL. It even put the entrance to Luigi's level by that statue. That's pretty damn cool.

EDIT: Would buy a 3DS remake with 3D Land's graphics in a second.

 

[Panajev2001a]

While the textures are higher resolution I don't think they're so high res that shimmering is a problem.

Alternatively, that is also solved by the Mario 64 DS's lower contrast, more muted color palette.

True, the palette changed... another thing I liked less about the port.

The camera is quite a bit close to the ground here, but it shows:

1.) that you can see the lack of filtering quite easily (even worse on the skyboxes, see the snow levels).

2.) the difference in textures used (like you were saying) and I do prefer SM64's ones even though they might be lower resolution ones.


Edit:

Small picture, but if you look on the bottom right of the left image you can see once again the "retouched" ground texture. Again, overall if we are not talking about Mario's model I prefer the picture on the right.

Another in which the lack of texture filtering is very evident:

 

[Panajev2001a]

The game was amazing back in 2004. The sheer novelty of playing a polygonal game on a tiny handheld, especially one as good as 64. I also never played the original, but outside of analog control it seems to be inferior on every level.

C'mon, it made "L is Real" REAL. It even put the entrance to Luigi's level by that statue. That's pretty damn cool.

EDIT: Would buy a 3DS remake with 3D Land's graphics in a second.

I do have to say that the 3D models in general were all improved (using less polygons too at times IIRC). Some models like Bowser's one looked vastly better.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

I do have to say that the 3D models in general were all improved (using less polygons too at times IIRC). Some models like Bowser's one looked vastly better.

As per Ocarina 3D, they actually bear some semblance to the concept art, where the original M64 Mario looks like a yellow skinned bloated mess.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I'm kinda curious now to see what SM64DS would look like with the texture filtering on. Is that even possible for someone to do?

It's probably possible, but to my knowledge it's nothing any of the emulators seem interested in accomplishing. DeSmuME and iDeaS seem primarily concerned with 1:1 rendering in the games' original resolution. I'm not entirely sure they even use GPU hardware acceleration at all, it might be doing straight software rendering given the fact both emulators seem to recommend a minimum of a dual core processor.

Which is a shame, really.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It's probably possible, but to my knowledge it's nothing any of the emulators seem interested in accomplishing. DeSmuME and iDeaS seem primarily concerned with 1:1 rendering in the games' original resolution. I'm not entirely sure they even use GPU hardware acceleration at all, it might be doing straight software rendering given the fact both emulators seem to recommend a minimum of a dual core processor.

Which is a shame, really.

A new texture pack would also be useful as the DS version's textures look to have been pre-processed to soften them up and reduce the pixelation once stretched and point-sampled.

 

[bengraven]

I really need to get a 3DS.

Anyone want to buy me one?

 

[Jacobi]

Does anyone have screenshots of the ds version in an emulator? That would be an interesting comparison...

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Does anyone have screenshots of the ds version in an emulator? That would be an interesting comparison...

You mean like these?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44976532&postcount=152

 

[Aquamarine]

Does anyone have screenshots of the ds version in an emulator? That would be an interesting comparison...

I searched the web and found a couple of comparison screenshots straight from an emulator / direct feed (they were in .png so I assume there was no extra compression added). Here they are in direct comparison to each other:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161532

 

[Zomba13]

Yes. I thinks it's really great with a lot of bonus content. The Multiplayer is really simple but it's fun. And the minigames are great.

I may have spent more time playing the bob-omb slingshot minigame than the actual game...

 

[jbueno]

Loved both versions, I played SM64 DS back in 2005 in my Electric Blue DS phat using only the Dpad and managed to beat it with 150 stars and did not have any problem with the controls, though I prefer playing the N64 version to be honest. I wouldn't recommend the DS version if you're playing on a DS Lite or DSi because their Dpads aren't as good as the original DS.

 

[eternalb]

Now I'm not really sure what version of Mario 64 I should play.

When in doubt, always go with the original. You know, the one that actually earned all the praise.

 

[evilromero]

I really need to get a 3DS.

Anyone want to buy me one?

$129 at Target this week.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

It's really good as long as you have a 3DS to use the circle pad. I hardly played it on DS because I hated using the D-Pad so bad.

 

[luka]

I'm pretty surprised by how many people prefer the original's graphics. When I booted the DS version up for the first time I was blown away by how much they had actually improved, I thought it was going to be a barebones port with some minigames thrown in. Not only did they heavily rework almost all the character models and textures, but they included 20 (I think?) extra stars and three more playable characters to boot.

There is something to be said for the kind of visual cohesiveness that is borne from a machine's limitations - the 'improved' mario/bowser/etc models look extremely out of place to me against the very sparse, low poly worlds. Also on an entirely personal view, the original models have a kind of simple, abstracted charm that makes the game feel very unique and surreal compared to other games in the series.

The much bigger issue I have with the DS visuals is how muted it is. The N64 game is still wonderful to look at entirely because of it's high contrast/low detail textures, incredibly vibrant palette, smooth gradiants and shading. It really pops off the screen in a way the added geometry and detail of the DS version can't compare to.

I also thought all the added content and characters were really poor and took away from the game more than they added. I particularly hated being forced to play as Yoshi for the first few hours.
The minigames were pretty ace though.

 

[dock]

I do think Mario 64 should qualify another remake (on the Wii U perhaps), but the only way this will happen is if Nintendo aren't planning to do a 3D Mario for a year or two.

 

[Ringman]

There's enough new content to make Mario 64 DS worth playing.

You just need to ask yourself if you want to re-play Mario 64, or play more Mario 64. If the former, play the N64 version. If the latter, check it out on DS. Many of the gameplay tweaks make the DS version feel like a different game.

I picked up Mario 64 DS long after it was released due to the mixed reactions I had heard about the controls, but I wish I had bought it sooner. The updated visuals are nice, the extra characters add a lot of variety, and minigames are surprisingly fun. The bonuses, enhancements, and additional content far outweigh the less precise controls.

 

[KittenMaster]

I never realized how much the textures have changed for Bob-omb land until now. The orignal Mario 64 always had nasty choices of garish colors.

 

[terrisus]

And they really jumped the gun on this, they should have waited for the 3DS, or anything with an analog stick that can competently display three-dimensional worlds.

Yeah, the DS had a really strange launch. It was like Nintendo wasn't exactly sure of what path they wanted to take with it - even aside from the whole "third pillar" talk.

It just seemed really strange to launch a new system, with a game (possibly two - never really played the Metroid Prime Hunters: First Hunt demo) that seemed basically counter to the system's given control system - a game that was made for an analog stick, being released on a system with only a D-pad, and a control scheme that basically seemed patched together as a work-around for the problem.

Not saying the original DS needed an analog stick - it was fine with a D-pad for me - but, it was just really strange to launch it with a game that would make people immediately feel the lack of an analog stick.

Now, of course, the 3DS would be the more ideal place for N64 ports/remakes.

 

[Coldsnap]

Just wanna follow up on this. Went out and bought it Friday and played it most of the weekend. This game is so great! Most of it I am remembering from playing with friends back in the day, but this game ages so well. I made a pretty broad statement last night to my friend that it feels like the best game made still, compared to modern games. I think it's at least better than any Mario game that follows.

 

[RockmanWhore]

I have mixed feelings about Super Mario 64 DS. On one hand, I like the stuff they added, new the stars, the new characters, the graphisms have been slighly improved too, and if you live in the PAL area, it's smoother too because of the horrible 50Hz port of the original game, the camera have been reworked and work much better.

But Super Mario 64 with a dpad doesn't feel as good as it does with an analog stick, there are some touch options which kinda works, but that's far from ideal. I guess it must play nicer on 3DS with the circle pad, but since the original game wasn't designed for the circle pad, you'll be stuck with 8 directions movements. So yeah, if you can find it for cheap and plan to play it on your 3DS, it's definitely worth it.