the_log_ride
Member
This. I remember not seeing anyone in the series 2 cards with an agility level over 6 (IIRC 7 was the max for each stat. Spidey and nighcrawler were both 6s).
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Is the Hulk the cheapest comic book superhero ever?
- Thread starter Oblivion
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This. I remember not seeing anyone in the series 2 cards with an agility level over 6 (IIRC 7 was the max for each stat. Spidey and nighcrawler were both 6s).
Here's a page where you can find all the characters by their power grid level:
http://marvel.wikia.com/Power_Grid
To give you an idea, there's 225 different characters listed that have a strength of 7.
Nightcrawler should be a 5
shaowebb
Member
Gambit hasn't had access to his full powers since they nerfed his infinite way back in the versus series beginnings. All that L- mashing just had to go.
Seriously though the guy as death could transmute anything to anything else and normal gambit can ramp up kinetic energy in something till it explodes. Potentially hes always powerful enough that people should pay him more respect than he gets for his abilities, but in the tiers that have guys that move insanely fast, dudes who can dematerialize you with a thought or guys that are just too fast and ridiculously strong to either avoid or survive their fist hit Gambit is a no contest underdog.
I don't know this suit, where is it from?
Plus Gambit sucks.
ElectricBlue187
Member
so I was watching the Avengers TV show with my son and I was wondering why doesn't Hulk turn back to Banner in this show? They show Hulk all happy and joking around and I thought he was only the Hulk when he was pissed off?
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Dems fighting words slay.
Dreams-Visions
Member
shaowebb
Member
Season 1 Banner made a deal with the Hulk have of his mind that he wouldn't lock Hulk away anymore if he was good and helped them. Hulk has kept his end of the bargain so the Banner half of him in that series has not exerted will over him to lock him away anymore.
Jubilee > Gambit.
Not anymore shes not. Sure she used to had the power to make one of them explodies in your brain and just kill you easy but she lost all her mutant powers in the House of M aftermath. After a brief stint in New Warriors using a powersuit she got bit by a vampire and now has vampy powers instead of her explodey ones or the suit. Heck she only keeps vampiric ferality aside by ingesting Wolverine's blood regularly and she's struggling with therapy on how to control it on her own.
Most she has now is a reason to neck with X-23 for fanservice. Powerful in its own way , but not exactly what we're looking for.
Gambit is everything that was wrong with the 90s in pretty much in one character. That is an achievement for a non WIldstorm or Image character.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
thought nightcrawler was the only 7, i know spiderman and beast were 6's
all those ratings were for earthbound heroes really most of the cosmic characters were way off those scales.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Jubilee > Gambit.
Jubs became a vampire. I dont think so.
Dreams-Visions
Member
she did what? lol
Angry Fork
Member
Not to go off topic but I wish there was a comic book OT thread where people could go to see what they should read. I want to get into the marvel storylines and big issues but I don't know the order they come in, what I should read what I should skip etc. And if people want to say read the best magneto stories they could ask and people would give recommendations.
But if that thread doesn't pop up I'll ask here what should I read when it comes to X-Men, Spiderman and Hulk? What are the best/most important stories?
But if that thread doesn't pop up I'll ask here what should I read when it comes to X-Men, Spiderman and Hulk? What are the best/most important stories?
shaowebb
Member
Jubilee > Gambit.
This is what Jubilee does now.
Like I said...powerful in its own right but not what we're talking about lol.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
This is what Jubilee does now.
Like I said...powerful in its own right but not what we're talking about lol.
upgrade
This is what Jubilee does now.
Like I said...powerful in its own right but not what we're talking about lol.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
He's not grotesquely muscle bound, nor is he a brooding character, so what from the 90's does he still encompass?
Dreams-Visions
Member
This is what Jubilee does now.
Like I said...powerful in its own right but not what we're talking about lol.
man what the fuck!
what was wrong with her being relatively weak and shooting fireworks n' shit?
Finaika
Member
So what happened to X-23 in that pic?
Manmademan
Member
I never thought gambit was THAT bad. a little cheesy with the cajun accent, but not terrible in the way that a lot of the overly "dark" heroes of the 90s tended to be.
edit:
haha, remember these?
The smarmy badboy, his character is paper thin.
shaowebb
Member
What didn't happen?
Who knows what that other hand is up to in the shot!
Seriously though she is feeding on X-23 because the healing factor in her blood and Wolverine's blood keeps her from going feral and losing herself to being a vampire entirely. Also she's filling in a niche in the market to "appeal to Twilighters and all them thar vampire lovers" as well as filling in another niche of "make up a character to give us some hot girl on girl action. Bonus points is shes asian".
Its Mahvel Baby!
Shouta
Member
Honestly? With how the writers work, a character like the old Jubilee becomes useless. It's like a superpowered arms race for writers. You can do less with characters the weaker they are because the villains you keep writing are unaffected by them. The smart way would be to write smarter and prevent situations like that from occurring but most writers simply just give characters power ups and the like to compensate hence Vampire Jubilee.
Also, the art is kinda hot in that pick even though it's damn stupid.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
True, but he really hasn't done much either. This new ongoing should help with that.
She was pretty badass in Generation X despite being the second weakest member of the team.
Manmademan
Member
I don't even think that was the issue. You could always "power up" a character and jubilee's powerset was written to do exactly this from day 1. (she was holding back in just about every appearance, since blowing up a house by accident in her origin).
Jubilee's ACTUAL problem is that she was written to be a late 80's/early 90s teenage mallrat sidekick with a yellow trenchcoat, and since time moves VERY SLOWLY (only about 10 years of real time have gone by since Fantastic Four #1 launched in the 60s) the character ages badly. She became a walking anachonism and it takes great leaps of plot to correct it. There are a few other characters of that era with the same issue- Speedball in particular was even WORSE.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
your thinking too hard about him, he didnt even have spiky armor...they gave EVERYONE spiky armor in the 90's
Waste of paper. Should be an Annex ongoing or a Fat Cobra and Herc teamup mini.
Tragicomedy
Member
The Flash is currently the cheapest superhero ever since the introduction and evolution of the "speed force." It's totally cheese mode at this point.
Infinite speed, the ability to control all motion and kinetic energy, healing factor, time travel, creating copies of himself, etc. Bullcrap.
From the wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Force
1) Infinite mass punch - Introduced in Grant Morrison's JLA title. Flash (Wally West), traveling near the speed of light acquired the relativistic mass of such speed to impart blows which could hit with the force of "a white dwarf star," enabling him to knock down such powerful foes as the White Martians with a single punch. Flash's own durability is regulated by the Speed Force in such cases.
2) Speed lend/steal - Perhaps his most versatile new power. Because the Speed Force governed all motion, Wally could rob objects of their kinetic energy, motion, or momentum (e.g., bullets in flight or turning a supervillain into a statue) and use the energy to accelerate himself even faster. He could similarly lend speed to inanimate objects or allies, enabling them to temporarily travel nearly as fast as himself. Bart Allen's future self is shown to also have this ability in the Teen Titans Titans Tomorrow story arc.
3) Metabolize wounds - Accelerating his healing factor while using the Speed Force to sustain him, he could heal from grievous injury without prematurely aging like his counterpart from another reality, Walter West. Related to the ability above, Wally would serve as the "team medic," healing other team members by accelerating their healing factors (without prematurely aging them).
4) Constructs - Wally discovered that if he concentrated, the Speed Force could be used to create solid constructs. The first time he used this ability was to create a solid armor enabling him to run despite having broken legs. Later examples included sealing up the openings of his costume against disease, creating pockets for holding things, etc. In JLA, when shot by Prometheus, his suit displayed bullet-resistant properties. Most recently, it was used to repair the damage done to the various speedsters' costumes, allowing Wally to change his uniform; Jesse Quick to take up the uniform of her father, Johnny Quick; and Wally's daughter, Iris, to become the new Impulse.
5) Shield - Exhibited by Savitar, whose mastery of the Speed Force allowed him to reflect objects away from himself.
6) Flight - Exhibited by Johnny Quick and his daughter, Jesse Quick; the only speedsters known to exhibit this ability. However, all speedsters traveling faster than escape-velocity exhibit "inverse flight".
7) ESP - Exhibited by Max Mercury, whose communion with the Speed Force allows him to detect the motion of any object in the world, and especially to perceive other speedsters. Wally West exhibited a similar ability which allowed him to perceive Linda across time and space due to the strength of their bond.
8) Total recall - Exhibited by Bart Allen, who can retain everything he speed-reads (in contrast to other speedsters, who only retain the information temporarily).
9) Speed scouts - Exhibited by Bart Allen, who can create Speed Force-duplicates of himself that, due to the timeless nature of the Speed Force, can travel forwards and backwards through time. They can also manipulate objects or merge their consciousness with Bart, informing him of their actions. However, after one of his Speed Scouts was killed, Bart was thrown into a coma and hasn't used the ability since.
10) Speed control - Traveling at any speed one believes they can move at.
11) Negate Anti-Life Equation - Not yet explained, but it is seen in Final Crisis #4 when Barry Allen kissed his wife, who was under the control of Anti-Life, and the Speed Force surrounded her and she regained her free will.
12) Muscle growth - Exhibited by Jai West, who has the power to speed up the growth of his muscles, temporarily giving him super strength, but causing him to be exhausted after a short time.
13) Intangibility/Self-molecular control - Exhibited by Barry Allen, Bart Allen, and Iris West. Their total control of kinetic energy at a molecular level allows them to match the vibrational frequency needed to travel easily into and through solid matter. Wally West has this ability, too, but with less control, so solid matter usually explodes when coming in contact with him. When Bart Allen internalized the Speed Force into himself, he too showed difficulty with this ability, melting matter if not concentrating enough. Iris' control is as effortless as Barry's, but unlike his, it is somewhat unstable. As an offensive ability, it can be used to scramble one's molecular structure to the point of literal disintegration
Infinite speed, the ability to control all motion and kinetic energy, healing factor, time travel, creating copies of himself, etc. Bullcrap.
From the wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Force
1) Infinite mass punch - Introduced in Grant Morrison's JLA title. Flash (Wally West), traveling near the speed of light acquired the relativistic mass of such speed to impart blows which could hit with the force of "a white dwarf star," enabling him to knock down such powerful foes as the White Martians with a single punch. Flash's own durability is regulated by the Speed Force in such cases.
2) Speed lend/steal - Perhaps his most versatile new power. Because the Speed Force governed all motion, Wally could rob objects of their kinetic energy, motion, or momentum (e.g., bullets in flight or turning a supervillain into a statue) and use the energy to accelerate himself even faster. He could similarly lend speed to inanimate objects or allies, enabling them to temporarily travel nearly as fast as himself. Bart Allen's future self is shown to also have this ability in the Teen Titans Titans Tomorrow story arc.
3) Metabolize wounds - Accelerating his healing factor while using the Speed Force to sustain him, he could heal from grievous injury without prematurely aging like his counterpart from another reality, Walter West. Related to the ability above, Wally would serve as the "team medic," healing other team members by accelerating their healing factors (without prematurely aging them).
4) Constructs - Wally discovered that if he concentrated, the Speed Force could be used to create solid constructs. The first time he used this ability was to create a solid armor enabling him to run despite having broken legs. Later examples included sealing up the openings of his costume against disease, creating pockets for holding things, etc. In JLA, when shot by Prometheus, his suit displayed bullet-resistant properties. Most recently, it was used to repair the damage done to the various speedsters' costumes, allowing Wally to change his uniform; Jesse Quick to take up the uniform of her father, Johnny Quick; and Wally's daughter, Iris, to become the new Impulse.
5) Shield - Exhibited by Savitar, whose mastery of the Speed Force allowed him to reflect objects away from himself.
6) Flight - Exhibited by Johnny Quick and his daughter, Jesse Quick; the only speedsters known to exhibit this ability. However, all speedsters traveling faster than escape-velocity exhibit "inverse flight".
7) ESP - Exhibited by Max Mercury, whose communion with the Speed Force allows him to detect the motion of any object in the world, and especially to perceive other speedsters. Wally West exhibited a similar ability which allowed him to perceive Linda across time and space due to the strength of their bond.
8) Total recall - Exhibited by Bart Allen, who can retain everything he speed-reads (in contrast to other speedsters, who only retain the information temporarily).
9) Speed scouts - Exhibited by Bart Allen, who can create Speed Force-duplicates of himself that, due to the timeless nature of the Speed Force, can travel forwards and backwards through time. They can also manipulate objects or merge their consciousness with Bart, informing him of their actions. However, after one of his Speed Scouts was killed, Bart was thrown into a coma and hasn't used the ability since.
10) Speed control - Traveling at any speed one believes they can move at.
11) Negate Anti-Life Equation - Not yet explained, but it is seen in Final Crisis #4 when Barry Allen kissed his wife, who was under the control of Anti-Life, and the Speed Force surrounded her and she regained her free will.
12) Muscle growth - Exhibited by Jai West, who has the power to speed up the growth of his muscles, temporarily giving him super strength, but causing him to be exhausted after a short time.
13) Intangibility/Self-molecular control - Exhibited by Barry Allen, Bart Allen, and Iris West. Their total control of kinetic energy at a molecular level allows them to match the vibrational frequency needed to travel easily into and through solid matter. Wally West has this ability, too, but with less control, so solid matter usually explodes when coming in contact with him. When Bart Allen internalized the Speed Force into himself, he too showed difficulty with this ability, melting matter if not concentrating enough. Iris' control is as effortless as Barry's, but unlike his, it is somewhat unstable. As an offensive ability, it can be used to scramble one's molecular structure to the point of literal disintegration
Shouta
Member
There is that but I was speaking more generally. There are a lot of character problems as well, Jubilee has it well but solving that and evolving her character would be a possibility considering her slate, relatively anyway.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Such salt in your veins. But that Hercules team up isn't a bad idea
Manmademan
Member
well, that takes a good writer, and to be honest those are in short supply.
Looking at speedball as an example, turning him from his established nonsense into something else required killing his entire team and traumatizing him into a masochist who needs to cut himself and inflict pain for his powers to be effective. It's a textbook example of what NOT to do when evolving a character into something more mature, but that's comics for you.
shaowebb
Member
You're definitely right about the arms race. Each villain has to top the last and due to this you either end up writing villains that are too powerful and end up writing you into a corner with most heroes or you end up having to write scenarios involving armies, armadas, or doomsday devices to try and take out. Its a lot harder to write intriguing strategist super villains because most super villains are about destruction and their true purpose never really amounts to more than that.
At least Batman villains are about crime and general psychosis that turn it into a crime drama. Marvel heroes don't fight crime...they put out fires.
Its why the best Marvel came up with to shake things up with is political issues between the government and the vigilantes defending their country. They got SHIELD and it pretty much acts as a tie in to any of these plotlines they run. They did it with Secret War, Civil War, Dark Reign and the end of Skrull War (armada scenario took precedence to political scenario here), and currently are doing it with Avengers vs X-men. When they run out of things to use for an arms race they simply tie up politics into vigilante's business so they can pit teams against teams and heroes against government till that scenario cools and then its back to armada or God-complex villains again.
It works, but don't expect things to remain very sensible for long with some characters trying to stay afloat in this arms race and political stuff. They either power up, flip sides, do both, or fade away. Like I said, its easier to write powers than a compelling strategic villain that keeps you on the edge of your seat. For firefighters and disaster relief choose Marvel, for crime stories choose...well...choose some of DC and a few indies.
Fat Cobra, Herc, and Thor all hanging out together becomes a superhero version of Varsity Blues.
Though I am hoping Iron Fist+Phoenix Force gets explained more in New Avengers as they tell of a past Iron Fist who held the Phoenix Force. Now THAT would be an OP character.
Not really, I am glad they got Rogue away from Gambit, they were the second most toxic relationship X-men wise. Scott and Jean were first by a mile.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Scott and any psychic is toxic. But I'd rather have remy and rogue than Max and rogue any day of the week.
Finaika
Member
You can beat him by just breaking his legs.
They should never have killed Joseph.
Manmademan
Member
Scott and Jean weren't toxic, just vanilla and boring. Both of those two were vanilla as hell during the time they were together. neither pushed boundaries, no real conflicts...there was really nowhere for it to go.
Which is odd, considering the plethora of alternate timeline children and/or children made with clones they had running around causing problems.
shaowebb
Member
Oh they brought him back. Magneto was being impersonated by him recently. Hell they brought him back twice I believe. I think Xorn may have been hinted at one point as being Joseph, but it was never really clear. In either event read Magneto Not a Hero miniseries and you'll see Joseph again. By the way they made him a mewling pile of suck.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Oh god xorn again?
Maybe they will bring Maggot back, poor boy never got a shot.
Manmademan
Member
Oh god no. that was one of the worst character concepts I've seen in a Loooooooong time. Top that off with the fact that he was supposed to be straight up African, but was blue with straight white hair, and..yeah. let's leave that guy right where he is.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
I say let's revive all dead mutants. In a non necrosia setting of course. I need more pyro and banshee
shaowebb
Member
Oh they brought Maggot back too. He was one of the many very short lived X-men lineup characters in the past several years. I think they killed his ass this time. He either became a sacrifice to someone named Selene (think evil God) or he escaped the X-men island poorly named Utopia in that run. God help me I can't remember if he was X-men, New Mutants, or Generation X this time around when they brought him back but believe me it was a short run. A VERY short run. All I can remember clear about it was nothing of consequence happened. It was around X-men Legacy in 2010.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
most of those dont even matter now some never did it was for us kids.
for instance they clock GR at speed 2 when in his original run he could travel miles in seconds ( they must mean without his bike), so even before they categorized some of these heroes they surpass the numbers. His durability is at a 5 when clearly he's nigh indestructible, his STR at a 3 when he can go toe to toe with Venom, Hulk, Blackheart etc etc.
Wolverine and other Heroes like him are a great example too, Bryne always thought of him as strong as shit like sabertooth at least when he went feral *never does that anymore*. A peak human with extra weight from adamantium couldnt run at 25-29mph which is olympic class while metal is bonded to your bones. If anything it ensures he can lift even more without compromising his bones as a trade off for being slower.
Cap is the same way, they classify him as 800lbs peak human in some cards ...then the very next issue of his book he's jumping out of a 5th story window then tuckin and rolling no prob, and he's been doin that for decades. He's able to run fast like a damn cheetah and he never gets injured , he swings a round shield at heavy armor and busts thru it, Clearly even the most able of normal people cant do these things.
The rankings have a gap from 800 lbs to the 2 ton range 4000+lbs at the next ranking. Even Namor is wrongly classified because they put a 6 at 50 - 100 tons and again long before those cards Namor has vastly outdone that feat many times decades before. Problem is the next level is unlimited str so the cards are fun but not the final word.
shaowebb
Member
They might have done that. Technically anyone who's fate wasn't mentioned in the House of M aftermath where Scarlett Witch re-wrote reality is up for grabs as being either alive or dead. Its up to whether or not the writing staff needs them or not and if so then they were brought back. Thing is most of them they brought back are depowered as that event also wiped out most mutants from having any mutant powers anymore. It was Marvel's way of containing something they went overboard with for nearly 2 decades that was now threatening to leave the Marvel Universe too flooded with powers via the X-gene. Damage control story arc really...
Im on a roll here dropping bombs of information on those who've missed anything in the past 7 years or more.
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