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Is the Hulk the cheapest comic book superhero ever?

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most of those dont even matter now some never did it was for us kids.

for instance they clock GR at speed 2 when in his original run he could travel miles in seconds ( they must mean without his bike), so even before they categorized some of these heroes they surpass the numbers. His durability is at a 5 when clearly he's nigh indestructible, his STR at a 3 when he can go toe to toe with Venom, Hulk, Blackheart etc etc.

Wolverine and other Heroes like him are a great example too, Bryne always thought of him as strong as shit like sabertooth at least when he went feral *never does that anymore*. A peak human with extra weight from adamantium couldnt run at 25-29mph which is olympic class while metal is bonded to your bones. If anything it ensures he can lift even more without compromising his bones as a trade off for being slower.

Cap is the same way, they classify him as 800lbs peak human in some cards ...then the very next issue of his book he's jumping out of a 5th story window then tuckin and rolling no prob, and he's been doin that for decades. He's able to run fast like a damn cheetah and he never gets injured , he swings a round shield at heavy armor and busts thru it, Clearly even the most able of normal people cant do these things.

The rankings have a gap from 800 lbs to the 2 ton range 4000+lbs at the next ranking. Even Namor is wrongly classified because they put a 6 at 50 - 100 tons and again long before those cards Namor has vastly outdone that feat many times decades before. Problem is the next level is unlimited str so the cards are fun but not the final word.

The cards and "guides to the marvel universe" are notorious for being incorrect. Actual feats in comics contradict them all the time. They're fun to collect and for oddball trivia, but the "power grids" are meaningless.

They might have done that. Technically anyone who's fate wasn't mentioned in the House of M aftermath where Scarlett Witch re-wrote reality is up for grabs as being either alive or dead. Its up to whether or not the writing staff needs them or not and if so then they were brought back. Thing is most of them they brought back are depowered as that event also wiped out most mutants from having any mutant powers anymore. It was Marvel's way of containing something they went overboard with for nearly 2 decades that was now threatening to leave the Marvel Universe too flooded with powers via the X-gene. Damage control story arc really...

This also. You may or may not like "no more mutants" but Mutants went from being extremely rare, hated and feared by everyone to literally about 1/6 of the world's population in about a 10/12 year timespan. This is obviously a problem.
 
They might have done that. Technically anyone who's fate wasn't mentioned in the House of M aftermath where Scarlett Witch re-wrote reality is up for grabs as being either alive or dead. Its up to whether or not the writing staff needs them or not and if so then they were brought back. Thing is most of them they brought back are depowered as that event also wiped out most mutants from having any mutant powers anymore. It was Marvel's way of containing something they went overboard with for nearly 2 decades that was now threatening to leave the Marvel Universe too flooded with powers via the X-gene. Damage control story arc really...

Im on a roll here dropping bombs of information on those who've missed anything in the past 7 years or more.

Banshee is dead. Even if his fate was left to your imagination, he was seen in the underworld gambling for his resurrection when jack of hearts won his.
 
This is what Jubilee does now.
yhxJn.jpg


Like I said...powerful in its own right but not what we're talking about lol.

Takeda. :bow :bow
 
Banshee is dead. Even if his fate was left to your imagination, he was seen in the underworld gambling for his resurrection when jack of hearts won his.

Don't worry. So is Nightcrawler but thanks to X-Force he's back and "edgier" with a scar and "attitude". X-force means we got a direct doorway to Age of Apocalypse-verse to snag characters from. I'm not sure if he's dead in that one though. Likely is now that I think of it. Everyone died there pretty easily.

God its sad how many times I get to say "they did that" and "its contrived as hell and sucks" in this past page or so. I really don't know how I'd feel if Banshee came back because it'd be a convoluted mess to pull off.
 
Can someone explain to me the House of M and the 198 thing. Why did mutants lose their powers and what/who controlled which mutants would lose their powers and who wouldn't? Also why did Quicksilver have the power to give a mutants their powers back by touching them?
 
Couldn't Superboy-Prime just refine his universe punch and figure out a way to rewrite history to make the hulk a kitten? =p
 
Don't worry. So is Nightcrawler but thanks to X-Force he's back and "edgier" with a scar and "attitude". X-force means we got a direct doorway to Age of Apocalypse-verse to snag characters from. I'm not sure if he's dead in that one though. Likely is now that I think of it. Everyone died there pretty easily.

God its sad how many times I get to say "they did that" and "its contrived as hell and sucks" in this past page or so. I really don't know how I'd feel if Banshee came back because it'd be a convoluted mess to pull off.

I don't want age of apoc characters though. Xman and blink are the only passable characters. The rest can burn in a nova flare for all I care.
 
Can someone explain to me the House of M and the 198 thing. Why did mutants lose their powers and what/who controlled which mutants would lose their powers and who wouldn't? Also why did Quicksilver have the power to give a mutants their powers back by touching them?

Short version is Scarlett Witch's ability to mess with luck was revealed to be a full blown ability to effect reality itself. She was suffering from a huge mental episode of sorts and tried to give everyone the reality they all wanted. EVERYONE. Magneto's family was a ruling family, Peter had Gwen Stacy, etc etc etc. Anyhow it was something that was fought by those were made able to remember the original reality. They were able to with the help of one person who could remember the original reality that was written into this story. She panicked before putting things back the way the were and was a complete head case when she did it. The last thing she said before she snapped reality back to the way it was were the words "no more mutants" and with that reality was back and mutantkind was nearly depowered out of existence. Some people who were dead were found alive and others with powers had none. Things were a complete friggin' mess and its still so loose an issue its used to plot device in any character they need in whatever manner they choose.

As for quicksilver, 198, and who has powers and doesn't its all too vague for me to recall.
I don't want age of apoc characters though. Xman and blink are the only passable characters. The rest can burn in a nova flare for all I care.

I feel pretty much the same, but theres no stopping comic book writers from trying to bring back dead cast with a new past and attitude. Thats pretty much what they relegated that universe to doing lately. As for Age of Apocalypse cast I'll say this...its the only time Strong Guy was ever halfway likable for me. Also I agree on Blink and Xman. Good stuff.
 
Can someone explain to me the House of M and the 198 thing. Why did mutants lose their powers and what/who controlled which mutants would lose their powers and who wouldn't? Also why did Quicksilver have the power to give a mutants their powers back by touching them?

House of M was a result of the scarlet witch rewriting reality. Just about everyone was given what they truly desired out of life- spider man was a celebrity, wolverine had all his memories restored, mutants were part of a stable society led by magneto, etc etc. It wasn't foolproof though and eventually some people gained their original memories back.

When scarlet witch reversed it, "no more mutants" was a consequence, since she blamed them for all the things that had gone wrong. Countless millions of mutants had their powers wiped out, leaving only about 200 left, and no new mutant children being born. Who kept their powers was random, since scarlet witch is powerful, but not omnipotent and with questionable control over her abilities.

Quicksilver was also depowered back to human, and gained (new, different) abilities by exposing himself to the terrigen mists- which is a substance the Inhumans (a different earth based race, not human and not mutant) expose themselves to to gain powers. Since the crystals from the mists were embedded in his body for reasons i can't recall, touching former mutants could give them their abilities back, but this was unpredictable and unstable.

But the bottom line is that the REAL reason all of that happened is that there were simply too many mutants in the marvel universe thanks to lazy writers- the purpose of the Xmen made less and less sense the more mutants there were and it was causing editorial problems.

Couldn't Superboy-Prime just refine his universe punch and figure out a way to rewrite history to make the hulk a kitten? =p

no, since SBP can't affect reality on his own. the "time barrier" he was damaging that caused all those retcons was set up (and not by him) at the end of the original Crisis back in the 80s. Earth-2 superman smashed right through it with 1 hit (clearly being more powerful), so I'm not sure why SBP gets the credit for that one.
 
I feel pretty much the same, but theres no stopping comic book writers from trying to bring back dead cast with a new past and attitude. Thats pretty much what they relegated that universe to doing lately. As for Age of Apocalypse cast I'll say this...its the only time Strong Guy was ever halfway likable for me. Also I agree on Blink and Xman. Good stuff.

If they're trying so hard to resurrect old worlds, they should give the ultraverse a second shot. Out of the 90's so no musclebound superfreaks.
 
Not that he'd be anywhere near most heroes in this thread, but has Scott ever unleashed his full power yet? I remember it being mentioned quite a few times that he's mentally holding back to but a fraction of his power.

I'd like to see an arc where he gains full control AND isn't afraid to use it.
 
So...what were we talking about before we had a continuity check? lol

Oh yeah Popeye being OP as fuck.

What happens if he runs into scarlet witch though?

"No More Spinach"

Not that he'd be anywhere near most heroes in this thread, but has Scott ever unleashed his full power yet? I remember it being mentioned quite a few times that he's mentally holding back to but a fraction of his power.

I'd like to see an arc where he gains full control AND isn't afraid to use it.

it's happened a few times, but he's really not that strong. Alex is more powerful. The one that comes to mind most often for me is Xfactor #68- Scott lets loose completely on Apocalypse, amped by (baby) Nate Summers and Jean Grey, killing Apocalypse outright.

It's notable since the combined power of Xfactor, and the Inhumans couldn't scratch apocalypse up to that point, nevermind cause serious injury. OG Apocalypse was not to be fucked with.
 
Short version is Scarlett Witch's ability to mess with luck was revealed to be a full blown ability to effect reality itself. She was suffering from a huge mental episode of sorts and tried to give everyone the reality they all wanted. EVERYONE. Magneto's family was a ruling family, Peter had Gwen Stacy, etc etc etc. Anyhow it was something that was fought by those were made able to remember the original reality. They were able to with the help of one person who could remember the original reality that was written into this story. She panicked before putting things back the way the were and was a complete head case when she did it. The last thing she said before she snapped reality back to the way it was were the words "no more mutants" and with that reality was back and mutantkind was nearly depowered out of existence. Some people who were dead were found alive and others with powers had none. Things were a complete friggin' mess and its still so loose an issue its used to plot device in any character they need in whatever manner they choose.

As for quicksilver, 198, and who has powers and doesn't its all too vague for me to recall.


I feel pretty much the same, but theres no stopping comic book writers from trying to bring back dead cast with a new past and attitude. Thats pretty much what they relegated that universe to doing lately. As for Age of Apocalypse cast I'll say this...its the only time Strong Guy was ever halfway likable for me. Also I agree on Blink and Xman. Good stuff.

House of M was a result of the scarlet witch rewriting reality. Just about everyone was given what they truly desired out of life- spider man was a celebrity, wolverine had all his memories restored, mutants were part of a stable society led by magneto, etc etc. It wasn't foolproof though and eventually some people gained their original memories back.

When scarlet witch reversed it, "no more mutants" was a consequence, since she blamed them for all the things that had gone wrong. Countless millions of mutants had their powers wiped out, leaving only about 200 left, and no new mutant children being born. Who kept their powers was random, since scarlet witch is powerful, but not omnipotent and with questionable control over her abilities.

Quicksilver was also depowered back to human, and gained (new, different) abilities by exposing himself to the terrigen mists- which is a substance the Inhumans (a different earth based race, not human and not mutant) expose themselves to to gain powers. Since the crystals from the mists were embedded in his body for reasons i can't recall, touching former mutants could give them their abilities back, but this was unpredictable and unstable.

But the bottom line is that the REAL reason all of that happened is that there were simply too many mutants in the marvel universe thanks to lazy writers- the purpose of the Xmen made less and less sense the more mutants there were and it was causing editorial problems.



no, since SBP can't affect reality on his own. the "time barrier" he was damaging that caused all those retcons was set up (and not by him) at the end of the original Crisis back in the 80s. Earth-2 superman smashed right through it with 1 hit (clearly being more powerful), so I'm not sure why SBP gets the credit for that one.

Thanks for that guys. Is it worth reading? I feel like reading some good comics from Marvel ( or could be DC as well - preferably some batman).

I read the Civil War saga recently (including most of the comic tie ins) and aside from a couple of comic issues, I didn't really enjoy it. The ending was also kinda lame.
 
Not that he'd be anywhere near most heroes in this thread, but has Scott ever unleashed his full power yet? I remember it being mentioned quite a few times that he's mentally holding back to but a fraction of his power.

I'd like to see an arc where he gains full control AND isn't afraid to use it.

...just take off his glasses/visor, thats full power. Scott is really powerful but he is a glass cannon in the end, most dangerous as a leader / long range threat. Alex cant beat the shit out of him and their horrible younger brother anyway.
 
Thanks for that guys. Is it worth reading? I feel like reading some good comics from Marvel ( or could be DC as well - preferably some batman).

I read the Civil War saga recently (including most of the comic tie ins) and aside from a couple of comic issues, I didn't really enjoy it. The ending was also kinda lame.

House of m was pretty good, and it introduced layla which was a plus. The fallout from no more mutants was pretty grand( and striker added the cherry to the sundae)
 
If they're trying so hard to resurrect old worlds, they should give the ultraverse a second shot. Out of the 90's so no musclebound superfreaks.
Just where do you think Marvel got the idea of how to run with Emma Frost? The character "Contrary" from Ultraforce was directly ripped off to make Emma Frost who she is.
Thanks for that guys. Is it worth reading? I feel like reading some good comics from Marvel ( or could be DC as well - preferably some batman).

I read the Civil War saga recently (including most of the comic tie ins) and aside from a couple of comic issues, I didn't really enjoy it. The ending was also kinda lame.
They are good reads. Go for it.

What happens if he runs into scarlet witch though?

"No More Spinach"

I spit taked when I read that. It brings up a good point though. Just how OP is Scarlett Witch when she has the ability to rewrite everything ever including the ability to take away powers and make people either dead or alive in the new reality?
 
I spit taked when I read that. It brings up a good point though. Just how OP is Scarlett Witch when she has the ability to rewrite everything ever including the ability to take away powers and make people either dead or alive in the new reality?

It's...pretty bad. There's maybe one or two (earth based) characters that are stronger, or potentially stronger- the fact that her grip on sanity/reality is extremely questionable is the only thing really holding her back.

Don't quote me on it, but I can see a showdown between Scarlet Witch and Hope Summers/Phoenix Force at the conclusion of Xmen vs Avengers which should be fun.
 
It's...pretty bad. There's maybe one or two (earth based) characters that are stronger, or potentially stronger- the fact that her grip on sanity/reality is extremely questionable is the only thing really holding her back.

Don't quote me on it, but I can see a showdown between Scarlet Witch and Hope Summers/Phoenix Force at the conclusion of Xmen vs Avengers which should be fun.

I'm reading House of M right now, which is about Scarlet Witch going bonkers. Are they really going to do a series where she goes crazy again?
 
I'm reading House of M right now, which is about Scarlet Witch going bonkers. Are they really going to do a series where she goes crazy again?

Their all over the place with groundwork on A vs X. Iron Fist is getting a push toward being something big somehow in it, people poke around Scarlett Witch, bunch of Kree shit including the resurrection of I think Quasar and just a metric shitload of every other comic book somehow dealing with it from the big name comics all the way down to Avengers Academy setting up for its own A vs X free for all.

God knows how its gonna go.
 
I'm reading House of M right now, which is about Scarlet Witch going bonkers. Are they really going to do a series where she goes crazy again?

not to spoil you, but Scarlet witch has BEEN crazy for a very long time.

The root of this is that she had "children" with the Vision back in the 80s. Since Vision is an artificial life form and can't actually procreate, something was obviously wrong. Those kids were the result of her subconscious using her powers to give her what she wanted. She used fragments of mephisto's power to do this, and when mephisto reabsorbed them (eliminating her kids) things started to go downhill, and mentally she just got more and more unstable.

Avengers Disassembled was the culmination of her finally losing it, bringing some avengers back from the dead, murdering others, and essentially royally screwing everyone. House of M resulted from Dr. Strange, Professor X, etc attempting to control her and bring her back to sanity, but failing to find a way to do so.

She disappeared post house of M, but no one really knew where she went- she's appeared randomly here and there but is clearly not better yet. Avengers vs. Xmen is her formal reintroduction and likely resolution of this plot line.
 
Just where do you think Marvel got the idea of how to run with Emma Frost? The character "Contrary" from Ultraforce was directly ripped off to make Emma Frost who she is.
They are good reads. Go for it.

There are a few similarities to current characters. Ghoul. And deadpool for one. But scrapping the old, and rebuilding them would be cool. I'd love to see what could be done with nightman, prototype, prime and hardcase
 
I used to read comics religiously, then I just couldnt keep up anymore, is there a site that summarizes every months worth of comics into an easy to read timeline?

I love comics, I just don't want to read 30 books a month to get the whole picture.
 
You can beat him by just breaking his legs.

"4) Constructs - Wally discovered that if he concentrated, the Speed Force could be used to create solid constructs. The first time he used this ability was to create a solid armor enabling him to run despite having broken legs."
 
"4) Constructs - Wally discovered that if he concentrated, the Speed Force could be used to create solid constructs. The first time he used this ability was to create a solid armor enabling him to run despite having broken legs."

Oh damn.
 
I can't stop reading this thread for some reason.

Carry on.
It's like a trainwreck that keeps repeating, you think it's over and everyone is finally dead but then it gets retconned and the trainwreck begins anew.
 
I used to read comics religiously, then I just couldnt keep up anymore, is there a site that summarizes every months worth of comics into an easy to read timeline?

I love comics, I just don't want to read 30 books a month to get the whole picture.

Probably wikipedia. Or any of the other marvel and dc based wikis.
 
"4) Constructs - Wally discovered that if he concentrated, the Speed Force could be used to create solid constructs. The first time he used this ability was to create a solid armor enabling him to run despite having broken legs."

Wundarr_the_Aquarian.png


Flash is screwed against this guy, though. ;)

Speed force also doesn't work outside of his home universe as well. If you could (in theory) teleport him out of it, he's helpless.
 
not to spoil you, but Scarlet witch has BEEN crazy for a very long time.

The root of this is that she had "children" with the Vision back in the 80s. Since Vision is an artificial life form and can't actually procreate, something was obviously wrong. Those kids were the result of her subconscious using her powers to give her what she wanted. She used fragments of mephisto's power to do this, and when mephisto reabsorbed them (eliminating her kids) things started to go downhill, and mentally she just got more and more unstable.

Avengers Disassembled was the culmination of her finally losing it, bringing some avengers back from the dead, murdering others, and essentially royally screwing everyone. House of M resulted from Dr. Strange, Professor X, etc attempting to control her and bring her back to sanity, but failing to find a way to do so.

She disappeared post house of M, but no one really knew where she went- she's appeared randomly here and there but is clearly not better yet. Avengers vs. Xmen is her formal reintroduction and likely resolution of this plot line.

Fascinating lore. Too bad her brother seems to be the red headed stepchild. Who did Magneto hook up with to create such a monster?
 
There are a few similarities to current characters. Ghoul. And deadpool for one. But scrapping the old, and rebuilding them would be cool. I'd love to see what could be done with nightman, prototype, prime and hardcase

Nightman was interesting. A sax playing Jazz musician who could hear your thoughts...sounds cheesey as hell and it largely was, but if "The Shadow" could make a huge splash off of being creepy, sticking to shadows, and tormenting you with his knowledge of all of your sins then this guy could likely be revisioned pretty easily given his penchant for trying to do Batman styled stuff.

Prototype, Prime and Hardcase are probably the best picks alongside of The Strangers for potential revisioned series. Prime is like Shazam, Hardcase is a nanotech empowered superguy who didn't need to breath, who had a healing factor, strength, super senses, and a ton of invulnerability. Prototype was a dude hired to use a powersuit by a tech company. Its like if Tony Stark made Iron Man and hired someone to run it as a promotion and then him dealing with the morality of his position of hero or just someone protecting a company's interests.

And the Strangers had a dude who blew stuff up, a speedster, a Human torch looking gay guy with varying powers (flight, healing, fire powers that also caused rage inducement, strength, defense, survive in space, and hydrokinesis)depending on which end of the spectrum he burned, an electric shooting sentient female android, a guy who could rearrange matter at an atomic level, a female super tracker with infallible aim like Bullseye, and a flying sorceress.

Shit was awesome and all of it would be really easy to reboot and make work these days. If Marvel was willing to run a series of Ultraverse things it'd likely be a big thing for them in my opinion and could work as an entirely seperate entity to take risks in without having to mess with things all the time in Marvel to do so.
 
Oh god xorn again?

Xorn is so powerful he had Magneto's powers and face despite not being Magneto at all. Xorn was so mighty, he had Xorn's powers despite not even being the real Xorn. This is because Xorn was actually an evil, pissed off Uncle Ben.


Also, if Franklin Richards had the Pheonix Force or Power Cosmic, he'd be an unstoppable force, wouldn't he?
 
Holy thread revival, Batman! (get it?)


There's something that really bothers me about Scarlett Witch being so powerful. It just doesn't seem right. I mean, she only appeared in one episode of the X-Men (cartoon)!
 
Holy thread revival, Batman! (get it?)


There's something that really bothers me about Scarlett Witch being so powerful. It just doesn't seem right. I mean, she only appeared in one episode of the X-Men (cartoon)!

and shes been an avenger forever. their appearances shouldnt matter.

The fuck? I'm curious, is Thing-Hulk stronger than regular Hulk?

nope. none of the temp hulks
 
I never said anything about X-23, Laura is awesome. But I can't give you vampire Jubilee.

Don't dis Jubilee too loud. Marvel will panic, give her magic, a gun, a sword, make her related to someone popular and then for edginess make her wish to become a male named Jay Lee because she's always been a gay man trapped in a straight female's body.
 
Don't dis Jubilee too loud. Marvel will panic, give her magic, a gun, a sword, make her related to someone popular and then for edginess make her wish to become a male named Jay Lee because she's always been a gay man trapped in a straight female's body.

This literally made me laugh out loud.

Seeing your tag reminded me that Captain Badass would totally stomp the Hulk.
 
Don't dis Jubilee too loud. Marvel will panic, give her magic, a gun, a sword, make her related to someone popular and then for edginess make her wish to become a male named Jay Lee because she's always been a gay man trapped in a straight female's body.

i would have said we arent in the 90s anymore, so good luck with that. but after the vampire shit.... yeah.
 
-holds a small black hole in his hand:

944057-supermanstrength1_super.jpg

No. No, no, no, no, just NO.

I'm willing to tolerate a lot of superhuman feats, but the ability to overpower black holes is one of the few things that I won't ever tolerate. Black holes are objects that exert INFINITE gravity. It's one of the few forces in the universe that defy the laws of physics. I will not accept that any super powered mortal has the ability to do ANYTHING to such an object. I'm okay with some god like being such as Galactus, Eternity, Phoenix, Ghost Rider etc. being able to accomplish such feats (because at worst you could just say that magic > science or some shit), but not fucking Superman.

Now, if said black hole is the same as one of those super lame miniature black holes like in that one episode of Spiderman, okay fine. Those things were shitty anyway.
 
No. No, no, no, no, just NO.

I'm willing to tolerate a lot of superhuman feats, but the ability to overpower black holes is one of the few things that I won't ever tolerate. Black holes are objects that exert INFINITE gravity. It's one of the few forces in the universe that defy the laws of physics. I will not accept that any super powered mortal has the ability to do ANYTHING to such an object. I'm okay with some god like being such as Galactus, Eternity, Phoenix, Ghost Rider etc. being able to accomplish such feats (because at worst you could just say that magic > science or some shit), but not fucking Superman.

Now, if said black hole is the same as one of those super lame miniature black holes like in that one episode of Spiderman, okay fine. Those things were shitty anyway.

You probably don't want to hear this then.

Who was hit with the gravitational force of several black holes at once and stood up anyways under that force?

eD2Jl.jpg


Thiiiiiiiiiis guy.
 
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