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[IamOnline4Real]

It's absolutely not a BAD game, just an average one. Graphically it is out of this world, and ND are just gods at working with the limits they have. Cinematically, it's utterly beautiful, and they have such an amazing eye for detail.

But gameplay...? It's dreadful, and feels locked in the past. It wasn't too bad with the first game, but the second so far seems like they didn't change too much, at least for me.

So again for me, it's just an average game wrapped in a gorgeous wrapper.

Just tell me one survival game at the time that was better than Tlou 1?

 

[IamOnline4Real]

Ps.

Never play Tlou in easy mode.
It was designed to be played on Survivor difficulty.

Once you do that you will understand what ellie and joel had to go through to get back to Jacksonville.

Playing Tlou 2 right now on survivor and it is a blast. One bullet can make a difference.

 

[LittleBigGamer]

It's absolutely not a BAD game, just an average one.

95/100 average...
Then most games are awful. If you have said ''it's not for me'' I couldn't say something. But some games are masterpieces either we like them or not. For example, I don't like Witcher. I will say that it is a big title, just not for me.

 

[LittleBigGamer]

Just tell me one survival game at the time that was better than Tlou 1?

There is not even one. Most of them ,they just don't like the fact that the game is GOTY material and so they are trying to find flaws. Every game on the planet has flaws. So they think that their argument is legit.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I never said it's not a big title, and for what it's worth, I enjoyed the first a lot. I just think that gameplay wise, it's over rated and basic today, and the second game doesn't really do much to improve on the formula.

Of the gameplay was given the same attention the visuals and cinematics were, it would be incredible. But the story, story telling and gameplay is poor, again, for me, even if the presentation is second to none.

It's still better than any Xbox first party exclusive, without question, and I hope Xbox really sort that shit out next gen.

There is not even one. Most of them ,they just don't like the fact that the game is GOTY material and so they are trying to find flaws. Every game on the planet has flaws. So they think that their argument is legit.

You do know that this blind assumption makes you a certain something, right? People are allowed to not find something incredible, and I've given the game its dues. I'm deep into the second and will be back on it tonight once the kids in bed. It's ok to like different things and have different opinions, and shutting people down like this is really sad.

Edit: and bringing in a games review score is pointless. There have been games I've enjoyed far more that have scored 60-70 than games that have scored 90-100. That means nothing.

edit 2: look at uncharted 4 versus uncharted 2. One looks utterly breathtaking, but plays like garbage with a shit story. One looks great still, if a little dated, but had an absolute more perfect story and gameplay from the gods. Yet there is only THREE points between them. And uncharted 4 is seen as a pretty meh game by a lot of people (gorgeous, but meh)

 

[LittleBigGamer]

You do know that this blind assumption makes you a certain something, right? People are allowed to not find something incredible, and I've given the game its dues. I'm deep into the second and will be back on it tonight once the kids in bed. It's ok to like different things and have different opinions, and shutting people down like this is really sad.

Edit: and bringing in a games review score is pointless. There have been games I've enjoyed far more that have scored 60-70 than games that have scored 90-100. That means nothing.

That's what I said in the first post. Some games are masterpieces(like tlous is) but you don't have to like them.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

That's what I said in the first post. Some games are masterpieces(like tlous is) but you don't have to like them.

Absolutely. A game like Fifa can be amazing to one but to me, an absolute bore. Everybody has different opinions and thoughts, and that's why the very idea of a single score showing if somebody should like something is outdated.

Like what you like, dislike what you want. Doesn't matter the score or the platform. As long as you're having fun, awesome. If you're not, stop, and move on. That can be applied to anything really.

 

[Insert Disk Two]

I am currently playing God of War, and although it is not a bad game, it is nowhere as good as all the hype indicated when the game came out. I would say that long stretches of the game are boring. So maybe Sony AAA games are over hyped and nowhere as good as reviewers would have us believe. I am also getting tired of the whole "stories with a side of gameplay" type of thing.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I am currently playing God of War, and although it is not a bad game, it is nowhere as good as all the hype indicated when the game came out. I would say that long stretches of the game are boring. So maybe Sony AAA games are over hyped and nowhere as good as reviewers would have us believe. I am also getting tired of the whole "stories with a side of gameplay" type of thing.

Now you see, the new God Of War was incredible. Sure it had a few rough bits but the gameplay was tippy too. Now THAT was a game, and the gameplay took centre stage over the story.

But again, different strokes!

 

[LittleBigGamer]

Absolutely. A game like Fifa can be amazing to one but to me, an absolute bore. Everybody has different opinions and thoughts, and that's why the very idea of a single score showing if somebody should like something is outdated.

Like what you like, dislike what you want. Doesn't matter the score or the platform. As long as you're having fun, awesome. If you're not, stop, and move on. That can be applied to anything really.

I agree with you. The only thing that I ''disagree'' is how do we express our take. ex, ''It's not for me'' is different from ''it is everage, or bad''.
Many games are not for me but I understand that are very good games.

 

[Insert Disk Two]

Now you see, the new God Of War was incredible. Sure it had a few rough bits but the gameplay was tippy too. Now THAT was a game, and the gameplay took centre stage over the story.

But again, different strokes!

Yep I would guess so. After playing a lot from the Yakuza series, nothing seems fun to me (slight exaggeration)

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Yep I would guess so. After playing a lot from the Yakuza series, nothing seems fun to me (slight exaggeration)

I always hear about how good those are but have yet to play one, I think I need to fix that.

 

[Paasei]

As a huge fan of stealth games, I actually really enjoyed the more simplistic stealth gameplay. You know, just from cover to cover and sneak behind someone or from around a corner to get them down.
Story wise and how the in-game world is driven, it really added to the tension rather than making it bland.
Hoping to see this in part 2 as well, which I am about to start after finishing up with this comment and dinner.

When I want a more complicated stealth experience I have the Hitman games, Dishonored games (you can make it has and easy as you want in terms of gameplay) and some (older) MGS and Splinter Cell games.

 

[Hudo]

It seems like people hold it in high regard. I do, too (the first one). But I also have to admit that, for me, it doesn't have much replay value. It's a game with a story and atmosphere focus, I think. The last Naughty Dog game that had the perfect balance of being a "cinematic experience" and being a game was Uncharted 2, which I replayed quite a lot. It felt snappy and "gamey", which later Naughty Dog games lost, IMO. I didn't much care for Uncharted 4 (dropped after a couple of hours) and I am kinda not interested at all in The Last of Us 2. But I hope people have fun with it! I do think that Naughty Dog are among the best in what they want to do but it seems like what they want to do and what I want to play doesn't align anymore, which is ok.

 

[Insert Disk Two]

I think reviews should give descriptions of various mechanics and how the game plays, and it is up to the reader/viewer to decide if the game is for him/her. No point in awarding the game a "mark". Let's say the following are game descriptors, it would be up to each and everyone to see if it is good or bad:

- game has a lot of cut scenes (or none at all)
- game is over 50 hours long (or under 15 hours long)
- game story is very complex (or straightforward)
- game is fast paced (or slow)
- game is super violent (or family friendly)
- game has underlying political messages (or none at all)
etc.

So yeah, tell me what the game is about, and let me decide if it is something I'd like or not, no marks required.

 

[PlayerPurple]

I think The Last of Us is a great fictional series trapped in the wrong medium.

While I have no desire to play or recommend a Last of Us game again, I'm beyond stoked for the upcoming HBO series.

 

[ZywyPL]

After almost a decade later, the game is still being brought up every now and then, so it clearly did something right and withstand the test of time. The gameplay is lacking due to AI issues and 30FPS controls, but other than that, it's one of those special games that happen once in a decade, like HL2 or Crysis.

 

[Trimesh]

After almost a decade later, the game is still being brought up every now and then, so it clearly did something right and withstand the test of time. The gameplay is lacking due to AI issues and 30FPS controls, but other than that, it's one of those special games that happen once in a decade, like HL2 or Crysis.

My primary memory of it was that it was the game that finally killed my old CECHA PS3 - I guess it really did hit the hardware pretty hard.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

The game has won the most awards of any game ever so yes it is overrated. It getting brought up over and over is as much a symptom of the single mindedness of critical consensus.

It's a really good game. But it's still overrated in that the industry won't shut up about it. Kinda like the Beatles. You can be really good and still be overrated, it has more to do with critical reaction than anything imo.

 

[joe_zazen]

The game has won the most awards of any game ever so yes it is overrated. It getting brought up over and over is as much a symptom of the single mindedness of critical consensus.

It's a really good game. But it's still overrated in that the industry won't shut up about it. Kinda like the Beatles. You can be really good and still be overrated, it has more to do with critical reaction than anything imo.

It can be irritatin.g,, but only because I resent useful idiots who stoke fomo in others.

I mean it is a video game ffs, and a ps3 one at that. You are sitting in front of a screen, pressing plastic buttons to experience a piece of corporate media; so there is a ceiling on how good that can be. Yet many voices will hail their game of choice as transcendent, must play, and vital and if you sont play it, you will have wasted your life.

maybe they actually believe it? Maybe it is even true for them, maybe videogames take the place of real life experiences. Like how young males have a drive to gain mastery over something in their youth and achieve a place in society, but some end up substituting CoD or Fortnite competence for irl stuff and dont want to be told the 'achievements' are chimerical, and the sense of satisfaction baseless, because to them, that is all they have.

Although, maybe I just cant experience things deeply enough to get it and there is real value in these products. beyond fun time wasting. Am I a blind man watching rudolf nureyev?

 

[EliTheIceMan]

I have nothing against the Playstation brand either and i also found the game average at best. Very boring compared to titles like The evil within 1 and RE2.

I don't believe you man I love the last of us

 

[EliTheIceMan]

I don't believe you man I loved the last of us

 

[wzy]

I've noticed over the years that where you come down on TLOU and Naughty Dog generally seems to have a lot to do with how desperate you are for mainstream validation of gaming as an artform. There was this entire genre of YouTube video at the time the original came out that basically consisted of showing Grandma or a schoolteacher or some other non-gamer the first 20 minutes and saying "See? Isn't this all worthwhile? Not such a failure now, am I?" and it was just the most pathetic shit imaginable. Like, that little morsel of approval from the outside world on the back of a cheap, manipulative narrative ploy was worth more than decades of hard won progress and painstaking iteration on a completely new and extraordinarily difficult creative medium. TLOU is kind of an exemplar of the whole miserable regression of games to movies and its no surprise that the people responsible are now exposed as being totally contemptuous of their audience and the whole gaming subculture. How can a videogame developer with a such deep philosophical opposition to fucking fun not eventually flare out like this?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Greg Miller's name has been forever tarnished for comparing The Last of Us II's gameplay to MGSVs gameplay. MGSV is still the beacon of hope shining in a sea of terrible playing single player games.

6 hours in, they are nothing alike, and we are all dumber for having listened to him.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Gameplay is ok. It's just kind of limited u will be shooting and bashing humanoids for the entire runtime. MGSV provides so many more tools and techniques that the gameplay is far more varied and customisable. Tho I would not turn down giving Joel the rocket punch to use in these fights.

TLOU really succeeds at resource management, making that a source of tension, balancing the number of enemies w the available crafting materials. That crafting and combat combo is the core gameplay loop. How much u like it differs from person to person.

Imo The visuals are the best thing about the game. Level design is simple linear yet looks very good. I noticed that in this game I go through a ruined building with US founding fathers patriotic displays and stuff, much like Bioshock Infinite also from 2013. There you rooted through desks and cabinets for ammo and healing items too. Then I noticed a trend, the Fallout games have similar stuff, and crafting via compulsive picking up Stuff that is lying around in a ruined city. All these games with ruined apocalyptic cities where you pick up bricks and scissors and tape and kill people in a destroyed world. TLOU isn't really doing any thing that unique.

Still, it doesn't matter, it does it with style. The lack of a HUD and the way it uses camera and other visual elements is very well done. The level design is like the parts of Bioshock Infinite where people complained and wanted a game with no shooting and just walking, a lot of this game is just walking and seeing beautiful visuals. So that's a big draw.

But in a video game I prefer the focus to be on the game. There were many parts where I got lost for a minute and looked for visual cues of where to go. I saw where Ellie and the other girl were hanging out so I went there thinking they were trying to give me a hint. Nope. Just cycling through a handful of random idle animations that had no bearing in where I was supposed to go. Eventually I found where to go but other games use more gamey visual language to help the gameplay, even if at the expense of the immersion. For instance DOOM uses green lights whenever there is a jumpable platform and this really helps instantly communicate where to go. Not so here. I guess the levels are linear enough to not need that. Still it kind of shows the focus is not as much on the video game aspects.

 

[Cliff Underside]

It's the videogame equivalent of oscar bait, only with the added downside of ludonarrative dissonance that makes the main character come off as a complete psychopath, a problem it shares with games like Uncharted and Tomb Raider. Other than that it's an ok game.

 

[scalman]

All games are for some kind of gamers and not for others. Choose whats for you and play those. If forced to play game from someones recomendation it wont be good or you will have false expectations.

 

[Dr. Claus]

The narrative is nothing new or even groundbreaking. IT borrows heavily from better written and better paced sources, the gameplay is a slightly altered and slower version of what ND has done in the past, and its level design is rather linear with very little you can do to change it up, outside of a handful of alternate routes.

However, while the story may be old hat for some, for others it may reach those emotional moments and surprises that they have not seen before. The characters are solid, it is written well enough that there is not inherent bias or agenda being pushed. Characters feel like characters and some are perfect examples of how minority/lgbt characters *should* be written.

For me personally, nothing in it surprised me, jumped out at me for being revolutionary, and overall it was just an "OK" game.

 

[Kokoro2020]

I never played it. I have it on PS4, but only because it was a free PS+ game a few months back. I haven't gotten around to trying it yet. Though, it doesn't look like my cup of tea, really. Same with Last of Us 2. Though, I do enjoy the Uncharted games.

 

[acm2000]

I never finished the first game, I fully respect naughty dog as technical wizards, but I'm always left somewhat disappointed by the gameplay in all of their games.

On a Technical level every game they make is 10/10, audio visual 10/10, but the actual gameplay/gunplay/etc maxes out 7/10 and never quite lives up to the rest.

This is just my opinion so console warriors please don't get your knickers in a twist, this opinion goes all the way back to crash ps1 era.

 

[martino]

they are narrative games first where the media is used to tell a story (and they are not pushing innovative / interactive way to do it)
it's one direction video games can take.
they are others but ND push boundaries each time they do a game like that (you can accept that even if you don't like the actual story)

 

[Elcid]

I'm not biased against PlayStation. In fact, even though I own an Xbox One X and a powerful self-built PC (i.e. i7-5820k, Asus X99, 16GB DDR4, GTX 1080 Titanium ), I have a sweet spot for my PlayStation 4 Pro because most of PlayStation's exclusive titles are great (e.g. Infamous: Second Son, Killzone: Shadow Fall, Uncharted 4, The Order: 1866, Horizon Zero Dawn, etc).

However, back in 2014 I bought The Last of Us: Remastered when I had my regular PS4, because I had never played the original release of the game. Despite the online community saying that it was a great game, I was very underwhelmed by it, so much so that I traded it in for store credit at my local GameStop after I reached the part that takes place in a decrepit subway system.

I found the gameplay to be boring, unoriginal, and repetitive, as it consisted of typical shootouts with bandits and exploration of different environments for resources while trying to be quiet in order to avoid attracting zombie-like creatures. In regard to the latter gameplay, I find Resident Evil 5 (the only Resident Evil game that I've played) to be much more engaging; there's tension due to the environmental designs and due to the zombies and other creatures being genuinely creepy and grotesque (e.g. human-sized insects, mutant dogs, skinless quadrupeds that lick you, etc).

Anyway, I've never understood the appeal of this game; I don't get why it's so popular. The gameplay is boring and unoriginal. If the reason is that the story is considered great, I don't see why, because it's boring and depressing, neither of which I want to experience when playing a game.

How do you guys feel about The Last of Us, and are you excited for the sequel? Are you as excited for the sequel as you are for Ghosts of Tsushima?

What made Last of Us so amazing was Joel and his suffering and decisions as a man and a father. The gameplay was meh imo. If it wasn't for my being able to relate to him, I probably wouldn't have cared for it. Also why I have zero interest in 2. 1 was so perfect with Joel and Ellie's dynamic that went they released the DLC for it I didn't even bother it because I knew it was going to somehow make the story worse. Why? Because every single time someone makes a perfect story, they shit it up. Don't know what happens in Left Behind and don't care. If you don't like the story of 1, then I can see why you thought it was a meh game. Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2, Metal Gear series and Netflix Castlevania Season 3 I'm looking at you real hard right now.

Also, I agree with you. Resident Evil 5 was incredible and a better game. I've beaten RE5 4 times. I beat TLoU once and could never bring myself to beat it again, the gameplay really didn't make me want to play it again. If you liked 5, you should try 6. It gets a lot of shit, but it's a great game that builds on RE5 in a lot of ways.

 

[the_master]

they are narrative games first where the media is used to tell a story (and they are pushing innovative / interactive way to do it)
it's one direction video games can take.
they are others but ND push boundaries each time they do a game like that (you can accept that even if you don't like the actual story)

Exactly. It is a cool experience with awesome graphics and a movie like story.
Nobody should put it as the pinacle of gaming or the way to go in videogames.
It is one type of game. A good one, but one that does not focus in gameplay.

I do think it is overrated. How good would the game be, if the graphics and art direction sucked?

 

[martino]

Exactly. It is a cool experience with awesome graphics and a movie like story.
Nobody should put it as the pinacle of gaming or the way to go in videogames.
It is one type of game. A good one, but one that does not focus in gameplay.

I do think it is overrated. How good would the game be, if the graphics and art direction sucked?

i forgot a negation they are not innovative or pushing / relying on interactivity ways to do it (at least imo)
but it don't change that, with each game, they are pushing beyond what they do.

 

[triplestation]

i have the same PC setup as you, except with a 1070 instead of a 1080

i never got too curious about tlou, i like the idea of post apocalyptic situations but i felt the environment is like claustrophobic and the gunplay is too slow, it seems miserable lol

from naughty dog uncharted 1 and 2 does it, nd went to shit as soon as that ended

UC1 and 2 have just enough amazing cinematics to balance with amazing game play

tlou and later games feel much more like a movie than a game

 

[EightBit Man]

It is an amazing game I think. But you have to have some skills, logical skillset and knowledge to play through it.

 

[taizuke]

Every time you approach something with insurmountable expectations there's a high chance (not always) you'll leave disappointed.

 

[GetemMa]

I can appreciate what it does well. It's environments are some of the best of the last gen. It's motion cap, graphics, voice work, and music are outstanding.

It's gameplay is not good imo. It's combat is sluggish and not satisfying. I know Joel is supposed to feel like a lumbering middle aged man but his movement speed isn't the problem, it's the way the shooting feels and the ways the enemies are designed to that drags it down. Then in between those combat set pieces you do a series of really lame environmental puzzles that just turns into you looking for the ladder, or box, or dumpster than you need to move over to this obvious spot. The AI controlling Ellie didn't jive with the rules that the game was trying to impress on you because while Joel needs to be quiet, Ellie is stomping around and it doesn't seem to matter.

The world building is really derivative. Some of the Zombie designs are good like the clickers, but as a whole it's not doing anything I haven't seen in the myriad of other post apocalyptic stories in books, tv, or films. It's just not special or memorable in that regard.

Overrated is a loaded word, but it's not a GOAT contender for me, not even close because ultimately I didn't really enjoy playing through it. It's story is memorable but not remarkable in my eyes. It does a lot of things brilliantly, but ultimately interactive entertainment needs to feel good to interact with and imo the Last of the Us does not.

 

[darth.shrimp]

Yes and no.
It is pretty good, however video game definitely wasn't the right medium for it.

 

[turtlepowa]

Yes and no.
It is pretty good, however video game definitely wasn't the right medium for it.

I wouldn't say that. Imagine it like Detroit. No mediocre action gameplay, but lots of decicions and different endings.

 

[Happosai]

Yes, it's one of the most overrated games of all time. It's a hand holding "cinematic" game that's not very fun and sometimes it's just flat out annoying.


I disagree. It's not even close. There are RPG's with better stories.

Indeed, there are RPGs with better stories. My wife downloaded TLOU remastered as it was being offered via PS-Plus. The story to me sounds and looks like something generic from Hollywood...proxy film. It's not a bad game but my wife didn't want to continue. No offense to any of the fans. There are many games and movies that I see where I can't justify the hype (like Disney/Marvel superhero movies...ugh).

 

[Shmunter]

Indeed, there are RPGs with better stories. My wife downloaded TLOU remastered as it was being offered via PS-Plus. The story to me sounds and looks like something generic from Hollywood...proxy film. It's not a bad game but my wife didn't want to continue. No offense to any of the fans. There are many games and movies that I see where I can't justify the hype (like Disney/Marvel superhero movies...ugh).

The difference between The Last Of Us and a Marvel movie is the slow burn of this game is more like a book. You sink your teeth into it, it's not just about the journey it takes you on, it's about the friends you make along the way.

No it's true.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I'm not biased against PlayStation. In fact, even though I own an Xbox One X and a powerful self-built PC (i.e. i7-5820k, Asus X99, 16GB DDR4, GTX 1080 Titanium ), I have a sweet spot for my PlayStation 4 Pro because most of PlayStation's exclusive titles are great (e.g. Infamous: Second Son, Killzone: Shadow Fall, Uncharted 4, The Order: 1866, Horizon Zero Dawn, etc).

However, back in 2014 I bought The Last of Us: Remastered when I had my regular PS4, because I had never played the original release of the game. Despite the online community saying that it was a great game, I was very underwhelmed by it, so much so that I traded it in for store credit at my local GameStop after I reached the part that takes place in a decrepit subway system.

I found the gameplay to be boring, unoriginal, and repetitive, as it consisted of typical shootouts with bandits and exploration of different environments for resources while trying to be quiet in order to avoid attracting zombie-like creatures. In regard to the latter gameplay, I find Resident Evil 5 (the only Resident Evil game that I've played) to be much more engaging; there's tension due to the environmental designs and due to the zombies and other creatures being genuinely creepy and grotesque (e.g. human-sized insects, mutant dogs, skinless quadrupeds that lick you, etc).

Anyway, I've never understood the appeal of this game; I don't get why it's so popular. The gameplay is boring and unoriginal. If the reason is that the story is considered great, I don't see why, because it's boring and depressing, neither of which I want to experience when playing a game.

How do you guys feel about The Last of Us, and are you excited for the sequel? Are you as excited for the sequel as you are for Ghosts of Tsushima?

One of the best games I've ever played from the combat, to the graphics to the engrossing story. Tlou 2 is also alot more of tht but evolved/refined.

 

[D.Final]

Yes and no.
It is pretty good, however video game definitely wasn't the right medium for it.

I agree with that description

 

[Humdinger]

Yes, in retrospect, I think so. Although it stood out from the pack in terms of its characters, writing, and storytelling, the rest of the game -- the combat and the world -- was run of the mill, at least in my opinion. I feel that the game got all its praise based on its story and characters, and these indeed were excellent (compared to other videogames), but I can't say any game with average combat and world is outstanding or excellent.

I'm sure it'll go down in the history books as one of the greats. Looking back, though, I think of it as a fairly average game with excellent story and characters.

 

[PrCat88]

The Last of Us is hailed as the 'Citizen Kane' of games. When did 'Citizen Kane' need a sequel/franchise?

 

[Explosive Zombie]

The Last of Us is hailed as the 'Citizen Kane' of games. When did 'Citizen Kane' need a sequel/franchise?

Godfather got a trilogy, tho

 

[wzy]

Just a friendly reminder of what this game is actually like, since it's likely been a while since many have played it:

• The most dangerous enemy in stealth sections is fucking blind. It literally cannot see you. This enemy is known as a "Clicker", an original idea completely unrelated to the "Licker" enemy of Resident Evil fame. Please do not steal.
• Like this enemy, bats, and bat-based superheroes, you are able to precisely locate every living organism within a 10m radius by hearing them. The genius GOAT developers, Naughty Dog, chose to represent this mechanic as a visual overlay. The enemies are not required to make noise in order for you to locate them this way.
• Disabling this feature introduces a modicum of challenge to the game and makes it vastly more fun, which is why Naughty Dog wisely chose to leave it on by default. Please be careful that you do not enjoy yourself by accident.
• The other zombie types are runners (they run at you) and bloaters (they are bloated). And you'd better believe the latter has big glowing weak spots that must be targeted in order to kill them.
• Zombies drop more ammo than humans who, despite being able to unload on you for hours, rarely have more than single handgun bullet in their pockets.
• Ammo drops are heavily based on your existing supply, meaning there is simply no reason at all to conserve ammunition. If you played through the entire game carefully hoarding bullets: sorry! You have been tricked.
• There is a completely vestigial character upgrade system that features a single useful perk, which you will certainly unlock first. The rest are pure filler and provide no new abilities or systems to engage with.
• There is a completely vestigial weapon upgrade system that generally features two blatantly useless upgrades and one good one. This allows you to create non-gimped versions of the weapons you find, such as a semi-automatic handgun that holds more than 6 rounds.
• There is a completely vestigial crafting system that provides you with the kind of consumable items that, in a more civilized age, would have been placed somewhere on the map for you to find. Your character is not in any way a "tinker" type of hero. He simply knows how to use duct tape and this is his critical advantage over his foes.
• You can craft single-use melee weapons that double as consumable lockpicks. The lockpick function also breaks after a single use.
• You can use this melee weapon as a crafting material to upgrade other melee weapons. The upgraded weapon breaks and reverts to a standard weapon after a single use.
• Crafting materials are themselves crafted: you must find first find 3-4 bits of twine or jugs of water or whatever before you have one whole bit of twine to use as a crafting material.
• Since the idiotic crafting system does not provide for the liberal use of weaponry and consumable items, the "zombies" are kind enough to accommodate you by never appearing in numbers. How they were able to bring the whole world to its knees is a mystery, considering any Walmart would have more the enough ammo stockpiled to defeat the entire horde.
• Throwing a bottle to lure enemies is the core mechanic. Seriously. The complimentary last-resort ability available in every single stealth game is the very heart and soul of TLOU's stealth gameplay.
• The bottles are also single-use.

This is easily one of the most degenerate piles I have ever played. It is totally overloaded with useless systems that do not amount to anything better than a progress bar, and yet they are all carefully hemmed in and enfeebled to prevent anything like "gameplay" from occurring in the moment-to-moment. Each of these systems is stolen from other games (and that's not even the full extent of the ND"s copy-pasting and general fraud) and each of them is generally ruined in some way in the transition. Almost everything that actually works is directly copied from Resident Evil 4, albeit with every morsel of fun surgically excised. And the rest is a mashup of familiar mechanics from contemporary games transplanted without a single novel idea for them to support. It is very much half-game, half-movie. Half of a game, half of a movie.

I fully grant that the characters are charming and their journey is an engrossing (if extremely derivative) one, but TLOU fails so hard and so consistently to be a videogame that I can't imagine why you wouldn't just watch a movie or read a book. There is not one original pixel to be found in the entire 15 hours, and you could just easily enjoy any of the dozen books, comics, movies, and TV shows that TLOU routinely steals from without subjecting yourself to such torturous game design. If you have any intuition at all for fun, or any concept of whats makes for an engaging videogame, you will find yourself just constantly exasperated by the missed opportunities and the shear laziness of a developer that is otherwise almost absurdly committed to every other element of their craft. The fact that it so lauded and consistently cited as one of the best games ever made is evidence of something very, very severely fucked up with the state of the whole craft.

 

[joe_zazen]

Just a friendly reminder of what this game is actually like, since it's likely been a while since many have played it:

• The most dangerous enemy in stealth sections is fucking blind. It literally cannot see you. This enemy is known as a "Clicker", an original idea completely unrelated to the "Licker" enemy of Resident Evil fame. Please do not steal.
• Like this enemy, bats, and bat-based superheroes, you are able to precisely locate every living organism within a 10m radius by hearing them. The genius GOAT developers, Naughty Dog, chose to represent this mechanic as a visual overlay. The enemies are not required to make noise in order for you to locate them this way.
• Disabling this feature introduces a modicum of challenge to the game and makes it vastly more fun, which is why Naughty Dog wisely chose to leave it on by default. Please be careful that you do not enjoy yourself by accident.
• The other zombie types are runners (they run at you) and bloaters (they are bloated). And you'd better believe the latter has big glowing weak spots that must be targeted in order to kill them.
• Zombies drop more ammo than humans who, despite being able to unload on you for hours, rarely have more than single handgun bullet in their pockets.
• Ammo drops are heavily based on your existing supply, meaning there is simply no reason at all to conserve ammunition. If you played through the entire game carefully hoarding bullets: sorry! You have been tricked.
• There is a completely vestigial character upgrade system that features a single useful perk, which you will certainly unlock first. The rest are pure filler and provide no new abilities or systems to engage with.
• There is a completely vestigial weapon upgrade system that generally features two blatantly useless upgrades and one good one. This allows you to create non-gimped versions of the weapons you find, such as a semi-automatic handgun that holds more than 6 rounds.
• There is a completely vestigial crafting system that provides you with the kind of consumable items that, in a more civilized age, would have been placed somewhere on the map for you to find. Your character is not in any way a "tinker" type of hero. He simply knows how to use duct tape and this is his critical advantage over his foes.
• You can craft single-use melee weapons that double as consumable lockpicks. The lockpick function also breaks after a single use.
• You can use this melee weapon as a crafting material to upgrade other melee weapons. The upgraded weapon breaks and reverts to a standard weapon after a single use.
• Crafting materials are themselves crafted: you must find first find 3-4 bits of twine or jugs of water or whatever before you have one whole bit of twine to use as a crafting material.
• Since the idiotic crafting system does not provide for the liberal use of weaponry and consumable items, the "zombies" are kind enough to accommodate you by never appearing in numbers. How they were able to bring the whole world to its knees is a mystery, considering any Walmart would have more the enough ammo stockpiled to defeat the entire horde.
• Throwing a bottle to lure enemies is the core mechanic. Seriously. The complimentary last-resort ability available in every single stealth game is the very heart and soul of TLOU's stealth gameplay.
• The bottles are also single-use.

This is easily one of the most degenerate piles I have ever played. It is totally overloaded with useless systems that do not amount to anything better than a progress bar, and yet they are all carefully hemmed in and enfeebled to prevent anything like "gameplay" from occurring in the moment-to-moment. Each of these systems is stolen from other games (and that's not even the full extent of the ND"s copy-pasting and general fraud) and each of them is generally ruined in some way in the transition. Almost everything that actually works is directly copied from Resident Evil 4, albeit with every morsel of fun surgically excised. And the rest is a mashup of familiar mechanics from contemporary games transplanted without a single novel idea for them to support. It is very much half-game, half-movie. Half of a game, half of a movie.

I fully grant that the characters are charming and their journey is an engrossing (if extremely derivative) one, but TLOU fails so hard and so consistently to be a videogame that I can't imagine why you wouldn't just watch a movie or read a book. There is not one original pixel to be found in the entire 15 hours, and you could just easily enjoy any of the dozen books, comics, movies, and TV shows that TLOU routinely steals from without subjecting yourself to such torturous game design. If you have any intuition at all for fun, or any concept of whats makes for an engaging videogame, you will find yourself just constantly exasperated by the missed opportunities and the shear laziness of a developer that is otherwise almost absurdly committed to every other element of their craft. The fact that it so lauded and consistently cited as one of the best games ever made is evidence of something very, very severely fucked up with the state of the whole craft.

You know, until I read this post, i didnt understand my feelings towards this game or my antipathy towards Naughty Dog. So, thanks for this great post.

Extending it a little further: the huge sales numbers of ND games has resulted in other sony studios imitating ND in whole or in part.

If you look at the trend of Sony's most well funded studios, you can see the homogenisation of design. Examine the output of the top 5 studios in each gen.

This gen, top Sony funded/owned games are 3rd person rpg-lite, single player, action adventure with narratives written to appeal to a specific crowd (16-35 year old American/American-fed middle class mainstream media consumers). This gen you have to go down the list until you get to the 2 million or less sellers to see variety: Bloodborne,, Driveclub, knack, and killzone. And how many of those will see ps5 sequels (in name or spirit)? Zero is my guess....well there is Demons Souls remake, so half a game. And I suppose there is the low budget sackboy and Ratchet games...

Realistically tho, given the sales numbers of Sony house style gsmes (8-19 millions per title) vs what I like (2 million or less), I really need to come to terms with the fact that Playstation WWS will not fund big games for me any more and let my anger go. I can be a real dumbass sometimes.

 

[rofif]

Just a friendly reminder of what this game is actually like, since it's likely been a while since many have played it:

• The most dangerous enemy in stealth sections is fucking blind. It literally cannot see you. This enemy is known as a "Clicker", an original idea completely unrelated to the "Licker" enemy of Resident Evil fame. Please do not steal.
• Like this enemy, bats, and bat-based superheroes, you are able to precisely locate every living organism within a 10m radius by hearing them. The genius GOAT developers, Naughty Dog, chose to represent this mechanic as a visual overlay. The enemies are not required to make noise in order for you to locate them this way.
• Disabling this feature introduces a modicum of challenge to the game and makes it vastly more fun, which is why Naughty Dog wisely chose to leave it on by default. Please be careful that you do not enjoy yourself by accident.
• The other zombie types are runners (they run at you) and bloaters (they are bloated). And you'd better believe the latter has big glowing weak spots that must be targeted in order to kill them.
• Zombies drop more ammo than humans who, despite being able to unload on you for hours, rarely have more than single handgun bullet in their pockets.
• Ammo drops are heavily based on your existing supply, meaning there is simply no reason at all to conserve ammunition. If you played through the entire game carefully hoarding bullets: sorry! You have been tricked.
• There is a completely vestigial character upgrade system that features a single useful perk, which you will certainly unlock first. The rest are pure filler and provide no new abilities or systems to engage with.
• There is a completely vestigial weapon upgrade system that generally features two blatantly useless upgrades and one good one. This allows you to create non-gimped versions of the weapons you find, such as a semi-automatic handgun that holds more than 6 rounds.
• There is a completely vestigial crafting system that provides you with the kind of consumable items that, in a more civilized age, would have been placed somewhere on the map for you to find. Your character is not in any way a "tinker" type of hero. He simply knows how to use duct tape and this is his critical advantage over his foes.
• You can craft single-use melee weapons that double as consumable lockpicks. The lockpick function also breaks after a single use.
• You can use this melee weapon as a crafting material to upgrade other melee weapons. The upgraded weapon breaks and reverts to a standard weapon after a single use.
• Crafting materials are themselves crafted: you must find first find 3-4 bits of twine or jugs of water or whatever before you have one whole bit of twine to use as a crafting material.
• Since the idiotic crafting system does not provide for the liberal use of weaponry and consumable items, the "zombies" are kind enough to accommodate you by never appearing in numbers. How they were able to bring the whole world to its knees is a mystery, considering any Walmart would have more the enough ammo stockpiled to defeat the entire horde.
• Throwing a bottle to lure enemies is the core mechanic. Seriously. The complimentary last-resort ability available in every single stealth game is the very heart and soul of TLOU's stealth gameplay.
• The bottles are also single-use.

This is easily one of the most degenerate piles I have ever played. It is totally overloaded with useless systems that do not amount to anything better than a progress bar, and yet they are all carefully hemmed in and enfeebled to prevent anything like "gameplay" from occurring in the moment-to-moment. Each of these systems is stolen from other games (and that's not even the full extent of the ND"s copy-pasting and general fraud) and each of them is generally ruined in some way in the transition. Almost everything that actually works is directly copied from Resident Evil 4, albeit with every morsel of fun surgically excised. And the rest is a mashup of familiar mechanics from contemporary games transplanted without a single novel idea for them to support. It is very much half-game, half-movie. Half of a game, half of a movie.

I fully grant that the characters are charming and their journey is an engrossing (if extremely derivative) one, but TLOU fails so hard and so consistently to be a videogame that I can't imagine why you wouldn't just watch a movie or read a book. There is not one original pixel to be found in the entire 15 hours, and you could just easily enjoy any of the dozen books, comics, movies, and TV shows that TLOU routinely steals from without subjecting yourself to such torturous game design. If you have any intuition at all for fun, or any concept of whats makes for an engaging videogame, you will find yourself just constantly exasperated by the missed opportunities and the shear laziness of a developer that is otherwise almost absurdly committed to every other element of their craft. The fact that it so lauded and consistently cited as one of the best games ever made is evidence of something very, very severely fucked up with the state of the whole craft.

I agree with Your description. It just plays well because it looks grat, animations and controls are good and the story/characters are great. The emotional impact of this game is fantastic but i dislike most of the gameplay ideas.
The little of gameplay there is (still way more than in 2nd game), it's very simple, cinematic and quite bullshit. How can a fire axe break in 4 hits!? cmon