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Is the Wii a modern Teddy Ruxpin?
- Thread starter Eteric Rice
- Start date
MisterHero
Super Member
yeah i agree drohne u r ritedrohne said:
what does nintendo know
they have all these things u listed but developers can ignore having those because they can replace any of them with hype and money*
*only nintendo has money
drohne said:
Fair enough, but man, all I'm suggesting is that there's nothing - nothing - stopping them from working on a game targeting the Wii's strengths and taking pride in creating one that they would want to play and have fun with. I'm sorry if I think yet another FPS isn't terribly exciting or another game in which killing anything that moves isn't particularly innovative. If you do, great; if they do, awesome.
I just find it creatively dull.
Of All Trades
Member
That would be more plausible if publishers got the same amount of money per title sold in the 6th month as they do on the first day.Leondexter said:
No, most artists hone their craft in their selected area in order to become a master, not skip around in a misguided attempt to become a jack of all trades. I'm having a hard time thinking of a jazz musician who was applauded for going metal.
That said, when I think of developers who were able to make a semi-decent product while clearly being indifferent towards what they were doing, Nintendo is the first company that comes to mind after 2008.
no, i'm pretty sure you were suggesting that anyone in the game industry who doesn't gratify your console politics has no imagination, vision, or ambition
which -- if this was not pure trolling -- is in the running for the single most hysterical gaf post ever
AND I SAY THIS AS SOMEONE WHO KIND OF READS THE KILLZONE THREAD
which -- if this was not pure trolling -- is in the running for the single most hysterical gaf post ever
AND I SAY THIS AS SOMEONE WHO KIND OF READS THE KILLZONE THREAD
drohne said:
If it floats your boat, be sure. Just find all this 'working on the Wii would creatively kill their interest and souls' rhetoric to be pretty silly.
EDIT: It's 'trolling' when I say that people seem to lack imagination when they choose to only do one thing and avoid doing anything else because it would 'hurt their interest in the product'? Did Kojima whine and complain when he tried to make Metal Gear games on the PSP? No. What's the difference?
Of All Trades
Member
It certainly killed any creativity in the souls of the Mario Kart, Smash, and Animal Crossing teams.Vinci said:
The Wario Shake team certainly didn't become big fish in a bigger pond, now did they?
Of All Trades
Member
I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way. But by all means, continue to defend Animal Crossing using your established criteria.Vinci said:
Of All Trades said:
Why are you addressing him with that 'big fish in a bigger pond' comment when he's not the one who made it? And no, not every game or its developer is going to light the world on fire, but if the Western developers are as talented as they seem - and I'm admitting they are - then they'd have a pretty damn good chance of making something pretty spectacular, allowing them to grow their market.
EDIT: If you don't like AC, okay. There are people enjoying it, including myself.
Eteric Rice
Member
Of All Trades said:
Oh Lord...
MisterHero
Super Member
and because the developer works on games you don't like means that they are indifferent
unless you're right and Miyamoto secretly hated working on WiiSports/Fit/Music
unless you're right and Miyamoto secretly hated working on WiiSports/Fit/Music
So basically, the dude is saying Nintendo themselves have to make a game where there are swear words and the object is to shoot off other peoples heads? AND it needs to sell as well as something like Mario Kart for other developers to feel comfortable making "hardcore" Wii games?
......
and then he goes on to mention Batallion Wars II not selling a shit load to prove his point? Batallion Wars II? Really?
This guy has NO idea what the problem is. The problem is that Devs/Pubs are constantly shafting the Wii either giving it
a) Good Ports with NO advertising
b) SHIT Ports, with NO advertising
c) Good original games, with NO advertising
d) SHIT original games, with NO advertising
Seriously, when was the last time you saw a commercial for a Wii game? Call of Duty WaW, and that was ONLY when EA realized it was selling decently
Wii tv ads simply do not exist and therefore they get no exposure and much less sales. Couple that with the fact that they are poorly made with little to no effort put into them (see above ex's b & c) and it's no reason Wii "core" games don't sell
This guy obviously has no clue of the real situation at hand. Thank the Lord SEGA gets it. Now all they have to do is advertise the hell out of the Conduit and let the $$$ roll in, and laugh at all the other Pubs. ..all the way to the bank
......
and then he goes on to mention Batallion Wars II not selling a shit load to prove his point? Batallion Wars II? Really?
This guy has NO idea what the problem is. The problem is that Devs/Pubs are constantly shafting the Wii either giving it
a) Good Ports with NO advertising
b) SHIT Ports, with NO advertising
c) Good original games, with NO advertising
d) SHIT original games, with NO advertising
Seriously, when was the last time you saw a commercial for a Wii game? Call of Duty WaW, and that was ONLY when EA realized it was selling decently
Wii tv ads simply do not exist and therefore they get no exposure and much less sales. Couple that with the fact that they are poorly made with little to no effort put into them (see above ex's b & c) and it's no reason Wii "core" games don't sell
This guy obviously has no clue of the real situation at hand. Thank the Lord SEGA gets it. Now all they have to do is advertise the hell out of the Conduit and let the $$$ roll in, and laugh at all the other Pubs. ..all the way to the bank
Frencherman
Member
Bizzyb said:
Pretty right, look what happened to a game like Disaster. It could have sold to one million with some advertising measures and now it is like it would have never existed.
Same goes for Deadly Creatures, I can't understand how THQ does not spend any money in appropriated advertising. What are they expecting?
Version 3.0
Member
Of All Trades said:
Some do. Nintendo most certainly does. Lots of games don't drop in price quickly. Boom Blox still hasn't, for example, and it's done a slow burn to a half million, if I recall correctly. I've been waiting to see Heavenly Sword on sale for $50 or lower since it hit stores, no such luck.
It's just another part of the broken business model for videogames that needs to change: a sales window longer than a month. And it's another aspect of the Wii that most publishers haven't yet caught on to.
Bluemercury said:
Who are all these developers people keep referring to? Where are their documented comments?
Epic and Valve are known, sure. But then, they have businesses and business models founded on the technology race. The Wii is outside of what they know and outside of their strategic plan. Of course they are going to be down on the Wii.
Who else?
The widespread developer conspiracy against the Wii alluded to in this and other threads is a myth. The reality is there are plenty of developers developing for Wii and enjoying the platform.
dude are you kidding me. An EA developer started the whole ductape crap. A Two human developer called the wii regressing. Developers and journalists have time and time again shitted on the wii during press events or podcasts. It's no myth it's just the reality of the industry.Mario said:
Western developers have created the community they cater. They don't care about local multiplayer, they don't care about advancing control input. They don't care about videogames becoming a lifestyle they don't follow. They showed it once with the DS and again with the Wii.
BishopLamont
Banned
But this time these companies are losing money.avatar299 said:
avatar299 said:
And what about the developers that have embraced it or not commented?
Seriously, the unsubstantiated extrapolation from those negative comments toward Wii has some totally overstating what the development community at large feels about Wii.
At the very least, blanket statements that all developers have a problem with Wii are obviously wrong on based on those Wii games that have been and are being developed alone.
I don't think you actually know what Western developers think or care about because I don't really know anyone in the industry like that. And I know a lot of industry people. Anecdotal yes, but no less anecdotal that referencing a handful of comments from interviews.
LizardKing
Member
I blame publishers. Why does every third party HD game have to be a shooter and every wii game have to be a mini/party game compilation. It's so stale, I'm sick of it. I'd bet you there are plenty of people who work on both of these types of games who want to do something different, on any system.
Bluemercury
Member
Bizzyb said:
where can we hear this dude ???
Metal Gear?!
Member
Yes, dreaded piracy, nightmare of all devs. That must be why they have all fled to the PS3, where games are impossible to pirate and thus the attach rate is the highest of the three consoles.3rdman said:
People are using them as relative terms, which is the problem. Last gen everyone called Madden and GTA casual because of their strong, consistent sales and wide appeal, despite their complicated and involving control and gameplay.Vinci said:
Thanks to the Wii and DS expanding the market, now people are using it to pretty much mean "a game your elderly mother might like to play"
Boom Blox dropped to $40 MSRP in the US.Leondexter said:
Bluemercury
Member
Darkpen said:
what panel video?where can we see it?
Vinci said:
But what you said is pretty fucking congruent with what I said:
Amir0x said:
In essence I was responding to dyls point of why these developers would want to make hardcore games, not why they would want to make hardcore games for PS360 only.
In other words...
It makes sense for these developers to make what they're passionate about, what they would prefer to play. That's not about lacking vision... who wants to work on something they give a shit about? I'm not talking about those people who are just satisfied to be working period... I'm talking a genuine passion to release a game that they want to play themselves. There's no real trade-off for that.
And while it's true many developers would prefer to make games on the type of hardware that PS360 provides due to its near limitless advantages over Wii, that is not to say that they shouldn't be challenging themselves to release the type of games they want to play ON Wii.
That is the point. If they aren't confident enough and they think Wii isn't a hardcore platform, yet Wii is demolishing PS360...why don't you fill the void and see how it goes? Someone is going to do it before you and become very successful, and it's not like the hardcore game you make won't have the possibility of being extremely fun.
I bet MAD WORLD is more fun than most games that come out this year.
saunderez said:
Well, it probably seems counter intuitive, but a lot of developers I know derive different pleasures depending on whether they are playing something as a consumer or actively contributing to the development of a game production. The consumption of game products and the creation of them are two different experiences.
For example, on our team we have artists who prefer playing realistic first person shooters, but actually prefer working on titles which are more stylised or expressive.
As another example, we have programmers who prefer playing RTS games, but cringe at the thought of coding one.
When we vote on internally generated game concepts, we actually ask people to vote seperately on "games you want to play" and "games you want to work on" to cover off both bases.
Thats not to say they don't derive enjoyment out of playing what they have created, but it comes from a different place, and isn't something I think you need to be concerned about as a consumer as generally developers will strive to do deliver the best product regardless of whether they themselves are in the target market.
I don't like this usage of the term hardcore.
To me hardcore means devoted fans who probably spend a disproportionate amount of their time and income with the products. To my mind Nintendo fans are amongst the hardest of the hardcore, hehe.
This dude seems to define hardcore gaming as games that are developed by current and former western PC game developers. Pretty narrow minded.
To me hardcore means devoted fans who probably spend a disproportionate amount of their time and income with the products. To my mind Nintendo fans are amongst the hardest of the hardcore, hehe.
This dude seems to define hardcore gaming as games that are developed by current and former western PC game developers. Pretty narrow minded.
A Twisty Fluken
Member
saunderez said:
There's a definite distinction there, though. It doesn't mean that the developer doesn't think enough of his work to play it. I've worked on games in genres that I personally don't click with, but as long as I understand the appeal, direction, and audience and am passionate about making sure the game is as good as it can possibly be, does it matter what my tastes as far as what I do with my free time are?
If it was simply "hey, this game isn't good enough for ME to want to play" then yeah, that's a concern, but that's not this.
Leondexter said:
Well thats the perception, and you can't go by strict number comparisions, i e PS2 sold X million consoles during a certain year and leads the race, Wii sells X million and leads the race thus PS2 = Wii, thats a bit too simplistic and doesn't really give any insight as to who is buying the Wii vs the PS2.
Based on purely personal anecdotal experience, I'd say there is some truth to the notion. The people I know who owned or still own a PS2, from "hardcore gamers" to those Madden/GTA players that supposedly are a bane to gaming....none of them own a Wii. Of all the people I know who own a Wii, most of them are my wife's friends (and her older brother) and had very little interest in traditional games, only one had a PS2, which they bought 2 years prior for the Cars game for their child. he now plays the Wii. I'll freely admit that its a relatively small sample size and doesn't mean anything conclusive. However those people I know who own a Wii are in it for Wii fit, Wii sports, games like that. They wouldn't care much for even mainstream fare like GTA, Gears of War, Final Fantasy. I think a few of them did have mario kart though.
Eteric Rice
Member
I blame publishers more than developers. There was a guy on another message board who claimed to be a developer for a large company. From what he said, they were working on a Wii game with a really good concept and features, but the publisher made them dumb it down because he thought it was "to hard" for Wii gamers.
They even tried to prove that it wouldn't be to hard, but to no avail.
They even tried to prove that it wouldn't be to hard, but to no avail.
Bluemercury
Member
Bizzyb said:
Is this the kevin levine and todd something video?
The Wii is the modern NES, end of story.
Subpar graphics, various peripherals, emerging genres, clear differentiation with PC-type experiences, not viewed as a "proper" gaming system by a number of enthusiast gamers, family-friendly, shunned by some high-profile publishers/developers (see EA back in the NES days), etc.
Add in a bit of Atari 2600 flavour to the mix (because of its non-fiction games like Wii Sports compared to Pong), and you begin to see why it's so successful.
Subpar graphics, various peripherals, emerging genres, clear differentiation with PC-type experiences, not viewed as a "proper" gaming system by a number of enthusiast gamers, family-friendly, shunned by some high-profile publishers/developers (see EA back in the NES days), etc.
Add in a bit of Atari 2600 flavour to the mix (because of its non-fiction games like Wii Sports compared to Pong), and you begin to see why it's so successful.
Eteric Rice
Member
Bluemercury said:
I believe so.
Link
The Autumn Wind
The difference being publishers were willing to make challenging games for the NES. You think we're ever gonna see stuff along the lines of Contra or Ghosts and Goblins on the Wii? It's like Eteric said, for whatever reason, most publishers think Wii gamers are all morons, and that's really where the problems stem from.Kilrogg said:
Kilrogg said:
Compared to what....an Amiga?
Kilrogg said:
Most of them had been established already in the arcade, but there's truth to that
Kilrogg said:
Also not noted for their playability. Computer games back there were pretty esoteric and not as fun to play. Occasionally you had something like California games or Skate or Die, but for the most part computer games were more difficult to get into
Kilrogg said:
Like who...Amiga owners? Some would argue that the NES days were the base that today's gamer culture grew out of.
.Kilrogg said:
The NES had a fair variety of games, some family friendly, but a bulk of their library catered to kids who liked games like Super Mario Brothers and Mega Man. EA also farmed some of their titles to the NES, like Skate or Die, or LucasArts did with Maniac Mansion. I can't think of too many big time computer games that the NES missed out on, but I'm sure there were some.
Kilrogg said:
ooookay now you're just bullshitting.