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[captmcblack]

I'd love to see a legitimate test of the Wii market be done, just fucking ONCE. I'd love to see a simple five title test from five publishers - let's see them produce 1 title of decent relevance with high-effort/budget/quality and top polish that equals that of a top Nintendo game.

Let's say the following lineup occurred:
Capcom: Strider 3
Square: FF XIII Versus
THQ: Darksiders or Saints Row
Ubi Soft: Prince of Persia
EA: Burnout

Let's say that this lineup of games would be required to have their usual top dev teams using their most resources and best tools to make these games, and would have an advertising budget commensurate with their spending on similar games they've released on other systems. Let's also say that these games would have to look, sound and play like at the very least, their best installment on the OG Xbox (which the Wii has matching abilities of). Let's also say that these games will be never allowed to exist on a rival console for the entire generation. Finally, let's also say that they would have identical features (where applicable) to comparable releases on the HD twins - so full online play, voice chat, local multiplayer, appropriately scaled full-sized levels, DLC, whatever.

I would have a hard time believing that the userbase on the Wii wouldn't buy those hypothetical games in large amounts. They have NO competition. However, third parties would never "risk" making those games on Wii when they could be fairly certain the HD twin userbases would buy them...or at least enough of them to keep them from going bankrupt.

...unless, of course, people didn't buy them and then they did blow up.

 

[pvpness]

start_anecdote

I'm far from Nintendo faithful, but I buy a Nintendo console every gen since the 64 simply for the Nintendo 1st party core titles.

/end anecdote

Maybe Nintendo's strategy was to get the masses in and then turn them into hardcore gamers? Sony did it with the PS2, kinda.

I think this technically makes you a Nintendo faithful. If it helps, I think there is a clear difference between a Nintendo faithful and a Nintendo fanboy. Though the example I provided is obviously a simplification I figure it paints a pretty decent albeit vague picture.

Depends on which side of the equation blinks first, really, doesn't it? I mean, if the 'industry' continues down an unsustainable path and Nintendo continues producing hit hardware and reap the benefits solely on its own, don't you think Nintendo is going to evolve to fill in the gaps in its own library? They're the only console company that has existed this long and remained this profitable.

I actually expect this to occur next generation. If it does and it works to even a moderate degree I assume that means terrible, terrible things for a lot of 3rd parties out there (especially western 3rd parties).

 

[quickwhips]

wii isn't dead its just nothing can sell like it was forever. I don't own one yet but I just think its impossible to sell like it did forever.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

What is it going to cost Nintendo to buy exclusivity for Call of Duty? For Prince of Persia? For Final Fantasy? For Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden even? For Assassin's Creed, or Gears of War? For Grand Theft Auto? Splinter Cell? What would it cost them to buy derivatives of those games (Medal of Honor? Bayonetta?) What would it cost them to buy exclusivity for second-tier games, like a Darksiders or something? Vanquish?

Bayonetta, Vanquish and Darksiders are all great examples of the types of games Nintendo should be partnering with third parties on. I suppose Xenoblade and The Last Story are good examples too, but they're being published by Nintendo. Why not get certain third parties to make a new IP exclusive to Wii but still owned by the third party? I they could get Mikami to make the next "RE4" or Kamiya to make the next "Devil May Cry" it could draw in a whole new crowd of gamers. It may also open the door for more third parties to come in.

 

[GCX]

I actually expect this to occur next generation. If it does and it works to even a moderate degree I assume that means terrible, terrible things for a lot of 3rd parties out there (especially western 3rd parties).

Nintendo is definitely trying to fill the gaps. They bought Monolith to make RPGs, formed Project Sora to make more hardcore oriented games, have great contacts with Monster Games for racing games, etc.

 

[poppabk]

And it's not like Nintendo has never done this. They paid for an exclusive mainline, 3D Tales game and paid for the localization and marketing. That would be exceptional if it weren't like Sony and Microsoft also do that all the time.

Which games have Sony subsidized? Honest question, I know that MS have thrown money hats around like it was going out of style, but i wasn't aware of Sony doing the same.

I think the reason that Nintendo gets grief for their 3rd parties is because Nintendo's first party output is 99% family friendly and some people are not interested in that. If instead of Uncharted, Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, Infamous, GTA5 etc Sony had released a bunch of family friendly titles - I think people in general would be a lot less happy with the PS3 software catalog.

I really think that Nintendo need a Miramax style division, which can release some more controversial and non family friendly titles without tarnishing the Nintendo brand name.

 

[captmcblack]

Bayonetta, Vanquish and Darksiders are all great examples of the types of games Nintendo should be partnering with third parties on. I suppose Xenoblade and The Last Story are good examples too, but they're being published by Nintendo. Why not get certain third parties to make a new IP exclusive to Wii but still owned by the third party? I they could get Mikami to make the next "RE4" or Kamiya to make the next "Devil May Cry" it could draw in a whole new crowd of gamers. It may also open the door for more third parties to come in.

I agree with this...but it's a matter of cost.
If it's going to cost 50 million to get them to make Bayonetta exclusively, and it only moves 800k copies, not only might it not have recouped the investment, but then all that happens is that if it generated a fanbase, that fanbase is going to move on when the developer invariably makes a non-exclusive sequel for other systems.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

I'd love to see a legitimate test of the Wii market be done, just fucking ONCE. I'd love to see a simple five title test from five publishers - let's see them produce 1 title of decent relevance with high-effort/budget/quality and top polish that equals that of a top Nintendo game.

Let's say the following lineup occurred:
Capcom: Strider 3
Square: FF XIII Versus
THQ: Darksiders or Saints Row
Ubi Soft: Prince of Persia
EA: Burnout

Let's say that this lineup of games would be required to have their usual top dev teams using their most resources and best tools to make these games, and would have an advertising budget commensurate with their spending on similar games they've released on other systems. Let's also say that these games would have to look, sound and play like at the very least, their best installment on the OG Xbox (which the Wii has matching abilities of). Let's also say that these games will be never allowed to exist on a rival console for the entire generation. Finally, let's also say that they would have identical features (where applicable) to comparable releases on the HD twins - so full online play, voice chat, local multiplayer, appropriately scaled full-sized levels, DLC, whatever.

I would have a hard time believing that the userbase on the Wii wouldn't buy those hypothetical games in large amounts. They have NO competition. However, third parties would never "risk" making those games on Wii when they could be fairly certain the HD twin userbases would buy them...or at least enough of them to keep them from going bankrupt.

...unless, of course, people didn't buy them and then they did blow up.

I'd like to see a game from Double Fine make it Wii. I know Tim Schafer made some comments about Gamecube, but I bet he regrets it now. I think a game like Psychonauts would be a good fit for Wii. Stryder is a good choice as well, especially if it were given a decent budget.

 

[Vinci]

Which games have Sony subsidized? Honest question, I know that MS have thrown money hats around like it was going out of style, but i wasn't aware of Sony doing the same.

I think the reason that Nintendo gets grief for their 3rd parties is because Nintendo's first party output is 99% family friendly and some people are not interested in that. If instead of Uncharted, Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, Infamous, GTA5 etc Sony had released a bunch of family friendly titles - I think people in general would be a lot less happy with the PS3 software catalog.

That's sort of what I was getting at earlier: Nintendo is family-friendly, that's undoubtedly true, but the reason it comes off as so dramatic is because there is next to no one else doing family-friendly at all. Seriously. Does every half-decent game developer have to make something that seems out to prove how much of a badass he or she is? I mean, really? They can't make anything but guns and cars and big-breasted women? That's it?

Okay, well... there's 5th Cell, but... yeah, this ain't healthy.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

I agree with this...but it's a matter of cost.
If it's going to cost 50 million to get them to make Bayonetta exclusively, and it only moves 800k copies, not only might it not have recouped the investment, but then all that happens is that if it generated a fanbase, that fanbase is going to move on when the developer invariably makes a non-exclusive sequel for other systems.

There has to be other incentives like lower licensing fees and advertisement as well. Also, 50 million dollars is a lot of money. I thought the average game was around 10.

 

[Sadist]

Actually, wouln't it be an idea for Nintendo to give third parties a shot at their classic francises or use of certain characters? I'm thinking of the same sort of collaboration like the one with Team Ninja with Metroid Other M.

Give Smash Bros. and Sakurai some rest for one gen and team up with Capcom for something like Nintendo vs. Capcom. Kamiya seems very interested in Star Fox, give it to him and Platinum Games. Don't know if it will help, but third parties always complain that Nintendo's software sells better.So let them make Nintendo software.

 

[GCX]

It's not like Nintendo ignores 3rd parties completely. They've done a lot of co-operation on publishing/localization and many games wouldn't probably have gotten a western release without their assistance. During the last few years for example NOE has published stuff like Dragon Quest 9, Trauma Center, Phoenix Wright, Layton, Zack & Wiki, etc.

 

[Vinci]

There has to be other incentives like lower licensing fees and advertisement as well. Also, 50 million dollars is a lot of money. I thought the average game was around 10.

Well, they have to pay the developer enough money to develop on their system in this scenario - which means the developer must forego whatever potential the game would have had on its originally intended system.

EDIT: Nintendo should not let 3rd parties make software from their IPs. No. Just... no. Nintendo simply needs to keep doing what it's doing while helping 3rd parties that want to work with them, invest in growing its body of talent, and make some changes on its production end so it doesn't strangle anyone willing to make software for its systems.

 

[pvpness]

Nintendo is definitely trying to fill the gaps. They bought Monolith to make RPGs, formed Project Sora to make more hardcore oriented games, have great contacts with Monster Games for racing games, etc.

They've made some interesting moves without a doubt. I think some have been good and some, ill-advised. It seems to me that if Nintendo was going to learn anything at all from this generation it's that 3rd party pubs/devs will basically trip over themselves to not work with Nintendo or even around Nintendo, despite context.

It only seems smart that with this information Nintendo would then be interested in a full frontal assault on all genres if they really wanted to dominate the market like in days of old. We'll see I guess. They could be content with their level of success this generation and not make that kinda grab. I would though because I'm greedy. :lol

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

The 3DS: Nintendo is not a big company. They have small, dedicated internal teams. With the 3DS push, could one say that many of the key Nintendo teams--the Zelda Team, after finishing SS and EAD Tokyo, who can be working on anything, with Miyamoto hinting on 3D Mario on the 3DS, could Nintendo's dev teams already moving onto the 3DS.

Nintendo is one of the largest in-house software developers. I can't think of any company that has as many engineers and designers under one roof. There is a lot more internal R&D that goes on besides the big cliche properties. A lot of random software, and an immense amount of experimentation for projects that never see the light of day, or become mini-games in Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon games.

Furthermore, even if sales drop to hell. Nintendo's strategy was brilliant. They became relevant again, avoiding obscuring that could've have easily happened after the Gamecube. They've shown everyone that a new market exist and can be catered to with great results and they've positioned themselves nicely for the next generation.

I think the strategy President Iwata is employing on the 3DS, really shows the company is consistently self-aware of their weaknesses. The only problem is that it takes them a generation to prove it to us.

Give Smash Bros. and Sakurai some rest for one gen and team up with Capcom for something like Nintendo vs. Capcom. Kamiya seems very interested in Star Fox, give it to him and Platinum Games. Don't know if it will help, but third parties always complain that Nintendo's software sells better.So let them make Nintendo software.

The entire give "popular third party company" a " Nintendo property" has yet to wield any financial success for anyone. Most of the time it just polarizes the Nintendo community unfavorably towards the "non-Nintendo" entity ruining the game. I mean creating a new concept is one thing (Nintendo vs Capcom), but not giving outsiders "star fox" or "stunt race fx" when all they do is lazily adapt it to an engine they have.

 

[szaromir]

They've made some interesting moves without a doubt. I think some have been good and some, ill-advised. It seems to me that if Nintendo was going to learn anything at all from this generation it's that 3rd party pubs/devs will basically trip over themselves to not work with Nintendo or even around Nintendo, despite context.

Ah, sweet old conspiracy theories. Nintendo could do one thing to attract third parties - build a platform that's friendly for multiplatform development. I know, it's crazy and absurd, but that's how these incompetent 3rd party publishers work.

 

[captmcblack]

If Nintendo tried to fill in the gaps, it would be interesting.

Could Nintendo amass enough talent and spend enough money and time polishing things so that they could leverage their huge stable of IP to create, say, top-tier:

- sim and arcade car racing games
- first-person shooters (that aren't Metroid)
- third-person shooters/cover shooters/espionage shooters
- third-person action/adventure games
- console J or WRPG games
- spaceship combat/exploration games

In addition to their already top-tier franchise offerings in whatever genres they occur in (see: Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Smash, Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Punch-Out, Excite, Donkey Kong, et al)?

If they were to do that and rise to even more epic heights without the rest of the industry, you'd figure shit would get infinitely more real than they did this gen. As much as Activision, EA, Ubi, Rockstar, THQ and friends have circled their wagons and survived without needing Nintendo for much more than subsidization via shovelware and ports, they suffered a lot of losses betting on the solvency of the HD twins. Could they go it alone again knowing that they couldn't even make money on crapware for whatever Nintendo console, since that console really did have competition from Nintendo in every genre?

What would their excuse be if their next console had feature parity with rival options...but now Nintendo had god-tier IP in every genre too?

 

[Vinci]

Ah, sweet old conspiracy theories. Nintendo could do one thing to attract third parties - build a platform that's friendly for multiplatform development. I know, it's crazy and absurd, but that's how these incompetent 3rd party publishers work.

Um.. not until this generation. Multiplatform didn't become a hard and fast rule until this generation blew budgets through the roof. I'm not suggesting that it didn't appear before; obviously, it had. But nowhere near on this level.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The entire give "popular third party company" a " Nintendo property" has yet to wield any financial success for anyone. Most of the time it just polarizes the Nintendo community unfavorably towards the "non-Nintendo" entity ruining the game. I mean creating a new concept is one thing (Nintendo vs Capcom), but not giving outsiders "star fox" or "stunt race fx" when all they do is lazily adapt it to an engine they have.

Excepting Mario vs. Sonic, I assume?

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Excepting Mario vs. Sonic, I assume?

I made exception to creating something new. And Mario vs Sonic is such an all-star Mario Party thing.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Ah, sweet old conspiracy theories. Nintendo could do one thing to attract third parties - build a platform that's friendly for multiplatform development. I know, it's crazy and absurd, but that's how these incompetent 3rd party publishers work.

But the Gamecube was the literal definition of a graphics competitive console. The worst things third parties had to do was adapt to the controller and possibly print two discs.

It's more about the Nintendo culture than the Nintendo hardware. No one complained that the DS could not get the multiplatform titles the PSP could.

 

[Sadist]

The entire give "popular third party company" a " Nintendo property" has yet to wield any financial success for anyone. Most of the time it just polarizes the Nintendo community unfavorably towards the "non-Nintendo" entity ruining the game. I mean creating a new concept is one thing (Nintendo vs Capcom), but not giving outsiders "star fox" or "stunt race fx" when all they do is lazily adapt it to an engine they have.

Fair point. Should have thought about when Other M shattered the Metroid fanbase.

Well, let's just say creating new concepts would a better venture. I just thought about Capcom who are clearly interested in crossover titles demostrated with the versus games and Layton vs. Ace Attorney.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Waaaaaaa...Nintendo should BUY support...

No...they shouldn't.

Face it, it wouldn't work 'cos at the core these game makers don't like Nintendo. They don't. People like Itagaki like the way MS does business, same with Kojima liking Sony...they're fanboys at heart and they won't make a serious game for a Kidtendo home console. And Nintendo is never going to be MS/Sony. So why try?

Out of all your fanboy dreams of "Nintendo should open the warchest" it should have been realized that there's other reasons to have that much money. In case something disasterous happens (like Virtual Boy), to prevent hostile takeovers, to get them through the "rainy days" as Yamauchi called them...like an ecconomic depression and/or game industry crash (both of which are very possible in the coming years).

But here's another one you dreamers don't see. Let's say Nintendo buys a major franchise to come to Wii or it's successor...that creates 2 problems for them. #1- It would never end, game makers would be lining up (like they did to MS, much to their own detriment in Japan) for free Nintendo foodstamps & stimulous packages...it's not real support, it's a sham. #2- Those who actually supported Nintendo without those kickbacks would either expect them from then on or go elsewhere.

Everyone who's suggesting Nintendo buy 3RD party "support" are the same ones who wanted a WiiHD last year with "hardcore" games on it. They're basically asking Nintendo to kill themselves for a very small (yet vocal) minority. Nintendo doesn't make "casual" or "family oriented" games either...they simply make games for everyone...the moment they make games that are demographically assigned to this or that is the moment that game is no longer a Wii phenom seller. Unfortuatly Nintendo has been taking too much advice from a dying industry when they did much better not listening to the competition!

As far as 3RD party support goes, if they're not willing to properly support a 70M strong market leader, then fuck'em...seriously, they're in the wrong business. Deep down they're praying for the 10yr dream on the HD twins to happen so they can stay afloat all while making millions of excuses not to support the market leader. But despite disinterest/stagnation/decline overall Sony/MS are somhow going to last to 2015 or more? All while Nintendo can't survive that long, they (don't) need "the industry" and the only way to get their support is to rush to a WiiHD so they can support (shoddy/late/half-assed/cash-in ports) them (all while making "real" games for PS4/X720) or else Nintendo is doomed (they're not)!

Hogwash, Sony/MS will probably be the first to talk of next-gen before Nintendo will and the Wii *as-is* will last just as long as PS3/X360...if not, longer.

 

[Vinci]

Hogwash, Sony/MS will probably be the first to talk of next-gen before Nintendo will and the Wii *as-is* will last just as long as PS3/X360...if not, longer.

That's got nothing to do with why they would introduce a new console before Sony or MS. Nintendo's not competing with Sony or MS anymore. Get over it. Nintendo is competing with itself at this point, and right now, it's losing. The 3DS will help, but the Wii's decline - regardless of the reason behind it - is not a good thing for them.

 

[dacuk]

Guys, if you were to suggest Nintendo to invest (money hat) on some third party franchises (maybe exclusivity for some months, not necessarily permanent exclusivity) to help establish a "beach head" for their new console (Wii 2, or Wii HD or whatever you want to call it) which ones would you suggest? (Based on the feasibility of the exclusive time frame to be kept, visibility of the franchise, the amount of fans it could help to attract to the new console, etc.)

 

[Sadist]

Games from western developers. Something Bioware perhaps.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Waaaaaaa...Nintendo should BUY support...

No...they shouldn't.

If anyone needed more evidence they should, there you go.

 

[civilstrife]

The argument that third parties fail on Nintendo consoles because Nintendo overpowers the market with their own games kind of confuses me.

Third parties do just fine on DS, and Nintendo's own efforts are no weaker on that device.

So what's the difference?

Both platforms have a considerably bigger install base than their nearest competitor,
Both platforms provide far weaker graphics than the competition
Both platform's top 10 lists are dominated by Nintendo Software

And yet, developers left Wii in the dust, while DS receives a bounty of quality third party games games every month. Why?

 

[DrGAKMAN]

That's got nothing to do with why they would introduce a new console before Sony or MS.

Probably more if hardware is ready or not, or moreso the software that would show us why we would need this hardware. Which leads me to dream about what Nintendo is R&Ding on the hardware side...just HD, just better WiiMote or something like full-room ambiance projector or holograms!

 

[Vinci]

The argument that third parties fail on Nintendo consoles because Nintendo overpowers the market with their own games kind of confuses me.

That's because it's bullshit. Hence the confusion.

EDIT:

Probably more if hardware is ready or not, or moreso the software that would show us why we would need this hardware. Which leads me to dream about what Nintendo is R&Ding on the hardware side...just HD, just better WiiMote or something like full-room ambiance projector or holograms!

Well yeah, that too. My point is, Nintendo could very well launch a next-gen console prior to Sony and MS - not because they're strictly competing with Sony & MS, but because the hardware is ready, the software is ready, and Nintendo feels that their system's current performance is hurting them financially, be it stocks or otherwise.

 

[farnham]

nintendo does not need to buy thirdparty games

they need to get their dev studios bigger

they really should have more people working on games

because strong first party is what they are good in.

also..

they definately have grown a lot in the recent years

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

It's about damn time sales started to slow. I think they did well capturing and containing the frenzy for as long as they did.

And though it's not like the Wii is dead, Nintendo is still in the perfect position to get the next-gen party started. I don't think they will - they're probably focusing on the 3DS for now - but there's an opportunity here for them.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The argument that third parties fail on Nintendo consoles because Nintendo overpowers the market with their own games kind of confuses me.

Third parties do just fine on DS, and Nintendo's own efforts are no weaker on that device.

So what's the difference?

Both platforms have a considerably bigger install base than their nearest competitor,
Both platforms provide far weaker graphics than the competition
Both platform's top 10 lists are dominated by Nintendo Software

And yet, developers left Wii in the dust, while DS receives a bounty of quality third party games games every month. Why?

Who said it was rational?

At the end of the day, third parties feel that they are releasing games as good or better than Nintendo is but Nintendo gets everyone's money. Or that they have to release games as good as Nintendo does to get the money. The point is, Nintendo is releasing games and third parties are frustrated they have to compete with that.

Iwata even acknowledged this in his GDC 2009 keynote.

At this year’s GDC keynote, Nintendo President Satoru Iwata addressed the common complaint that third party companies just can’t compete with Nintendo. Iwata explains that he used to feel the same way before he came to work at Nintendo, and saw Miyamoto’s creative process at work.

I sincerely hope understanding his (Miyamoto’s) methods might be some help to you. Maybe even inspiring.

Is it a bad excuse? Probably! But third parties still use it as one and there is literally nothing Nintendo can do to stop it. Crying foul is the last resort of a scoundrel and short of stopping game development, it will always be an excuse that Nintendo will have to find a way to work around.

 

[poppabk]

nintendo does not need to buy thirdparty games

they need to get their dev studios bigger

they really should have more people working on games

because strong first party is what they are good in.

also..

they definately have grown a lot in the recent years

What they need is a subsidiary that is not directly tied to the Nintendo name. It would give them free rein to experiment a bit.

 

[Amir0x]

Erm no, the capabilities on offer prior to Kinect were limited or wasn't reason enough to invest (for the Wii audience). 360 is set to do its best numbers yet 5 years into its life, i dont see how features i mentioned will not play a significant role. Its not going to see Wii like success im pretty sure, but performing like it has so late is what im focusing on, relative to Wii.

These people don't give a shit about these features. They are quite literally buying the system only for Kinect, as is the case. 360 is a poor set top box.

 

[[Nintex]]

Waaaaaaa...Nintendo should BUY support...

No...they shouldn't.

Face it, it wouldn't work 'cos at the core these game makers don't like Nintendo. They don't. People like Itagaki like the way MS does business, same with Kojima liking Sony...they're fanboys at heart and they won't make a serious game for a Kidtendo home console. And Nintendo is never going to be MS/Sony. So why try?

Sakaguchi, Warren Spector would never work for 'kidtendo' consoles, oh wait. :lol

Out of all your fanboy dreams of "Nintendo should open the warchest" it should have been realized that there's other reasons to have that much money. In case something disasterous happens (like Virtual Boy), to prevent hostile takeovers, to get them through the "rainy days" as Yamauchi called them...like an ecconomic depression and/or game industry crash (both of which are very possible in the coming years).

I'm not saying they should blow all that money at once but throwing a bone here or there might strengthen their position in the market, especially when their development time doesn't match up with the competitors. For example, MS pumped out a bunch of Kinect games of this year and Nintendo can't keep up with that pace.

But here's another one you dreamers don't see. Let's say Nintendo buys a major franchise to come to Wii or it's successor...that creates 2 problems for them. #1- It would never end, game makers would be lining up (like they did to MS, much to their own detriment in Japan) for free Nintendo foodstamps & stimulous packages...it's not real support, it's a sham. #2- Those who actually supported Nintendo without those kickbacks would either expect them from then on or go elsewhere.

Nintendo is willing to spend money on Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter and the likes, but won't fork over some money to save Cing.

Everyone who's suggesting Nintendo buy 3RD party "support" are the same ones who wanted a WiiHD last year with "hardcore" games on it. They're basically asking Nintendo to kill themselves for a very small (yet vocal) minority. Nintendo doesn't make "casual" or "family oriented" games either...they simply make games for everyone...the moment they make games that are demographically assigned to this or that is the moment that game is no longer a Wii phenom seller. Unfortuatly Nintendo has been taking too much advice from a dying industry when they did much better not listening to the competition!

Nintendo hasn't taken advice from anyone, Zelda got delayed because the graphics got changed and Wii Relax(the next 'big' thing is MIA). They thought they could bank heavily on 2D platformers after the succes of New Super Mario Bros. but a more diverse line-up would've worked out better.

As far as 3RD party support goes, if they're not willing to properly support a 70M strong market leader, then fuck'em...seriously, they're in the wrong business. Deep down they're praying for the 10yr dream on the HD twins to happen so they can stay afloat all while making millions of excuses not to support the market leader. But despite disinterest/stagnation/decline overall Sony/MS are somhow going to last to 2015 or more? All while Nintendo can't survive that long, they (don't) need "the industry" and the only way to get their support is to rush to a WiiHD so they can support (shoddy/late/half-assed/cash-in ports) them (all while making "real" games for PS4/X720) or else Nintendo is doomed (they're not)!

I believe a Japanese company went out on a rant as to why they don't support Nintendo and they had good reason to speak out against some bullshit policies. And yes, third parties heavily invested in HD systems because Nintendo at that time had no plan to share with the rest of the world. That's why Factor 5 left because they were frustrated that Nintendo wasn't telling them their next move. When Ubisoft started working on Red Steel, Nintendo refused to send devkits and had them make the game on GameCubes.

The problem Nintendo is facing now is that their hardware from 2000 can't run modern engines. You can't integrate Wii games into the development pipeline easy. If you want to build a Wii game, you have to do it from the ground up. The second problem is that they can't expand their hardware much further. They're unable to redesign their online system because of the way it's set-up.

Hogwash, Sony/MS will probably be the first to talk of next-gen before Nintendo will and the Wii *as-is* will last just as long as PS3/X360...if not, longer.

Even if Nintendo is selling hardware at the same pace, their software sales are getting lower and lower. I think MS will be the first with a new system, keeping the controls(Kinect) the same, but launching a new more powerful box and upgrade to Kinect 2.0 later to give it a second wind.

 

[1-D_FTW]

What they need is a subsidiary that is not directly tied to the Nintendo name. It would give them free rein to experiment a bit.

I don't see how it would matter. They make plenty of amazing games outside the established home run hitters. They just never do the big numbers and by half-way through the cycle, it's nothing but the usual suspects.

The number of awesome of arcade racers they have is incredible. But they're always overshadowed by the infinitely inferior Mario Kart and they just die on the shelves.

As much as people may not like it, there's a method to their madness. Money. And sadly, they know where the money comes from. Thankfully new launches usually give us a couple surprises before the regulars take over.

 

[duk]

I think the hype finally died out and things are now normalized. It was a FANTASTIC start. Now, Ninty has to put up enough effort til Wii 2 comes out.

edit: Doom and gloom? Nah, but mega-super start over? Yes.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

I guess I'm more frustrated that Wii outsells the competition for so long and the instant they aren't it's OMG alarmist reporting WiiHD 2011 Nintendo is doomed BS again. I mean, I guess I shouldn't be surprized...but what's upsetting is that: A) everyone believes in the 10yr cycle dream to the point where that dooms Nintendo 'cos they can't last that long, B) WiiHD ASAP is the only solution or else Nintendo is doomed again and C) Nintendo is doomed if they don't make an easy-to-port-to WiiHD & moneyhat some games which magically makes all other publishers follow...all for support they don't even really need.

It's broken, yet eveyone thinks those are the simple answers.

I'm open to all possibilities, but the ones listed above seem to be the only possibilities people discuss...as if they are gospel or something. Reggie said 45M in the USA, I'll wait 'til then to find out more. Sales are gonna be down 'til then, big deal...why the need to have Wii selling god-like or else it's dead?

What's more important (to me) is not the Wii successor's hardware power/release date...it's the thing that's going to make games more fun and the software to help sell it. It'd also be nice to have some of that kind of software for Wii too, but I'm content for now, especially with 3DS coming soon.

 

[poppabk]

I don't see how it would matter. They make plenty of amazing games outside the established home run hitters. They just never do the big numbers and by half-way through the cycle, it's nothing but the usual suspects.

The number of awesome of arcade racers they have is incredible. But they're always overshadowed by the infinitely inferior Mario Kart and they just die on the shelves.

As much as people may not like it, there's a method to their madness. Money. And sadly, they know where the money comes from. Thankfully new launches usually give us a couple surprises before the regulars take over.

But they are all crowded in that family friendly space, and there is a big audience out there who have no interest in playing those games no matter how good they are. Nintendo won't develop and release a Killzone 2 or Uncharted 2, the closest they came this gen was Disaster and they buried that, and I doubt it was anyway as 'adult' as first party offerings from MS and Sony.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

It's been FOUR years people (pretty much an entire console lifespan) and it's merely "declining". This is completely normal, nothing is out of the ordinary. This happened with pretty much ever console in the previous generation. The only reason why the 360 and PS3 aren't seeing such sharp decline is probably because they weren't at the $199 price barrier.

16/32-bit/4th generation (1989 - 1995) [started in 1987]
32/64-bit/5th generation (1995 - 2000) [started in 1994]
128-bit/6th generation (2000 - 2005) [started in 1999]

:lol Talk about straw grasping.

 

[jufonuk]

I think this is the last stages in the Wii's life I (a hardcore Nintendo fanboy at times) can see the writing on the wall, once the 3DS hits the Wii will be put out to pasture, seriously now that Kinnect and Move are taking the USP of the Wii plus the HD graphics, what else is there left to generate new sales?....1St part Nintendo titles??

ok but I don't see many more coming out in 2011 it is all about the 3DS......
Nintendo deny it but the succesor to the Wii is coming late 2011 early 2012....

jsut this time Nintendo, focus A LOT ON THE ONLINE SOCIAL ASPECT of gaming.... it is something you need to get your focus on...also jsut make it 720P Minimum at least...

what ever Nintendo Follows up with I hope it is as inovative and out there as the Wii was originally, it had a good ride and hope it gets a good send off in style, it's been fun.. I've had a blast but it is time to move on make it late 2011 for the new 'Wii2' and keep the momentum going, the worst thing Nintendo can do is sit on it's laurels

 

[Sadist]

Nobody is asking for WiiHD and they are not doomed.

 

[1-D_FTW]

But they are all crowded in that family friendly space, and there is a big audience out there who have no interest in playing those games no matter how good they are. Nintendo won't develop and release a Killzone 2 or Uncharted 2, the closest they came this gen was Disaster and they buried that, and I doubt it was anyway as 'adult' as first party offerings from MS and Sony.

I don't really expect shooters. I still hold grudges for that TV campaign for the original Metroid Prime where they paid for some kidified CG for the commercials and wouldn't show the amazing footage for fear of letting soccer Mom's associate Nintendo with violence. I'm just talking about the WaveRace, F-Zero, Pilotwings, Pikmins of the world.

The two games I'm most looking forward to at 3DS launch are Steel Diver and Pilotwings. Don't expect either to sell very well. And they're not the type of Nintendo games I expect to see internally developed mid cycle by Nintendo.

 

[jufonuk]

Nobody is asking for WiiHD and they are not doomed.

I think the General Masses and 3rd party devs would be happy with a nice Shiny looking output that a HD machine could give.. I am not saying the Wii is doomed just that is on it's way out or gonna be phased out

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The problem with a Wii HD is there's no way to just magically making every existing Wii in to an HD system and transitioning now without a proper generational leap could be disastrous.

 

[Vinci]

Nobody is asking for WiiHD and they are not doomed.

Yes, people need to recognize that saying the Wii has declined in sales in just pure fact; it has. Is this understandable? Yes. The Wii was going to decline. Nothing maintains that level of sales forever; it's unrealistic.

So yes, there will be no WiiHD and Nintendo is not doomed.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Guess I've been reading/talking to the wrong sensationalists when it comes to the level of how doomed Nintendo is. I'll let that go.

Anyways...just wanna get a feel for the crowd. You have two options, will Wii's successor be a refined evolution (a more traditional bump), or will it be another revolution (new gimmick, doesn't have to be another Wii-like change, but something new)?

 

[ViperVisor]

Well, lets look at the beginning of this generation - which was massively impacted by the last generation:

MS brings out the 360. The system is alone for a year. MS uses its massive warchest and influence on PC developers to build a strong library of willing supporters.

Sony, meanwhile, is bringing out the successor to the most popular video game system of all time. The company has always had a very strong relationship with 3rd parties. They price the system higher than people want, but everyone still believes Sony will end up the victor in the market.

Gearing up for these two, 3rd parties invest a huge amount of capital and effort into HD development and tools. Every game they produce is going to cost a fortune, but MS and Sony are good for it from their perspective.

Nintendo, dead last the former generation and generally shunned by 3rd parties for two generations in a row, releases the Wii as a way to differentiate themselves and keep their costs down, but also to attempt to appeal to a large audience from the start.

Given this scenario at the beginning of this generation, do you honestly feel Nintendo was in any position to out-spend or out-do either MS or Sony on moneyhatting or general support for 3rd parties?

This.

It doesn't mean Nintendo should not of tried for a small slice at the center or some things on the edges. They probably did. Can't be sure just because there is absence of evidence.

 

[jufonuk]

In no way is Nintendo Doomed just it makes sense that they will slowly phase the Wii out while denying they aren't then introducing the Wii's Sucessor, keep the interest and mommentum up