The Chairman
Member
Its not the only reason but it helped.
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Is There Any Fanservice In Western Games For Straight Men Anymore?
- Thread starter The Chairman
- Start date
- NSFW
Its not the only reason but it helped.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
So how did the previous games sell well? The first of them enough to spawn two sequels even? And where's your evidence? You personally didn't buy it because it didn't have such costumes?
Either way isn't that a good thing still? That their hand wasn't forced to include stuff just to get more sales but instead the developers were free to make what they wanted how they wanted?
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
it is sad that we still don't have an og classic costume for Lara.
i enjoyed the 3 reboots but the sex factor was definitely lacking. it's a bit like taking away the sex from James Bond. you end up with an entirely different character.
i enjoyed the 3 reboots but the sex factor was definitely lacking. it's a bit like taking away the sex from James Bond. you end up with an entirely different character.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
They probably just thought og costume looks dumb with modern graphics, rather than too sexy.
They have the old costumes in Lara Croft Go (lovely game btw) where they look pretty fitting.
Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light/the Temple of Osiris games had the classic stuff too.
They have the old costumes in Lara Croft Go (lovely game btw) where they look pretty fitting.
Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light/the Temple of Osiris games had the classic stuff too.
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DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
The West hardly understands the straight male nowadays, so it comes as no surprise.
The Chairman
Member
I dont have any evidence and so are you, but i see a lot of complaints from gamers in youtube videos, twitter and other places so it seems a lot of people didn't buy it because of the lack of sexy outfits, i didn't buy it and a lot of my friends because we thought she looked like a buff young man in this game.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Wow, great. My evidence is the first two games selling fine, hardly the same as random people commenting on youtube or this thread.
Great that you're so into gaming you don't care whether the game is good nor not, just check videos of all costumes before a purchase.
Great that you're so into gaming you don't care whether the game is good nor not, just check videos of all costumes before a purchase.
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magnumpy
Member
where are you from? the east? china? russia?
The Chairman
Member
I mean, the game itself is not that good, the graphics is not great and the gameplay is mediocre so i was trying to find something that justifies paying 60$ for it.
UAE.
azz0r
Banned
Can you explain how it's overreacting? I'd assume if you have a problem with overreacting you might point out the original post which is highlighting the struggle of the straight mans plight that game characters are wearing clothes and he now has to rely on porn instead of video games.
InterMusketeer
Member
Sure. When problematic depictions of women were in games it was alienating real women, non-inclusive, sexist, and devs just weren't aware of the nefarious messages they were sending, and the bad influence they had on our culture.
But now that they're listening to intersectional feminists, the developers are finally free to do what they want! Thank you feminists, you freed us from the evil men who forced us to put sexy women in our games! You removed the gun that was threatening us to put cleavage and bikini armor in our games. Thank you!
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
Ghettoizing sexual content only to the realm of literal pornography is dangerous.
Is there really no middle ground between a little eye candy and full on porn?
ROMhack
Member
I don't count myself as bothered personally but I think OP is largely right.
Most feminists I know don't give a shit about it - in fact most girls I know love sexy dames, straight or gay or somewhere in-between - but a tiny minority seems to have made developers uncomfortable about what might happen. They've reacted inappropriately to fear of a threat, like building a bomb shelter for a mild storm.
It's Rurouni Kenshin dude. 19th century Japan would be my guess.
I think gaming could do a lot more to grow up than covering women's titties. It's sometimes just a shallow solution to a bigger problem.
Most feminists I know don't give a shit about it - in fact most girls I know love sexy dames, straight or gay or somewhere in-between - but a tiny minority seems to have made developers uncomfortable about what might happen. They've reacted inappropriately to fear of a threat, like building a bomb shelter for a mild storm.
It's Rurouni Kenshin dude. 19th century Japan would be my guess.
I think gaming could do a lot more to grow up than covering women's titties. It's sometimes just a shallow solution to a bigger problem.
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What does this even mean?
I totally do not understand this idea that "games" need to grow up.
Surely within the entire medium of games there is room for genres that are not "grown up" and also room for games with fanservice character designs?
It's somewhat childish in itself to not understand that there is room for all types of games to exist and that a couple of games that have hot women in them just being hot is hardly the scourge of the industry.
Fuck, how do you even look at the range of games available RIGHT NOW and not see that gaming has already "grown up".
Whatever the fuck that means anyway. Shit, even my lowly Commodore 64 had games with stories and themes and thoughtful design back in the late 80s and early 90s.
If sexy Lara Croft isn't profitable these days then, fair enough, devs might want to consider not going there.
What I'm not really understanding is what would be the problem if they did decide to go with Sexy Lara?
Do Horizon Zero Dawn or Uncharted Lost Legacy suddenly not exist because I developer went in a different direction?
Personally I believe that the new Tomb Raider games would have been better if they had stuck more to Lara Croft's roots and just ran with it. Everyone knows what Tomb Raider is and how it made itself a recognizable name and I think a sexualized campy Bayonetta-esque style would be more popular.
Of course it's funny that the efforts to make Lara Croft more "inclusive" they have basically turned her into Discount Nathan Drake.
If "growing up" means taking one of the most iconic, recognizable and bankable character designs (Lara Croft) and turning it into an inferior knockoff of an already bland and uninspired design (Nathan Drake) then why would we even want that?
The new Tomb Raider embraces mediocrity solely to avoid community backlash. It's sad.
Sure, they'll get their pats on the back for "growing up" with their philosophy on character design but is it really worth it?
DreamsiclesPlz
Member
I can't say I've paid even the smallest amount of attention to how sexy/unsexy western game characters have become. Like not in the least. I thought the re-designed Lara was fine.
KiteGr
Member
I pretty much hate all these Otaku dedicated Idol/moeblob/pantyshot-filled echii anime for covering 80% of the new releases and most of them being uninspired trash with few exceptions.
However in Videogames the situation has kind of reversed. Ever since the industry realized that girl gamers existed all along, rather than simply offering fanservice for the other team, they instead started turning everything into a politically correct mess. What few eye-candy we get (mostly from Japan) gets removed by the localizers, because "blood and gore are more ok than showing some extra egotism". The final nail in the coffin is Japan pretty much falling behind and slowly abandoning the Video game industry in favor of mobile trash, and Sony moving over to the Amerikas adopting the puritan ideals of the area.
While in Anime it's the bane of the industry, in video games I kind of miss that stuff.
Anyone remembers how in Ghost in the Shell for PS1, they chose to go with Shirow's sexualised art style, instead of following the ultra serious style of the 1995 movie or the hybrid of the SAC series?
However in Videogames the situation has kind of reversed. Ever since the industry realized that girl gamers existed all along, rather than simply offering fanservice for the other team, they instead started turning everything into a politically correct mess. What few eye-candy we get (mostly from Japan) gets removed by the localizers, because "blood and gore are more ok than showing some extra egotism". The final nail in the coffin is Japan pretty much falling behind and slowly abandoning the Video game industry in favor of mobile trash, and Sony moving over to the Amerikas adopting the puritan ideals of the area.
While in Anime it's the bane of the industry, in video games I kind of miss that stuff.
Anyone remembers how in Ghost in the Shell for PS1, they chose to go with Shirow's sexualised art style, instead of following the ultra serious style of the 1995 movie or the hybrid of the SAC series?
magnumpy
Member
bullshit. based on your elocution and speech patterns you are not Arabic. you are clearly an American teenage male attempting to hide your nationality in order to obfuscate your obvious misogyny. you have been exposed as a liar and if any mod would care to look up your IP this could be easily verified. هل تفهمين ما الذي يعنيه ذلك؟
MisterBrimstone
Member
Bigger tits update for games incoming.
ROMhack
Member
I'm fairly sure it's because in those instances, females do exist as passive entities largely for the sake of sexual gratification. They're like puppets and I think that's what any vocal critic in the West tends to hate. I've personally never heard women I know complain about sexiness if the character isn't a complete weakling. I don't doubt it happens but I think crappy characters + gratuitous sexiness is the thing people are against. Unfortunately developers don't really get it so have used 'covering up' as some sort of idiotic simple solution.
Ghost in the Shell is a brilliant example to bring up, although I'll have to disagree that the 1995 movie is bad because it's serious. The sexualised art-style of Motoko is well known as a strong deconstruction of female body image. Motoko initially exists as a puppet lacking free-will. In the beginning she has nude scenes and could easily be considered as existing for sexual stimulation, but over the course of the story grows more human-like. The philosophical themes of free will and technology mean she stops being defined by her body (and ergo sexuality). She ends up offering strong characteristics that make her both an excellent hero and an autonomous being. NieR Automata does a similar thing with 2B.
You've said the movie is too serious so maybe you'll disagree but I think this is exactly the point of Matoko (and the American movie is WAY more po-faced by avoiding it!).
radewagon
This is perhaps a better example of what I meant when I said games could do more than just covering up tits.
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mitch1971
Member
The Chairman
Member
Your arabic is bad, you wrote " do you understand what this mean?" but like you are talking to a woman. you should say "هل تفهم ما الذي يعنيه ذلك؟ "
you obviously used a google translate, i think there is arab members here, i saw one called khalid here, they can talk to me and see if im from UAE or not, also i can tell you that most arabic gamers hate SJWs and we laugh at them in our Arabic language forums all the time.
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
In order for games to grow up, they must be allowed to have games aimed at grown ups.
Geki-D
Banned
If you're talking actual games where this stuff matters (games with scenarios, not phone games, puzzle games) then I'd be pretty comfortable in saying that I'm sure there are more female anime fans than girl gamers or the numbers are at least extremely close to one another.
I don't think they realised there are actual women playing, first off I just don't think western devs have honestly ever been too big on fan service or at least nowhere near the levels you can see in Japanese games. Most likely a cultural thing but one that's been in our culture from about 50-odd years. Secondly and most importantly I think that devs in the west evade fanservice, not because of anyone playing but because they know it'll get them negative attention from the outside. So yeah, they didn't want to appear on Fox News about 18 to 30 years ago and now they don't want rainbow colored hair Twitter profiles tweeting at them. ...And most likely still appearing on the news.
ExpandKong
Banned
TIL only straight white males enjoy titties and are assholes for doing so.
2018. We’ve come a long way baby!
That’s some day one dlc I can get behind.
2018. We’ve come a long way baby!
That’s some day one dlc I can get behind.
InterMusketeer
Member
By completely shifting to the other side. Right.
Well, we've seen how that worked out for Battlefield V, everyone's Battlefield.
Wimbledon
Member
It's not just video games though, for some reason appreciating the erotic nature of the female form, is sacrilegious. Even more so today with feminism. I kinda wish we were like Japan and just go full throttle with it.
Just to clarify i want developers to create a character the way they want to, i'm all for that. Just like i want developers to take risk with those characters, and take on elements that won't sit well with a lot of people.
One of the major problems at least to me is how stagnant the industry has become , since it's become more political.
Just to clarify i want developers to create a character the way they want to, i'm all for that. Just like i want developers to take risk with those characters, and take on elements that won't sit well with a lot of people.
One of the major problems at least to me is how stagnant the industry has become , since it's become more political.
This point of view never really made much sense to me either.
Sure, there is an untapped user base out there that the general, generic, video games is not necessarily appealing to.
The way it's presented though is as if McDonald's should change the Big Mac because they have a potential untapped vegan and vegetarian customer base out there.
Surely, the correct solution is to offer alternative products for these under served populations?
The main arguments I see are that games need to "grow up" and the like but this doesn't seem like a solution.
I think you would cater to a new audience by offering new products to that audience?
No by adjusting the product and hoping that the lost customers are outweighed by the customers gained?
I'm not sure, for example, to what extent a redesign of Lara Croft's character encourages more sales or even encourages more ladies to pick up a Tomb Raider game?
petran79
Banned
Had you played western computer games in the 80s-90s, most notably 16bit systems, the amount of fanservice and nudity was on par with the Japanese.
ToughestSoul
Member
That's the thing, though. Do "50% of the population" (i. e. women, I guess) not like or even despise sexy depictions of women? In my experience that just isn't true. Of course, there is a difference often what women and men perceive as "sexy" but the current crop of colorless and bland (western/American) gaming figures satisfy no one or only a tiny vocal minority, I wager. It's almost as if there is finally a female version of the "bald space marine".
I freely admit that my opinion is anecdotic and based on real life observation, not some hard facts.
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Geki-D
Banned
I did.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
They really don't. All of their female models are the same outside the face. There is no THICC.
Great contribution to the thread friend!
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Aurelian
my friends call me "Cunty"
Sexy appearances for women are fine, but there should be a sense of agency to that choice, a positivity to it. Think Bayonetta; she revels in it, she owns it, but she also doesn't just exist as eye candy.
The problem is, the OP and some others don't really seem to care about that. It sounds more like they're just looking for some masturbation material. "An ample amount of cleavage really isn't necessary for this character in this situation? Don't care, I want to jerk it!" You don't have to celebrate that they toned things down, but good gawd, if you're complaining loudly that Black Cat 'must' pour out of her top in a video game, you need a girlfriend... or at least some porn.
The problem is, the OP and some others don't really seem to care about that. It sounds more like they're just looking for some masturbation material. "An ample amount of cleavage really isn't necessary for this character in this situation? Don't care, I want to jerk it!" You don't have to celebrate that they toned things down, but good gawd, if you're complaining loudly that Black Cat 'must' pour out of her top in a video game, you need a girlfriend... or at least some porn.
ExpandKong
Banned
Isn’t Black Cat typically exactly the kind of character who “owns it” as you say? I was going along with you until you chose her as your example. EDIT: and accused the OP of being some kind of girlfriendless dweeb who needs some porn, apparently.
Besides, there are degrees to this kind of thing. This version of Black Cat looks like Marvel did a crossover with fucking PJ Masks.
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S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Why wouldn't somebody want to look at something that is good looking rather than a purposely made mediocre character (appearance wise) to pass off as politically correct? How is that in 2018 western female characters have become uglier purposely? Or realistic? Do these people even go out? Women have a wide range and can be beautiful it's not something rare. I never understood this whole "wow get a gf you nerd" approach dismissive people take when somebody dares question why devs these days started making humble ass looking fictional characters.
The Chairman
Member
Sometimes i like to see sexy women without a dick thrusting in them.
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DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
What is the moral imperative for this to be followed?
This line of thinking is ripped straight out of the Puritant playbook.
ThatStupidLion
Member
OP should check out Virtual Valerie 2.
All the fan service you need.
All the fan service you need.
Flapples
Member
And ill just sit here like a normal person and acknowledge that video games aren't real and should be enjoyed from anyone's point of view.
InterMusketeer
Member
I'm sure you can present some examples of your own to debunk his argument then, right?
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
It's hard to say without any numbers. I started gaming with the SNES and Western games never seemed to have as much sex appeal as Japanese titles and I don't think YouTube comments are proof that anything has changed.
You're not wrong but...
Like not having hyper-sexy outfits in a video game franchise that wanted to be taken just a bit more seriously than a tomb raiding chick in an ice cavern? In shorts? That's not something I consider "coming to them/me", but that could just be me.
On the other hand, I still find Lara sexy. I also found Charlize Theron in Mad Max damn sexy because of her attitude, how she gets shit done and other things. Sexyness doesn't always work via cleavage revealing outfits. I don't think that adding fan-service really add something to game. With that being said I don't mind having them if there it's optional. Still many games that cover that kind of fan service, although there are might be a bit fewer ones than roughly a decade ago.
Aurelian
my friends call me "Cunty"
Well, I'm not sure if she does, really -- in this case it's not as if she's some huge champion of sexual positivity in the game (in the comics it could be another matter).
And think about it... if you're so upset about the absence of T&A in your games to create a lengthy post bemoaning it, what does that say about your priorities? Never mind relationship status... there's this thing called porn that shows way, way more than a bit of cleavage, and it's typically free! You're chasing up the wrong tree if you need your games to serve as titillation.
bilderberg
Member
It's okay to sexualize if they got a fat ass, but big boobs and cleavage now a days is a big no no. Have y'all seen Lara's booty in Shadow? I swear it keeps getting bigger and bigger, but boobs just get smaller. I wan't both god dammit.