it's a JRPG that has a lot in common with WRPGs
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Is your connotation of the term "JRPG" negative?
- Thread starter Inuhanyou
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it's a JRPG that has a lot in common with WRPGs
That's not what it means. It refers to a style of RPG traditionally made in Japan. There are RPGs made in Japan that definitely are not JRPGs. I know many people feel the way you do, but it's incorrect to classify games like Dark Souls as JRPGs.
Why are you trying to present your opinion as fact? That's not how this works man. There are multiple definitions of JRPG and no widespread agreement on which is factual.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Generally speaking of course.
You can define a JRPG by the fundamentals of not being able to go into a battle screen or possibly some sorta limit.
Just because your hero gains points and has a stamina bar doesn't mean it's a JRPG. It could be classified as an action game with RPG elements.
I'd say FFXV is more of an action game with RPG elements because you are not limited by much and there isn't a battle screen or some sorta hold.
There is a results screen, but IMO it holds on by just a thread.
The tales series is more of a JRPG than Dark Souls is.
I guess I wouldn't call Dark Souls an outright JRPG.
According to who? There's no official definition for these terms.
I know there are other definitions, but that doesn't make them good definitions.
What makes your definition better than any other?
Xilium
Member
Honestly, the only people I see arguing for JRPG =/= Japanese developed RPG are all here on GAF and Dark/Demon's Souls tends to always be the focal point. For whatever reason, some people are just hellbent on disassociating that game with the JRPG label.
Personally, I think the game is very Japanese from a mechanical and philosophical design perspective. It being a "sword and board" action RPG is the only remotely western thing about the game imo.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
You are wrong and keep trying to present your opinion as fact. The term is open to interpretation because the genre has evolved but at its most basic level JRPG refers to any role playing game to come out of Japan.
Because the other definitions unfairly pigeon-hole any RPGs made in Japan into the category of JRPG even if they don't fit the typical style of JRPGs.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Apparently only games with stereotypical anime characters, cliche storylines, and turn based combat can be considered JRPGs.
But that's the issue, JRPGs have morphed and had so many incarnations that saying there is a typical style seems silly.
That's what I'm trying to say. Using the definition for JRPG as Role-Playing Game made in Japan, is unfair to RPGs in Japan that don't fit this criteria. Sorry, if I freaked out a little. I've settled down a little, and I realize I shouldn't have presented it as if it were fact.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Where do you place tactics? It's sure a different game outside of a traditional JRPG. I believe it has changed too, but genres are still genres.
You can call it what you like, but there is a way or a nomenclature of genre to put games in at the end of the day. If you have to string it together you must do so. I think you need to be specific for the record, but cut it short for your own benefit?
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
A lot of this resonates with me. I think it's safe for me to say that without Japanese influence I probably would have very little interest in games as a whole. I do enjoy some Western games but what's always captivated my interest and passion and what's kept me thinking about what's coming in the future are Japanese games. They have a unique cultural flair, experience and history that is readily apparent in their games. The kinds of stories, characters, worlds and gameplay systems I've experienced in Japanese games are the reason why I have any interest in art now that I think about it more.
Well I consider Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, and Etrian Odyssey to all be JRPGs. Fire Emblem is a cross between a JRPG and a SRPG / TRPG. Final Fantasy, well I shouldn't have to explain. Kingdom Hearts is a JRPG since it has all of the same kinds of tropes. Just as other ARPGs like Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3, the Ys series, etc. are also JRPGs. Etrian Odyssey is also a JRPG, because it is inspired by Wizardry which is widely credited as the precursor to JRPGs.
If some people consider Dark Souls an CRPG shouldn't they also consider Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy CRPGs because they're based on games like Wizardry and Ultima?
Agreed.
Agreed.
How about Console RPG vs. Computer RPG? I realize there are plenty of games that would fall in to Console RPG that are on PC, namely many oldschool Japanese PC RPGs, but these generally have been the commonly used terms long before the term JRPG was even a thing.
Right, just drop the "j." It's an RPG. I'm sure there are other adjectives we can use to better describe the role-playing subgenres.
I apologize for freaking out at you. You're entitled to your own opinion. It was wrong of me to present it as fact, and I apologize for that.
I would prefer if we only call them RPGs and then talk about the mechanics. Turn Based Party RPG, Action RPG, etc.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I don't think it is useless. I think cultural impact on art is undeniable. The culture of Japan being markedly different (not better or worse) than western countries has had a significant impact on their art and continues to. Sure, at they've always influenced each other, just like many other genres influence each other and for that reason I don't think it is significant.
A Japanese developed RPG that is inspired by western developed RPGs, that borrows heavily from western developed RPGs, I think is still a JRPG. I've seen western developed claim to be inspired by JRPGs. That is great, I think. They aren't JRPGs, they are WRPGs and the developers aren't misrepresenting their product at all.
I suppose that would be better. Turn Based RPG, Action RPG, Tactical / Strategy RPG, RPG I guess for ones that don't fit into those categories. You could further divide T/SRPGs into Real-time T/SRPGs and Turn-Based T/SRPGs. Also not all Turn Based RPGs, have paused time between turns, but they can still be called Turn Based RPGs. I forgot Dungeon Crawlers too.
Is Wizardry a JRPG or not? It did inspire many earlier JRPGs, so I guess it could count particularly all the recent Wizardy games made in Japan.
And as I said before the terms offer no room for RPGs made in China or Korea, both of which have their own traditions of RPGs.
The ones made in Japan? Sure. But the originals made by Sir-Tech aren't.
But still, I don't like calling them JRPGs or WRPGs, it doesn't say anything about the game besides "It has numbers in it".
We don't do it for any other genre though. We don't have Japanese third-person shooters and Western third-person shooters, they're just third-person shooters. I understand where you're coming from and I don't want to deny a genre's place of origins or how it's influenced or anything like that. I just think as they are now, the term JRPG is can be incredibly inaccurate in describing what the game actually is or how it plays like.
But those things are simply design choices, the last 30 years are full of jrpgs that don't follow all or even any of those rules. Dragon Slayer, Hydlide, Tales of, Star Ocean, Mana series, Ys, Terranigma, King's Field, Kingdom Hearts.. and I don't think we need to list more recent stuff.
Jrpg is a term that we shouldn't even use, it has no meaning.
Soltype
Member
So you consider Honda's built in the US American cars?
I know so little about the car industry that I honestly don't know what to say about that
Something I would like to note, is that in Japan the term TRPG refers to non-video game RPGs like D&D. It quite literally refers to Tabletop RPGs. In Japan SRPGs are generally refered to as Simulation games, within the subgenre of strategy. Generally they use the abbreviation RPG, like we do, but for SRPGs they use SLG, the same category we would put games like SimCity in.
You might have seen on Japanese sites, abbreviations such as ACT, ADV, SHT, SIM, SLG, RPG, and that's what I was referring too.
You might have seen on Japanese sites, abbreviations such as ACT, ADV, SHT, SIM, SLG, RPG, and that's what I was referring too.
I don't even consider American cars built domestically to be American. The parts and assembly process is so screwy. American auto hasn't been the same since the 70s.
"JRPG", to me, evokes Dragon Quest, Pokemon, Persona, SMT, Final Fantasy ATB style stuff. I understand that some like to refer to games like Dark Souls or Shining Force or Tales as "JRPG", but it doesn't make sense to me to group those together with the above.
I'm not a huge fan of the former type of game. I often like the aesthetics, but I find myself getting deathly bored of the battles in those games far before the game ends. So, sure, when I hear that a game is a "JRPG" my initial reaction is that I won't get into it.
I'm not a huge fan of the former type of game. I often like the aesthetics, but I find myself getting deathly bored of the battles in those games far before the game ends. So, sure, when I hear that a game is a "JRPG" my initial reaction is that I won't get into it.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think we do have japanese shooters and western shooters, although we just don't use the terminology often. There is a popular Korean shooter you may have heard of - Crossfire (over 4.5bil USD revenue since release in 2007). Oh, it is totally a CS ripoff btw.
I don't think the way we talk about games is actually definitive and is just imperfect or fluid. Someone mentioned something about Korean RPGs not having a place within Western and Japanese genre definitions. But they do, the Korean RPG genre is actually quite distinct from JRPGs, but I've little experience on that front myself outside of one or two korean developed MMORPGs (I forget their names but f2p MMOs are apparently huge in korea + china).
Frankly, I think we put too much importance on genre designations and I don't think the way we talk about video games in terms of genre needs to be so defined. For instance, and this is a game I've never played but, Kingdom Hearts could very well be described both as a aRPG and a jRPG. I don't think the two designations are mutually exclusive. Genres are just groupings that describe things.
I recall having this discussion in a philosophy film class. I don't think it is clear cut. I feel strongly about my position but it doesn't bother me if someone disagrees about the way I think what genres are and how we ought to view them as.
So in short, I don't think the designation of jRPG is useless, but I also don't think it is that important to label it or think of it that way either.
Dark Souls no. Shining and Tales games most definitely yes.
Soltype
Member
I know so little about the car industry that I honestly don't know what to say about that
Just because something is made in one country doesn't make it a product of said country.Honda cars built in the US are still based on their japanese design, so they're Japanese cars.Same with RPGs, mechanics rooted and predominantly used in WRPGs don't become Japanese when used in JRPGSs.
Etrian Odyssey and Wizardry are both Dungeon Crawlers. Though I would call EO a JRPG mainly because of the anime art. Then there's The Dark Spire, which has no anime style art. I'm conflicted on whether it's a JRPG, since it quite clearly is trying to emulate the style of RPG Wizardry is. EO is also trying to do the same, but it has a lot of stuff that puts it firmly in the JRPG category.
WickedLaharl
Member
Where are you getting this shit? Just making it up as you please?
Not sure what you mean? What exactly do you take issue with what I just posted?
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I always loved the old JRPGs (DW/FF) and struggled with the western sort (Ultima). As tech advanced I loved JRPGs even more, mostly for their art and original worlds. Then FFXII and FFXIII happened. And I love DA:I now. So who knows.
I don't really disagree, the purpose of genres in video games are to group them based upon what kinds of emotions they want to invoke in the players and the mechanics they are using to do this. How things fit into genres are already pretty ambiguous. My problem with the term "JRPG" is that it doesn't even do that, by grouping all RPGs made in Japan under the term JRPG it doesn't describe the differences in mechanics and the emotions they invoke in the player and that's why I don't consider it a useful term.
Yes. It conjures up images of moe, juvenile characters facing impossible odds, bad writing, poor VA, gameplay systems stuck in the 90s and more.
I used to love them, now I'd rather play WRPGs all day evrryday. Which have their own problems of repetitive quests, mediocre stories but generally pair up with good characters, great VA and tight gameplay.
FYI for this discussion at hand I don't really consider the Souls series/BB to be RPGs at all, just action/adventure games that mix RPG elements (like every game these days).
I used to love them, now I'd rather play WRPGs all day evrryday. Which have their own problems of repetitive quests, mediocre stories but generally pair up with good characters, great VA and tight gameplay.
FYI for this discussion at hand I don't really consider the Souls series/BB to be RPGs at all, just action/adventure games that mix RPG elements (like every game these days).
Soltype
Member
You should play FFXII, it's almost an antithesis of what you described.
abercrombie
Member
If asked about 10 years ago I would have said sure; JRPGs were not something I would be keen to delve back in to. My thinking was mostly they are console constricted and I had outgrown their audience.
Since then I've played a few janky western RPGs (IMO) and now I realize its really just a matter of YMMV.
I just played the Fire Emblem Awakening demo and fell in love with it almost instantly, I consider it a must buy now. I also really like The Last Story and sort of enjoyed Xenoblade Chonicles.
Bottom line, tagging a game as JRPG is a positive now more than ever.
Since then I've played a few janky western RPGs (IMO) and now I realize its really just a matter of YMMV.
I just played the Fire Emblem Awakening demo and fell in love with it almost instantly, I consider it a must buy now. I also really like The Last Story and sort of enjoyed Xenoblade Chonicles.
Bottom line, tagging a game as JRPG is a positive now more than ever.