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It feels like Apple isn't changing the game anymore.
- Thread starter ZombiePlatypus
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People still use the "sheep" thing? Fucking hell, be original.
Sir Abacus
Member
Case in point:
Eight years late, managed to create a new market that Microsoft couldn't.
There are things that make sense doing with fingers that don't when you use a stylus. Stuff like pinch to zoom or swiping. Now, I'm not saying it isn't possible to have both and have a functional system but Apple is a company that pours a lot of resources on the design aspect of their products and how everything works together and two different input methods go against that.
That care to design above all is the reason a lot of people love their products (and why another bunch hates them). For good or for bad it's their way to do things.
They are pretty bad. I think my old lumia 930 was the same width and height as the iPhone 6, but it has a 5" display vs the 4.7" of the iPhone. Apple should either make the iPhone 6 smaller or put a larger screen in the same size chassis.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
This. There is a reason why specialized stylus didnt caught on, and is not a feature in their flagship galaxy s phones either. And why most if not all flagship phones/tablets from other android companies doesnt offer stylus either.
Its a niche feature. Saying no innovation due to no specialized stylus is a desperation point.
I still remember people like you who talked about Sony stock this way in the mid 90s.
The IT consumer market is volatile and partly trend-based. It's risky.
While Apple do take a different approach to say Samsung who throw a million half baked features against a wall and see which stick, Apple tend to wait on things and generally release them with high levels of polish, but I think you're getting carried away a little with them being the "best".
What Apple do have that's the "best" is their customer service, they're on Amazons level (and I would put Amazon on god tier), and Apple have got something magical about their products in terms of making that desire, their products just feel slick, I have a lot of Samsung products as I prefer the flexibility Android gives but no samsung device has ever gave the same feeling as apple products, even the s6 edge that I have currently feels nice, but there's something about the iphone 6 plus that I can't quite put my finger on.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
Car play is going to be the next big thing.
It will. E in literally every car you can buy I bet.
It will. E in literally every car you can buy I bet.
Ehhh, I wouldn't say always. Apple and Steve Jobs both have a lot of failed products in their histories.
Apple is for sure amazing at creating a very well designed product with a tightly focused use case. What Apple does not do well is react to changing market conditions. The internet has ushered in era of openness, transparency, curation, and customization that Apple actively fights against. Look how long it took them to give iPhone users two size options. iOs is still extremely locked down in terms of functionality as compared to Android. Apple prioritizes user experience over user freedom and we shall see if that philosophy pays off in the long run as the general population becomes more and more tech savvy.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Really, because i see many people throwing shit at samsung for removing sd card and removable battery now.
And many other android flagship devices are moving to that too.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
I've always found those people to be stupid because Google since Gingerbread removed the ability to download apps onto SD cards. They were only used for pictures, music and video.
In 2013-15 cloud storage exist everywhere in which you do not need an SD Card to do any of that. I store my pictures, videos and music on 3 different sites just to make sure they are there. I think for 100gb with Google, I only pay 1.99 a month. that better than a $29 SD card.
And the removable battery fuckery is annoying. Especially for Samsung fans seeing as mophie literally has a line up for all Galaxy phones that doea gives you extra battery life if needed. They don't have it for any other phone but iPhone and Galaxy.
These things have all been gutted from Android phones since the Nexus 4 and for people to still be making a big deal out of it is so ridiculous at this point.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I blame this on the tech pundits that don't just expect but demand a revolution each year. It's an unrealistic expectation.
It'll happen when it happens.
It'll happen when it happens.
There's a widening gap between Apple's rhetoric and their actual delivery. People are noticing. Everything is still presented as being "revolutionary" or "the most incredible product we've ever created" or "best in class" when it's becoming obvious that Apple is often playing catch up or delaying leaps forward in favor of squeezing higher margins by being less aggressive on spec bumps.
Edit: This isn't me calling Apple products B-tier or crap. This is me just pointing out that they haven't done anything to temper expectations to match their more conservative approach.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I'll imagine an android fan will goes:
"But why not both? You can have both sd card and cloud storage/internal storage. I dont need the manufacturer to offer me an expensive phone with a large internal storage. I can just buy a low end with smaller internal storage and pop in a high capacity sd card. And cloud conputing isnt literally everywhere, and not everyone has data plan. Android is all about openess and customization."
And mophie battery pack works like an external battery pack isnt it? Well yah, they have em for iphone. But that doesnt stop android fans from going
"Haha look at those iphone wall hugger tethering their phones to the power outlet. All i need to do is to swipe my battery in when my phone batt is out.
Wait what mophie battery pack? Well erm, it cost $100 for 3300 mah and my spare battery from china cost like what $5? $15?"
Moving towards transparency, openness, curation and customization? I see Apple just had a very strong Q2 sales. On the other hand Samsung still havent say anything about their s6 sales, while (latest) unofficial report suggest it is doing worse than s5 at the moment.
José Mourinho
cocknose
I bought an XPS 13 and it's really great. The nearly bezeless display is top notch. The whole machine is just well designed from top to bottom.
I pre-ordered an Apple Watch with money I randomly found in an old account figuring it would be a fun little toy that I would sell in a few months but it's far more useful than I had ever expected. I had a Pebble before, and I wish them well because they have a great product in many ways. But despite the awesome battery life I found it not really terribly useful. I pretty much just used it to check the time.
As others have pointed out I think v2 will be a big deal especially if they can get the battery improved by even just 3-4 more hours.
As others have pointed out I think v2 will be a big deal especially if they can get the battery improved by even just 3-4 more hours.
Ah, you're right. Looks a little more reasonableLooks like a photoshop of a Nexus 5.
this might be the actual Nubia Z9
Chittagong
Gold Member
It had less to do with thinking Apple would not do well and more with the fact that they are so big that the stock doesn't offer much upside anymore. Apple's market cap now is about $750B. For them to become a $1T company (which most think is the realistic positive scenario) provides only 30% upside ever. And even with that it's hard to imagine what they would have to launch to add $250B in their market cap.
Compare to Tesla. They are a relatively small company with a $30B market cap. If I had to bet whether its more likely that Apple becomes a $2.2T company, or Tesla becomes a $90B company - both cases giving 3x return - the latter feels much more plausible for me.
And that's the main innovation problem for Apple. Almost any product they can think of can't add a trillion to their market cap. That's why they have to choose cars over TVs.
I agree that Apple has potential to be a solid dividend machine though.
The vast (and I mean VAST) majority of Apple's revenue is from selling phones.
If the phones stop selling, they're in serious trouble.
Jzero
Member
Hard to explain until you see it in person. It looks and feels like a proper jewelry piece, like a good, expensive 'real' watch. Not like a geeky electronic toy like every single Android (or Pebble) watch does at the moment.
Behold "geeky electronic toy" versus "a proper jewelry piece, like a good, expensive 'real' watch"
I've seen it in person and played with it for a good amount of time. I can never take that argument seriously. Rectangle watches are ugg.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Case in point:
Eight years late, managed to create a new market that Microsoft couldn't.
I love that they do this. They take existing technology that feels fringe and unfriendly and package it beautifully while presenting it in a way that captures the masses' imagination.
My only huge issue here is that in the process of doing so, they (for whatever reason) manage to also scrap basic, features. WTF, why can't I use USB-stick or an SD card?
If the phones stop selling they really are screwed, I didn't realise how much they rely on phone sales. It only takes a new trend to arrive and if it's not them, they're in trouble.
They could become the next blackberry if people stop buying iPhones.
Part of the reason that Apple invests so much in customer service is that so people keep coming back and users of their products will see them as dependable. No other manufacturer will give you that. Therefore, you essentially lock in customers and keep them. A phone is always going to be something that people will need and there are tons of benefits so maintaining a good phone that is very useful to a person (contacting people, taking quick good quality pictures, checking e-mail, and having access to a good GPS when traveling. Google Now just takes what we have in smart phones and pushes it to a whole other level. So in the case of Apple, I think they'll be fine for a while even if growth does slow down. If anything, instead of buying tablets, people might just look towards getting a compromise device like the iPhone 6 Plus because it's small enough to be used a phone, but big enough size satisfy someones content consumption.
In Apple's recent history they don't actually release a 'revolutionary' new product very often.
It was several years between the iMac and the iPod, and 6 years between the iPod and the iPhone.
Between the iPhone and iPad it was only 3 years, but then they were not very different products from a technical or interface perspective.
Most of the time Apple releases iterative updates of last year's product, it's how they have always operated and it is why their products become so good.
We still see smaller innovations from Apple all the time. Like Touch ID in 2013, or the taptic feedback on the Apple Watch.
It was several years between the iMac and the iPod, and 6 years between the iPod and the iPhone.
Between the iPhone and iPad it was only 3 years, but then they were not very different products from a technical or interface perspective.
Most of the time Apple releases iterative updates of last year's product, it's how they have always operated and it is why their products become so good.
We still see smaller innovations from Apple all the time. Like Touch ID in 2013, or the taptic feedback on the Apple Watch.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Because no SD card is the future. Why do you think recent Android flagship phones are phrasing it out?
I would say its bad for them but serious trouble is far from it. If they spun out their products as their own companies they would still be some of the largest companies on earth,
Hell, Apple makes more from hardware accessories alone than most fastfood companies makes at all.
The iPad is larger than Facebook, Yahoo, LinkedIn, Twitter, Groupon and Tesla combined.
Because edges are completely innovative! Meanwhile iPhone 6 brings secure enclaves that Android hasn't implemented in a phone yet - let alone they are tripping over themselves catching up with the other iOS security features. Yea VR makes a lot of sense on a mobile device, meanwhile Apple is bringing new interactivity with force touch and people in this thread are whining for a stylus.
In all of those examples, the Apple user experience trumps Android regardless of specs. VR is the only one that's negligible but like I said, it's like Android-based companies are throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Which should be insulting to consumers as they should be caring about what the consumer wants and especially what the consumer doesn't know they want yet (security features). iOS will always trump Android on security.
Pops Maellard
Member
And circular watch screens are horribly annoying to use with the overwhelmingly square interfaces the world has been using for the past few decades.
You really don't see how Samsung has been aping Apple?The real innovation has been with Android for about 3 years now.
Samsung 2012:
Iphone 2014:
(and still no stylus)
Sony 2012:
Apple 2015:
Samsung 2015:
So around 2017 Apple will be getting VR goggles, rounded edges on their phones (ironic), and still will be running a closed OS.
The commercials are funny, because they're true.
Yeah they are, and it is very anti-consumer. For one thing they assume users are too dumb to manage media in two different locations (Duarte flat out said it) so they just get rid of it rather than build in an elegant solution to treat the storage as one large space. It could be completely transparent to the user. Secondly, they want to upsell you on the storage.
sooperkool
Member
What security enclaves?
So part of NFC is that the transmitters have access to specific memory that only the NFC controller touches. This has been contentious on Android because carriers have actively seeked to block phones that carry this capability because of dispute over who "owns" or is allowed to have access to it. This was mostly to kill mobile payment initiatives. If Google owns it, then only Google can be the secure payment provider, if carriers owned it only carriers can be the secure payment provider. As a result Google added some APIs for host-card emulation via software which really isn't secure in the same way as malicious programs with privileged access could still potentially access stored values.
However, I don't believe this is the case anymore. Most carriers have adopted Google as their payment platform and so I think phones are allowed to have them again, though I'm not sure what the landscape looks like between Google and OEMs regarding ownership of the secure element. Point is it's really old hat but the center of a political dispute, the innovation being Apple can strong arm carriers.
CloudyTuba
Member
Apple getting boring was the result I expected from his passing.
Steve was enough of an asshole that if he had an idea, he made his employees make it happen whether it was practical or not. Wont do it? Fuck you, get out. Who's next?
He was a harsh dictator which led to many angry people and also many leaps forward in design.
I think their new watch would have been better, more useful and more popular if they still had Jobs around to make unreasonable demands about it.
sooperkool
Member
Ahh ok, I never quite knew what it was but I knew they spearheaded some significant changes.
eyeball_kid
Member
There's plenty of asshole CEOs out there. Being a jerk to your employees absolutely does not translate into great/innovative products. Usually the opposite.
What made Steve special was his ability to distill technology into products that hide complexity from users in order to create an elegant experience. He had a great ability to think strategically and see where the industry was headed in the long-term. And he also had great design sense and made his employees sweat the details. Acting irate was more of a character flaw than a benefit, but his charisma made people loyal to him, despite those flaws. People wanted to work for him because they knew he wanted to do big things and do them the "right" way. I think Elon Musk is now attracting talent for the same reason.
Apple is still very much in the game though. Tim has shown himself to be a capable CEO, with different strengths than Steve. I don't know if the sum of him and his executive team can equal what Steve brought to the table, but I haven't sold my stock yet. I think the biggest problem for Apple is not releasing interesting or game-changing products, but in maintaining those "sweat the details" quality levels as they expand the number of products they offer at the same aggressive timelines.
Autumn Wind
Member
Tim Cook can only do so much but if I recall correctly didn't Steve push for Intel to increase its graphical power in its chips? I somehow think Cook wouldn't rake Intel over the coals but then again Tim is trying to change things socially so he may end up making a bigger impact that way.
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