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It feels like Apple isn't changing the game anymore.

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You've got to remember that Beats did have a music streaming service before Apple bought them. And it wasn't winning even with all those successful businessmen behind it.

They bought influence, not business capacity.
They already have/had the plan worked up they only needed someone to convince the music labels to approve of their pricing and strategies.
 
They only changed the game maybe 3 times. iPod, iPhone and Macbook Air. Thats it. they haven't done anything innovative since.
 
I'd still rather use an iPhone and Mac over anything on the market right now but their watch is a pretty disappointing product. I remember when everyone said Apple would be the only company to do smartwatches right but what they created was a pretty crap offering. It's ugly as hell with Samsung-esque features like the giant emoticons. Also, taking voice calls and looking at your photos through your watch? These are your use cases? smh.

Here's the truth, smartwatches as a concept are completely silly and unnecessary. There's nothing they can, or will ever, do that can't be done on a smartphone. They only exist for convenience sake.
 
You can't have innovation every single year, and trying to force it just for the sake of being edgy hurts the product, especially if the technology is not there yet, just like what happens with Nintendo.
 
Somehow people assume Apple have this responsibility to invoke paradigm change everytime they introduce a new product.
They don't.
 
They only changed the game maybe 3 times. iPod, iPhone and Macbook Air. Thats it. they haven't done anything innovative since.

I mean if you ignore classic apple, then sure. Either way true innovations only come around every 5-10 years, and most of us don't know it until we look at it with hind site. Maybe the apple watch will be remembered as innovative 5 years from now, it's just too early to tell.
 
Here's the truth, smartwatches as a concept are completely silly and unnecessary. There's nothing they can, or will ever, do that can't be done on a smartphone. They only exist for convenience sake.

Convenience is silly and unnecessary, huh?

Who knew?
 
They only changed the game maybe 3 times. iPod, iPhone and Macbook Air. Thats it. they haven't done anything innovative since.

Ipad?

As far as I'm concerned Apple were the ones that started the tablet boom, despite at the time many people criticizing it and not seeing the value in owning a tablet. If I recall "oversized Iphone" was often used as a criticism.

Ironically I initially couldn't see the value in it, but I use my Ipad more than my laptop, it's just easier to browse websites, check emails, youtube videos etc
 
Apple watch is a fisher price toy compared to some the android watch stuff.
And apple pay isn't anything innovative and new.
I'm not sure what Android watch stuff you're thinking of, but I have probably missed it.
Apple pay is innovative insofar that it works the way this kind of thing should. Google Wallet was terrible in comparison.

Ever use a moto 360 or the new LG Urbane? That's pretty much Bs and I've tried on most of the current smart watches.
I've used Moto 360 and while I thought it looked cool in photos and videos I found it somewhat comical looking in real life. I haven't seen Urbane in real life yet, I don't think it's sold anywhere in NA yet.

Behold "geeky electronic toy" versus "a proper jewelry piece, like a good, expensive 'real' watch"
Again, unless I see/touch these things in real life, I'm staying away from commenting either way. Photos are hugely deceiving in terms of assessing the feel of the build quality of a product like that.
 
Convenience is silly and unnecessary, huh?

Who knew?

There are impediments they can't get around. If you're in a crowded area and texting, you don't want to have to constantly speak to it to relay your messages...at least I wouldn't. Some of the things about them are cool, most others seem superfluous to me if you already have a decent phone.
 
I mean if you ignore classic apple, then sure. Either way true innovations only come around every 5-10 years, and most of us don't know it until we look at it with hind site. Maybe the apple watch will be remembered as innovative 5 years from now, it's just too early to tell.

Why would it be? It's been beaten to market by over a dozen other products (and we're not talking by weeks here...)
 
iPod, iTunes, iPhone, iPad... Not really a fan of every single one of these products, but I can't deny that all of them changed the rules and had a huge impact on the market. Even as a mostly PC and Android user, it was fun to see what heavy-weight behemoth Apple was gonna unleash next.

Lately though, it feels like it's all just been merely adequate new versions of the phones and tablets. Then their's the whole smart-watch thing which doesn't seem to be taking off like the previous offerings.

I know some people say it's not gonna happen without Steve Jobs, but maybe they'll still manage to do something big with TVs?

Their refusal to integrate their mobile platform with their desktop platform will end up biting them in the butt IMO.


Somehow people assume Apple have this responsibility to invoke paradigm change everytime they introduce a new product.
They don't.

They're in an industry that requires it.
 
The new "macbook" has some pretty cool technologies going on inside of it, Sheeted batteries, taptic trackpad, etc. Ive owned apple products for a decent amount of time now, and I just love the ecosystem that the company has regarding product, services, and support. Ive owned plenty of Windows based laptops, and they've all sucked in my own experience. Ive never had any major issues with my macs/iphones/ipads , and If I did I have onsite 1st party support to go to when I do. At this point its about the user experience and simplicity of the hardware that they make, not about stuffing a Skynet bot into a Macbook air for best specs. If you need/want a "beastly" computer, just build a PC obviously.

I had a friend once who used to talk shit about Macs and how over priced they are( I do agree their profit margins are crazy high), but he always had trouble with the new Dells, HPs, Sonys. ect that he bought. He finally caved and bought a macbook pro, and has not once bitched or complained about the machine because it just fucking works..Apple is far from a perfect company, but to sit there and deny that they make great consumer products, Is total bullshit IMO.
 
Why would it be? It's been beaten to market by over a dozen other products (and we're not talking by weeks here...)

History is told by the victors, the general market had no idea other smart watches existed before the apple watch.

We may see tech blogs list the most innovative devices and say "the apple watch wasn't first, but it got it right." Revisionist history can be strong.
 
Reviews highly disagree with this statement except the iPhone and even that sometimes is held back because the first gens are always testing the water.

Google Wallet works just as fine as Apple Pay. I think people though the security feature of it made it somewhat better than Google wallet but it literally works the same, there is no different. You tap, slap, whatever you want with the same devices.

Google puts a ton of resources into the software to stand out. Not to be just a companion device and that's what some of Apple products are doing, beside their whole continuity which isn't a new concept as a whole.

The only thing that Google faces is that since they provide the software but it's up to other makers to make due of it and sometimes they don't it does come off looking bad, as if Google themselves did nothing to help the platform when they have.

If you take a look at the 360 which by far is the only Android Smartwatch that everyone knows besides the Galaxy watch and the LG, it is the best one, with the best functionality and design. It was the first watch to actually look like an actual watch.

I don't need to list the things that the Moto watch already does better than the iWatch as both 1st gen models and the improvements that has been made to it in since then.

Apple will probably do the same thing, with it's 2nd gen. And, to me, that's not game changer. It's just playing the game and doing what they can with it. Apple does what it does best, I just fail to see how that translate into what they do, being the absolute standard when are not the one's creating it and taking it to the next level. I think they have done things to other products which has definitely been trusted upon to sometimes set the new standard, but I don't think they have been the one game changing it. These days, it's just apple being last and making it look and feel better, but not necessarily "better".

Reviews of what? Every Apple product is well reviewed and, while the iWatch wasn't a slam dunk it didn't fair poorly against it's competition.

Google Pay exists, and existed before Apple Pay but Apple Pay came out of the gate with more support than Google Pay has had since inception. It's a good example of something Apple does well and Google can't.

Apple created Apple Pay and integrated it with it's devices, stores and banks all at the same time. They created an extremely easy to use system. Google, because it's only a software company, could only integrate it with Nexus at first and rolled it out slowly to the other devices and, after all this time, Google Pay isn't a standard with every new Android while in Apple's case you can bet that three years from now they'll have that in every iPhone and iWatch.

Being first means very little if you can't do it well. And that's something that Apple gets. Google does a lot of new things all the time but they don't stick like Apple's does for a lot of reasons. Apple takes the best stuff. improves on it and gives their spin on things.

And, I mean, I love Google's ecosystem but the way Android is set up and the way Google presents and supports things clearly makes it harder for them to shake things up or introduce new concepts like Apple does.

Being first to market and being a game changer are two different things I guess that's my main point. And Apple sometimes do takes way too much time to change some things about their products, I can agree with that.
 
My answer would be: top-shelf design, and the intangible way it makes my life more pleasant.

I don't love Apple. I love any company that has obsessive, world class designers, who get into a room and debate every little design detail until the product is refined into a perfect object. I like that in furniture, in architecture, in automobiles... Only in computers does it tend to be assumed that the design-focused option is some kind of marketing magic trick. I wish there were more design-obsessed companies in this space so people would understand that the appeal really is beyond Apple... They're just the only ones doing it in this space from top to bottom.

Blind to that? Or don't care about it enough to pay for it? By all means choose a more affordable option. Just don't say this is an emperor with no clothes, because believe me, for us design geeks, there is a big difference.

They build nice stuff, but their software is by no means perfect. itunes is still horrible, and personally I think windows 7 caught up well enough to OSX to be a reasonable alternative that anyone can live with. And the mobile OSes all have their particular foibles. iOS locks more things down but that means if it doesn't suit your taste, then tough. You do things how Apple want you to do them, or not at all. For me I find the app-app-app model a little simplistic and I wish they'd try some new ideas for glancable information, or even widgets, rather than a home screen just full of app icons.

I could justify the cost of a MBA or MBP just on the trackpad and battery life - both are godly.
 
When is Apple first to anything? Complaints about Apple's innovation without Steve Jobs are baffling to me. They're doing what they've always done. My main complaint is the software is buggier than usual.
 
Okay, if you're a design geek, fine. But to most of us, one rectangle is as good as another rectangle. Of course I wouldn't pay more for a prettier rectangle.

As for that intangible thing you're talking about, are you sure it isn't just pride or ego? Being part of an elitist group or something like that?

It obviously isn't the case of "most of us". You're projecting your (needlessly negative) opinion on Apple onto everyone else. I would say "design geeks" isn't even the right word. It's more that there are a lot of people who are more 'sensitive' to those little design decisions and directions that Apple takes. That ultimately comes to make a better, more user friendly experience.

Personally, as someone who owns both Android and Apple devices, I'm not sure how anyone could use any flavor of Android and still say it's better than iOS. But I don't think it's because they're stupid or prideful or some other negative descriptor.
 
There will always be a huge flagship market though. What you're describing is what happened in the PC market where a $300 laptop can aervace most people's needs, but apple still sits on it's thrown with it's $1200 netbooks that are weaker than the afformentioned $300 laptops. Like it or not, apple is a name brand electronics maker. Like Gucci is for fashion apple is for tech, and until someone challenges that they'll be sitting pretty.

No, there won't. Timedog is correct.. we are only a few years from having $100 phones that do everything a flagship of today does. There's not a lot of innovation left at all in the realm of cell phones. Quality chips are already cheap, cameras are cheap.. the biggest hurdle is battery life. Once that's solved.. we'll upgrade phones just to replace a worn out one.. why do a contract on a $700 flagship when you can score a $100 phone that does basically everything.

The flagship market is doomed.
 
The opposite question would be more pertinent as Android Wear watches do more than Apple Watch.
Apple Watch is simply the popular thing to have a this point in time.

If by popular you mean the single iWatch owner in my office has taken a good few weeks of constant abuse from the other staff here, for buying/wearing one...
 
The money game sure, but how does the average user benefit from Tim Cook and Dr dre being billionaires exactly.

The same way the average user benefits from Steve Jobs being a billionaire? As in you don't. You benefit from their products and only you the consumer can determine that.
 
It's ease of use for me, and I've gotten used to its perks. My old macbook is 6 years old and works/looks perfectly as it did when it was new. The zero maintenance, instant file search (and I mean INSTANT), simple OS and a bunch of other small things added up for me. There's plenty of functions that macs have that aren't unique to them, but the execution is always refined enough to make them matter to me. I don't experience slow down despite leaving it on for months and months at a time (I'm an electronics abuser), but there's zero sign of fatigue. I could probably count the number of times I rebooted the system with two hands. I've been doing that with three generations of macbooks (2007, 2010, 2014) and they've all held up. I would greatly disagree that people are paying premium for the same experience + good marketing.

For some background I have a tower PC for games/video editing, and my macbook for everyday/portable use. Spent about the same amount of money on each, but they were both worth it. The macbook and ipod are the only apple products I've ever owned, so the "ecosystem" hasn't really been a big factor in my experience.
 
History is told by the victors, the general market had no idea other smart watches existed before the apple watch.

We may see tech blogs list the most innovative devices and say "the apple watch wasn't first, but it got it right." Revisionist history can be strong.

Yeah if anything history has taught us NOT to linger on the opinion of the "general market" (whatever that is supposed to be). In time the fervor dies down and it's a lot easier to see through the BS and vested interests.

The Apple watch might have the greatest sales in the world. It's irrelevant to the fact that it never has been and never will be an innovative product (not including some later model which does something batshit crazy awesome)
 
No, there won't. Timedog is correct.. we are only a few years from having $100 phones that do everything a flagship of today does. There's not a lot of innovation left at all in the realm of cell phones. Quality chips are already cheap, cameras are cheap.. the biggest hurdle is battery life. Once that's solved.. we'll upgrade phones just to replace a worn out one.. why do a contract on a $700 flagship when you can score a $100 phone that does basically everything.

The flagship market is doomed.

So by that logic no one would by a macbook air. Low end computers work just as well. Also even after batteries get improved the performance race will still keep going just like it has for computers. Flagships aren't going anywhere, like it or not, because they make the companies a ton of money because their margins are huge.

Also what makes you think someone will suddenly go with a low end smartphone just because it's cheaper than the iPhone? The iPhone is the smartphone to own in social circles and it's increasing popularity attests to that.

Convenience is silly and unnecessary, huh?

Who knew?

It is at this level. You have to have your smartphone with you at all times with these watches. the main function of them is to push notifications to you without taking your phone out of your pocket. I mean is picking up your phone that big of a hassle?
 
Apple pay. Also, after seeing the watch in person, I'd say it's a game changer too. It left by far better impression on me than any of the Android watches.

Please explain this...it's basically the same thing.

Also smart watches will not be game changers forms very long time. Even the Apple watch is a half baked attempt. Also not everyone wears a watch and just being a cool gadget won't change that ever.
 
The iPhone 6 will probably be my last flagship phone. Now that all the new plans are no longer subsidizing these phones I'm just going for one of the quality cheap ones. Even upgrading a $200 phone every year is still cheaper than a flagship.
 
I swear I just found out the watch came out thanks to this thread

For real, people in this thread are saying it's some sold out hot shiznit, but I don't see any hype around Apple Watch at all in my office, which is a first for any Apple product launch.
 
I could justify the cost of a MBA or MBP just on the trackpad and battery life - both are godly.

Windows guy here.

I was asked what laptop I wanted for work. Mostly document/config writing, remoting into devices, and in the field working on stuff, consoling into stuff, etc.

I went with a MacBook 100% because of the track pad.
 
Frankly, I feel their game-changing nature comes entirely from market presence at this point. The iPod & iPhone were genuinely revolutionary products, which pushed their respective markets forward. However, I'm hard pressed to say the same about the iPad, Apple Watch, or many of their smaller products. Yet it's undeniable - whenever they enter a product sector, that sector is legitimized. Tablets weren't a proven force until the iPad. MP3s weren't mainstream until the iPod & iTunes. The iPhone is the sole reason smartphones became a cultural standard in the US.

Yet, I don't see the same with the Watch. I doubt they'd be able to do much in the HDTV market.

Steve Jobs was a marketing and design god. Apple is a company whose strength is in marketing and product design. The spark might be dead.

The iPad was game-changing without a doubt.
 
Please explain this...it's basically the same thing.

Also smart watches will not be game changers forms very long time. Even the Apple watch is a half baked attempt. Also not everyone wears a watch and just being a cool gadget won't change that ever.
Yes, I've probably overstated Apple watch as a game changer. It has only really changed my own mind as I was never impressed by any of the smartwatches I've seen so far, and I was very impressed with apple watch, especially in terms of build quality. I don't know how to best explain it. Yes, it's functionally the same as various other smartwatches but it's better built. The same way Rolex is functionally the same as something that's fifty times cheaper, but when you hold them side by side, the attention to detail and the build quality and craftsmanship is simply not the same.
 
I mean, for the longest time Apple wasn't in "beast mode". They hit gold with these touch devices, but they can't keep doing it indefinitely, they're basically back to form (except making a ton of money).
 
It all started to go downhill once Steve Jobs died.

I can't help but feel he'd go fucking mental if he saw the state of their products/store, although maybe I'm wrong. We'll never know!

Slightly off-topic, but the way Apple treated my brother in the Apple Store regarding his iMac was absolutely disgusting. It's something I doubt would've happened when Jobs was alive, even if he was ruthless. He would've wanted to have kept customers happy, not tarnish their opinions of the brand forever.

It is very easy to find customer complaints about Apple store employees when Jobs was running the company. It's a retail store, there is going to be customer complaints and bad employees no matter who is running the show.
 
When they released the iPad, only to release the more complete iPad 2 a relatively short time after, they really lost a lot of personal favor with me.

Wasn't the Apple Watch one of Jobs' last projects?

I love how people keep repeating that. Dude died, company is doomed, company doesn't do anything good anymore - so bloody predictable.

Anyway, I'm not even an Apple fan. I'm typing this on a windows phone. But to be honest, Apple's never been as innovative as people believe them to be.


I don't think I'd call them innovative either, but they certainly mastered a lot of the stuff that they were pushing, as they did with the original iPod, despite it not being the first iteration of that type of portable music device. Ask the layperson though, and they'll probably tell you that the iPod was the first device of its kind. And it isn't as though Apple invented the smart phone, but they made it very user-friendly and streamlined. User-friendly and streamlined are the keywords here.

The remarkable gift that Jobs had though was being able to convince you that you needed their newest products, and that Apple products would always meet your needs without fail. I'm not sure they have that sort of company face anymore, but it doesn't mean they're not going to continue to be successful either.
 
I was an Apple fan since the late 90s and the only thing that really made me ever get off that train from time to time was an inability to afford their products. That said, while I'm still poor I still buy apple wherever possible and still find them to be worth the money whenever I do. I prefer iOS to Android, OSX to Windows, their physical design to almost everyone else's (except with the iPhone, where I feel they've been overtaken in design). As an amateur photographer, the Retina screen on their laptops is my favourite thing they've ever done and worth every penny I paid of the ridiculous price.

However I can't disagree with the premise of the OP. Back in the 2000s, it felt like Apple was continuously coming out with an amazing new product (iPod, MacBook, iPhone, iPad, MacBook Air) or creating major, major improvements to existing ones every year. I mean, when the iPod came out every revision was significantly better.

Now, though... what? I've never seen a reaction to an Apple product as muted with my peers as the Apple Watch. Few people know about it, nobody cares. The revisions to their products are getting less and less meaningful year by year. In some cases, like the iPhone 6, they're having to actively ape features of their competitors (the big screens) in ways they said they didn't want to. You can use an Apple product across any of their lines from three years ago and not feel like you're losing out by not upgrading in a way that was impossible back in the early-mid 2000s.

I realise that the pace of tech advancement slows, but that's the point. It's not as exciting anymore. Stuff like ApplePay may be cool long-term, but it will never excite people like seeing a new shiny product.
 
All of their innovations happened during the age of the mini-computer. Essentially Apple brought to market the most elegant UI and design of each new mini-computer market. IPod, iPhone, iPad.

We have reached a point of diminishing returns with advancements. We now can do an immense amount of computing in very small form factors.

It's going to be much more difficult to "change industries" as quickly as Apple was able to.

Look at smart watches; huge chunks of people just don't care, hardly anyone is wowed by them.

Advancements continue to happen with speech recognition, motion / gesture controls / things like VR... But none of it is as approachable as the pocket computers we've all been spoiled with for years now.

And as people are ever-more connected to information about upcoming products everything sort of ironically feels like it's moving more slowly. We get so many articles about every upcoming tech, more companies competing, pie in the sky kickstrters, etc. that it removes some of the hype and excitement.

We are on the verge of having a lot of VR devices available to us for instance; but we've been reading about them and perhaps even experiencingg them for what feels like ages.

The iPod had competitors with bigger hard drives and whatnot beat the device to market, but hardly anyone knew they existed until the iPod phenomenon happened.

I feel like even if Apple brings to market the "perceived as best" version of any new tech it just won't have the cultural impact of the "pre everyone being a gadget nerd" era.
 
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Apple hasn't been changing the game lately because they're looking for a product category where the game needs to be changed.
 
I'm not a huge Apple fan but to be fair how many times can you expect one company to release a revolutionary product that culturally impacts so much of society? Smartphones alone have changed everything.
 
there's nothing they really need to innovate in electronics wise, at the moment. Smart phones are still so new, relatively speaking. I really wonder how these companies will compete with each other in the future...just with spec bumps?
 
After seeing the almost borderless display of the Nubia z9 I have to say that this felt like something I would have expected to be revealed by Apple.

nubia-z9-raqwe.com-01agp7h.jpg


I wonder what they'll think off for the next iPhone, but right now it feels like they're stagnating.
 
They're on top of the game. They don't need to change it right now. They've been consistently experiencing massive growth YoY. In fact in the years since Jobs passed, their growth has started to increase.
 
After seeing the almost borderless display of the Nubia z9 I have to say that this felt like something I would have expected to be revealed by Apple.

I wonder what they'll think off for the next iPhone, but right now it feels like they're stagnating.

Bezels have been one of the biggest complaints against Apple lately. there's are terrible compared to others in the market and that's why the 6 and 6 plus are so big compared to android phones of similar screen size.
 
No, there won't. Timedog is correct.. we are only a few years from having $100 phones that do everything a flagship of today does. There's not a lot of innovation left at all in the realm of cell phones. Quality chips are already cheap, cameras are cheap.. the biggest hurdle is battery life. Once that's solved.. we'll upgrade phones just to replace a worn out one.. why do a contract on a $700 flagship when you can score a $100 phone that does basically everything.

The flagship market is doomed.


I see a lot of people post stuff like this, and I think it's because they look at what their phone currently does and think it's doing it great, but you're missing out on what new stuff your phone could be doing with just a little more power, faster internet / cellular, etc.

Some (admittedly far) futurist ideas off the top of my head:

– Enough RAM to run every major app on your phone simultaneously. Imagine a smart phone with 64 or hell 128gb of RAM. Everything loads instantly, apps are shown running in real time even in the multitasking preview.

– Fast enough cellular connection to make use of cloud processing. Sure MS's promise of cloud performance on Xbox One was a joke for today, but that future is coming eventually. PS Now works pretty well already, imagine if you could have the power of a Playstation 6 streaming to you lag free over your cellular connection? It'd be enough for photorealistic games or even more full featured apps like Photoshop or Final Cut.

– More dumb screens than just your watch. Right now third party apps on the Apple Watch are driven by the phone, just sending data to the watch which is mostly just acting as a dumb screen and input device. Imagine if your phone was powerful enough to replace your desktop computer, and all you needed was your phone to do all of your desktop processing. Here's the scenario:

You sit down in front of a keyboard sitting in front of a cheap large 4k panel, due to proximity your phone knows where you're positioned and starts up a desktop client that is beamed to the screen wirelessly. Walk away, get on the bus and pull out a large screen dumb tablet (with basically no processor or RAM in it, just the bare essentials) and your phone does all the processing and just shoots video to that. Sit down on the couch and pick up a console controller and your phone starts wirelessly streaming games to your TV.

You'd basically never need to upgrade your TV or tablet or desktop monitor, because they'd just need to be basic high quality displays. Keep upgrading your phone every year and that power drives everything.



This is all some pretty future minded ideas of course, and things like having 64gb of RAM in a phone will be expensive, but that's exactly why there will always be a flagship phone market, for devices that can do way more than what you can even imagine right now.

Low end phones will catch up to what the flagships offer now, and the flagships will be doing even crazier stuff.
 
Apple did change the game. It's why they are the wealthiest company in the world. It's their game now. Why would they change it.
 
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