Dane_gerClose
Member
That's all true, I just feel fighting to improve the community where you can goes a long way.
Edit: I'll stress again that the industry needs to do the same as a whole, not just the community.
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It seems like gaming is under seige by white supremacists
- Thread starter Steeped in a Sea of Games
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That's all true, I just feel fighting to improve the community where you can goes a long way.
Edit: I'll stress again that the industry needs to do the same as a whole, not just the community.
☝️
I'm doing my part, I'll keep doing my part, but I'm fucking well tired of watching the people who could be making real change happen sit on the sidelines.
I'd be more inclined to believe that they decided against responding to it because it represented a loud minority of their market. Do you think the average person spending money on AAA games heard of or spent much more than a passing thought to Gamergate back then? It's not the niche hobby it once was.
The Faceless Master
Member
they were always there.
they were there when people asked why voice chat was dead and we answered.
the answers were met with "i get called names too" instead of understanding,
And you know they say it takes something to happen for
they were there when people asked why voice chat was dead and we answered.
the answers were met with "i get called names too" instead of understanding,
And you know they say it takes something to happen for
Young Liar
Member
I think it's both true that there have been racists in the industry and in the communities since the beginning of gaming and that white supremacists have also gotten better at fostering this culture of hate and connecting more people who have been holding these beliefs for awhile.
It fucking sucks that we've let it get to this point with our complacency. That's why it's incredibly important to call out racism, and every other hateful belief for that matter, swiftly and uncompromisingly.
We can be more understanding of teenagers and kids and try to reach out to them to keep them from falling prey to such beliefs.
But full-grown adults who have should have the mental and emotional capacity to comprehend the evils of discriminatory behavior and ideologies? We need to put our foot down, call them out, and hold them accountable. If you fuck up, you own up to it, apologize, listen to marginalized voices, learn, and grow up. Don't make excuses. Don't deflect. Don't lash out. Don't be defensive. Don't apologize half-heartedly. Acknowledge your mistake fully. Be better.
It fucking sucks that we've let it get to this point with our complacency. That's why it's incredibly important to call out racism, and every other hateful belief for that matter, swiftly and uncompromisingly.
We can be more understanding of teenagers and kids and try to reach out to them to keep them from falling prey to such beliefs.
But full-grown adults who have should have the mental and emotional capacity to comprehend the evils of discriminatory behavior and ideologies? We need to put our foot down, call them out, and hold them accountable. If you fuck up, you own up to it, apologize, listen to marginalized voices, learn, and grow up. Don't make excuses. Don't deflect. Don't lash out. Don't be defensive. Don't apologize half-heartedly. Acknowledge your mistake fully. Be better.
Double Donut
Member
Jesus man, go for my throat why don't you.
They aren't infiltrating anything. They've always been here and the industry has fostered an environment where it rarely challenged the notion that they mattered most. There was never any shortage of people calling each other racial, sexist, or homophobic slurs in online games, whereas people fighting against that stuff were promptly harassed and dismissed or were encouraged to keep their mouths shut.
They're just getting louder now because they are feeling threatened by an industry and a community that is more actively calling out their bullshit, not to mention a political environment that has more or less validated their attitudes.
They're just getting louder now because they are feeling threatened by an industry and a community that is more actively calling out their bullshit, not to mention a political environment that has more or less validated their attitudes.
YURP.
The Steve Bannon quotes outlining his time managing gold farming, manipulating angry gamers from the WOW space, galvanizing them into action and essentially making them work for him in the shadows seems like it's some sort of insane fiction....but it happened. Hell, its likely still happening knowing how many thumbs Breitbart has in as many pies.
The thing, for the longest time, that no one wanted to talk about until it was too late is that it was always this way. It's why online gaming is super toxic and can't be fixed. It's why women start steering away from gaming around the time get to middle school. It's why the average stream is filled with sexist/racist/homophobic on an almost constant basis. It's why my aunt comes to me and asks if I have a problem with women because she read about the gamergate stuff happening in the paper.
The gaming community might be the most toxic society we've ever seen in modern history.
That side of the gaming community has been there since I started playing online years ago. Racism and sexism has been common in virtually every game I've played. Hell just a few months ago I tried joining a guild in WoW and within minutes they were dropping n bombs and laughing. I'm not sure it's under siege so much as a significant portion of gamers just are that way. We can help by calling it out but it's up to the companies that can see what's said in chat and almost always do nothing about it.
Gotdatmoney
Member
What has EA, Ubi, Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony, Activsion or Take Two done to stamp out this bullshit? Until they do something I am not wasting my time. Mute everyone. Dissociate from the hobby in public. Someone needs to openly call them out because they will take all our money but them wash their hands of any responsibility. Clearly the community cant handle this themselves so let them take a shot.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
One of my earliest memories playing online, I was demonstrating online play to my little cousin on Virtua Tennis or Top Spin tennis, can't remember, and played the lone Black tennis player. First match online the guy yells out "SOMEONE'S PLAYING THE NIGGER! Oh Look at the little nigger!" and literally every point they made they would yell out something like "Boom! Nigger!" or when they lose it was "Nigger you suck!" I'mma lynch you". It was relentless and so weird and frankly embarrassing to be trying to demonstrate to someone that they could play online, and to this day I rarely ever voicechat or send messages.
In talking to my white gamerfriends they always claimed they rarely or never see the word online but just playing any MMO or MOBA it's thrown around casually and often, 'nigga' or 'nigger'. It makes me wonder wtf kind of games they've been playing online. Even when filters were introduced in games like L4D or Friday the 13th, you get people breaking up nigger like "Ni//gg//er" or something going out of their way to type it. It's the strangest phenomenon.
At this point it bothers me like an annoyance but I'd be beyond exhausted if I tried to rebuff every person saying it.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Sounds like trash talking to me.
NeoZeedeater
Member
Saying "gaming community" is like saying "movie watching community" or "music listening community". It's way too broad a brush to paint for millions of people, and reminds me of people blaming video game players for things like school shootings. Of course you'll find racist assholes playing video games but you will also find them in pretty much every activity. The anonymity of online chat just happens to make them more noticeable.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Yes it was trash who was talking. What is your point?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
It was discussed in every major board and site, not to mention TV and newspapers. I never believe people who say they didn't know about it but are active here or in similar spaces.
So you going to choose plain white linen then... mmm?
I've been pretty disgusted with "gaming culture" or whatever you want to call it for close to 15 years now. I would never want people associating me with the type of shit that is prevalent in (primarily with, but not limited to) what people consider AAA gaming.
Thankfully I mostly play "baby games" and "faggot games", so I don't have to deal with it too much. But the few handfuls of times that I do play a game with voice-chat, it's pretty much the worst experience I've ever encountered across any form of media.
Thankfully I mostly play "baby games" and "faggot games", so I don't have to deal with it too much. But the few handfuls of times that I do play a game with voice-chat, it's pretty much the worst experience I've ever encountered across any form of media.
Affeinvasion
Member
It's really not hard to see why games that glorify militarism and American exceptionalism (portrayed almost exclusively by white characters) are so popular.
Dane_gerClose
Member
If you missed it, I said especially indies. A studio is not defined by budget. You're really talking about publishers, which deflected my statement.
Since you seem to enjoy barking up the wrong tree, publishers need to do this. I frequently add statments about stamping this out when I make reports about other players to try and send a messege.
Despite the asshole artist(who hopefully gets swift punishment), we just saw Bungie stamp out what they could regarding the symbol issue.
So, again, I agree they need to do something. However, none of this really excuses dropping your responsibility to call out shit like this. Though you're free to do so.
Many gamers are socially maladjusted and have warped views from their upbringing. This is a hobby that offers escape from reality to a degree other media can't accomplish. It is a form of tribalism. It isn't from the past few years. People look to fill the void of their lives online that they have in reality. The hatred is a way of establishing dominance and drawing lines, much like the kids in Lord of the Flies.
But things like voice-chat are part of the experience for many games, especially in the case of online multiplayer games. I can't say I've ever gone to the movie theater or a concert and had people screaming "nigger" and "faggot" in my face with alarming consistency.
That doesn't mean that people who buy games are active in those spaces though. As loud as it might sound here and on Twitter, remember that enthusiast gaming culture is also something of a bubble.
This is a necessary read for everyone in this thread: http://www.nymgamer.com/?p=16846
And especially for you OP
And especially for you OP
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
It's been around forever. From what I remember since the early days of my Mp gaming experience. It's not going to go away regardless of whatever happens.
Gamer culture has always been centered around white men. They're so used to being catered to that any attempt at catering to other audiences is seen as hostility. They've also realized that there's no consequences for acting like racist pieces of shit, so they've been doubling down on it recently.
Unfortunately for them, gaming has been married to YouTube (Alphabet), Twitch (Amazon), eSports (affiliated with numerous family brands), etc. etc. These brands value inclusiveness.
As gamers start to turn gaming into a career, they're going to have to face the same scrutiny that any other working professional receives. You won't make money if brands don't like your message.
It's not censorship, it's basic PR. If you're an entrepreneur you should understand PR.
Unfortunately for them, gaming has been married to YouTube (Alphabet), Twitch (Amazon), eSports (affiliated with numerous family brands), etc. etc. These brands value inclusiveness.
As gamers start to turn gaming into a career, they're going to have to face the same scrutiny that any other working professional receives. You won't make money if brands don't like your message.
It's not censorship, it's basic PR. If you're an entrepreneur you should understand PR.
NeoZeedeater
Member
True, but I bet you have seen racist comments over movie and music related youtube videos.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Funny, that's how I feel too. Feels like you are outnumbered 1:10 on pretty much every board that's not GAF and perhaps a couple of others.
"it's always been this way, so it's fine" is how we got here.
Context is usually paired with that. When the context of being called a nigger is, "you beat me at this children's game!" there's a problem.
Yearsoflurking
Member
Yup, it's just that society has stop pretending that whitr supremacy doesn't exist.
Attack You
Member
GameAddict411
Member
I think you just have to accept the fact the majority of people in the US, and in the world at large are racist, or at least hold prejudices against specific social groups. The only difference is that they are just becoming more visible recently because of how much Donald Trump empowered them. He gave them a voice, and they used it. The scary part is a lot of these racists don't view themselves as such. The debate becomes about if they really racist or not when racists are outed. If you do racist things you are a racist. It's not rocket science. I think the visibility of these social issues are important to at least try to address them. I would rather want to see this out in the open over a silent large majority of people hiding and acting on it where it becomes discrimination. If nothing could be done about it, at least I know why the world is just a shitty place.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
It's the Internet. There's almost no real negative effect for saying anything. Without much backlash, there's noting from stopping people from saying those comments.
Edit:
okay I will play, what do you suggest we do? Let's hear it.
"it's always been this way, so it's fine" is how we got here.
Context is usually paired with that. When the context of being called a nigger is, "you beat me at this children's game!" there's a problem.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Eh. If microsoft or sony straight up ban you account if your caught being a shit it would disappear quick.
There are a lot of racists yes. But you forget because you are so focused on neogaf and websites like this that there are A LOT MORE gamers out there who dont visit these sites. I know people who you would never call a typical gamer who game a lot. Some of my family are gamers (yes hard games, not mobile free to play stuff) but they dont even know what a 'meme' is. Stuff like that.
Astral Dog
Member
They also infiltrated politics
PixelatedBookake
Junior Member
When you can be anonymous online (or even have the comfort of seeming like your actions have no consequences despite your name being next to your post) people who hide their racism don't have to anymore and when the president is Donald Trump more people, including video gamers (typically white, in their 20's) come out of the woodwork and reveal themselves.
Of course, as you say there are assholes in the world, and there's not much that can be done to stop that. The issue (for me at least), is how it effects the media itself. Youtube comments are something that you have to actively seek out. Watching a movie in the theater, I'm not affected by YouTube comments. Hearing people yelling out racist comments before a match of PUBG is basically a part of the game.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Its a battlefield they think they can win.
Dane_gerClose
Member
Youtube, Twitch and others have really had such a dangerous impact. Especially since so many viewers are pretty young.
Does anyone have any ideas on how to combat such a platform? Beyond calling it out, which most of us here do already.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Yep until they do, noting will change. Personally I am in support of banning for offensive language. But that will leads to a bunch of legal issues, which I don't have to dive into. But yes I do agree with you and something should be done.
Imp the Dimp
Member
I feel like the anonymity theory has been debunked thoroughly with people being no less insufferable on social media than as anons on XBL or Steam.
Like, real talk, the number one thing we need to do, enmasse, is actually call it a problem. The last two days alone are enough to see that there's a very large percentage of the community who are willing to handwave off this behavior because they, at best, don't care, and at worst, defend it because they wish to do it themselves. They are constantly saying it's not a problem because most of the shit being spouted doesn't apply to them.
Like seriously, how many times in that PWP thread are people like, "but why can't I say the word nigger? I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!!"
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
They've also infiltrated the Eating Bread and Drinking Water spaces as well. Shit is loco.