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Opinion Hardware It seems to me that Sony/Cerny chose higher quality accessories/console design over a higher Teraflops count. (A Risky Move)

sircaw

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A local pond.
Hear me out.

Ever since the reveal of the luxurious looking DualSense controller and the state-of-the-art SSD, I began to realize Sony and Cerny's approach to focus their budget on other components instead of putting every egg into the basket that is the GPU.

While 10.2 Teraflops is a respectable number to have on any console, the fact that Sony decided to opt out of the archaic Power Battle led me to believe that the PlayStation 5 will have the following:
  • A more lavish and expensive cooling system, according to Bloomberg back in early 2020.
  • A more expensive, durable, and luxurious controller which includes translucent buttons to light up accompanied with a noise-cancelling mic and possibly back triggers.
  • A state-of-the-art SSD with a world record speed of 9GB/s and an SSD meticulously designed for ease of development.
  • A console design that will incorporate sleek metallic/higher quality materials for manufacturing.
  • A controller with state-of-the-art haptic feedback and adaptive trigger systems.
  • A more powerful built-in PSU to help mitigate cooling issues further.
  • An expansive Backwards Compatibility functionality that encompasses all previous generations of their library.
  • A state-of-the-art Audio Engine that rivals the cremè of the crop in the Audio Industry.
So GAF, do you think Sony did the right choice and focus their budget on improving the quality of other components of the console instead of maximizing the theoretical Teraflops count of their GPU?
I really don't get why any off the above has been met with such disdain.
At the end of the day he is talking about what he believes the ps5 route is going down.
Most of the angry people seem to be xbox fans, i am not even sure he mentions xbox in the above thread.

Xbox guys and girls, you have a really nice machine, its awesome, its just a different route than ps5 one.
You have to stop seeing red every time someone praises or has something positive to say about a different console.

Peace
xxxx
 
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Bryank75

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None of what you say has anything to do with capability. They fixed the Issue for the One X a week ago. The PS4 Pro runs at 1600p to reach that FPS it achieves while the before and after patch of One X runs at 4k. Love how details get left out.

'Well, this new patch has now dropped the resolution to 1600p on Xbox One X, which is the same resolution that Capcom chose last year for the Resident Evil 2 remake. ' - quote from above.

So, the resolution is the same on both consoles now and both have very similar fps....
 
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Genx3

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I don’t think anyone is saying that, but you going to need more TF .. 2 TF when both are over 10 and Xbox is only 12 is not like a switch vs Xbox one.. as far at TF and visuals go. 2 TF difference after this gen say 2027, Xbox series XX vs PS6 40TF vs 42TF is even less then now.
Even 2TF's is going to give some type of improvement when doing Ray Tracing. Hell every last lick of juice would give you an improvement if you have the Bandwidth to sustain it. Ray Tracing is a resource hog.
Saying 2 TF's is not enough to do better Ray Tracing is being misinformed.
Sure we're not close to having full path Ray Tracing in a 4K next gen game but you've got to start somewhere.
Just like the 3DO, Jaguar, PS1 and Sega Saturn started the 3D era of gaming and the 3D graphics on those consoles sucked is the same way this Gen is starting the Ray Tracing Era.

Of course the difference is not like a Switch vs a XB1. PS5 and XSX are in the same ball park performance wise. One will likely do better Ray Tracing or have better Frame Rates over the other.
 

Vroadstar

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I really don't get why any off the above has been met with such disdain.
At the end of the day he is talking about what he believes the ps5 route is going down.
Most of the angry people seem to be xbox fans, i am not even sure he mentions xbox in the above thread.

Xbox guys and girls, you have a really nice machine, its awesome, its just a different route than ps5 one.
You have to stop seeing red every time someone praises or has something positive to say about a different console.

Peace
xxxx
Unbelieveable

XSX is the most powerful console yet the fans still get triggered at the thought of Sony being better in other areas
For the last 7 years, they lost the sales, the exclusive games and before xbx, the power narrative. X fans got nothing to hold on all those lonely years. So its all just repressed emotions coming out.
 
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Sosokrates

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For some, self delusion maybe the only way to survive. So I support you buddy!
Self delusion? cerny said it....
Its in the eurogamer article.

But please continue, your immature ad hominem attacks dont do anything to disprove reality.
 

Sosokrates

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Which articles?
The single CU which was modified to resemble a CELL SPU to be used exclusively for audio is not part of the 36 CUs for graphics.
Where is your evidence of this?

This could be the case but, sony have not said.

And when we consider the ps5 gpu is most likely to be 40cus with 4 deactivated to improve yields, where is this extra audio CU going to come from?
 
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llien

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Vroadstar

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Self delusion? cerny said it....
Its in the eurogamer article.

But please continue, your immature ad hominem attacks dont do anything to disprove reality.
Sure buddy, once again I support you 100%
 

Sosokrates

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Sure buddy, once again I support you 100%
Support what? you agree with what cerny has said and what the Eurogamer states, thats great news.
I dont know why you doubt the system architect, and Eurogamer who have sony/cerny as there source.
 
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JimboJones

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'Well, this new patch has now dropped the resolution to 1600p on Xbox One X, which is the same resolution that Capcom chose last year for the Resident Evil 2 remake. ' - quote from above.

So, the resolution is the same on both consoles now and both have very similar fps....
Pro version is using reconstruction techniques, so it's image quality isn't quite up to par compared to Xbox one X even with both at 1620p
 

Thirty7ven

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Where is your evidence of this?

This could be the case but, sony have not said.

And when we consider the ps5 gpu is most likely to be 40cus with 4 deactivated to improve yields, where is this extra audio CU going to come from?
This explains a lot about your views. Thank you for exposing them, it’s always best when can see through others bullshit.
 
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FranXico

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And when we consider the ps5 gpu is most likely to be 40cus with 4 deactivated to improve yields, where is this extra audio CU going to come from?
Yes, I accounted for deactivated CUs.
The audio CU is not like the others though, is it? How would that fit into the process?

They designed the audio unit based on an RDNA2 CU, that's all they (Cerny) said. That doesn't mean you should subtract it from the total GPU CU count.

The claim that the audio unit was extracted from the GPU compute units is the one that needs proof.
 
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Sosokrates

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Yes, I accounted for deactivated CUs.
The audio CU is not like the others though, is it? How would that fit into the process?

They designed the audio unit based on an RDNA2 CU, that's all they (Cerny) said. That doesn't mean you should subtract it from the total GPU CU count.

The claim that the audio unit was extracted from the GPU compute units is the one that needs proof.
Both theories need proof, however just based on how these things work using a cu out of the 36 would be easier and cheaper

I think this is what you mean, where the tempest engine is that little customised 1cu block.

Just from a common sense point a view you would think just adding more customised cus to the main cu block would make more sense.
But like ive been saying cerny did not say the layout of the SoC.

Also a potential flaw with the theory in my diagram, is if the tempest engine was a seperate block it would also need redundantcy, it would not be immune to RDNA2 yield rates, so if they needed 1cu for tempest they would need 2 total cus (1 for redundantcy)
It sounds awfully complected. I will be genuinely surprised if they chose to do it this way.
 
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Sosokrates

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I sense some doubt here, delusion wearing off and reality setting in....
Ive been saying this from the start lol, but you wouldn't know because you just jump on the attack without actually reading what people say.
 

Jigga117

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Based on what DF has stated and what this guy is summarizing what we have had questions about. Why go variable instead of locked?
 

Vroadstar

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Ive been saying this from the start lol, but you wouldn't know because you just jump on the attack without actually reading what people say.
A couple post ago you are so sure of believing your own BS, then you were called out, now show proof as you are the one who made the claim of 36 cus being only 35. If you can't just take L
 

Sosokrates

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A couple post ago you are so sure of believing your own BS, then you were called out, now show proof as you are the one who made the claim of 36 cus being only 35. If you can't just take L
Its not BS though, when cerny says the tempest engine is an RDNA2 CU but without cache.

Making a separate 1 RDNA2 CU audio chip does not make a lot of sense, it sounds a headache from an engineering standpoint.

Perhaps you could provide some reasoning or evidence for why this seperate 1 cu audio would actually be a good idea. That's usually how conversation/debate works, and not just calling people "delusional"
 

Shmunter

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Its not BS though, when cerny says the tempest engine is an RDNA2 CU but without cache.

Making a separate 1 RDNA2 CU audio chip does not make a lot of sense, it sounds a headache from an engineering standpoint.

Perhaps you could provide some reasoning or evidence for why this seperate 1 cu audio would actually be a good idea. That's usually how conversation/debate works, and not just calling people "delusional"
Hehe, man that’s really reaching. I heard the zen cores on the I/O processor are actually cpu cores. Instead of 8 cpu cores, it’s 6 after the i/o. Hehe

I do believe Sony deliberately addressed these as seperate units and additive to the system.

But such duality does make sense, and is cost effective as you say, Indeed the XsX solution, at least for the sound is going to be done on cpu/GPU. Not entirely certain about the i/o setup, you’d expect for it not to burden the cpu. But why not, does so on pc.
 

Sosokrates

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Hehe, man that’s really reaching. I heard the zen cores on the I/O processor are actually cpu cores. Instead of 8 cpu cores, it’s 6 after the i/o. Hehe

I do believe Sony deliberately addressed these as seperate units and additive to the system.

But such duality does make sense, and is cost effective as you say, Indeed the XsX solution, at least for the sound is going to be done on cpu/GPU. Not entirely certain about the i/o setup, you’d expect for it not to burden the cpu. But why not, does so on pc.
Lol, but on the i/o they are not zen 2 cores, so that comparison is not the same at all.

You can believe what you like, but unless you have a valid source it makes little difference in discovery of what the tempest engine actually is.

We dont know what the xsx soultion is, i think DF's leadbetter said they have an audio chip.

And a ms dev said said it too.

 
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Shmunter

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Lol, but on the i/o they are not zen 2 cores, so that comparison is not the same at all.

You can believe what you like, but unless you have a valid source it makes little difference in discovery of what the tempest engine actually is.
You’re right, I’ve never seen the PS5 so until I have proof in my hands it doesn’t exist.

Nor does a bear shit in the woods.
 
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FranXico

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Making a separate 1 RDNA2 CU audio chip does not make a lot of sense, it sounds a headache from an engineering standpoint.
It makes as much sense (or lack thereof, if you wish) as designing the GPU in with one CU in particular stripped of cache.
That last part doesn't sound wrong to you?
 

Sosokrates

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You’re right, I’ve never seen the PS5 so until I have proof in my hands it doesn’t exist.

Nor does a bear shit in the woods.
Well thats stupid, sony have done 2 wired articles and a tech deep dive.
I can assure you it does exist 😎
 

Vroadstar

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The PS5s audio is actually using a re-engineered AMD GPU compute unit.

Which while may give excellent audio performance it leaves 35 compute units for graphics, and thus further lowering the PS5s GPU power. I would not be surprised if the PS5s gpu runs at under 10tflops most of the time.
Here's your BS claim, nowhere in that DF/Cerny article that cerny said 36 cu is now 35 because one CU is re-engineered for audio. You were called out because you are flat out wrong. You made the claim, the burden is on you to show proof or just take the L and admit you are wrong
 
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Sosokrates

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It makes as much sense (or lack thereof, if you wish) as designing the GPU in with one CU in particular stripped of cache.
That last part doesn't sound wrong to you?
What happens if the Cus with no cache fail?

Either approach sounds like nightmare.

You have a 40cu main GPU with 4 deactivated of redudantcy, and you have an audio chip with 2cus.

What happens if 38 cus from the main gpu work but the 2 in the audio chip dont work.

I would of thought caches can be disabled on a gpu by software, that way sony could use any cu in the GPU thus giving better yields.
 

Sosokrates

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Here's your BS claim, nowhere in that DF/Cerny article that cerny said 36 cu is now 35 because one CU is re-engineered for audio. You were called out because you are flat out wrong. You made the claim, the burden is on you to show proof or just take the L and admit you are wrong
Well it is a re engineered RDNA2 cu , but for the first time ever a gpu cu will be repurposed on a seperate chip because reasons....
And i did not say what I said was a fact so there is no burden of proof, but its a potential explanation, where as you have no counter argument and are just saying "you are wrong, you are wrong"
Im genuinely curious to know what the tempest engine actually is perhaps if can give a plausible explanation I would agree.
But you seem hellbent on trying to do some "gotcha" moment like its some competition.
 
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SplunkyMunkey

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Whats going happen is ps5 is would able to use more ram then the series x. Due to the ram setup eventually series x is gonna hit a brick wall and ps5 will snort to lower resolution. At the end of the day both gonna have there faults and every1 knows it
 
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Sosokrates

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That which you previously implied you would not care to prove to a bot (“something”)? Was it the existence of the PS5 lol?
Yeah but thats what you implied before this post.
 

thelastword

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Pro version is using reconstruction techniques, so it's image quality isn't quite up to par compared to Xbox one X even with both at 1620p
Wrong, both versions use CB, PRO does CB better...….What they are talking about is AA, pretending they don't know or are not sure "curiously the XBONEX version looks cleaner"......DMC5, RE2-Remake all looked sharper on PRO over XBOX, there's nothing curious.....XBOX is using a higher AA pass, which happens to blur the image on that console over PRO in all of these Capcom games....So XBOX has a few less jaggies on high specular but PRO looks sharper.......Also, XBOX can't do CB better than PRO, and the performance hit is higher on XBONEX over PRO when doing it...…..Maybe that's why they attempt to blur the image a bit more on XBOX to hide certain artefacts which was clearly present in RE7...….
 

Tomeru

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So GAF, do you think Sony did the right choice and focus their budget on improving the quality of other components of the console instead of maximizing the theoretical Teraflops count of their GPU?
Over all I'm glad Sony is trying to enhance the way games impact our other senses. I all up for some change. This whole generation had me play less and less new games. Everything is just the same, and I find myself sticking to games I,m familiar with. I have no urge to try out new games that are essentially just the same experience. Story is subjective, and gameplay elements have been repetitive for the last decade imo - you can only reinvent fps/tps/rpg etc, this much.

Still fun as fuck, I'll game till I die - but I welcome the potential change. I hope its worth it, I really do (though I have my doubts if any of this crap is NEEDED). If not, I'll continue enjoying the same games I do today.

Need to experience before I know. Until then Im just another internet expert.
 
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JimboJones

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Wrong, both versions use CB, PRO does CB better...….What they are talking about is AA, pretending they don't know or are not sure "curiously the XBONEX version looks cleaner"......DMC5, RE2-Remake all looked sharper on PRO over XBOX, there's nothing curious.....XBOX is using a higher AA pass, which happens to blur the image on that console over PRO in all of these Capcom games....So XBOX has a few less jaggies on high specular but PRO looks sharper.......Also, XBOX can't do CB better than PRO, and the performance hit is higher on XBONEX over PRO when doing it...…..Maybe that's why they attempt to blur the image a bit more on XBOX to hide certain artefacts which was clearly present in RE7...….
Looks worse on PS4pro
 

B_Boss

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Yeah but thats what you implied before this post.
I honestly did not imply anything other than a desire to see you prove what Shmunter Shmunter asked you to prove.

So to recap, Shmunter Shmunter asked for proof, you felt you didn’t need to prove anything to a “bot” (I assume you were implying he wasn’t worth your time?) so I had said essentially “well others aren’t bots” so prove to others instead of him 👌.
 

SplunkyMunkey

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The PS5s audio is actually using a re-engineered AMD GPU compute unit.

Which while may give excellent audio performance it leaves 35 compute units for graphics, and thus further lowering the PS5s GPU power. I would not be surprised if the PS5s gpu runs at under 10tflops most of the time.
How does that work when the audio has its own spu pool? I doubt it will use the compute
 

Genx3

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XSX is the most impressive console design ever.

The cooling, split motherboard, heatsink chasis everything about it is impressive.
I thought the XB1X was impressive but this blows the doors off the XB1X design.

Can't wait to see what Sony is coming up with.
 
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Genx3

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Wrong, both versions use CB, PRO does CB better...….What they are talking about is AA, pretending they don't know or are not sure "curiously the XBONEX version looks cleaner"......DMC5, RE2-Remake all looked sharper on PRO over XBOX, there's nothing curious.....XBOX is using a higher AA pass, which happens to blur the image on that console over PRO in all of these Capcom games....So XBOX has a few less jaggies on high specular but PRO looks sharper.......Also, XBOX can't do CB better than PRO, and the performance hit is higher on XBONEX over PRO when doing it...…..Maybe that's why they attempt to blur the image a bit more on XBOX to hide certain artefacts which was clearly present in RE7...….


I'm not sure why they don't use a dynamic 4K resolution over blurry CB on XB1X. CB does look better on PRO than XB1X. Custom HW on Pro.
 
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DChosenOne

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Why is the new controller high quality? MiyazakiHatesKojima MiyazakiHatesKojima Because it's two colours of plastics instead of one? Have you held it or used it?
Has anyone outside of Sony or developers with a vested interest in pushing the product held it.? Have you seen the design for the console or do you have any idea how it's cooling solution is designed?The answer is no to all of these questions. You're just a massive fanboy troll so just fuck off already with your lame ass threads and shut the fuck up.
 
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