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Itagaki talks about DOA
- Thread starter rockman zx
- Start date
Have you tried Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge? It's pretty good.
Please tell us.
What is so special about the counter fest that is DOA4?
DOA4 was trash gameplay-wise.
Phoenix Fang
Banned
But its not Ninja Gaiden 2 good soooo..no
I disagree with the bold but to each his own. The game is just a generic fighter now. Slow and boring gameplay, ugly looking models of the characters, bland environments. Plus they chasnge the characters around a little too much for my taste.
DR2K
Banned
DOA5 is the best DOA by and far. They made system mechanics work that didn't make sense before. Like stuns and throws giving real disadvantage. Itagaki believed that you should never have any sort of advantage in a fight. Just one example of many that made it a superior experience. As far as content goes, it's the biggest DOA even without DLC. They make a ton of DLC, but that's completely optional content. Online sucks, but very P2P based like the last DoAs.
Visuals are a lot more varied. Which a great thing from the generic doll factory they came from.
It's funny because guys like King and Wolf are way more fun and interesting than the Ninjas in DOA.
Generic doesn't mean anything to me. It's something you say when you don't know how to explain something you dislike. What mechanics don't sense in DoA5?
In DoA4, counters do too much. Everything leaves you at a disadvantage so that you're afraid to attack. Stun threshold is the single shittiest thing to have happened to the series. Balance was all over the place. Stages coming from DoA2U were terrible (I think DoA5's outstrip DoA4 by a fair margin). Everything, EVERYTHING, put you into critical state so that you were forced to play the shitty stun game. Nothing guaranteed, attacking was always in favor of the defender. there was no sidestep. Everything tracked. Free walking didn't do anything to avoid attacks, it was only good for positioning.
Most of that is a non-issue or greatly lessened in DoA5. Changed the characters too much? Most of the commands are identical to past DoA games.
DR2K
Banned
You can't disagree with the fact that DOA4 had system mechanics that led to nowhere. You could just block or hold your way out of anything. It was complete guess work 100% of the time. It was a joke of a fighter.
Coriolanus
Banned
The thing about NG2 is that it should've been very easily fixable with, say, another year of dev time. Remove the few boring enemies, the ranged spamfest, add some incidental detail to the levels and you're there. It's not hard to imagine how great a NG2:Black would be.
Alas, hayashi.
But yes, devil's third will most likely flop hard.
On the otherhand, if it's any good, the Wii U has another great action game to play
. I don't have sterling faith in Itagaki like some, so I'm definitely waiting on more footage. He talks a lot more than he's delivered for me.
So it's in line with the rest of the series in that regard?
Have you actually played it? I don't know whether you would rank it higher or lower than the other games but it's a proper Ninja Gaiden game, no doubt. It's all there.
The Faceless Master
Member
i dunno wtf he is on about, 5 is the best DOA. i just ignore all the fanservice costumes.
the real tragedy is Ninja Gaiden.
the real tragedy is Ninja Gaiden.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Garbage? That is a little extreme I think. Do you know what a truly garbage fighting game is? Try Shadow Warriors on 3DO. How about Criticom or Rise of the Robots on PSOne? Imo, DOA5 is one of the most competent and best fighters of the past generation. It's fairly easy to pick up, yet hard to master. I love me some DOA4 and the previous offerings, but I really cannot comprehend how people prefer the gameplay in the previous DOA's to DOA5. The gameplay is not perfect in DOA5, but to me It plays fairly similar to Virtua Fighter with certain modifications. I have been playing DOA since the first installment on the Saturn and PSOne and to me, DOA5 is by far the best iteration of the series and I do not understand what is suddenly generic about it. Also, give me the more realistic models over the expressionless, generic anime dolls any day of the week even if they had to sacrifice background detail and image quality.
Yeah, NG3 had major issues, but NG3: RE is a significant improvement and is very comparable to the past Ninja Gaiden games gameplay-wise. I think it is a good game. Yaiba has issues as well, but it is a side story basically. Not meant to be NG4 or anything. I think it is still fun and reminds me of God of War with a terrible camera and comic book style graphics.
I only really played the US version of DOA3 before getting into DOA5. I struggle to see how people find the gameplay in that better than DOA5. I really liked DOA5, I liked it so much that I will get a PS4 for Last Round (and GGXrd) when it launches next year.
But real talk, Tecmo-Koei's netcode is pathetic. They need to sort that shit out pronto... but their silence regarding it has made me very apprehensive about it.
But real talk, Tecmo-Koei's netcode is pathetic. They need to sort that shit out pronto... but their silence regarding it has made me very apprehensive about it.
eyeball_kid
Member
If the only game he made in his career was NG:Black, he'd still be in the Game Developer Hall of Fame. He will always have my respect for that alone.
Phoenix Fang
Banned
Whatever makes you sleep at night. I already had this discussion with you in the past, so I don't really care what you have to say to be honest.
You mean how a joke of a fighter DOA5 is? The same complaints you are also present in DOA 5.
Yes I have played it and no it's not a proper Ninja Gaiden game. Ninja Gaiden 3 was a horrific game and Razor Edge was just slightly polished up turd. Its like putting a turd in a bag but still leaving it out for everyone to see.
mcz117chief
Member
How is the blocking system different in DoA1 compared to other games ? I don't remember it being that different maybe except for the fact that the back button is block.
You can hold back to block in every doa. The difference on doa1 is that you couldn't counter during stun, and counters were more like parries. They did very little damage and gave you frame advantage.
I know we're never going to get counters from stun removed, but I would like a return of this counters that gave advantage and changed position.
That's cool, but you're still not saying anything about the mechanics in DoA5. It's almost like you don't know what you're talking about. Especially since you ignored everything I said to get your wicked burn on me, only to go on to say the problems DR2K has with DoA4 (which I mentioned) are present in DoA5. Stun threshold + counter damage makes DoA4 the worst in the series without taking into account the other problems with the game.
And I don't know about an argument about this in the past, but I found this thread where you completely dismissed the game before it was even announced. So that's hilarious.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=363669
mcz117chief
Member
There are still quite a few counters that just turn the enemy around without doing any damage, or am I missing the point ?
There aren't that many of them
There are a few characters that have parries like that (Gen Fu, Eliot, Bayman, Lei Fang...Hitomi has one for high or mid punches, off the top of my head). Most counters in the game do damage, knock down. They're not used the same way DoA1 counters were. And they can all be done from stun, which is the bigger deal (for me).
Phoenix Fang
Banned
But yet I still own the game and I've owned it since release day, played it and realize it was shit. So what's your point?
Emperor Bohe
Member
Hahaha, these posts. For the record I enjoyed DOA4 too, but DOA5 is a much better game when it comes to gameplay. Sure, it may look a little bit more "generic" but who cares when the gameplay is leagues better.
edit: DOA5 did have some crappy music when compared to the older games though.
edit: DOA5 did have some crappy music when compared to the older games though.
mcz117chief
Member
They can only be done from light stuns, if the character is in hard stun or in the air then it can't counter. Also, it would be a total guessing game if you could only do counters if you are not being stunned at all, isn't it better to be rewarded for knowing the combos of your enemies and predicting their pattern (since many combos have varieties within themselves) ? I must say I am content with the current system we have
They can only be done from light stuns, if the character is in hard stun or in the air then it can't counter. Also, it would be a total guessing game if you could only do counters if you are not being stunned at all, isn't it better to be rewarded for knowing the combos of your enemies and predicting their pattern (since many combos have varieties within themselves) ? I must say I am content with the current system we have
The only stuns you can't counter from are limbo, sit down, and turn around stuns. Those are a very small percentage of stuns in the game. It's already a total guessing game for most attacks.
I don't know at you mean here, honestly. I don't know what you mean by 'light stun.' especially since, in addition to being able to counter during most stuns in doa games past the first, you can also counter out of stun.
Seriously? You do realize when trying to prove a point you have to back up your argument with reasoning right?
mcz117chief
Member
Light stun is when you punch someone a couple of times. After a couple of hits you will see a red sign saying something like "critical stun" or something like that, in that phase the enemy can't counter. Also, if the enemy is in mid air it can't counter either.
Critical stun notification happens whenever you are stunned. It turns red when a critical burst will trigger the special stun. This happens at the end of the stun threshold (at the point where they will fall down out of a stun, it's tied to the amount of damage you do during critical state).
And yes, they CAN counter during entirety of being stunned unless it's a sit down stun, a turn around stun, a limbo stun, or they've just been hit with a critical burst move.
mcz117chief
Member
shinobi602
Member
Did he say when we're getting DOAX3?
DR2K
Banned
Could you please give a specific example?
The level design and IQ definitely suffered with Itagaki gone but gameplay and character design improved. I think the franchise is better off without him but DOA3 is still my favorite so it's weird. Here's hoping TN hits all the highs of the franchise with its 6th entry. I'm still not sure about NG, if TN drops the ball again with NG4 then yeah Itagaki will be missed for that IP.
ShinMaruku
Member
How the new parts of NG:RE works I think Team Ninja got their groove back. New characters are so much better. They all have Iframes and unique mechanics. Misty for example has a grab which is the most devastating grab that Phase 4 can throw you into.
In DOA5 we have true side steps, some moves still do track but you can side step holds are nerfed (So much so that if somebody tries to hold my Momiji they fall into death when she throws them for 25% of their life XD) The bound system and sit down stuns are great. I can sit you down with Ayane then launch you for example.
In DOA5 we have true side steps, some moves still do track but you can side step holds are nerfed (So much so that if somebody tries to hold my Momiji they fall into death when she throws them for 25% of their life XD) The bound system and sit down stuns are great. I can sit you down with Ayane then launch you for example.
mcz117chief
Member
this man (or madame ?) gets it, I agree with everything 100%. I also love Razor's Edge
(my favourite Ninja Gaiden to be honest)Can you elaborate on this please ? Which throw/grab is that ?
ShinMaruku
Member
236 Grab which she kicks you up into the air which allows her do to her 45% damage combo. It's her bread and butter.this man (or madame ?) gets it, I agree with everything 100%. I also love Razor's Edge
Can you elaborate on this please ? Which throw/grab is that ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngfTGstJvLc from 30 seconds in you see it worked into her combos. VERY damaging
mcz117chief
Member
Can this be performed only by Phase-4 or also by Misty in the vanilla DOA5 ? (I only have the vanilla game)
SkylineRKR
Member
Razor's Edge is a piece of shit. I bought it off Zavvi last year because it was cheap, turned out to be my worst game of 2013. It was awful. Haven't played vanilla and never will.
NG2 is this close to be a fucking classic. All it takes is a stable current-gen up port, with some fixes on offscreen bullshit. Too bad we got Sigma 2 already, which is a laughable version. The combat and level design wasn't developed for NG1 enemy counts.
DoA5 is pretty good, but its IQ, stages and music took a hit.
NG2 is this close to be a fucking classic. All it takes is a stable current-gen up port, with some fixes on offscreen bullshit. Too bad we got Sigma 2 already, which is a laughable version. The combat and level design wasn't developed for NG1 enemy counts.
DoA5 is pretty good, but its IQ, stages and music took a hit.
mcz117chief
Member
Tell me why you consider Razor's Edge bad ? For me it is the ultimate Ninja Gaiden game, the only think lacking is level design which is pretty basic and story, everything else is 10/10. During summer at our regional gaming expo what do you think was the game that people wanted to play the most ? Mortal Kombat ? Nope. GTA V ? Nope. Naruto ? Nope (but it was second). Halo ? Nope. Ground Zeroes ? Nope. It was Razor's Edge, I was playing it during the off hours when there was almost nobody around and immediately once I started people wanted to try it out too and there was an endless line to try out the game after that until the end of the next day. Some people even said that they are going to buy PS3 so that they can play the game at home !
rockman zx
Member
More stuff from Itagaki.
thelastword
Banned
I can agree on two things, I think the stage graphics have taken a step down in DOA5, so has IQ. DOA 2 on the dreamcast, Doa3 on the xbox and DOA4 on the 360 all had very nice IQ. They had bright stages and good textures. All of that became worse in DOA5.
On the second point is DLC, I have never seen a series with costume dlc being so expensive, it's ridiculous. Even now, last round is coming out, the third iteration of DOA5 and still not all the costumes are packed in, at this point, what kind of popularity will this old game have to warrant even extra costume purchases after the third edition?
I will buy this game on PS4 since I was kind put off by the bad IQ and weak textures of the last gen versions, hopefully they make amends here, eventually I will buy the PC version for costumes and mods. It made no sense buying expensive costumes on the last gen versions to adorn jaggy characters.
Also I hope they're working on DOA6 from the ground up for next gen consoles, no last gen versions please, that ship has sailed.
On the second point is DLC, I have never seen a series with costume dlc being so expensive, it's ridiculous. Even now, last round is coming out, the third iteration of DOA5 and still not all the costumes are packed in, at this point, what kind of popularity will this old game have to warrant even extra costume purchases after the third edition?
I will buy this game on PS4 since I was kind put off by the bad IQ and weak textures of the last gen versions, hopefully they make amends here, eventually I will buy the PC version for costumes and mods. It made no sense buying expensive costumes on the last gen versions to adorn jaggy characters.
Also I hope they're working on DOA6 from the ground up for next gen consoles, no last gen versions please, that ship has sailed.
Itagaki made like 6 different versions of DoA2.
3 different versions of DoA3.
Made the absolute worst entry in the series with DoA4.
Also love that he never comments on gameplay. On how the community is thriving. Why it's a bad thing that a game continues to get support post release.
3 different versions of DoA3.
Made the absolute worst entry in the series with DoA4.
Also love that he never comments on gameplay. On how the community is thriving. Why it's a bad thing that a game continues to get support post release.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Bit hard to understand since he isnt the best in english
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I Think he is way off-base here.
The costumes are not directed at the typical DOA fan. Its directed at a total.....other....fanbase entirely.
The recent inclusions to Tekken are clear example of this. Dont be surprised if SFV has one too.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Costume DLC is a necessary evil. The fighting games you want made can not be made and sold just to series fans or the fighting game community, there has to be an alternative revenue source.
This is why there's the madness of trying to make a fighting game appeal to everyone with gems, how a company can't produce the #1 fighting game in the world on their own (and their big upgrade can't afford to hire a 3D modeler for a new character), how a crossover fighter that was announced years ago was shelved for a sweetheart deal with the world's biggest IP instead, why there's ten different versions of every fighting game, etc.
It is what it is. Itagaki is pining for a time when fighting games could be made with competitive budgets and sell to expectations. That time doesn't exist anymore.
This is why there's the madness of trying to make a fighting game appeal to everyone with gems, how a company can't produce the #1 fighting game in the world on their own (and their big upgrade can't afford to hire a 3D modeler for a new character), how a crossover fighter that was announced years ago was shelved for a sweetheart deal with the world's biggest IP instead, why there's ten different versions of every fighting game, etc.
It is what it is. Itagaki is pining for a time when fighting games could be made with competitive budgets and sell to expectations. That time doesn't exist anymore.
Pretty much.
Even if we don't count the one version of DOA2 PS2 that was shipped without his knowledge/consent, that still doesn't leave much room him to talk about re-releases. Everything else just sounds like missing the forest for its trees.