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[AndrewDean84xX]

I agree building momentum is important, but they need to give 3DS a strong identity. Atm, looks like consumers are confused.

I wouldn't say consumers are confused, just hardcores on message boards.

 

[wsippel]

Investors are idiots, remember? And their stock went up when that dumb Pokemon rhythm card-game crap for iOS was announced.

Sure, but those aren't investors, they're gamblers. Investors look for long term investments in companies with a sound business to reap nice dividends. Problem is that gamblers make the stock prices these days.

Companies that bet on AppStore or social network games try to get hype, reach a high market cap, sell the company for billions and see it crash and burn because there never actually was anything but hype to begin with. It's dotcom 2.0. That's neither viable nor desirable to a company like Nintendo, no matter what analysts think.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Investors are idiots, remember? And their stock went up when that dumb Pokemon rhythm card-game crap for iOS was announced.

So your argument is that, in four months, Nintendo's investors are going to force bankruptcy, make them cut their losses on production, throw away the last $300 million or so of R&D, and have them convert all their current projects to other systems.

And you say the investors are idiots.

 

[[Nintex]]

How is $40 bad? PSP games cost that, and a few were even more than that at one point.

For a brand new Mario game that's not bad but for Pilotwings Resort or PacMan they just can't get away with it.

 

[Operations]

I hope everything goes well for the 3DS and Nintendo, I'm starting to feel a bit worried ;_;

They also should start to throw money at japanese third party.

Pointless. My cynical self tells me the 3DS and Vita have no place in today's society. It's all about multifunctional devices (no one wants to carry more than one thing these days), $0.99 instant gratification apps and Angry Birds.

 

[JakkuFurosu]

I think that region locking has the effect to limit the damage a single pirate can do with a single copy of the game. Without region-locking, it is possible with one copy of the game to supply all the illegal copies of the game in the entire world. With cartdidge-based systems, this wasn't really a problem, because copying a cartridge required another cartridge, and they were expensive. Copying a Flash Card is very cheap, though.

Really? (i honestly dont know) but a hacked wii mostly negates region locking so i would guess that if the 3ds was hacked region locking would be the first to go ( and iirc its developers choice to region lock a 3ds game so that would tell me its software not hardware that determines this which would probably be the first thing they adjust)

 

[pulga]

But if it doesn't succeed this holiday and maintain success afterward, investors will force Nintendo to either leave the hardware business or deal with bankruptcy. The entire company is riding on this, and the situation is making itself worse because customers are losing faith in Nintendo as well. The fact of the matter is that Nintendo's risking a lot here, and it would really be in their best interest to throw in the towel right now. If Nintendo had instead announced that they were abandoning the 3DS and moving to iOS yesterday, their stock price would have skyrocketed. Now, it'll be below $10 by October.

Lol. How is this deluded person not banned yet? Weak trolling attempts.

 

[Tobor]

For a brand new Mario game that's not bad but for Pilotwings Resort or PacMan they just can't get away with it.

Exactly. Steel Diver at $40 was a crime against humanity.

 

[jett]

It's been really strange to see Nintendo -- who knocked it out of the park two times in a row with how it handled the DS and the Wii -- completely bungle, muddle, and half-ass their messaging on those systems' successors. They had crystal clear, laser-like precision with how they positioned and marketed the magical dual-screen touchscreen handheld (Brain Age! Nintendogs!) and the revolutionary motion-controlled console (Wii Sports! Wii Fit!), but the 3DS as of yet has no real identity of its own, or at least one that you can sum up quick and clear -- it fails the elevator pitch test. And granted, WiiU is still a ways off, but their confusing, awkward E3 reveal left more questions than answers.

I can't really grasp why they're dropping the ball in terms of marketing these products. Software quality questions aside ... though honestly, I think a large part of it is because there is no singular piece of software that acts as a proof of concept for why people need to buy the 3DS, and acts as a guiding light for their marketing. Nintendo indicated that they thought the AR Games and Face Raiders would do that, but if they sincerely believed that (and weren't just using that as a stall and deflect answer), then I fear they're really losing their way.

It's kind of funny how the only two Nintendo machines that failed in the market are two that share the same unique selling proposition: 3D. At leas this time Nintendo isn't leaving the 3DS to die.

 

[The Mana Legend]

For a brand new Mario game that's not bad but for Pilotwings Resort or PacMan they just can't get away with it.

Actually they can. And most of the time, they do.

 

[Vinci]

And granted, WiiU is still a ways off, but their confusing, awkward E3 reveal left more questions than answers.

Opposite of what many people on GAF seem to think, I feel the Wii U is in a much better position to sell well (barring they don't do anything completely stupid with it price-wise) than the 3DS is. The 3DS, from what I can tell based on their interviews about it, is the result of a series of pet projects Nintendo has conducted for over a decade with 3D technology. They really, really wanted to use 3D technology in something. And thus, we have the 3DS. What the DS and Wii did was capture an unrealized want that the mainstream audience had; the 3DS doesn't. People just don't care about 3D that much, and it offers nothing like the other two products' features for software innovation that showcases the value of the 3D display.

 

[Wizman23]

How is $40 bad? PSP games cost that, and a few were even more than that at one point.

Its bad because a vast majority of people get their hand held gaming software through 99 cent apps. The only way I see the 3DS and PS Vita being successful is if Apple ceases production on both the iphone and ipad.

 

[Rated-Rsuperstar]

Nintendo is still competing with their own market. Even with the price drop the 3DS doesn't have a prayer until the DS stops selling.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Really? (i honestly dont know) but a hacked wii mostly negates region locking so i would guess that if the 3ds was hacked region locking would be the first to go ( and iirc its developers choice to region lock a 3ds game so that would tell me its software not hardware that determines this)

I admit I'm not an expert in that field. If someone has a more plausible explanation, I would be glad to hear it.
I could account for the fact Nintendo was the first to introduce region locking worldwide long ago, after the crash of 1983. But it would be silly :lol

 

[BurntPork]

So your argument is that, in four months, Nintendo's investors are going to force bankruptcy, make them cut their losses on production, throw away the last $300 million or so of R&D, and have them convert all their current projects to other systems.

And you say the investors are idiots.

I was wrong. Sorry. It turns out that it's just that a bunch of idiots sold their stock yesterday and will probably end up regretting it.

 

[[Nintex]]

It's kind of funny how the only two Nintendo machines that failed in the market are two that share the same unique selling proposition: portable 3D.

You also got to wonder what Konno was smoking when he proposed that. Going by interviews initially Iwata was even against it but they didn't have any other ideas to make the 3DS stand out.

 

[watershed]

Actually, the stock is going up a tiny bit today. Nevermind.

I'm not sure but I don't think you mean to be a troll or say completely ridiculous things but you have an unfortunate habit of posting before thinking and thinking only in extreme binaries. You also seem to lack a basic understanding of how the video game industry works or the market realities involved. I'm not trying to insult you, what I'm saying is that you are still a junior and have plenty of time to change your posting behavior before you cement your reputation. Cuz really there are a lot of posts that don't add anything of value to a thread and just get ignored, why would you want your posts to be like that. And sorry if this post sounds patronizing, dealing with kids this morning has me in full parenting mode.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I was wrong. Sorry. It turns out that it's just that a bunch of idiots sold their stock yesterday and will probably end up regretting it.

Your argument's fallacies and, well, craziness had very little to do with the day to day value of the stock.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

But if it doesn't succeed this holiday and maintain success afterward, investors will force Nintendo to either leave the hardware business or deal with bankruptcy. The entire company is riding on this, and the situation is making itself worse because customers are losing faith in Nintendo as well. The fact of the matter is that Nintendo's risking a lot here, and it would really be in their best interest to throw in the towel right now. If Nintendo had instead announced that they were abandoning the 3DS and moving to iOS yesterday, their stock price would have skyrocketed. Now, it'll be below $10 by October.

You're buying into the doom-saying a little too early. But if you're that sure of yourself you should short stock and reap the rewards.

 

[orioto]

Dude, I respect you as an artist, but that thread? I read it. You weren't flamed by Nintendo fanboys, you were simply out-argued. Their arguments simply made more sense than yours.

As for innovation: It's what allows Nintendo to keep its hardware costs down and the price of its systems as low as possible while still netting the company a healthy profit. This is called Manufacturing 101. This is what everyone should do when they produce hardware for a living. And I think you'll find that both Sony and MS will have learned that lesson in time for next-gen.

Lol why the artist line seriously...
And yeah let's say i used some weak arguments in my thread so people focused on that to avoid the real questions, like there was absolutely no problem at all and we couldn't debate about Nintendo's strategy.

And i'm not speaking about hardware cost, you know perfectly well.. You do the same. I'm speaking about the fact that they base each new hardware on a gimmick.

Let's imagine we forced Nintendo to forget any gimmick for the 3ds, no 3d, no innovations at all, but just the analog stick and more power. i wonder.. how would they make us excited for it, hm... Well, they would need exciting new games! And they couldn't release the hardware without it. But they could actually do it, cause there was the 3d smoke screen so it was ok.

 

[jokkir]

I read the part of the article where Iwata says give it four months to give judgement. That doesn't really mean he's giving it four months before it totally bombs and is discontinued, right? At least that's what I got from it.

 

[Automatisch]

I bought my 3DS at launch basically thinking that even though it sucks now and won't have games til the end of the year, at least there won't be a price cut until well into next year. And now with the $169.99 change and the weak attempt to appease early adopters (free ROMs), I'm basically just sour on Nintendo at the moment. Continuing to sell games like OOT and Star Fox at $40 isn't going to magically make the 3DS a big seller, either, so I'm really wondering if Mario and Mario Kart are going to be the thing that makes the 3DS matter, because it really doesn't have much going for it even with a price cut. At least the Vita can learn from Nintendo's mistake(s) and try to pull off a great launch, and it at least has one or two must-buy games for most everyone.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Its bad because a vast majority of people get their hand held gaming software through 99 cent apps. The only way I see the 3DS and PS Vita being successful is if Apple ceases production on both the iphone and ipad.

lol, bollocks.
There is a market for both cheap apps and more expensive traditional games.

 

[evangd007]

Because it's mostly kids that want the DSi, and their parents will be scared off by the 3DS's warnings. The 3D made it dead-on-arrival. Even worse, since DS games don't look good at all in the 3DS screen, there's still a reason for even older gamers to choose the DSi over the 3DS. Nothing short of the best library ever could save it, and that's not what it's getting. Even if it survives, it'll be Nintendo's least successful handheld BY FAR, which is why investors want Nintendo to move on to iOS.

Nobody knows that DS games look worse on the 3DS. Hell, this is the first I heard of it and I post on a gaming board. My experience with Shantae was perfectly fine.

As for the eye strain bullshit, Nintendo should just retract the statement and say, "False alarm, 3D is no worse for your eye health that OLEDs."

I find your conclusion that the 3DS will do worse than the Virtual Boy frankly astonishing. It has had a better first year than the DS. Should it have been better than that? Yes. Is it cause for your hyperbolic FUD? No.

 

[Souldriver]

I wouldn't say consumers are confused, just hardcores on message boards.

Yeah, perhaps people are actually overestimating (or is it underestimating) the thought process of the average consumer.

There's 2 possible ways of thinking about this:

• Nintendo needs to market the 3DS as the next progression of the DS line. Just let all the DS owning people know that there's a new one that they'll need to play the latest games. Relying on brand loyalty and similarity with the DS might be a good thing.
  
• Nintendo needs to market the 3DS as something completely new, different from the DS. The similarities with the DS confuses consumers into thinking they don't need it to play the new games, or they aren't even aware of it being a new console. They had better made the name and form factor of the handheld different.

Recently, the sales numbers seem to validate the second thought process, but I'm not sure if there's actually a causation relationship between the two. I can see a hypothetical scenario with a Gameboy2 release that doesn't fare well, and all of gaf claiming Nintendo are idiots for dropping the DS brand and form factor. Hindsight analysis...

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

You also got to wonder what Konno was smoking when he proposed that. Going by interviews initially Iwata was even against it but they didn't have any other ideas to make the 3DS stand out.

But it is not the 3D really that is hampering the sales of the system. The biggest problem here is that the market is different than 6-7 years ago. $39.99 retail games get harder and harder to sell. Nintendo understood some of that. But then they release Nintendogs+Cats and Steel Diver at $39.99!

Then on top of that, you just do not have enough attractive software to swim upstream in these conditions.

The 3DS just needs to survive an accumulate a smaller but more intimate userbase than the DS. Let Nintendo make money off of selling 3 million copies of Mario Kart, Super Mario Bros., Super Smash 3D, Tomodachi Collection 3D, etc.

 

[gatti-man]

Quote my tag if you want I don't give a fuck. 3DS is the first victim of a new portable market, I don't see it being "resurrected". Vita is just as fucked, unless a miracle happens.

If you are right then im leaving portable gaming. Even the best of ios has nothing on ds/psp games to me let alone next gen.

 

[Jokeropia]

It's kind of funny how the only two Nintendo machines that failed in the market are two that share the same unique selling proposition: 3D.

If the 3DS qualifies as failing in the market then at the very least, so does the GCN.

 

[[Nintex]]

lol, bollocks.
There is a market for both cheap apps and more expensive traditional games.

True but you can't sell cheap apps for the price of traditional games, which are what Ubisoft, Namco, Sega et all are doing in this type of market. Yet it doesn't make any sense to develop a game with console production values either so the handheld market is kinda screwed in that sense. What's also interesting is that the US and EU markets lean towards consoles and the Japanese market is centered around handhelds. For a company like Nintendo that releases their games globally this is also an issue.

 

[perfectnight]

ruh roh

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I read the part of the article where Iwata says give it four months to give judgement. That doesn't really mean he's giving it four months before it totally bombs and is discontinued, right? At least that's what I got from it.

The actual context is "Give it four months before you start making more demands about what we do with it."

For some reason this is being interpreted as "Give it four months before we discontinue all hardware forever."

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

I read the part of the article where Iwata says give it four months to give judgement. That doesn't really mean he's giving it four months before it totally bombs and is discontinued, right? At least that's what I got from it.

No, they won't cancel the system at that point. It's just not meeting the sales targets as predicted, largely in part due to price and confusion between DS systems.

 

[dimb]

How is $40 bad? PSP games cost that, and a few were even more than that at one point.

I think you should go look up how PSP games sell in America.

 

[wsippel]

Exactly. Steel Diver at $40 was a crime against humanity.

Yep. Would have made a nice eShop launch title, though.

 

[orioto]

I wouldn't say consumers are confused, just hardcores on message boards.

You should see consumers asking sellers in stores "why can't i play this 3ds game on my nds ??"

 

[thelurkinghorror]

How is $40 bad? PSP games cost that, and a few were even more than that at one point.

You and a lot of peoples here on gaf still ignoring iOS and Android. They are gaming platform, a perfect consoles for the "touch generation" who Nintendo grew with DS and Wii.

Look at Shinobi fro 3DS, cost like Zelda OOT but on Appstore you can buy games like that for 99cents.

Nintendo is lucky to have learn this lesson with 3DS now, because after this they have to completely change they WiiU plan. Now they have enough time to do that. I think this can delay the release of WiiU for another 6 months.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

I wouldn't say consumers are confused, just hardcores on message boards.

Consumers aren't confused, they are just not interested in buying a dedicated handheld anymore.

 

[Majine]

No, they won't cancel the system at that point. It's just not meeting the sales targets as predicted, largely in part due to price and confusion between DS systems.

Wonder when they'll cancel DS Lite, or something. To cut down on the DS systems to avoid confusion. Besides, it's not like the GBA port is making them any money at this point.

 

[forknknife]

It has already begun.

FINALLY! FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

 

[Barrett2]

I suspect a lot of consumer families just have DS fatigue.

Think how many millions of parents out there have their kids tell them, "I want a 3DS," and the parent's response is; "don't we already have like 5 of those in the house!?"

 

[Vinci]

Lol why the artist line seriously...

It's called a compliment.

And yeah let's say i used some weak arguments in my thread so people focused on that to avoid the real questions, like there was absolutely no problem at all and we couldn't debate about Nintendo's strategy.

You are free to debate Nintendo's strategy. Hell, I'm not happy with the current strategy for the 3DS, though the Wii U's looks quite a bit better from my vantage point. But when you debate their strategy, people are free to disagree with you and, in fact, can best your analysis with their own.

And i'm not speaking about hardware cost, you know perfectly well.. You do the same. I'm speaking about the fact that they base each new hardware on a gimmick.

Also known as innovation. Given its an innovation that appeals to a wide swatch of people, it allows them to price the system far higher than its component costs and make a sizable amount of profit on it. It's also something they have tried to do with each system in some form or another.

Let's imagine we forced Nintendo to forget any gimmick for the 3ds, no 3d, no innovations at all, but just the analog stick and more power. i wonder.. how would they make us excited for it, hm... Well, they would need exciting new games! And they couldn't release the hardware without it. But they could actually do it, cause there was the 3d smoke screen so it was ok.

So your argument is that by utilizing hardware innovation, Nintendo is able to avoid software innovation - rather than the two going hand-in-hand? I disagree with that, since without hardware innovation we wouldn't have gotten Wii Sports Resort or Ouendan. Opinions vary, of course, but those are two experiences that I and my family are glad were able to exist. I don't consider what's happening on the less innovative platforms to be software innovation when much of the focus has been on experiences the PC has been delivering for a decade or more.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Consumers aren't confused, they are just not interested in buying a dedicated handheld anymore.

Not true at all.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Exactly. Steel Diver at $40 was a crime against humanity.

This is exactly one of the points I' have been meaning to mention. Much of the lackluster 3DS performance should be attributed to the man who managed the scheduling and production for Steel Diver, Nintendogs+Cats. Hi Miyamoto! Remember how the Steel Diver director wanted to make Steel Diver an actual game full of content? But Mr. Miyamoto thought we would love to pay $39.99 for Steel Diver as is.

 

[Mael]

I'm sorry, but I think those in here thinking it won't help are absolutely out of their mind.

1. They're not lowering DSi prices, which will kill off the DS.
2. Price, which was the #1 factor in poor sales according to surveys, is fixed.
3. A new Mario Kart and a new Super Mario game (both HUGE system sellers) are releasing before the holiday season.
4. It will be priced $80 lower than the Vita.

The holiday season will be HUGE for the 3DS and it will have a large userbase before the Vita is released. That's what they need.

huh, super mario BROS games are huge system sellers, super mario games on the other hand are not so hot as far as system sellers go.

But it is not the 3D really that is hampering the sales of the system. The biggest problem here is that the market is different than 6-7 years ago. $39.99 retail games get harder and harder to sell. Nintendo understood some of that. But then they release Nintendogs+Cats and Steel Diver at $39.99!

Then on top of that, you just do not have enough attractive software to swim upstream in these conditions.

3D is not the reason? The primary reasons given by the survey were price, battery life and freaking 3D destroying the eyes!
The battery life is crap BECAUSE of the 3D... which is also the reason it was so overpriced : because they expected people to value the 3D.
People didn't buy in that.

The 3DS just needs to survive an accumulate a smaller but more intimate userbase than the DS. Let Nintendo make money off of selling 3 million copies of Mario Kart, Super Mario Bros., Super Smash 3D, Tomodachi Collection 3D, etc.

Investors will call for bloody murder if they see Super Mario Bros and Mario Kart selling at a third of its sales potential.

 

[Theonik]

These next 4 months will be very interesting that's for sure..

 

[Sianos]

Not if they kill it in four months. That timeline is suicide. In four months, their stock will be non-existent, and the only way they'll regain the trust of investors is by going third-party. Giving a timeline like this was the dumbest thing Iwata could have done.

There needs to be a Nintendo point and click adventure game where every false move leads to a game over and a cute cutscene of how Nintendo is DOOOOOMED.

With the price cut and the pretty strong line up for the holidays and 2012 (Mario Kart, Super Mario, Kid Icarus, Paper Mario, Star Fox, Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario, etc.) I don't think they're dooooomed this time. Yeah, we might have another Gamecube, but they won't be forced to go third party or anything at all.

Spoiler

I would buy that game. <3

Yes, I realize you're being sarcastic

PAPER MARIO makes it a success in my books <3

 

[BurntPork]

The actual context is "Give it four months before you start making more demands about what we do with it."

For some reason this is being interpreted as "Give it four months before we discontinue all hardware forever."

I predict that it will be demanded that they discontinue it. The price cut will only really help in Japan, most likely.

Yes, I realize you're being sarcastic

Totally. Finally someone gets it.

 

[Vinci]

This is exactly one of the points I' have been meaning to mention. Much of the lackluster 3DS performance should be attributed to the man who managed the scheduling and production for Steel Diver, Nintendogs+Cats. Hi Miyamoto! Remember how the Steel Diver director wanted to make Steel Diver an actual game full of content? But Mr. Miyamoto thought we would love to pay $39.99 for Steel Diver as is.

And wasn't the whole 3D display thing Miyamoto's pet project?

 

[JazzmanZ]

The 3DS hasn't even been out for a whole year yet, Nintendo wants to see what happens with it during its first holiday season before making any more drastic measures.

I hope it sells good enough this holiday especially since it has two big Mario games coming out.

This will also probably help Nintendo when it comes to releasing the Wii U next year and needing to give the system a strong momentum launch. (Hell they'll probably delay the Wii U launch to next year fall in order to get a better launch library)

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Not true at all.

To the Pokemon crowd, yes, it's not true at all.

iOS & Android are eating faster into the handheld market than Nintendo anticipated. Even Sony knows this.