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[lwilliams3]

I think some people do not really understand why Nintendo is making this drastic move. It is not because the 3DS will become a failure like the virtual boy otherwise. The software coming out during the holidays will prevent it from becoming that, and the 3DS is already somewhat rebounding compared to how things were before June. But Nintendo doesn't want the 3DS to be just ok; It wants it to be the true successor to the DS.

Nintendo reduced the price so that more early adapters will pick it up to gain a bigger userbase. Even if a significant number may use it as a DS in the short run, a bigger userbase will be better to maintain good software sales for when the AAA software arrive.

For example: A good number of people who has a 3DS brought OoT 3D, but since the userbase is so low, that is not as significant as it should be. The price drop, will improve the sales of good games already on the market like games like Street Fighter and OoT. l

 

[mclem]

I've been thinking about Mario Kart, because there's one question that I don't think's ever really been addressed with it: Does Mario Kart sell systems, or do systems sell Mario Kart?

Mario Kart has always been a reliable banker; it sells well from the off, and both the Wii and DS titles have shown remarkable legs. But, going from my own psychology, it's not a game I buy a system for. If I have the system, it's a given I'll buy the Mario Kart for it, but I don't know if my mind works the other way around.

Then again, my gaming psychology probably differs greatly from the mass-market audience's psychology. Perhaps Mario Kart's a system seller for them. Does Mario Kart's release usually herald significant spikes in the sales of hardware?

 

[Mael]

Don´t only blame third party publishers. Nintendo gets most of the blame here.

Why should anyone blame them anyway? Especially the western devs, they released jackshit on DS anyway, why would the usual customer expect anything from them anyway?

 

[Vinci]

Don´t only blame third party publishers. Nintendo gets most of the blame here.

I can blame them for massively misreading the market. Yes, I can. And I will. Nintendo gets a healthy portion of blame for how the Wii turned out market-wise, but it's not their fault 3rd parties were completely dumbfounded by its success.

 

[KAL2006]

Like others have pointed out, Steel Diver and Monkey Ball are laughable value propositions at $40. If nothing else, the iOS and Facebook gaming phenomena has taught most consumers that many games are really only "worth" a few bucks.

I don't get this argument every console in history gets shitty gamesfor example wii got carnival games ds go petz ps3 got move heroes and etc. It is standard to get shitty shovelware it is up to the consumers to decide what's worth their money and many people see games like Mario worth full price.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I don't see how 3ds sales won't skyrocket right away. It's the same price as a DSi, and it's backwards compatible. The DSi sells 300-500k a month in the US. You'd have to be brain dead to buy one over a 3DS now.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I never get why people talk about the Virtual Boy as a "big mistake" of Nintendo's. In the end, how much impact did its failure have on the company?

 

[Lonely1]

Oh you mean the numbers that have shown over the last 3 years sales of software and hardware for handhelds continue to fall flat as smartphone growth has exploded. Those numbers?

The point is that the DS is still selling extremely well. And sales haven't dipped that much.

 

[Mael]

I never get why people talk about the Virtual Boy as a "big mistake" of Nintendo's. In the end, how much impact did its failure have on the company?

It's a failure because it didn't catch on and was quickly killed.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Other M is controversial BUT WiiMusic is pathetic? Seriously at least WiiMusic sold enough to not kill the brand it was based on.

Are you enjoying Wii Music 2? I

What makes OtherM controversial and WiiMusic pathetic? because the market reaction was better for WiiMusic.

Just my opinion there. I think very low of Wii Music as $49.99 software. Metroid: Other M is like Zelda 2. Black sheep. Some love it. Some hate it. I love both.

For that matter shoudln't you leave Miyamoto out of the loop since he's the primary reason behind WiiSports and WiiFit and both are the reasons Nintendo had their success with the Wii (that Miyamoto also helped design). I won't go into Steel Diver I don't comment on things I have no info on.

We are not leaving Miyamoto out of the loop because this discussion is about 3DS dismal launch. Mr. Miyamoto manages the teams who developed Nintendogs+Cats, Steel Diver, and Zelda: Ocarina of time 3D. I do not personally blame Mr. Miyamoto for anything but it is more of a theoretical argument of why blame Iwata and overlook Mr. Miyamoto if you want to play the blame game.

Sakamoto has not produced a 3DS game yet. But he did create Rhythm Tengoku and Tomodachi Collection on the DS.

 

[Coolwhip]

It has already begun.

Haha, not very subtle either.

"This is not DS, this is 3DS"

The whole commercial looks kinda cheap and corny though. Is it a toy? Is it a gadget? Nintendo's marketing department rarely impresses me.

Just saw that, I loled XD

I think Christmas will put Nintendo back on track, the price drop, all the new games coming out during holidays. Kids will kill each other and beg their parents for a 3DS.

Kid: 'I WANT MAH 3DS DADDY!'
Dad: 'You know, son, I can't afford 250$ right now, even if its Christmas.. I'll buy it when the price will drop.'
Kid: 'No! Look! *Shows an ad with the price drop*
Dad: 'Shit...=_='

Well...maybe I'm too positive about this whole situation, but that's my version of what will happen.

Tbh I think the kid will ask for a smartphone, but we will see.

 

[Concept17]

I don't understand Nintendo's approach to the 3DS and the WiiU. They need to be labeled as their own platforms, and not sound like continuations of the old ones. Should have been DS2 with 3d as a feature. Wii2 featuring a new controller.

I also don't understand why they haven't pushed out for software after the surge of cash flow from the last few years. They've had the money, yet their efforts seem minimal.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

For example: A good number of people who has a 3DS brought OoT 3D, but since the userbase is so low, that is not as significant as it should be. The price drop, will improve the sales of good games already on the market like games like Street Fighter and OoT. l

Ocarina of Time sold more than 1 million WW on a basis of 4 millions 3DS. And it is a remake. How is that bad?

 

[Vinci]

I don't understand Nintendo's approach to the 3DS and the WiiU. They need to be labeled as their own platforms, and not sound like continuations of the old ones. Should have been DS2 with 3d as a feature. Wii2 featuring a new controller.

I think they've an uphill battle on cementing this in with the 3DS, but the Wii U will likely benefit from this snafu. Still should've been called Wii 2, though.

 

[watershed]

I don't see how 3ds sales won't skyrocket right away. It's the same price as a DSi, and it's backwards compatible. The DSi sells 300-500k a month in the US. You'd have to be brain dead to buy one over a 3DS now.

Maybe you're a parent who thinks the 3ds will melt your child's eyes? I think there is a lot of market confusion that is holding the 3ds back regardless of price. Having said that, with this price cut Nintendo just made the 3ds the affordable, premium ds model so if should start selling like hot cakes.

 

[Majine]

It has already begun.

Geez, even the companies themselves are using the term "Next gen" now. You brought this on us!

 

[rpmurphy]

Oh you mean the numbers that have shown over the last 3 years sales of software and hardware for handhelds continue to fall flat as smartphone growth has exploded. Those numbers?

I think you may be conflating correlation with causation. Look at the hardware sales shown in OP's here and here. Do you believe that had the smartphone boom not occurred, that these systems would not have seen a downturn starting around 2008/2009 even after 4 years on the market?

 

[Noirulus]

If the 3DS doesn't recover and they decided to abandon it.. could that mean the resurrection of the GameBoy?

A gameboy with 3DS-esque graphics without the 3D at $100 and god tier 3rd party support....

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I don't understand Nintendo's approach to the 3DS and the WiiU. They need to be labeled as their own platforms, and not sound like continuations of the old ones. Should have been DS2 with 3d as a feature. Wii2 featuring a new controller.

I also don't understand why they haven't pushed out for software after the surge of cash flow from the last few years. They've had the money, yet their efforts seem minimal.

They hoped to use the fact of DS and Wii are recognized brands from the general public as springboard for their successors.

Like NES -> SNES. Like Famicom -> Super Famicom. Like GameBoy -> Gameboy Color -> Gameboy Advance.

This is historically not a bad move at all. A complete unknown system can't be spread so fast as a system already known from a previous product. 3DS has much bigger problems other than that: that's why it doesn't sell.

 

[Dabanton]

The DS sold 386k in June NPD.

The DS is a known quantity, is cheap, has a ridiculously good back catalogue and doesn't have 3D forced into the system of course it's still going to do well and it will still do well no matter how much Nintendo tries to kill it.

 

[Always-honest]

Lol. Oh you.

It does sound like they lost faith in the 3ds. Maybe they even found a successor

 

[upandaway]

I don't get it. Just release NSMB 2.

I don't get why 3DLand gets higher priority.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

The problem with that 3DS advert is that it's not at all targeting their previous demographic - it looks like a PSP/PS3 ad. Which is good to differentiate it from the DS, but it's not going to help them sell units, especially with the Vita breathing down it's neck

 

[Vinci]

They hoped to use the fact of DS and Wii are recognized brands from the general public as springboard for their successors.

Like NES -> SNES. Like Famicom -> Super Famicom. Like GameBoy -> Gameboy Color -> Gameboy Advance.

This is historically not a bad move at all. A complete unknown system can't be spread so fast as a system already known from a previous product. 3DS has much bigger problems other than that: that's why it doesn't sell.

The Wii says hi.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

It's just an example of a game designer allowed to do stuff unchallenged because he made something cool in the past. In every Iwata Asks the topic is always Miyamoto even when he's not around, they're talking about Miyamoto. The guy is a legend obviously but he's still just a man who can make mistakes from time to time but when no one dares to say: "Hey Miyamoto this here idea isn't your best maybe we should do something else" it all goes down the drain pretty fast.

Well Iwata Asks are company PR. They contain some cool Nintendo information here and there, and introduce the guys behind the scenes. But they are still PR. Iwata is technically selling this game to you. Iwata is technically selling all EAD games as Miyamoto games. Thus his reference will be in every game. Time Magazine will not have Eiji Aonuma or Hideki Konno on the cover until Mr. Miyamoto retires. But they will have the figurehead we all know.

But our argument here is that theoretically Mr. Miyamoto may have too much influence on business practicality? You can't really accuse any other designer of the same because no one has the same notoriety and position.

 

[watershed]

Haha, not very subtle either.

"This is not DS, this is 3DS"

The whole commercial looks kinda cheap and corny though. Is it a toy? Is it a gadget? Nintendo's marketing department rarely impresses me.

You have to remember this a Nintendo product not an apple product or the latest tablet. The 3ds appeals or is trying to appeal to a wide consumer base that skews younger than the tech enthusiast crowd. I don't think any kid or parent who sees that commercial will be confused as to whether or not its a new Nintendo portable gaming device. Also I think Nintendo's marketing (prior to the 3ds) succeeds by not impressing gamers like us, for the most part they're not designed to.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

The DS is a known quantity, is cheap, has a ridiculously good back catalogue and doesn't have 3D forced into the system of course it's still going to do well and it will still do well no matter how much Nintendo tries to kill it.

Even Wii forced players to use something completely different. And we know what happened. I really don't understand why people dismiss so strongly the only factor that makes the 3DS different and innovative.

 

[Mael]

Are you enjoying Wii Music 2? I

Nope but I really did like WiiSport Resort while I'm still waiting for Metroid 25th anniversary projects.

Just my opinion there. I think very low of Wii Music as $49.99 software. Metroid: Other M is like Zelda 2. Black sheep. Some love it. Some hate it. I love both.

Comparing Other M to Zelda 2 is laughable to the extreme, Zelda 2 had excellent market reception. It sold fairly well and it's only recently that it's been seen as the black sheep.
Seriously it sold at least 8 times better on NES with a vastly reduced market on a smaller userbase than Other M on Wii.
It's not comparable AT ALL.

We are not leaving Miyamoto out of the loop because this discussion is about 3DS dismal launch. Mr. Miyamoto manages the teams who developed Nintendogs+Cats, Steel Diver, and Zelda: Ocarina of time 3D. I do not personally blame Mr. Miyamoto for anything but it is more of a theoretical argument of why blame Iwata and overlook Mr. Miyamoto if you want to play the blame game.

On this we can fully agree (more of a remark about how you said on the other thread that Sakamoto should not be too blamed because he also made successful products).

Sakamoto has not produced a 3DS game yet. But he did create Rhythm Tengoku and Tomodachi Collection on the DS.

And while I'm still waiting to see what made Tomodachi collection so appealing (I'm basically saying I won't discuss it, I don't know the product).
I'm fully content in saying that Rhythm Heaven was actually a good thing to do (and an even bigger reason why I'm so angry at Other M turning out how it did), we've still got to see how Rhythm Heaven Wii will perform although the way Nintendo poisoned the well, I wouldn't blame anyone if the game underperformed.

 

[Vinci]

Well Iwata Asks are company PR. They contain some cool Nintendo information here and there, and introduce the guys behind the scenes. But they are still PR. Iwata is technically selling this game to you. Iwata is technically selling all EAD games as Miyamoto games. Thus his reference will be in every game. Time Magazine will not have Eiji Aonuma or Hideki Konno on the cover until Mr. Miyamoto retires. But they will have the figurehead we all know.

But our argument here is that theoretically Mr. Miyamoto may have too much influence on business practicality? You can't really accuse any other designer of the same because no one has the same notoriety and position.

I agree with this. I think it's time for Nintendo to start listening to some of its younger designers, who might also have something worthwhile to say about the direction of the company and its platforms. Of course Miyamoto should be involved - he's proven too significant in the past. But his voice shouldn't be so dominating.

 

[GenericUser]

i tried out a 3ds at my local eletronics store and i would not buy one, even at price tag of 160€ per device. The 3D effect is ridiculous hard to focus at and the technical shortcomings are just to hefty for me to accept.

The fact that nintendo is reducing the price is pleasing, but not convincing. I will observe the development of the 3ds and maybe in 2 or 3 years there will be enough games for me to justify a purchase.

 

[lwilliams3]

Ocarina of Time sold more than 1 million WW on a basis of 4 millions 3DS. And it is a remake. How is that bad?

I didn't say it was bad, but 25% of a userbase of 8+ million will be better than 25% of 4 million. In the US, the userbase is not even a million yet. The boost in sales from the price drop will help increase the sales of OoT even more.

 

[U2NUMB]

Good read, very interesting.

So let me throw this out there. It is understandable that people are getting DS and 3DS mixed up and the average person might not see a difference based on name and so forth.

How much of a chance will the name Wii U have the same issue when it comes out next year? Will people just assume its a Wii with something tacked on?

I wonder if they would be better off going with Wii 2 or something that makes it very obvious it is the next gen version of the previous system.

Just thinking out loud here.

 

[orioto]

Give me some examples. I would wager that many of them are more iterative of PC processes or utilize the internet in some fashion. The internet, BTW, is an innovation - and a very good one.

Hm innovative games on ps360 i would say lots of indy games, physics oriented games, lots of new game mechanics etc.. I don't see innovation as something new you do with your hand.. I prefer pertinent progression in game design in general you know.. Like cool new rpg systems and all that, innovation is everywhere and cool ideas are everywhere. Sound shape ? Pixel junk shooter ? Braid ? Block that matters ?

On what data do you base the comment that it doesn't work anymore and 'clearly' at that?

Well, on what happens those days with 3ds ??

 

[Cygnus X-1]

The Wii says hi.

Of course: Nintendo could not use anything as springboard as the Gamecube failed miserably. They had to make something brand new. You are comparing two systems having two completely different situations.

I also agree that something completely new once again would have been better, but use a 90 million system as factor for your successor is not a bad move.

 

[Mael]

Well Iwata Asks are company PR. They contain some cool Nintendo information here and there, and introduce the guys behind the scenes. But they are still PR. Iwata is technically selling this game to you. Iwata is technically selling all EAD games as Miyamoto games. Thus his reference will be in every game. Time Magazine will not have Eiji Aonuma or Hideki Konno on the cover until Mr. Miyamoto retires. But they will have the figurehead we all know.

But our argument here is that theoretically Mr. Miyamoto may have too much influence on business practicality? You can't really accuse any other designer of the same because no one has the same notoriety and position.

Well it's true that Miyamoto has been put in a position where he may hold too much power, but it's not exactly a bad thing either. I mean he's in that position for a long time and anyone else at his position would not have been questionned anyway.

But it's true that some decisions are baffling like

I don't get it. Just release NSMB 2.

I don't get why 3DLand gets higher priority.

this, really.
And also I hope the guy responsible for no new Mario Bros between Mario World and NSMB had been shot and fired (as in literally).

 

[HeySeuss]

Anybody know if there were any Wii U questions asked during this q/a?

 

[Barrett2]

I don't get this argument every console in history gets shitty gamesfor example wii got carnival games ds go petz ps3 got move heroes and etc. It is standard to get shitty shovelware it is up to the consumers to decide what's worth their money and many people see games like Mario worth full price.

I think the distinction here is that unlike in the past, lots of consumer, even very casual consumers, have another device in the home that plays the same games for a fraction of the cost.

When you only had one machine in the home that played N64 games back in the day, it was more difficult to gauge relative value of the software. But when in the same home I can buy Peggle for 99 cents on my phone, or $20 on my DS, the disparity is immediately apparent.

 

[Souldriver]

Good read, very interesting.

So let me throw this out there. It is understandable that people are getting DS and 3DS mixed up and the average person might not see a difference based on name and so forth.

How much of a chance will the name Wii U have the same issue when it comes out next year? Will people just assume its a Wii with something tacked on?

I wonder if they would be better off going with Wii 2 or something that makes it very obvious it is the next gen version of the previous system.

Just thinking out loud here.

I'm sure there have been talks in Nintendo's headquarters about possible names (changes) for the console.

 

[Vinci]

Good read, very interesting.

So let me throw this out there. It is understandable that people are getting DS and 3DS mixed up and the average person might not see a difference based on name and so forth.

How much of a chance will the name Wii U have the same issue when it comes out next year? Will people just assume its a Wii with something tacked on?

I wonder if they would be better off going with Wii 2 or something that makes it very obvious it is the next gen version of the previous system.

Just thinking out loud here.

No, I agree with you. Many of us have been stating that it should be Wii 2 since its announcement. Wii U, especially in a market that has something called U Draw, is just confusing.

 

[Lonely1]

The DS is a known quantity, is cheap, has a ridiculously good back catalogue and doesn't have 3D forced into the system of course it's still going to do well and it will still do well no matter how much Nintendo tries to kill it.

The price difference might. After all, the 3DS can do anything the DSi can and the price difference isn't gigantic now.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I don't get it. Just release NSMB 2.

I don't get why 3DLand gets higher priority.

Was NSMB2 actually announced?

 

[Jokeropia]

You could make that argument, but I wouldn't. The GC was never sold at a loss and Nintendo's got several multi-million sellers on the system. It ended up in third place but I'm sure it was financially successful.

As others have pointed out, the GC was sold at loss for a while and there is absolutely no reason to assume the 3DS won't be financially successful as well. It's not like the GC started out better than the 3DS.

The DS is a known quantity, is cheap, has a ridiculously good back catalogue and doesn't have 3D forced into the system of course it's still going to do well and it will still do well no matter how much Nintendo tries to kill it.

The only point I aimed to make with that statement was that the DS is a dedicated handheld and it still does well.

 

[JosephManderley]

It all comes down to the state of the global economy. People just don't have the money to spend right now. For the first time since I graduated, I can honestly say I have less disposable income than I had 5 years ago. Plenty of other people I know are in the same boat. The strong Yen pretty much forced Nintendo to price the system high in Europe and the US, and it is the reason why they will be making a loss on hardware at the new lower price. Sony are going to have the exact same problem with Vita.

The price cut is a good move, and I think there will be a big sales spike as a result. If only the people who would have bought a DS buy a 3DS instead, and no other sales are gained, 3DS will still see a very nice increase. The timing is perfect. Nintendo needed to cut the price now to get some systems into homes ASAP. No point in bringing out a stream of heavy hitting software this fall if the install base isn't there to take maximum advantage of it.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but doesn't the new price actually make the 3DS cheaper than the PSP now in Japan as well? That is huge.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Ocarina of Time sold more than 1 million WW on a basis of 4 millions 3DS. And it is a remake. How is that bad?

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Good read, very interesting.

So let me throw this out there. It is understandable that people are getting DS and 3DS mixed up and the average person might not see a difference based on name and so forth.

How much of a chance will the name Wii U have the same issue when it comes out next year? Will people just assume its a Wii with something tacked on?

I wonder if they would be better off going with Wii 2 or something that makes it very obvious it is the next gen version of the previous system.

Just thinking out loud here.

Most definitely. It's a marketing disaster waiting to happen, the whole reveal itself confused everyone, and they were using Wii peripherals along with it, very confusing

I expect this 3DS shambles will result in a redesign and rename of Wii U before it's next public revealing.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Anybody know if there were any Wii U questions asked during this q/a?

If you go the link in the OP, Iwata says at the very bottom of the page that it will be posted separately later (when exactly? Dunno).

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

I can blame them for massively misreading the market. Yes, I can. And I will. Nintendo gets a healthy portion of blame for how the Wii turned out market-wise, but it's not their fault 3rd parties were completely dumbfounded by its success.

I said don´t only blame the third party publishers. Key word is only. And yes Nintendo gets most of the blame for not getting enough third party support. Hardware manufacturers should bend over backwards to third party publishers. Sony, and MS did that via money hatting, exclusive deals/DLC etc.... Nintendo did not make any effort at all in that regard. It´s a sad reality, but that is what is happening in the gaming industry.

 

[gkryhewy]

He is not "giving it four months"; strangely alarmist interpretation by the op. He is asking shareholders to wait for the demand response to play out before selling their shares.

 

[loosus]

Yeah, what the hell are they waiting on with another Super Mario Bros. game? That is why I put so much time into the DS and (to a much lesser extent, because it had some broken elements) the Wii.

The only reason Mario 3D Land (or whatever the hell it's called) looks interesting at all to me is that it appears to have some truly significant 2D stuff going on, too, less like the Galaxy games. If it were a full-on Galaxy Mario game, I'd have absolutely no interest in it at all.

 

[GSR]

They should just release mario and pokemon for iphone and rake in the dough

The funny part is that if they really wanted to save their stock they'd do exactly this. Remember when TPC announced that small Pokemon iPhone app? Nintendo's stock jumped big-time, and as soon as they confirmed it was entirely TPC's doing and that they would not do iPhone development, the gain vanished. Investors are in love with the "mobile app" market right now, and it's going to take some very impressive numbers for them to decide the 3DS is worth it.