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Iwata implies he may resign over poor business performance

What annoys me about Iwata is how apathetic he is in concern to third-parties, he's previous statements makes this clear:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/03/04/nintendo-president-talks-revolution-2

"If the next generation platforms are going to create even more gorgeous looking games using further enhanced functionality, and if that next-gen market can still expand the games industry, then I'm afraid that third-parties may not support Nintendo," he said.

Nintendo's president suggested that third party support for Revolution could depend entirely on whether or not publishers find the console appealing. "If we receive the support of the licensees, I believe we will expand third party support," he said. "If our ideas cannot be appealing enough, then we cannot receive third party support."

http://www.gamecubicle.com/news-nintendo_gamecube_famitsu_iwata_interview.htm

Iwata: The GameCube has been well received by the development community, but we don't believe in overwhelming third party support. However, we're certainly talking with more developers about the possibility of working together. Frequently, developers use our platforms solely for their own self-interests, so it's hard to form management relationships. Rather than business to business relationships, we've chosen more personal collaborations such as creator to creator. Capcom's decision to release Biohazard on the GameCube is a direct result of that.

Really, WTF?

No wonder why so many third-parties show the middle finger to Nintendo. I can't see no difference between Iwata and Yamauchi (who people love to hate) in this.
 

JordanN

Banned
Plus, developers are always moaning about Nintendo. They often say they can't compete with Nintendo's own games, which is part of why support is minimal.
Actually, can someone explain this? How does one not compete against this?
mnMp9wv.jpg


I'm sorry, I could make a far better game than this if I was given the money.


Nintendo isn't infallible. If they were, no other system should even exist. So the excuse "can't compete" doesn't make sense.
 
For it to be slightly more powerful than the Durango, it would have had to have been sold at a decent loss, which brings me back to my point.

Plus, developers are always moaning about Nintendo. They often say they can't compete with Nintendo's own games, which is part of why support is minimal.

A lame excuse. They never considered avoiding competition with COD/BF/Halo and GTA/Sandbox games.
 

Hiltz

Member
What annoys me about Iwata is how apathetic he is in concern to third-parties, he's previous statements makes this clear:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/03/04/nintendo-president-talks-revolution-2

http://www.gamecubicle.com/news-nintendo_gamecube_famitsu_iwata_interview.htm

Really, WTF?

No wonder why so many third-parties show the middle finger to Nintendo. I can't see no difference between Iwata and Yamauchi (who people love to hate) in this.

It's very frustrating how naive Iwata can be. We know why Nintendo does what it does in designing its hardware, but willingly jeopardizing third party support to achieve such goals is pretty ridiculous. However, its not just an issue in terms of technical hardware capability, but also in terms of software sales. The Nintendo hardcore audience needs to be more supportive of buying third party games especially if that's the only console they own. While I'm guilty of only buying a few Western third party games, I buy plenty of ones from Japan.
 

SMD

Member
What annoys me about Iwata is how apathetic he is in concern to third-parties, he's previous statements makes this clear:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/03/04/nintendo-president-talks-revolution-2

http://www.gamecubicle.com/news-nintendo_gamecube_famitsu_iwata_interview.htm

Really, WTF?

No wonder why so many third-parties show the middle finger to Nintendo. I can't see no difference between Iwata and Yamauchi (who people love to hate) in this.

Are they? Aren't Nintendo rolling out the red carpet for indies right now?

And what about third parties? It's hardly been great year for gamers when it comes to third party publishers and developers.

I'm not saying that missing out on games like Tomb Raider and Bioshock is actually a good thing. I'm just saying there's a risk/reward with Nintendo having to bridge that gap between them and the third parties and the way things are going, it might not necessarily be worth it for Nintendo in the long run. We still don't know how the next gen will look since Microsoft and Sony aren't locked into concrete plans publicly.
 

royalan

Member
Are they? Aren't Nintendo rolling out the red carpet for indies right now?

And what about third parties? It's hardly been great year for gamers when it comes to third party publishers and developers.

I'm not saying that missing out on games like Tomb Raider and Bioshock is actually a good thing. I'm just saying there's a risk/reward with Nintendo having to bridge that gap between them and the third parties and the way things are going, it might not necessarily be worth it for Nintendo in the long run. We still don't know how the next gen will look since Microsoft and Sony aren't locked into concrete plans publicly.

I wouldn't say finally catching up to the efforts made by the other hardware developers is "rolling out the red carpet."
 

SMD

Member
I wouldn't say finally catching up to the efforts made by the other hardware developers is "rolling out the red carpet."

Free dev kits, bringing Unity to the machine and relaxing almost all restrictions to make it almost risk free to bring your game to the eShop is pretty welcoming.
 

liger05

Member
It's very frustrating how naive Iwata can be. We know why Nintendo does what it does in designing its hardware, but willingly jeopardizing third party support to achieve such goals is pretty ridiculous. However, its not just an issue in terms of technical hardware capability, but also in terms of software sales. The Nintendo hardcore audience needs to be more supportive of buying third party games especially if that's the only console they own. While I'm guilty of only buying a few Western third party games, I buy plenty of ones from Japan.

I think Nintendo may need to cultivate this audience to get them to buy third party games. Maybe if there were Nintendo racers, FPS, etc then third party offerings of these kind of genres wouldn't be ignored by the Nintendo Hardcore.
 

PhantomR

Banned
I wouldn't say finally catching up to the efforts made by the other hardware developers is "rolling out the red carpet."

Are you serious? Self-publishing your titles, free patches, free dev kits, Unity implementation, Javascript implementation, HTML5 implementation, is not "finally catching up".


There's a pretty big indie conference going on in Vancouver, BC today. Sony is there, Nintendo is there. Is Microsoft? lolno.
 

royalan

Member
Are you serious? Self-publishing your titles, free patches, free dev kits, Unity implementation, Javascript implementation, HTML5 implementation, is not "finally catching up".


There's a pretty big indie conference going on in Vancouver, BC today. Sony is there, Nintendo is there. Is Microsoft? lolno.

Its cute that Nintendo has two last gen consoles beat when it comes to catering to indie development, but I don't recall seeing MS and Sony play their hands when it comes to how they plan to support indies next gen.

And if the rumors are true that Durango will basically be running the full windows 8 kernel, it could very well be the most indie friendly console to start out with.

Not trying to completely knock their efforts, but Ninty has to do more than just provide the infrastructure. Just look at RIM. They created one of the most pain free infrastructures to develop for with their Cascades framework, and they're desperate for app support.

That's not stopping the indie community from pretty much paying them dust.
 

Cheerilee

Member
NES, GB, GBA, SNES, N64, GC were all sold at a loss. Sony copied Nintendo's scheme with ALL of their consoles as did MS.

Nintendo basically invented the model everyone operates. The theory is that over time, the cost of producing the console falls as you re engineer it and make it more efficient etc.

MS had to dump the OG XBOX because they didn't factor this in because they didn't understand who the japanese worked and it was impossible to reduce their costs over time as Nvidea wouldn't reduce the cost of their gfx cards.

That's incorrect.

The Atari 2600 created an era where consoles had to be sold at a profit. Third parties like Activision emerged, and Atari couldn't stop them from making games for the system, nor could they earn money from those games, but more games being available pushed more hardware, which meant more hardware profit for Atari, so Atari didn't entirely hate having competition on their own system.

Nintendo invented the lockout chip, and charged third parties to get past it. Nintendo realized that software profits were bigger than hardware profits, so they brought the "razor blade" model to videogames and sold the NES at a break-even price. This meant that any console which did not have a lockout chip was unable to compete with Nintendo on price.

The SNES and Genesis were also break-even consoles that earned money from games. That's why Sega made so much money with the Genesis, their only real success.

When Sony arrived on the scene, they observed that you can make ~$10 per-game in software royalties, and that the "attach rate" or "tie ratio" on any moderately successful console was easily more than 5:1. That roughly means you can make more than $50 in software sales for every unit of hardware you sell. So Sony concluded that an aggressive console could sell for at least $50 below-cost. Sony took Nintendo's idea to the next level.

Nintendo shouted "Madness!" and stuck with carts instead of CDs in the N64, that way they could compete with the PSX on hardware price (a CD drive would've added at least $50 to the price of the N64). The PSX sold massive numbers, and had an attach rate somewhere between 10:1 and 15:1. Sony lost $50 per-unit on hardware, but they made between $100-150 in software for every unit sold, so they were laughing. Sega tried to compete with Sony's pricing, but didn't sell as much as Sony (neither games nor hardware).

The GameCube was again sold at a break-even price. It apparently never exceeded being sold at a $9 loss, and spent most of the time in the black, even when it was priced at $99, thanks to dropping manufacturing costs (something GameCube was very much designed to do). The PS2 was again a below-cost console, and it again sold massive numbers with something like a 15:1 attach rate. Sony was rolling in money, but "no risk + Nintendo loyalists" meant that Nintendo could survive the console war indefinitely.

The Wii wasn't a break even console, Iwata pushed it to earn $50-100 per-unit, and it's attach rate was terrible because of all the casuals bringing down the average, but still, it was a massive victory. Who cares if the casual gamer doesn't contribute to the attach rate if you pocketed an extra $100 when you sold them the system?

Sony on the other hand got over-aggressive and sold the PS3 at a reckless $100 loss, expecting a 15:1 attach rate to save them, and that never materialized. Xbox 360 (priced similarly aggressively) had a better attach rate than PS3.

The 3DS hardware, like the Wii, was priced to earn a massive profit, but when it became clear that it wasn't selling, Iwata slashed a massive $100 from it's price, pushing it into a below-cost position. An act which saved the 3DS, but removed it as a support pillar for Nintendo to rely on.

The WiiU's controller is ridiculously expensive, so Iwata launched the console at a loss. It's dead in the water, so people are calling for it to get a $100 price cut, but the WiiU's attach rate is currently a pathetic 4:1, and can nowhere near justify losing $150 per-unit, which would be a failure of proportions so epic it would make the PS3 blush. Nevermind the fact that this is Nintendo we're talking about, and they're already terrified of a $50 per-unit loss.


Edit: The GameCube was a failure. That ship sank. But the GameCube knew how to swim, so it's failure, while depressing, didn't really hurt all that much. The WiiU is sinking faster than the GameCube, and it can't swim. The only way the WiiU can survive is if it wins. But the only way it can win is for it to drink poison. That's not a good strategic position.
 

royalan

Member
The WiiU's controller is ridiculously expensive, so Iwata launched the console at a loss. It's dead in the water, so people are calling for it to get a $100 price cut, but the WiiU's attach rate is currently a pathetic 4:1, and can nowhere near justify losing $150 per-unit, which would be a failure of proportions so epic it would make the PS3 blush. Nevermind the fact that this is Nintendo we're talking about, and they're already terrified of a $50 per-unit loss.


Edit: The GameCube was a failure. That ship sank. But the GameCube knew how to swim, so it's failure, while depressing, didn't really hurt all that much. The WiiU is sinking faster than the GameCube, and it can't swim. The only way the WiiU can survive is if it wins. But the only way it can win is for it to drink poison. That's not a good strategic position.

Devestating truth bombs.

This part of the post addresses the two biggest arguments loyalists rely on to excuse the Wii U. Nintendo CAN'T cut the price of the Wii U like they did with the 3DS because the Wii U's price isn't inflated like the 3DS originally was.
Although I do think that Nintendo will ultimately cave and slash the price. It's becoming their only option.

Nor can Nintendo settle with Wii U being a "Gamecube-like success" because the Gamecube was technically a failure.

Nintendo really is caught between a rock and a hard place here.

Another misstep? Nintendo's decision to go with all customized chips means it might take a much longer time before manufacturing costs go down enough for Nintendo to slash the price without taking a massive hit per system sold.
 
You think Nintendo shareholders will be happy going from a 100 million unit selling console to a 20-25 unit selling console in one generation? Even if it's profitable like the GC was?
 

Sandfox

Member
You think Nintendo shareholders will be happy going from a 100 million unit selling console to a 20-25 unit selling console in one generation? Even if it's profitable like the GC was?

All they care about is money so they probably won't be happy but it depends on how much money they are making.
 
All they care about is money so they probably won't be happy but it depends on how much money they are making.

They care about growth. Investors want to be ensured that their investment will be secure and their returns will continue to rise.

Nintendo dropping from 100 million units -> 25 million units in the console sphere is not indicative of that.
 
All they care about is money so they probably won't be happy but it depends on how much money they are making.

A 25 million console will bring in much, much, much less revenue than a 100 million console. Especially when the 100 million console is being sold at a per unit profit and the 25 million one isn't.
 
A 25 million console will bring in much, much, much less revenue than a 100 million console. Especially when the 100 million console is being sold at a per unit profit and the 25 million one isn't.

And royalty profits (a definite factor in console profitability) also plunge with third-parties abandoning the system.

The fewer games that get released for a console = smaller profits for Nintendo.
 
Kinda makes the third party option grow stronger.

The irony. Nintendo creates a console that kicks them out of the industry.

I dont think they'll go third party, but I do think they will give strong consideration to basically merging their handheld and console business into one, tablet style device. The other big issues is resources. Now that the 3DS is a legitimate console that requires more time and money to develop for (as opposed to the GBA, for example, which was basically an SNES) it's becoming increasingly apparent that Nintendo cannot manage to make games for two different platforms.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Kinda makes the third party option grow stronger.

The irony. Nintendo creates a console that kicks them out of the industry.

Just like Sega.

But really if not trying one more gen I'm more entertaining them to go full handheld since it's clear that it's still something they profit off of.
 

JordanN

Banned
I dont think they'll go third party, but I do think they will give strong consideration to basically merging their handheld and console business into one, tablet style device. The other big issues is resources. Now that the 3DS is a legitimate console that requires more time and money to develop for (as opposed to the GBA, for example, which was basically an SNES) it's becoming increasingly apparent that Nintendo cannot manage to make games for two different platforms.
That idea proposes a risk. If that device fails, they're left with nothing.

Although, when I bring up third party it relates to home consoles. Their handhelds will still exist but their console output would mean relying on Microsoft/Sony's machines (also PC I guess).

I'm not wishing for this to happen but I wont feel sorry knowing why it did.
 

BD1

Banned
I think Nintendo may need to cultivate this audience to get them to buy third party games. Maybe if there were Nintendo racers, FPS, etc then third party offerings of these kind of genres wouldn't be ignored by the Nintendo Hardcore.

I agree with this. Nintendo used to invest in games designed for its Western audience. They published sports games, published racers, published FPS'. Post-GameCube, they went all in on developing games that appeal to all genders, ages and regions. However, they continue to develop and release games for the Japanese market, but have basically gutted their Western support.

Worked great for Wii, but is hurting them big time on Wii U.
 
The 3DS hardware, like the Wii, was priced to earn a massive profit, but when it became clear that it wasn't selling, Iwata slashed a massive $100 from it's price, pushing it into a below-cost position. An act which saved the 3DS, but removed it as a support pillar for Nintendo to rely on.

The WiiU's controller is ridiculously expensive, so Iwata launched the console at a loss. It's dead in the water, so people are calling for it to get a $100 price cut, but the WiiU's attach rate is currently a pathetic 4:1, and can nowhere near justify losing $150 per-unit, which would be a failure of proportions so epic it would make the PS3 blush. Nevermind the fact that this is Nintendo we're talking about, and they're already terrified of a $50 per-unit loss.

You made a great analysis of the situation Nintendo have reached under Iwata's decisions. If Nintendo wants to keep Wii U alive at this point, there's no other way but to cut the price and this will affect badly it's profits. It's a risky Nintendo must take from now on, they can't play it safe at this point anymore.

I agree with this. Nintendo used to invest in games designed for its Western audience. They published sports games, published racers, published FPS'. Post-GameCube, they went all in on developing games that appeal to all genders, ages and regions. However, they continue to develop and release games for the Japanese market, but have basically gutted their Western support.

Worked great for Wii, but is hurting them big time on Wii U.

They had these studios before Iwata shut down all Nintendo's western development division. Rare, Left Field, Silicon Knights, Factor 5. They made games for this audience and would be handy at this point.

If they do go handheld only, I don't think I'd mind at all, the last Nintendo developed i was truly excited was Donkey Kong on Wii....and that is coming to 3DS.

What can't they do on handheld that they can on a console?

Go handheld only next gen and then release a tv adapter a year later for the handheld device or gouge money from the hardcore Nintendo fans.

Nintendo going handheld only would be disastrous, both for themselves and for the industry.
 

popeutlal

Member
If they do go handheld only, I don't think I'd mind at all, the last Nintendo developed i was truly excited was Donkey Kong on Wii....and that is coming to 3DS.

What can't they do on handheld that they can on a console?

Go handheld only next gen and then release a tv adapter a year later for the handheld device or gouge money from the hardcore Nintendo fans.
 
If they do go handheld only, I don't think I'd mind at all, the last Nintendo developed i was truly excited was Donkey Kong on Wii....and that is coming to 3DS.

What can't they do on handheld that they can on a console?

Go handheld only next gen and then release a tv adapter a year later for the handheld device.

That's the thing...for Nintendo and their development practices----nothing.

We've gotten 3D Zelda, 3D Mario Kart, 3D Mario Party, 3D Mario Tennis....the sky is the limit.

Yeah you can't get fancy graphics on the 3DS, but Nintendo isn't known for their fancy graphics. They're known for their GameCube-level graphics. And 3DS can deliver those.
 
I'd like to see Nintendo give it one more go with a home console - all out this time. No cutting corners. Even on stuff like the plastic. Make it "nice" like an Apple device. If the product is slick enough, people will plop down the cash. As long as the price isn't too insane.
 

Oersted

Member
Its cute that Nintendo has two last gen consoles beat when it comes to catering to indie development, but I don't recall seeing MS and Sony play their hands when it comes to how they plan to support indies next gen.

And if the rumors are true that Durango will basically be running the full windows 8 kernel, it could very well be the most indie friendly console to start out with.

Its cute that you deny comparisons between existing consoles (based on what?), and in the same time in complete favor of comparing existing hardware to vaporware.
 
Its cute that Nintendo has two last gen consoles beat when it comes to catering to indie development, but I don't recall seeing MS and Sony play their hands when it comes to how they plan to support indies next gen.

And if the rumors are true that Durango will basically be running the full windows 8 kernel, it could very well be the most indie friendly console to start out with.

Not trying to completely knock their efforts, but Ninty has to do more than just provide the infrastructure. Just look at RIM. They created one of the most pain free infrastructures to develop for with their Cascades framework, and they're desperate for app support.

That's not stopping the indie community from pretty much paying them dust.

It's easy when you talk in generalities and don't give any specifics but what more do you think Nintendo can do? You didn't mention anything. They're providing a specially developed Unity Pro and other middleware for FREE with every dev kit. They're going speaking at conferences to indies. At GDC they even let any indie devs drop their email to get in contact with them. They're giving some indies free dev kits under certain conditions! What more do you suggest them doing since you think that isn't enough?

Not to mention I can't help but roll my eyes a bit when your argument is basically "Sony and MS will be better. Yeah I have no details but they will just because."
 

royalan

Member
I really don't understand this Nintendo console/handheld hybrid idea.

I mean, I get where you guys are coming from, but it still doesn't make any sense.

For one, it's a shitty idea. Wii U is already seen as a late attempt to latch onto the tablet craze. A hybrid console would just be that x100. Not only that, but it would thrust Nintendo head first into competing with the big players in the tablet industry, and trust me, Nintendo's not ready for that. They don't have the infrastructure, they don't have the dev support, and they don't move nearly as quickly as they would have to in order to remain competitive in an industry where the big boys refresh their product lines almost yearly. Nintendo would get eaten alive and end up with a product that could pretty much only appeal to their already shrinking audience of loyalists.

Second, Nintendo's big problem right now is lack of diversification. This is a company that desperately needs to grow and expand and become less conservative. They have the capital and infrastructure to make that happen. And it goes beyond just competing with Sony and Microsoft: right now, Nintendo isn't even big enough to operate they way they want to.

The answer is calculated growth, not consolidation. That LAST thing Nintendo needs to do is consolidate their product lines into one make-or-break device. Dumbest idea I've ever heard.
 
Incredible, i finally saw a page in a Nintendo related topic with most arguments based on reality and not poluted with partisan sensaionalistic BS. No way it's going to last.

Very entertaining post Cheerilee.
It's easy when you talk in generalities and don't give any specifics but what more do you think Nintendo can do? You didn't mention anything. They're providing a specially developed Unity Pro and other middleware for FREE with every dev kit. They're going speaking at conferences to indies. At GDC they even let any indie devs drop their email to get in contact with them. They're giving some indies free dev kits under certain conditions! What more do you suggest them doing since you think that isn't enough?

Not to mention I can't help but roll my eyes a bit when your argument is basically "Sony and MS will be better. Yeah I have no details but they will just because."
Edit: there goes the dream xD
I really don't understand this Nintendo console/handheld hybrid idea.

I mean, I get where you guys are coming from, but it still doesn't make any sense.

For one, it's a shitty idea. Wii U is already seen as a late attempt to latch onto the tablet craze. A hybrid console would just be that x100. Not only that, but it would thrust Nintendo head first into competing with the big players in the tablet industry, and trust me, Nintendo's not ready for that. They don't have the infrastructure, they don't have the dev support, and they don't move nearly as quickly as they would have to in order to remain competitive in an industry where the big boys refresh their product lines almost yearly. Nintendo would get eaten alive and end up with a product that could pretty much only appeal to their already shrinking audience of loyalists.

Second, Nintendo's big problem right now is lack of diversification. This is a company that desperately needs to grow and expand and become less conservative. They have the capital and infrastructure to make that happen. And it goes beyond just competing with Sony and Microsoft: right now, Nintendo isn't even big enough to operate they way they want to.
The answer is calculated growth, not consolidation. That LAST thing Nintendo needs to do is consolidate their product lines into one make-or-break device. Dumbest idea I've ever heard.
Well a big problem Nintendo had once it made the transition to 3D graphics was the complexity of development. This made it hard for them to support two different platforms. The hybrid would solve that problem at least. Don't understand why you are bringing tablets in to the disscussion, going by that logic Nintendo might as well exit hanheld development.

Another positive for the the Hybrid is that it could offer something the competition is not offering for now. A problem with the hypotethical hybrid console is release time. When will the tech be good enough at a reasonable price and what is the perfect time for release such device? How far will cloud gaming progress near the end of the new cycle?

Nintendo should have sticked with the 3DS and Wii for some more years until they had something more interesting than the Wii U.
 

royalan

Member
It's easy when you talk in generalities and don't give any specifics but what more do you think Nintendo can do? You didn't mention anything. They're providing a specially developed Unity Pro and other middleware for FREE with every dev kit. They're going speaking at conferences to indies. At GDC they even let any indie devs drop their email to get in contact with them. They're giving some indies free dev kits under certain conditions! What more do you suggest them doing since you think that isn't enough?

Not to mention I can't help but roll my eyes a bit when your argument is basically "Sony and MS will be better. Yeah I have no details but they will just because."

"MS and Sony will be better" isn't my argument argument.

My argument is that the Wii U isn't going to be saved as some sort of Indie bohemia if it's a tanking console in pretty much every other respect, which it currently is. Nintendo needs to do right by Wii U in every area to entice indie devs, because MS and Sony aren't just going to sit idly by, ESPECIALLY if it starts to look like Nintendo's on to something.

Right now it seems like people are making peace with the fact that Wii U is coming up short because "Oh, well, Indies will flock to the console and save it." And, well, that idea is completely ridiculous.

MS and Sony MIGHT be better, but not by pure virtue of the fact that they're MS and Sony, but because they seems to be making more calculated efforts to make their consoles an all-around success, which will likely make their ecosystems more appealing to indie devs.
 

BD1

Banned
They had these studios before Iwata shut down all Nintendo's western development division. Rare, Left Field, Silicon Knights, Factor 5. They made games for this audience and would be handy at this point.

Very true. It's not a black-and-white situation, though. There was a perfect storm happening at Nintendo 10 years ago. Yamuchi was retiring. Iwata, at that point the global director of software planning, was a rising rock star hand picked to take over. Howard Lincoln and Minoru Arakawa, the dynamic duo with autonomy to run NoA, we're retiring. Reggie was a great marketer and an Internet sensation.

The studios you listed had developed software that did nothing to move the needle for GameCube, and in some cases, probably booked big losses for Nintendo. In Japan, Nintendo goes all-in on "Blue Ocean" expanded-audience software. So newly minted Iwata, and the rest of the NCL General Managers, pull the plug on "western" development and start the Wii phenomon.

It was a brilliant strategy at the time, so you can't really say it was a mistake. They made lots and lots of money. It's definitely hurt them right now.
 

big youth

Member
how are Sony and Microsoft "making more calculated efforts to make their consoles an all-around success?" by including a bluray player and charging more per unit? That's a tradeoff at best.
 

Snakeyes

Member
I really don't understand this Nintendo console/handheld hybrid idea.

I mean, I get where you guys are coming from, but it still doesn't make any sense.

For one, it's a shitty idea. Wii U is already seen as a late attempt to latch onto the tablet craze. A hybrid console would just be that x100. Not only that, but it would thrust Nintendo head first into competing with the big players in the tablet industry, and trust me, Nintendo's not ready for that. They don't have the infrastructure, they don't have the dev support, and they don't move nearly as quickly as they would have to in order to remain competitive in an industry where the big boys refresh their product lines almost yearly. Nintendo would get eaten alive and end up with a product that could pretty much only appeal to their already shrinking audience of loyalists.

Second, Nintendo's big problem right now is lack of diversification. This is a company that desperately needs to grow and expand and become less conservative. They have the capital and infrastructure to make that happen. And it goes beyond just competing with Sony and Microsoft: right now, Nintendo isn't even big enough to operate they way they want to.

The answer is calculated growth, not consolidation. That LAST thing Nintendo needs to do is consolidate their product lines into one make-or-break device. Dumbest idea I've ever heard.

Well said.

Here's the thing; the appeal of Nintendo's handhelds is that they're cheap, relatively durable and offer a wide selection of mid-tier software that's tailor-made for a pick-up-and-play experience. Their consoles, low-powered as they may be, are geared towards more high-end, immersive gameplay.

By trying to cram enough tech in the hybrid to satisfy the console crowd, you'll end up pushing the system's price dangerously close to tablet (and maybe even console) territory and when the average buyer has to decide between the two, the more versatile tablet (or much more powerful console) will win every single time. There's also no guarantee that people who buy Nintendo handhelds for the aforementioned reasons will fork over an extra $50-$100 bucks for features they don't necessarily want or need.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it seems like a tough sell.
 

big youth

Member
I really don't understand this Nintendo console/handheld hybrid idea.

I mean, I get where you guys are coming from, but it still doesn't make any sense.

For one, it's a shitty idea. Wii U is already seen as a late attempt to latch onto the tablet craze. A hybrid console would just be that x100. Not only that, but it would thrust Nintendo head first into competing with the big players in the tablet industry, and trust me, Nintendo's not ready for that. They don't have the infrastructure, they don't have the dev support, and they don't move nearly as quickly as they would have to in order to remain competitive in an industry where the big boys refresh their product lines almost yearly. Nintendo would get eaten alive and end up with a product that could pretty much only appeal to their already shrinking audience of loyalists.

Second, Nintendo's big problem right now is lack of diversification. This is a company that desperately needs to grow and expand and become less conservative. They have the capital and infrastructure to make that happen. And it goes beyond just competing with Sony and Microsoft: right now, Nintendo isn't even big enough to operate they way they want to.

The answer is calculated growth, not consolidation. That LAST thing Nintendo needs to do is consolidate their product lines into one make-or-break device. Dumbest idea I've ever heard.

Do you have any examples of how Nintendo could diversify?

As for calculated growth, that's exactly what they've been doing since the Wii took off. They've hired hundreds of employes, created new development teams, increased publishing duties, and are in the middle of a huge restructure.
 

Hsieh

Member
hmm looks like they might miss the target as per "analysts" and post a loss for the year. Wednesday should be very interesting indeed

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...ofit-target-as-wii-u-founders.html?cmpid=yhoo

That article is wrong, if you go back to the very first post in this thread, Nintendo's forecast was a loss of 20 billion yen this fiscal year. If Nintendo lost 18 billion yen, they're actually ahead of forecasts by 2 billion yen. The 100 billion yen figure was for the next fiscal year, which would be ending March 31, 2014.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I really don't understand this Nintendo console/handheld hybrid idea.

I mean, I get where you guys are coming from, but it still doesn't make any sense.

For one, it's a shitty idea. Wii U is already seen as a late attempt to latch onto the tablet craze. A hybrid console would just be that x100. Not only that, but it would thrust Nintendo head first into competing with the big players in the tablet industry, and trust me, Nintendo's not ready for that. They don't have the infrastructure, they don't have the dev support, and they don't move nearly as quickly as they would have to in order to remain competitive in an industry where the big boys refresh their product lines almost yearly. Nintendo would get eaten alive and end up with a product that could pretty much only appeal to their already shrinking audience of loyalists.

Second, Nintendo's big problem right now is lack of diversification. This is a company that desperately needs to grow and expand and become less conservative. They have the capital and infrastructure to make that happen. And it goes beyond just competing with Sony and Microsoft: right now, Nintendo isn't even big enough to operate they way they want to.

The answer is calculated growth, not consolidation. That LAST thing Nintendo needs to do is consolidate their product lines into one make-or-break device. Dumbest idea I've ever heard.

I think you're missing the point. It's not about turning the system into a tablet. Imagine having a reasonably powerful 3DS-like portable that you could dock and play on your TV with a Bluetooth controller. You could use other BT accessories like the balance board and Wii remotes for active/fitness type games that wouldn't work as well while holding the system. By the nature of the device you could play it while you're out, then hook it up to the TV and keep playing when you get home.

It wouldn't be competing with tablets and phones any more than the 3DS is now, if anything even less. And it's not like the console market is safe either, I think we're going to see the beginning of a big decline in that with this next generation. The WiiU's sales woes are just the beginning.

But hey, I tend to be wrong a hell of a lot more often than I'm right, to the point I make GAF's favorite Pachter look like a guy you would want to bet money on. So everything I've said here is probably the opposite of what will actually happen.
 

jcm

Member
i thought iwata said he was going to make the 100B yen target next year, the article makes it seem like that target was this year?

The confusion is probably because the FY stared 3 weeks ago. So Iwata's forecast of "100B next year" is now this year, and the analysts think they'll earn only 70B, so they will miss by 30B. The earnings report this week is for last year, and the analysts think they will lose 19B, slightly better than the 20B loss Nintendo forecast.
 

AzaK

Member
It's very frustrating how naive Iwata can be. We know why Nintendo does what it does in designing its hardware, but willingly jeopardizing third party support to achieve such goals is pretty ridiculous. However, its not just an issue in terms of technical hardware capability, but also in terms of software sales. The Nintendo hardcore audience needs to be more supportive of buying third party games especially if that's the only console they own. While I'm guilty of only buying a few Western third party games, I buy plenty of ones from Japan.

This is why I think Nintendo's aim is not to be a great third party machine, but a Nintendo machine with just enough to keep people from abandoning it for another.
 
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