grimshawish
Banned
Sorry. You've not actually told me the benefits I am oh so ignorant of.
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Iwata talks Next Gen consoles, finds Cloud Gaming strange
- Thread starter Blablurn
- Start date
Sorry. You've not actually told me the benefits I am oh so ignorant of.
Nexus Zero
Member
Instant play. There you go, one solitary benefit that renders your statement invalid.
Cloud gaming would actually work really well with Japan's advanced internet infrastructure and hyper dense population, but yeah I agree. If there's one thing I hate in video games it's losing control, and having even delayed input between switching options in a menu would piss me off to no end. Internet just isn't fast enough yet, maybe it will get better but it will take a really long time because bureaucracy and politics loves to fuck around.
metalslimer
Member
This time he is completely correct about this online detail unlike years ago when he stupidly said consumers don't care about online. Maybe in 15 years or so.
Iwata is spot on from a practicality perspective. In my view, the only reason cloud gaming is being pushed as hard as it is is not because it's some natural progression from the current way of doing things, but because businessmen see it as the ultimate form of DRM. I'm no Luddite, and I'll happily embrace good advancements in tech, but cloud gaming is not only complete and utter fucking garbage, it's also pretty sinister.
It's impractical and unworkable (not to mention disgustingly anti-consumer), and I have a feeling that those who pursue it are going to be hurting from their investment in the future.
It's impractical and unworkable (not to mention disgustingly anti-consumer), and I have a feeling that those who pursue it are going to be hurting from their investment in the future.
DragonSworne
Banned
Pokemon on the cloud would be a smart investment.
Prime crotch
Banned
Ligther devices I bet too, slimmer, less power usage etc....
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Being an Internet user of a questionable Internet latency I totally agree.
Nothing1016
Member
Didn't Microsoft say the same exact thing? I'm pretty sure they said it was hard enough just to support a large group of people watching an HD movie or fight online. Now imagine COD with like 30 million monthly users.
In the future cloud gaming could be possible....If it wasn't for throttling, data caps, bandwidth issues, and ISPs would inevitably charge more saying its an "extra" feature.
In the future cloud gaming could be possible....If it wasn't for throttling, data caps, bandwidth issues, and ISPs would inevitably charge more saying its an "extra" feature.
DragonSworne
Banned
You never have to buy expensive consoles. Games are always secure and safe from being damaged or stolen, or lost.
There are a lot of advantages
grimshawish
Banned
Instant play? What?
metalslimer
Member
Wait, are some people actually arguing even if there was no lag there are no benefits to cloud gaming? Because I don't think that's even what Iwata is saying here.
I guess all the other companies not investing in cloud gaming are just scaredy cats as well.
I guess all the other companies not investing in cloud gaming are just scaredy cats as well.
Instant play. To play any game, instantly. Instant demos too. Instant play while a game is also downloading and installing too.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
They were right about dodging 3G,
They were stupid for not implementing accounts
It's a hit and miss
metalslimer
Member
Haha I still remember how 3G was going to be a "gamechanger" for Vita.
Fragamemnon
Member
The Wii U implements "cloud" computing in an actual effective manner for video games-via the local/private cloud to the controller. It's just a first draft of the tech and eventually gaming PCs with multiple cloud targets (a TV, a handheld, etc.) will wreck Nintendo's quaint implementation, but I think he gets that for the consumer scale of console gaming cloud computing is just going to be awkward for at least another few years.
The business is, especially in the big US market, just too dependent on monopolistic market andr regulatory forces that have no interest or incentive for investing so that your cloud solution works better. High-growth emerging markets-where your investors want to see you put up numbers-are in even worse shape in that regards.
The business is, especially in the big US market, just too dependent on monopolistic market andr regulatory forces that have no interest or incentive for investing so that your cloud solution works better. High-growth emerging markets-where your investors want to see you put up numbers-are in even worse shape in that regards.
grimshawish
Banned
...
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People...can't do that?...
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Ok I am confused. Do we mean - buy and jump in? Cause download speeds are increasingly fast; and the idea of instant play is why Cloud Storage is great; not cloud gaming.
Ah okay sure. This is something I think will be allowed through fast download speeds. Especially with demos.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Insert disc.......
I would argue that games are less safe. The second the cloud provider updates their hardware and it's apparent that a "legacy" game is incompatible, it's pulled from sale and from people's libraries. Those of you trumpeting having your games forever on the cloud are in for a nasty shock once these companies decide that updating titles to run on newer server hardware is too expensive. Whilst we've not seen an instance of this yet, OnLive planned for this eventuality and actually put ~1-3 year timers on their full price "PlayPass" games (i.e. "this game may not work a few years from now"). And with everything being rendered on a server in Fuck-Knows-Where, you can kiss game preservation goodbye. Nobody's going to be able to mod the game at home to make it work on a newer OS or via emulators.
I think the advantages of cloud gaming are far outweighed by the negatives. And I think that as technology advances, most (if not all) of cloud gaming's benefits will be mitigated.
Refreshment.01
Member
So you only read my post in the thread and ignored all the benefits already mentioned by many users?
Among the obvious ones:
No portable, no stationary but basically ubiquitous gaming. Any time, anywhere in any device with a basic input set.
Piracy becomes a lot harder.
Infinite payment methods or ways for the consumer to acces content. For example, you could buy 1 hour of "X". Basically arcade style gaming back.
There are some possible downsides. AMong them the "ownership" of software issue. But that ship set sale long time ago with the massive adoption of Digital Distribution, so the "ownership" is f*cked with or withouth cloud gaming.
Yes, the tech is in its infant stages but it is not wise to discounted it now. It should be explored, companies that deep early my get some advantages over the competition, you know like it just happened with online services and how Nintendo is way behind because of them diminish their importance. There's even a post with an interview where Iwata does this. Try to think for yourselves and not what a salesman tells you to think, but partisans never learn it seems.
Which makes his statements rather ironic. One thing is to say the tech is no there yet but outright disscounted is f*cking stupid.
Prime crotch
Banned
Not really, you got to install a demo after downloading, instant play really means, just click pay/download/wahtevs and play
If a company decides that then people pull back from their service and they're fucked. It's all about servicing the customer, if a company can't provide it then I take my shit elsewhere
That's only a solution for certain types of games, as Iwata says. Doesn't work for action games.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
So good they decided to put Blu Ray drives in their next machines....
Oh yes, of course. How is that instant? The second you want to purchase a game, it magically arrives in your hand in disc form? A very unusual skill you have.
metalslimer
Member
Sony does. I'm not sure what investments MS has in this kind of thing, but they certainly aren't blowing a large amount of money on it.
Nexus Zero
Member
I feel condescending in having to explain this, but as you put me up to it: with cloud gaming you can double click on a game and have it play instantly, whereas with other methods of distributions there is at least some measure of waiting.
I'm not saying this is worth the trade offs of IQ and latency, but this is an indisputable benefit.
Where did you get the disc from smartass?
Majmun
Member
Huh? But I'm sure that you'll be able to install the Ps4 action game on the Ps6. Won't have any lag or latency issues after you've installed the game.
Gemüsepizza
Member
What the hell is he talking about? I don't think most Nintendo games have at least decent budgets comparable to Third-Party AAA titles, but they are still earning billions. They are lightyears away from dev costs becoming "a serious issue".
Sir_Crocodile
Member
These are benefits to the distributor & not the consumer really
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
It was partly a joke. Look I get it people want a Netflix/Spotify style service for gaming. Perhaps one day it will happen, I just think with the current infrastructure, both on the server side and client side, it is not very feasible at the moment. In 5 years, who knows.
It's why you will see the PS4 and Nextbox come with Blu Ray drives, neither are confident in it's abilities at the moment.
The startling convenience of discs sure held back streaming movies!
Hint: To play Nintendo games today you have to own a proprietary Nintendo machine and have either go to a store to buy a game or hit a download button and wait. Then some time later you can start playing.
The promise of cloud gaming is to hit a button and be playing within a moment. This is a convenience people are getting more and more used to with other media, and also with games on mobile devices (where you can go from buying to playing quickly).
The promise of cloud gaming is to be able to do this, and without proprietary hardware investment.
Let's debate the challenges of realising that promise - sure - but it's foolish to pretend there's no benefits to such a setup if it can be realised well.
Always-honest
Banned
I agree. I the everlasting search to keep gaming fresh, sometimes new stuff really doesn't do anything to improve the gaming experience. cloudgaming (at this point in time), 3D screens, Kinect.. Hell i even think wired is better than wireless. Especially with headphones.
Thats short-sighted. So are many in this thread. Cloud gaming can only improve, network infrastrucutre is rapidly improving and server build-outs will lead to better latencies and quality. As as Nvidia demonstrated with their GRID solution at GDC, render farms will improve transcoding times over time.
Perhaps a bit optimistic/biased now, but it will be reality eventually.
Games already have significant latency, especially at lower framerates:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-lag-factor-article
Cloud Gaming is truly gaming on demand. It makes gaming incredibly accessible to the masses, lowers/eliminates point of entry costs, makes games platform agnostic, has unrivalled ease of use. The cloud has absolutely revolutionised video and music. Its going to revolutionise games sooner or later and this is another sign that Nintendo far from catching up, is falling further behind on online.
Perhaps a bit optimistic/biased now, but it will be reality eventually.
Games already have significant latency, especially at lower framerates:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-lag-factor-article
Cloud Gaming is truly gaming on demand. It makes gaming incredibly accessible to the masses, lowers/eliminates point of entry costs, makes games platform agnostic, has unrivalled ease of use. The cloud has absolutely revolutionised video and music. Its going to revolutionise games sooner or later and this is another sign that Nintendo far from catching up, is falling further behind on online.
Prime crotch
Banned
And that means what exactly? The new consoles obviously won't be Cloud gaming platforms but how does it invalidate the investiments theyre doing on the area?
I agree, and five years puts it firmly in this console generation, which is why Nintendo should not only be well aware of how they're going to handle it, it should have been seeded in the design of the Wii U.
Ironically, the Wii U is cloud gaming, the gamepad streams video from the console.
Man, come on. Try reading the first post.
The Faceless Master
Member
you would think Nintendo would be all over cloud gaming with all their DRM and region restrictions and upselling new versions of virtual console games.
Refreshment.01
Member
The old "respond the post by parts tactic", so nice. Did you not saw to what statement i was replying to? Someone said there arent any benefits for both consumers and publishers.
And i already explained the "ownership" issue, is in risk with or withouth cloudgaming. But who are we kidding, people defending Iwata statements in absolute terms are driven by an agenda. Hell, i've seen this faction defend low battery life for the Upad, abscence of high speed ports and consumer options as good things. XD
grimshawish
Banned
This makes it more expensive. I still pay for the single device on the Cloud Service.
I also pay for the need to maintain and keep cool what would be millions of units.
Its more efficient for everyone to have their own machine. For businesses and consumers, there are a lot less costs involved.
Now, stream from your own device? I think the internet is a massive block here; but its not an impossible move. Not something that would appeal to me if performance were hit; I'd rather a handheld became my only device and I streamed to the TV when I got home (skipping the ISP and making it a lot more efficiently).
So we are instead moving towards a single consumer gaming device which is portable.
Only if your steaming from a base. Which is more expensive to the consumer and business offering the content. There are other cheaper forms of reducing piracy; and its questionable how pirates suddenly find the money to pay for a more expensive service. More likely they will game by other means.
Better than that! I could simply consume ads between online matches! It would be great; however fast download speeds make it far better both cost wise and experience wise for me to download the content to my own device in my home.
I then process the game from my device. The system still works. Cloud Storage.
I don't see there ever being a time when Cloud Gaming > Cloud Storage.
Home Gaming with Cloud Storage will win this war. It just makes sense at the basic level of things; it runs better; is more reliable; is far far cheaper.
Better internet speeds will make it easier to run Cloud Storage of games. It will never make Cloud Gaming seamless; and no increase in speed will make it cheaper. In fact ISP's will charge customers for the speed investment.
Captain Tuttle
Member
damn
Prime crotch
Banned
Let's not go crazy now, WiiU doesn't have does multi-tenancy
I'm undoubtly guilty of being snarky but we can all agree that Nintendo somehow manages to handle data transfer in an abysmal way, much worse than any competitor. also, I wasn't aiming to prove him wrong because I don't need to. infrastructures are getting better and this is just a waiting game. I'm all for having physical devices in your home but if I open up OnLive (for example) I can run sophisticated games at extremely high setting on a mediocre box with a high degree of fidelity, and I can do it now. If this technology is incorporated in a box supposed to last more than four years, you will be able to use it to deliver a technologically advanced experience to a lot (not "any", not "most") of homes without the need of updating said box. Iwata can't look at the future, I think this is not coming as a surprise to anyone.
This is all really speculation.. none of us know if we like or don't like cloud gaming, because we haven't experienced it done really well yet. Eventually there will be a service that greatly improves upon our notions of what it means to stream games directly, and then we'll have a better idea if it's a worthwhile path for the future or not. It's certainly worth trying to see how viable it really is, that's for sure.
Barry Burton
Member
My thoughts exactly.
Nintendo is very conservative about external infrastructure they cannot control.
They only support 3D where they know you have a supporting display (3DS).
They did not support HD until HDTVs were practically ubiquitous.
Similarly it is not surprising if they would be conservative about something like cloud gaming, until the infrastructure is built out by others and is highly available. The problem, of course, is that they can sometimes find themselves behind the curve. I don't know if cloud gaming will take off in a substantial way before Nintendo approaches it, but it's a risk they take.