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[wolfmat]

It's also OK to have a basic understanding of the way the world works instead of making it up after a few bong hits.

That's like, totally your opinion, man

 

[badrockjones]

For questions about the console life-to-date, I'd say this isn't biased so much as legitimate. The PS3 story right now isn't a success story; that's just a fact. If the same type of questions were being asked midway thru the Xbox's life (what would you have done differently in retrospect, would you have made less a loss leader, can this console overcome its problems?) literally NO ONE would be talking about bias.

And yes, I own a PS3.

 

[gkryhewy]

Major rolleyes at Jaffe. How bush league.

Nice work getting in the UPCOMING HEAVY HITTERS at the end of the post.

 

[braimuge]

Yes- they are close to making a profit already on the hardware. That is the whole reason price has stayed stable.Will they 'beat' the Wii? No way in hell. Not sure at this point, that is the goal.

I just think that people expected Sony to dominate, forgetting the fact that for all the handicaps placed on the PS3, it has been doing very good.

 

[MotherFan]

I only told people to fuck off who were coming down on me...and usually with little emoticons...but not always.

I NEVER get pissed at someone who simply disagrees with me. But I do punch back.

Well, IMO since you are identifiable with your screen name and that you are an important figure in the industry (and a good developer, I don't think anyone is questioning that) that this and the blog may not be the best medium to use the type of language you would. It is one thing to go out drinking with friends and do this, but as a representative for your company (which you are as you are on a popular game site talking about your industry) and game developers I think hurts the image of developers and makes you look immature. In most industries and jobs outbursts like this would be very damning.

I just think it would do alot for the image of the community if these types of posts did not come from the insiders. A civil response with no foul language could have gotten the point across imo.

 

[jaypah]

A professional expected to act...Professionally? What nonsense is this???

:lol he told someone to fuckoff in the same post that he accused them of being immature. not to mention he didn't really make much of a case for maturity when his opening post in the thread concluded with something about sticking pickles up butts. wtf, :lol Jaffe is cool but he does seem kinda spazzy at times. ooops! did i say spazzy? me and my 12 year old behavior....

 

[krypt0nian]

A blog is the perfect place to post exactly how you want. Its not affiliated with any company line, and its your PERSONAL space.

Where do some of you people come from?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Well wait a second- I never said the questions themselves were not valid questions. I also said in my video post that someone writing an article ABOUT the current state of the PS3 was/is fair game (warts and all).

What I am saying is: it seems to me that this article is already written and he is just looking for someone to justify his already decided upon opinion so he can attribute some quotes to someone other than himself.

And it is possible that all the negative questions about Sony came to me and the positive ones came to someone else.

But the PS3 is not dead and it's not a failure and it's not doomed. It may NEVER get out of third place. So in the mind of a narrow minded fanboy who actually cares who 'wins' a stupid ass 'console war', sure, go ahead and think that way. But for a pro journalist- or just an adult with a functioning brain- to think the machine is dead because it is in last place?!? That's pretty bush league.

And so I am FINE with these questions if they had been balanced with questions about what the PS3 had done right (i.e. it's almost profitable even tho it's $200 bucks MORE than 360 and we are in a shit economy...and compared to the 360, when you take the significant price point variance into consideration, it's not getting its ass kicked) and what the 360 has done wrong (red ring; hd-dvd misstep). But they were not. They seemed to me like a 'let's bash the PS3' piece and that is why I was asking if you all agreed or not.

And as I said, I could be wrong in thinking this is biased. But don't knee jerk and assume I am bashing these questions cause I don't want them asked. I repeat: they are some valid questions in there and I would love to read the answers as well to a few of them.

David

ps. and fuck you regarding the 'he's playing the wait till X comes out' card...fuck you man. KZ2, GOW3, UNCHARTED 2, MLB09, HEAVY RAIN, GT...and yes, MY fucking game?!? I don't give a shit if Sony drops behind the fucking Phantom in the 'console war'...but to deny that those are some exciting exclusives is asinine. Just like to deny that Msoft has a killer first party stable with GOW, HALO, FABLE,et all is also asinine. To you I say:

'oooh, hey check that out! It's a pickle that's been dipped in hydrochloric acid! Sweet! Do me a favor and ram that motherfucker right up your ass, k?'

David, you seem like an okay guy, but do you really expect any non gaming enthusiast sites to write positive articles about the PS3 up to this point in its lifetime?

From a marketshare and profitability standpoint, the perspective the non-enthusiast press would be approaching from, it has been a disaster.

"Unbiased" does not mean that everything negative has to be countered with something positive. One can write an unbiased critique, or an unbiased deconstruction of the problems facing a distressed company, such as Sony (or GM, or Bank of America, or whomever).

 

[Brimstone]

Mr. Jaffe you need to realize the impact of Left4Dead.


The PS2 gained a lot from Grand Theft Auto.

The 360 is gaining a lot from Left4Dead.


Opinions of journalists are now shifting. They see the sales data.

 

[gcubed]

not biased, just shit journalism.

The fact that the "interview" questioning reads the same as the Penny Arcade "So Awesome" comic makes me fear for journalism

 

[CrushDance]

So many people here caring about how a big corporation does:lol Even those who don't have any form of investment in the company, brings a tear to my eye.

 

[_Angelus_]

I don't know how some of you people survive day to day.

It's ok to question things.

Start with yourself and you might get what I touched on,Alice.

 

[Gotchaye]

Yes- they are close to making a profit already on the hardware. That is the whole reason price has stayed stable.Will they 'beat' the Wii? No way in hell. Not sure at this point, that is the goal.

Let's be clear on what we're talking about here. They may be close to making a profit on the hardware on a per-unit basis, but that only means that they're selling the thing for what it costs them to produce. That doesn't count all of the other overhead involved in keeping the PS3 going. That is, per-unit profit doesn't imply that the PS3 is making a profit every month, since per-unit profit doesn't consider advertising and other necessities.

But I agree with you that, by the end of the generation, the PS3 will be bringing in money every quarter. However, that's not what's meant when people talk about the machine being profitable. We're talking about lifetime profit, and it's obvious to anyone who looks at Sony's financial reports that that just isn't going to happen. Go ahead and try it - make conservative estimates for the profit due to the PS2 and PSP from about two years before the PS3 launched (you have to consider its R&D costs) to the present. It's apparent that the machine has lost more money than the original XBox did. Sony would have to sell another 20m units at a several hundred dollar profit each to make up for it.

 

[MotherFan]

Unbelievable. So when Itagaki talked trash and even got into legal disputes, he was "The man", when Dyack(Whom I respect a lot) made a huge mistake by giving the clowns here the time of day, he was "Misunderstood" and "Being picked on". But when Jaffe who posts here rather frequently is being wringed out by some of the same people in the previous examples, it's totally fine? he's a shill?

Guess that explains why he purchases 360 games. M$ must be paying him!


You people keep saying this as if you're blind. What made the PS3=$599 again? Oh yeah! BluRay. What delayed the PS3? Oh yeah! BluRay! And what won the format war? BluRay! How is it a total failure if it accomplished one of the goals that Sony set out to?

Answer: No. Talking trash by a dev like that, imo is not the right thing to do in public. For any that do it. Not just Jaffe.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

I don't think there's any way around questions regarding what portions of Sony's strategy failed when Sony stock is at a 15-year low. It's a completely appropriate line of questioning.

It's better to just not do the interview if you don't feel comfortable answering these questions. I don't know if that's an option for you or not.

 

[kaching]

Like most other people in the thread, I'd love for someone who works in Sony to answer those questions.

Then you and most other people in this thread could already refer to a number of articles that have managed to ask these questions of people who work for Sony.

 

[godhandiscen]

Of course the journalist is biased, it is fucking MSNBC for fucks sake. What was Jaffe trying to prove? Who gets their gaming news from MSNBC?

So you tell me...am I just being ultra sensitive? If so, I apologize to the journalist in question. To be fair to him, he says he's looking at the PS life to date (and not focusing on upcoming things that could swing the console's fortunes ((ala KILLZONE 2, GOW 3, UNCHARTED 2, MLB 09, potential price drop,etc)) )....BUT even so, he seems to ignore ANY of the success it has had up till this point or any of the missteps the 360 has made...but again, I could be wrong...

Swing its fortune to what? Really Jaffe, to what? The PS3 doesn't need a savior is what everybody has been saying, and now as soon as cool titles show up in the horizon it is back to the "wait for x" game. Keep one argument and stay with it.

Also, why do you expect the journalist to ask you questions about the 360?

 

[belvedere]

words

Very true, but that very act you (and I, Chuck Todd is the man) hold in such high regard proves my point-there was a steep slant in the intent of that article from the very beginning.

I'm not saying just because the other companies have mistakes that Sony's are justified, but when the journalist goes out of his way to focus on pricing, surely he'd have asked Microsoft the "hard questions" regarding something like the astronomical failure rate of the 360.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Yes- they are close to making a profit already on the hardware. That is the whole reason price has stayed stable.Will they 'beat' the Wii? No way in hell. Not sure at this point, that is the goal.

Any chance that you'll answer a couple of hypothetical questions? Do you see Sony as continuing with their 10 year plan for the PS3 - whether the public has correctly interpreted the meaning of such or not? Do you see them making a PS4 at all? If they do make a PS4, what direction do you think they'll take it in?

 

[Oblivion]

Jaffe: "Well Larry, the high price at release put it behind the 8 ball from the very beginning. The number of quality, exclusive titles..."
King: "Game developer David Jaffe everyone, we'll be back tomorrow night at 9:00 with actor George Clooney discussing his new film."

You would think this would be a pretty cut and dry subject, with the interviewer specifically concentrating on the business side of things instead of actually having some hidden agenda to deny Sony any credit and praise for their stellar list of exclusives. Course, Dave always has the option of replying to each of the interviewer's questions with a Killzone gif.

 

[Gotchaye]

When I see people reason and say to me the Xbox 360 is doing pretty well and also try to make the case that PS3 is in a distant universe of under performance, I scratch my head.

OK, so the Xbox 360 is a relative success because the Xbox was an objective failure and PS3 is a relative failure because the PS2 was an objective success? I can dig that. But otherwise there's not much that separates the PS3 and Xbox 360 in terms of sales performance. They're both clobbered by the Wii and it truly is the only success through and through of this cycle.

Also, since you took us down the road, Microsoft is the only company to have not made a net profit in the console business. They're still what, 6 billion down the hole? So either they haven't managed their business particularly well or they're willing to just throw money at it. If it's the latter, why are they now making deep cuts on their internal workforce?

Come on, now - surely you understand what's wrong with this.

MS has lost much less money on the 360 than Sony has lost on the PS3. You're confusing the number of units that a system sells with its business success, and that just doesn't make sense.

And it makes no sense to try to excuse Sony's recent mistakes by pointing to what they were doing ten years ago. That's just absurd. MS was obviously quite willing to throw money into a hole in order to get into the market with the original XBox. And it now looks likely that they'll almost break even on the 360 (they might have broken even without RRoD and without the financial crisis).

 

[MotherFan]

A blog is the perfect place to post exactly how you want. Its not affiliated with any company line, and its your PERSONAL space.

Where do some of you people come from?

Sigh, not in your capacity as a member of the industry. You don't go seeing important members of other industries acting like this in blogs about their own industry. And it is not totally personal. you can get in trouble with your company on what you put on your blog.

 

[Robert Ashley]

Of course the journalist is biased, it is fucking MSNBC for fucks sake. What was Jaffe trying to prove? Who gets their gaming news from MSNBC

Investors?

 

[SolidSnakex]

You don't go seeing important members of other industries acting like this in blogs about their own industry

Go check out Kanye West's blog.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

So many people here caring about how a big corporation does:lol Even those who don't have any form of investment in the company, brings a tear to my eye.

We'll talk if you ever owned or invested money in a not future proof or dead system. (not knowing then that it was doomed)

 

[AndresON777]

So many people here caring about how a big corporation does:lol Even those who don't have any form of investment in the company, brings a tear to my eye.

But Bluray Won!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14840695&postcount=312

 

[dfyb]

just to point out exactly how pointless it is for people like RSTEIN to spam sony stock graphs out of context.

 

[gcubed]

Any chance that you'll answer a couple of hypothetical questions? Do you see Sony as continuing with their 10 year plan for the PS3 - whether the public has correctly interpreted the meaning of such or not? Do you see them making a PS4 at all? If they do make a PS4, what direction do you think they'll take it in?

scarily, those are better questions then the interviewer. I think Jaffe used the wrong word, and using the "b" word gets all kinds of people antsy in their pantsy. He could have just said "this twat is what passes for a "journalist" " ? And it would have caused much less GAF stir then the "b" word.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Unbelievable. So when Itagaki talked trash and even got into legal disputes, he was "The man", when Dyack(Whom I respect a lot) made a huge mistake by giving the clowns here the time of day, he was "Misunderstood" and "Being picked on". But when Jaffe who posts here rather frequently is being wringed out by some of the same people in the previous examples, it's totally fine? he's a shill?

What? Dyack posted his rants on GAF and was burned at the stake. Itagaki didn't get much support with that whole sexual harassment thing either. The only one of those three who even gets something remotely close to a free pass is Jaffe. Don't believe me? Look through this thread and count the people posting "I can't wait for THE FUCKING MAN to respond!!!"

 

[MotherFan]

Go check out Kanye West's blog.

He is a musician. Hollywood and Musicians are out of the norm. They don't get fired for being dumbasses, its expected. And no one thinks of them as professional.

 

[Catchpenny]

Then you and most other people in this thread could already refer to a number of articles that have managed to ask these questions of people who work for Sony.

Well, perhaps he meant he'd like to see those answers from someone who doesn't have to toe the PR line. Kaz Hirai and co. aren't going to tell people how they fucked up with the PS3 until they're ready to sell you a new console and explain how they've learned from their mistakes. Just like Iwata and Miyamoto were like, "No really, Gamecube is doing ok!" until the twilight years of the system.

 

[RSTEIN]

don't know if you've turned on the news, but today's economy sucks balls. and japanese companies that rely heavily on exporting products to external markets get hit again with currency rates. but because you like graphs so much:

Yes, today's economy sucks balls. I never said that Microsoft wasn't in a difficult position, because Jaffe already pointed that out... I even quoted it (not sure how you missed that). To say that Sony's stock price is down ONLY because of currency issues and the general economy is ridiculous. Sony's stock price has done worse than the Nikkei in the last 200 days. Conversely, Microsoft's stock has done better than the Dow Jones in the last 200 days.

He was using Microsoft's recent layoffs as an indicator that "not all is right in their gaming division and/or other divisions." I asked, with my graph, what exactly does SNE's stock price say? Jaffe's of the position that "it's not all doom and gloom." If it's not all doom and gloom, then what exactly does a stock price that's down 70% say to you?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

http://upload.dfyb.net/uploaded/ECONOMYSUCKS.png[IMG]

just to point out exactly how pointless it is for people like RSTEIN to spam sony stock graphs out of context.[/QUOTE]
Do me a favor and add Nintendo in there for kicks. NTDOY.PK

 

[Byakuya769]

Mr. Jaffe you need to realize the impact of Left4Dead.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... what?

What impact are you referring to?

 

[davidjaffe]

Sigh, not in your capacity as a member of the industry. You don't go seeing important members of other industries acting like this in blogs about their own industry. And it is not totally personal. you can get in trouble with your company on what you put on your blog.

Yeah, I don't buy the professional angle. If you want to see where my professionalism kicks in, play the games I am involved with. That is how I communicate that.

I am not here to play a character for you just like you don't play one for me.

If me doing that hurts my company or games, I would stop in a heartbeat. But so far, no issues.

David

 

[MotherFan]

I don't think there's any way around questions regarding what portions of Sony's strategy failed when Sony stock is at a 15-year low. It's a completely appropriate line of questioning.

It's better to just not do the interview if you don't feel comfortable answering these questions. I don't know if that's an option for you or not.

Even though I think ps3 is a failure, 15 year low is not due to ps3. It factors in some, but it is not the defining reason by any means.

 

[SolidSnakex]

He is a musician. Hollywood and Musicians are out of the norm. They don't get fired for being dumbasses, its expected. And no one thinks of them as professional.

How is being a game designer any different? Jaffe runs his own company, so he doesn't have to worry about being fired for what he says. And hell, even when he was with Sony he said they gave him the freedom to be open and honest. What's wrong with that?

 

[dfyb]

To say that Sony's stock price is down ONLY because of currency issues and the general economy is ridiculous.

good thing i didn't say that, then, right? in what world does "in part because" mean "soley because of"?

Do me a favor and add Nintendo in there for kicks. NTDOY.PK

stockcharts.com doesn't seem to have nintendo

 

[Vinci]

So if GTA and Final Fantasy were exclusive to Xbox last gen, along with Halo, PS2 would have ruled the world nonetheless?

You're telling me that people, before that generation even began, hadn't already said that the PS2 would be the king? It got those games because it was destined to be the king; that's why it got them. You're making it sound like the PS2 existed in a vacuum, when it clearly didn't. It sold like damned mad from the word 'go,' and that was before a FF or GTA game even hit the system.

Now, are you suggesting that those games might have helped it get some additional sales in the grand total? Sure, you can suggest that. But it wasn't successful because of those games; it got those games because it was successful. Do you think GTA3, had it shown up on the X-Box or Gamecube, would've caused one of those to beat the PS2?

 

[CrushDance]

But Bluray Won!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14840695&postcount=312

You really are annoying. Vinci was making an argument about how it was a failure full stop, as it had not accomplished anything for Sony. I pointed out how he was wrong in that the big reason for the PS3's troubles is because of BluRay, and that it winning was a major achievement.

Now you can go back to your usual rhetoric.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Very true, but that very act you (and I, Chuck Todd is the man) hold in such high regard proves my point-there was a steep slant in the intent of that article from the very beginning.

I'm not saying just because the other companies have mistakes that Sony's are justified, but when the journalist goes out of his way to focus on pricing, surely he'd have asked Microsoft the "hard questions" regarding something like the astronomical failure rate of the 360.

Jaffe is in a position where he can bring that to light with his perspective. He's sort of doing it in the blog post, but by taking that route, he's closing down the opportunity to have direct dialogue with the journalist. As opposed to asking "us" if this guy is biased, he could have answered him directly, and if the dude had totally ignored his responses and went ahead with a slash and burn piece, this whole conversation would be very different right now.

 

[belvedere]

It's also OK to have a basic understanding of the way the world works instead of making it up after a few bong hits.

You can question things without being a conspiracy theorist.

See "modern science"

 

[Son of Godzilla]

A blog is the perfect place to post exactly how you want. Its not affiliated with any company line, and its your PERSONAL space.

Where do some of you people come from?

A blog has not nor ever will be inextricable from the person posting it or any position they have. Not ever. Jaffe just lacks the person higher than him on the food chain telling him to shaddup. Well that and it's decent PR.

 

[godhandiscen]

Investors?

If there is money in line, would you take your news from one of those who are competing for your money? If now you claim that a person investing in this bussiness may not have that knowledge, then I pitty them. You should inform yourself better.

 

[braimuge]

NeoGAF, c'mon.

This is the perfect opportunity to actually have an intelligent convo, with highly regarded person in the industry. Have a little maturity will you?


Take advantage of this, and actually engage in productive conversations

 

[Gotchaye]

Yeah, to chime in on the other side:

It's pointless to look at Sony or MS stock in order to say something about the PS3 or 360. These systems are only tiny contributors to the overall success of each company.

We also don't need to do that. Both companies publish financial results which give numbers for just their gaming divisions (for Sony; MS is entertainment and devices).

 

[krypt0nian]

Sigh, not in your capacity as a member of the industry. You don't go seeing important members of other industries acting like this in blogs about their own industry. And it is not totally personal. you can get in trouble with your company on what you put on your blog.

Keep your sighs to yourself. Jaffe can and does post what he likes. He has for years and the only repercussions was being given his own fucking studio.

Now what?

A blog has not nor ever will be inextricable from the person posting it or any position they have. Not ever. Jaffe just lacks the person higher than him on the food chain telling him to shaddup. Well that and it's decent PR.

Bullshit. If its not posted under the company flag, its his personal space, to talk about movies, politics, gaming, etc.

As long as he's is not directly speaking as a company rep, you have no point.

 

[slider]

How is being a game designer any different? Jaffe runs his own company, so he doesn't have to worry about being fired for what he says. And hell, even when he was with Sony he said they gave him the freedom to be open and honest. What's wrong with that?

In fact, you could argue it's very similar in that it's media and artistic expression.

Despite the f-bombs, Jaffe always strikes me as a rational adult. Kudos.

 

[Zenith]

Yes- they are close to making a profit already on the hardware. That is the whole reason price has stayed stable.Will they 'beat' the Wii? No way in hell. Not sure at this point, that is the goal.

Jaffe: "No way in hell can Sony beat Nintendo."

We finally got our headline. To the presses!

 

[forgeforsaken]

Oh two more things...ok, three:

#1- Regarding why did I even mention the 360 when the questions don't. Uhm, WHY?!? Cause the guy writing the fucking article is getting paid BY MICROSOFT (who makes the 360)! Don't you think that's kind of , you know ,relevant?

When a Murdoch owned publication does an article about a movie studio other than Fox is it relevant?