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[sloppyjoe_gamer]

Even though I think ps3 is a failure, 15 year low is not due to ps3. It factors in some, but it is not the defining reason by any means.

To me its pointless to sit here and throw the word failure around because its such a personal term that means different things to different people....Sony stockholders may see the PS3's current market position as a failure, but the gamer who owns the system and loves all the games doesnt give a shit about market position, and just wants to play the games.

The Gamecube, and the original Xbox could also be considered failures based on their market position last gen, but try to tell the people who thoroughly enjoyed the systems that they they were failures....

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Well, perhaps he meant he'd like to see those answers from someone who doesn't have to toe the PR line. Kaz Hirai and co. aren't going to tell people how they fucked up with the PS3 until they're ready to sell you a new console and explain how they've learned from their mistakes. Just like Iwata and Miyamoto were like, "No really, Gamecube is doing ok!" until the twilight years of the system.

That's exactly what I meant. Jaffe is in a unique position, being a clearly opinionated person in the industry, clearly unafraid to speak his mind. I would love to hear what it was really like in the first few years, just as I'd really like to hear someone give a bullshit free account of what was going on inside MS when RROD imploded.

 

[Jive Turkey]

NeoGAF, c'mon.

This is the perfect opportunity to actually have an intelligent convo, with highly regarded person in the industry. Have a little maturity will you?


Take advantage of this, and actually engage in productive conversations

You're new here aren't you?

 

[gcubed]

How is being a game designer any different? Jaffe runs his own company, so he doesn't have to worry about being fired for what he says. And hell, even when he was with Sony he said they gave him the freedom to be open and honest. What's wrong with that?

-- he cant do that
-- what about such and such?
-- no no they're different!
-- and such and such
-- different too!

 

[MotherFan]

Yeah, I don't buy the professional angle. If you want to see where my professionalism kicks in, play the games I am involved with. That is how I communicate that.

I am not here to play a character for you just like you don't play one for me.

If me doing that hurts my company or games, I would stop in a heartbeat. But so far, no issues.

David

I think we agree to disagree on the professionalism. IMO I think the industry as a whole would be seen in a better light if there was more of it (not talking about just gamers here). And I like your games, and I understand thats how you communicate your skills as a developer. But someone, say a pharmacutical company is able to do his work making medicine but is also supposed to be professional when in a capacity for the company. As is a lawyer, etc.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Well, IMO since you are identifiable with your screen name and that you are an important figure in the industry (and a good developer, I don't think anyone is questioning that) that this and the blog may not be the best medium to use the type of language you would. It is one thing to go out drinking with friends and do this, but as a representative for your company (which you are as you are on a popular game site talking about your industry) and game developers I think hurts the image of developers and makes you look immature. In most industries and jobs outbursts like this would be very damning.

I just think it would do alot for the image of the community if these types of posts did not come from the insiders. A civil response with no foul language could have gotten the point across imo.

no!

gaming is about fun, its a little about lifestyle... if all devs would act like wallstreet guys it would totaly go to hell...

you know rock&roll / skaters etc are what they are because of this kind of image and behavior, and i would like more Davids as devs ---

 

[GenericPseudonym]

http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp...zos=-18000;-18000;-18000&q=NASDAQ:MSFT&ntsp=0

Just to end dfyb making out that Sony's performance is in-line with the Nasdaq and MS. Sony's performance is well below even the Nikkei.

 

[FabCam]

Mr. Jaffe you need to realize the impact of Left4Dead.


The PS2 gained a lot from Grand Theft Auto.

The 360 is gaining a lot from Left4Dead.


Opinions of journalists are now shifting. They see the sales data.

L4D? Are you serious? I asume this is a joke post.

 

[RSTEIN]

just to point out exactly how pointless it is for people like RSTEIN to spam sony stock graphs out of context.

Why are you saying I'm spamming graphs out of context? I put up the Sony stock chart... for the first time ever!

You're missing my point. Jaffe said that Microsoft's layoffs were an indicator that not all is well (which of course is correct, and many other companies around the world are undergoing the same review process). However, Jaffe maintains that it's not "all doom and gloom" for Sony. That's why I posted the stock chart and asked "if Microsoft's layoffs are a sign that not all is well, what does this chart tell you?"

 

[MotherFan]

To me its pointless to sit here and throw the word failure around because its such a personal term that means different things to different people....Sony stockholders may see the PS3's current market position as a failure, but the gamer who owns the system and loves all the games doesnt give a shit about market position, and just wants to play the games.

The Gamecube, and the original Xbox could also be considered failures based on their market position last gen, but try to tell the people who thoroughly enjoyed the systems that they they were failures....

I think it is a failure as a product for sony. Gamers can and do enjoy it. Thats what I mean.

 

[wolfmat]

I think we agree to disagree on the professionalism. IMO I think the industry as a whole would be seen in a better light if there was more of it (not talking about just gamers here). And I like your games, and I understand thats how you communicate your skills as a developer. But someone, say a pharmacutical company is able to do his work making medicine but is also supposed to be professional when in a capacity for the company. As is a lawyer, etc.

Is supposed to? So what? Ha.

 

[Robert Ashley]

If there is money in line, would you take your news from one of those who are competing for your money? If now you claim that a person investing in this bussiness may not have that knowledge, then I pitty them. You should inform yourself better.

Do you honestly believe business reporters at MSNBC get their marching orders from the Xbox marketing team?

Total ignorance.

 

[legend166]

The PS3 is one of the biggest screwups in the history of consumer electronics. Someone should be asking wtf happened.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

whoa, did jaffe just use "wait for..." ??

With a fricking baseball game thrown in there too. :lol

Can't wait until next year.

(and not focusing on upcoming things that could swing the console's fortunes ((ala Firmware Update 5.0, Home Expansion, Madden, potential price drop,etc)) )

 

[MotherFan]

Keep your sighs to yourself. Jaffe can and does post what he likes. He has for years and the only repercussions was being given his own fucking studio.

Now what?



Bullshit. If its not posted under the company flag, its his personal space, to talk about movies, politics, gaming, etc.

As long as he's is not directly speaking as a company rep, you have no point.

Tell that to all the people that get fired/not hired due to facebook

Anyways, I just think it would reflect better on the industry. He has his own studio so he can do what he wants. You are right. But, like I said, I think it would be better in the end with more professionalism.

 

[AndresON777]

You really are annoying. Vinci was making an argument about how it was a failure full stop, as it had not accomplished anything for Sony. I pointed out how he was wrong in that the big reason for the PS3's troubles is because of BluRay, and that it winning was a major achievement.

Now you can go back to your usual rhetoric.

I was responding to how you were :lol at people caring about how a big corporation does, when you must care if you feel the need to defend one of these big corporations.

 

[jaypah]

wow, this thread is.....i don't know. it's like a painting of horse shit come to life.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

The PS3 is one of the biggest screwups in the history of consumer electronics. Someone should be asking wtf happened.

What? It's not even the biggest 'screw up' in this generation of consoles :S

 

[Grampa Simpson]

scarily, those are better questions then the interviewer.

You sound surprised.

:lol

I'm just trying to get a feel for the shape of the next few years of the console world.

 

[Goreomedy]

I think we agree to disagree on the professionalism. IMO I think the industry as a whole would be seen in a better light if there was more of it (not talking about just gamers here). And I like your games, and I understand thats how you communicate your skills as a developer. But someone, say a pharmacutical company is able to do his work making medicine but is also supposed to be professional when in a capacity for the company. As is a lawyer, etc.

As long as we're instructing people on how they should contribute to this forum...

Never analogize again. Please.

 

[StuBurns]

How is being a game designer any different? Jaffe runs his own company, so he doesn't have to worry about being fired for what he says. And hell, even when he was with Sony he said they gave him the freedom to be open and honest. What's wrong with that?

It's true, if he really wanted to slag off Sony he could, but it's not that it wouldn't effect him or his company.

IF he's working on Twisted Metal, it's Sony's IP and Sony are the publisher. They could pull the project, it'd hurt his company, a lot.

Even if it's a new IP his relationship with Sony is probably still important to him.

 

[FabCam]

The PS3 is one of the biggest screwups in the history of consumer electronics. Someone should be asking wtf happened.

What the fuck are you on about? Is this shit for real? Where do some of you guys come from?

 

[Son of Godzilla]

As long as he's is not directly speaking as a company rep, you have no point.

Tell that to Phelps.

 

[slider]

When a Murdoch owned publication does an article about a movie studio other than Fox is it relevant?

Well for what it's worth The Times will always declare a business relationship (parent, child, sibling) when reporting.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

wow, this thread is.....i don't know. it's like a painting of horse shit come to life.

:lol

 

[seat]

I haven't read the entire thread, but how are these questions anything different from the usual heat Sony gets these days from being in last place? They're questions, not statements. Now Jaffe can answer them in any way he deems fair.

is this obnoxiously biased to the point that most rational folks would be offended to get such an email?

Well, these questions are rational to people who read news from sources other than Sony PR.

 

[Jive Turkey]

wow, this thread is.....i don't know. it's like a painting of horse shit come to life.

You and I don't often agree but we've managed to do so twice in one thread.

 

[Vinci]

What? It's not even the biggest 'screw up' in this generation of consoles :S

Out of curiosity, what do you think it is?

 

[gcubed]

You can question things without being a conspiracy theorist.

See "modern science"

Its pretty clear that that the moon landing was taped in a studio, the flag in a no gravity situation wouldn't move like that. How else do you think the moon landing was faked?

Thats the questioning. Its just horrible horrible questioning... but not "bias"

 

[sankt-Antonio]

wow, this thread is.....i don't know. it's like a painting of horse shit come to life.

 

[wolfmat]

Tell that to Phelps.

He smoked a fucking bong. I mean, there's a difference between talking smack and smoking freaking drugs, dude..

 

[Interfectum]

Well for what it's worth The Times will always declare a business relationship (parent, child, sibling) when reporting.

So does MSNBC... your point?

 

[Gotchaye]

It's true, if he really wanted to slag off Sony he could, but it's not that it wouldn't effect him or his company.

IF he's working on Twisted Metal, it's Sony's IP and Sony are the publisher. They could pull the project, it'd hurt his company, a lot.

Even if it's a new IP his relationship with Sony is probably still important to him.

Exactly this.

That's why it's important not to think that David is a silly or unreasonable person based on what he says in public. He's quite possibly a very intelligent person.

 

[davidjaffe]

I think we agree to disagree on the professionalism. IMO I think the industry as a whole would be seen in a better light if there was more of it (not talking about just gamers here). And I like your games, and I understand thats how you communicate your skills as a developer. But someone, say a pharmacutical company is able to do his work making medicine but is also supposed to be professional when in a capacity for the company. As is a lawyer, etc.

Yes because that professionalism affects the product they sell. I don't want to buy meds from a guy behind a counter telling me to go fuck off if I am a Bush supporter. BUT it does not affect the games we work on. If it did, I would be quiet as a church mouse cause the games matter more than anything to me.

All that is being affected right now is your sensibilities and desire for things to be a way that they are not. That- my friend- really is your issue. A personal issue. And it's a fair, valid issue to have. It just is not mine.

David

 

[dfyb]

The Gamecube, and the original Xbox could also be considered failures based on their market position last gen, but try to tell the people who thoroughly enjoyed the systems that they they were failures....

i didn't enjoy xbox but i don't consider it a failure -- microsoft knew they were fighting against the current. they built up mindshare and technology infrastructure, allowing their current 360 success today. gamecube, like many nintendo products, remained profitable -- allowing them to continue to develop new games and technology, leading to today's success. sony is taking a hit with ps3, and yeah that was due largely to decisions they made, but PS3 is still outputting solid games (which to me, is what a game console should be measured by first and foremost) and they are building up technology infrastructure much like microsoft did last gen. i'm not making any guarantee sony will be at the top again next gen, or anytime in the future, but they are in a better position to do so now than they would be if the PS3 actually did fail. when i think of fail, i think of unsalvagable. phantom failed. 3DO failed. Virtual Boy failed. PS3 isn't failing.

 

[kamorra]

The PS3 is one of the biggest screwups in the history of consumer electronics. Someone should be asking wtf happened.

:lol

 

[Vinci]

He's quite possibly a very intelligent person.

I'd say that's pretty much a definite. What's this 'possibly' stuff about? :lol

 

[CrushDance]

I was responding to how you were :lol at people caring about how a big corporation does, when you must care if you feel the need to defend one of these big corporations.

How is that defending Sony when I pointed out an error? You really don't know me at all you be talking like that. Go back 2 months and see the threads I made about Sony and the shitty service I got from them regarding my PS3 repair.

You really have no idea.

 

[slider]

Tell that to all the people that get fired/not hired due to facebook

Anyways, I just think it would reflect better on the industry. He has his own studio so he can do what he wants. You are right. But, like I said, I think it would be better in the end with more professionalism.

I can totally see where you're coming from. Personally I have no strong feelings on presentational issues. Heck, of all the big devs I can think of, and I don't pay much attention, I can't see many rocking up in pin-stripes.

 

[kaching]

Well, perhaps he meant he'd like to see those answers from someone who doesn't have to toe the PR line. Kaz Hirai and co. aren't going to tell people how they fucked up with the PS3 until they're ready to sell you a new console and explain how they've learned from their mistakes. Just like Iwata and Miyamoto were like, "No really, Gamecube is doing ok!" until the twilight years of the system.

Stringer has been pretty candid about the PS3 and considering how much people like to joke about Kutaragi's comments about the PS3 (two jobs, etc.) perhaps people lost sight of just how candid those comments were.

 

[ravien56]

Jaffe is awesome:lol

 

[krypt0nian]

Tell that to Phelps.

For seriously making a silly comparison like that -50 DKP.

 

[yellowjacket]

The PS3 is one of the biggest screwups in the history of consumer electronics. Someone should be asking wtf happened.

Youve gotta be kidding me. This thread really did bring out interesting supporters from both sides.

 

[fatigues_gasolini]

Tell that to Phelps.

Phelps had sponsors that paid him money to represent him. Jaffe has a company independent of Sony. People seem to think he somehow represents Sony as a company.

 

[belvedere]

Its pretty clear that that the moon landing was taped in a studio, the flag in a no gravity situation wouldn't move like that. How else do you think the moon landing was faked?

Thats the questioning. Its just horrible horrible questioning... but not "bias"

I don't know who you are, so I don't know if this is a joke or not.

 

[MotherFan]

As long as we're instructing people on how they should contribute to this forum...

Never analogize again. Please.

:/

Why do you think it does not fit?

 

[Robert Ashley]

MS calls reporter at MSNBC, insists that reporter write anti-PS3 story --> Reporter calls the NY Times with an awesome scoop, moves on to better job.





Reality.

 

[Gotchaye]

I'd say that's pretty much a definite. What's this 'possibly' stuff about?

That could easily be. I haven't heard anything from him other than what I've seen from this thread, though.

 

[travisbickle]

It's bad journalism, another journalist making up "facts" to go along with the story he wants to write.

I worked in a research department for "alchohol, drug and gang related violence", every week we would get journalists phoning up asking to speak to one of the Drs/Professors about the "rise in stabbings/violent crime" or the "relationship between drinking and beating up your partner"; they were always factually incorrect: stabbings and violent crime have been dropping for years and violence between partners doesn't occur due to drink, the reason was the journalist had a headline and story in his head and wanted a sound bite/quote to go along with it, he didn't care about the truth because that didn't go along with his story.


And don't come back with it's an "opinion" from the journalist, journalists can't have opinions they write facts and the opinions of others....I'm not suprised Jaffe thought it sounded biased but it was just crappy journalism.

 

[wolfmat]

Yes because that professionalism affects the product they sell. I don't want to buy meds from a guy behind a counter telling me to go fuck off if I am a Bush supporter.

No look - it's more like the counter guy posted on his blog that all the fanboy reporters asking about aspirine's market failure in the recent months are teh bias and should suck their father's dicks or something.