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[Piecake]

Japan needs to promote immigration, at least until all of the high birth rate age groups die off. Once that happens, they can slowly reduce immigration if they want. Seems a hell of a lot simpler than trying to give incentives to people to have more kids unless that incentive is widely available free daycare. Doubt that would solve the issue either

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I'll impregnate your beautiful Japanese women and give them gorgeous half caucasian children. Call me Japan!

AND MY AXE

 

[mercenar1e]

China is on stand by lol

 

[Nyoro SF]

This is just a by product of their work culture more than anything. If all you do is tell your population that hard work and money is all that matters, turns out they stop having those nasty expensive children so they can remain more successful. Families are a huge time and financial investment that many workers cannot afford.

Yes. The overbearing work culture is actually the cause of many of the cracks of Japanese society...

 

[Cow Mengde]

AND MY AXE

You guys should really cut back on the porn. Most Asian women aren't as beautiful as you think. Their ratios of beautiful and ugly are no different than other races.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

Tax revenue shrinks as the older generation retires, but financial commitments of the state increase proportionally.

conversly,demand shrinks drastically while supply stays high, making everything cheaper.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

The first time I saw a population pyramid for Germany I almost died of a heart attack. There are a lot of countries that are going to face problems like Japan in the future.

Yeah, it really can be when you look at it and other similar trajectories.

 

[BocoDragon]

You guys should really cut back on the porn. Most Asian women aren't as beautiful as you think. Their ratios of beautiful and ugly are no different than other races.

Bad Sushi is still exotic.

 

[Wafflecakes]

conversly,demand shrinks drastically while supply stays high, making everything cheaper.

Not really since a smaller population will produce less, while the older generations still consume.

 

[Makoto]

Most Asian women aren't as beautiful as you think. Their ratios of beautiful and ugly are no different than other races.

Wrong. Japan is full of beauties. In fact, the diversity in looks is astounding. I've seen Japanese women with hair and eye colors of all types. You'd be surprised, there's actually too many women in Japan right now and boys, often as young as middle schoolers must choose their girlfriends in a slowly built up harem and sometimes these boys are so overwhelmed by their situations, that they don't choose any girl and simply settle with nothing but friendships. But friendships don't make babies, now do they?

 

[Black Republican]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=509525

Your welcome Japan.

 

[Oare]

Japan needs to promote immigration, at least until all of the high birth rate age groups die off.

That wouldn't solve the country's biggest problem: the huge gap that exists between the costs involved in raising children and the actual usable income people have.

I don't think there are any official figures on the subject, but it's fairly easy to find the results of independently conducted surveys where people are asked things like: "how many children would you ideally have, and how many are you actually planning on having?"
Here's an example: http://www.hagukumi.ne.jp/angel110/special/21.shtml

In the first graph, 93% of the women replied that ideally, they'd like either 2 (45%) or 3 (47%) children, but 82% said they were only planning on having 1 (20%) or 2 (62%).

The reasons given are:
- Economical reasons (39%)
- Career (13%)
- Late marriage (11%)

When asked what kind of solutions they think would be efficient in fighting the decline in birthrates, their answers were:
- Economical support (40%)
- A more parents friendly work environment (12%)
- Easier to enter childcare (11%)

And these are 2006 numbers. The situation has actually worsened since then (with the recent suppression of big tax deductions for couples with children, replaced with nothing but tears and cries).

Immigrants would have exactly the same problems.

The only immigrants who would be willing to have more than 2 children in current Japan would be those who aren't planning on putting a lot of money in their children's education.
It is probably safe to bet those would be mostly unqualified workers.

But Japan doesn't have enough of a need for unqualified workers to justify massive immigration.
The country already opens its doors to foreigners in sectors where they are needed - nurses (to take care of the elderly), for example.

 

[GrandHarrier]

I was wondering why there hadn't been any new Macross lately.

 

[Piecake]

That wouldn't solve the country's biggest problem: the huge gap that exists between the costs involved in raising children and the actual usable income people have.

I don't think there are any official figures on the subject, but it's fairly easy to find the results of independently conducted surveys where people are asked things like: "how many children would you ideally have, and how many are you actually planning on having?"
Here's an example: http://www.hagukumi.ne.jp/angel110/special/21.shtml

In the first graph, 93% of the women replied that ideally, they'd like either 2 (45%) or 3 (47%) children, but 82% said they were only planning on having 1 (20%) or 2 (62%).

The reasons given are:
- Economical reasons (39%)
- Career (13%)
- Late marriage (11%)

When asked what kind of solutions they think would be efficient in fighting the decline in birthrates, their answers were:
- Economical support (40%)
- A more parents friendly work environment (12%)
- Easier to enter childcare (11%)

And these are 2006 numbers. The situation has actually worsened since then (with the recent suppression of big tax deductions for couples with children, replaced with nothing but tears and cries).

Immigrants would have exactly the same problems.

The only immigrants who would be willing to have more than 2 children in current Japan would be those who aren't planning on putting a lot of money in their children's education.
It is probably safe to bet those would be mostly unqualified workers.

But Japan doesn't have enough of a need for unqualified workers to justify massive immigration.
The country already opens its doors to foreigners in sectors where they are needed - nurses (to take care of the elderly), for example.

The problem with making daycare more affordable is that it probably won't make Japan's natural increase rate positive. Why? Well, look at other wealthy countries around the world. Their NIR rate is around zero as well. Free daycare, tax incentives, and policy changes are not going to make Japanese women pop out more babies. Sure, it might increase a little bit, but I HIGHLY doubt that it will turn into a positive NIR based on other examples. Plus, having more babies really doent solve the issue for the workers right now. They would be doubly fucked. That would simply increase the dependency ratio, causing more economic hardship onto the existing labor force.

What does this lead to? A shit ton of old people depending on a shrinking working population that is being pinched further and further thanks to the increased burden that these extra older people are causing

What will fix it? Increased immigration to get more workers into Japan to help pay for those old people and boost the economy through consumption. And it really doesnt matter that those immigrants have a ton of kids or not. Its just a stop gap until all those old fuckers die off. When the old fuckers are from a time where the growth rate was 0%, bam, you solved your problem, basically

And 98.5% of the population being Japanese is not what I would call opening its doors to qualified foreigners.

 

[NomarTyme]

Goddamn Anime pillows.

 

[Madness]

Japan needs to promote immigration, at least until all of the high birth rate age groups die off. Once that happens, they can slowly reduce immigration if they want. Seems a hell of a lot simpler than trying to give incentives to people to have more kids unless that incentive is widely available free daycare. Doubt that would solve the issue either

Not really, because you'll create quite a conundrum in a highly homogeneous country. An influx of foreigners won't change anything except create a new 'minority' group that will be discriminated against in all facets of life.

They can increase temporary workers to work in factories and fields, maybe move some manufacturing offshore. Then, they can promote large families and provide benefits and incentives. They can also look at their workplace culture and increase changes. We saw a few weeks ago, a thread where women didn't get close to the amount of economic incentives they would get in other countries. Imagine if the government provided a lot of paid maternity leave without discrimination, they provided benefits and help to new fathers so that they can also stay home and now have to come to work etc.

Bringing in a bunch of immigrants from other countries won't do anything because you're just putting a bandaid on an internal wound so to speak.

 

[number47]

japan needs to promote more unsafe sex. yes yes...sti's i know.

 

[CornBurrito]

Wrong. Japan is full of beauties. In fact, the diversity in looks is astounding. I've seen Japanese women with hair and eye colors of all types. You'd be surprised, there's actually too many women in Japan right now and boys, often as young as middle schoolers must choose their girlfriends in a slowly built up harem and sometimes these boys are so overwhelmed by their situations, that they don't choose any girl and simply settle with nothing but friendships. But friendships don't make babies, now do they?

Are you telling me that harem anime is actually realistic to a degree?

 

[Piecake]

Not really, because you'll create quite a conundrum in a highly homogeneous country. An influx of foreigners won't change anything except create a new 'minority' group that will be discriminated against in all facets of life.

They can increase temporary workers to work in factories and fields, maybe move some manufacturing offshore. Then, they can promote large families and provide benefits and incentives. They can also look at their workplace culture and increase changes. We saw a few weeks ago, a thread where women didn't get close to the amount of economic incentives they would get in other countries. Imagine if the government provided a lot of paid maternity leave without discrimination, they provided benefits and help to new fathers so that they can also stay home and now have to come to work etc.

Bringing in a bunch of immigrants from other countries won't do anything because you're just putting a bandaid on an internal wound so to speak.

All you need is a bandaid. This is a temporary problem that will go away once the old people who were born in a high growth era die off. And you need to look at Europe, Canada and other economically developed nations to see that growth rate's are practically zero or negative. Providing free, widely available daycare and giving tax incentives to pop out more kids isnt going to solve this issue. And if it actually does work, it will hurt the generation already getting screwed even more, since now they are providing for an even greater percentage of dependent persons

And immigration forcing Japan to change into a less xenophobic or culturally insular, whatever, would be a good thing

 

[Lathentar]

Its just a stop gap until all those old fuckers die off. When the old fuckers are from a time where the growth rate was 0%, bam, you solved your problem, basically

That's not how it works. The current generation isn't having enough kids to sustain them either when they get older. Until the Japanese actually start having enough kids, they will continue to decrease in population.

 

[Piecake]

That's not how it works. The current generation isn't having enough kids to sustain them either when they get older. Until the Japanese actually start having enough kids, they will continue to decrease in population.

The point is, is that instead of having a horrific imbalance they will only have a slight imbalance that can be solved by very little immigration

Instead of this

They'd have something that looks more like a gentle sloping upwards rectangle that starts to recede at 65 again.

And I am not quite sure why we should be promoting people to have more kids when its completely unnecessary and could totally fuck us over thanks to finite resources, phosphorus especailly- well, that looks like it will fuck us over no matter what). There are a bunch of poorer nations growing at a very fast pace. Countries who want to increase their population, instead of telling their womens to pop out more babies, they should promote immigration

And before you say, racial tensions! Screw that. the immigrants probably experienced a great deal of racial/ethnic tensions where they were from and would be a hell of a lot better economically living in Japan than Burkina Faso

 

[AlexBasch]

Are you telling me that harem anime is actually realistic to a degree?

 

[titiklabingapat]

This current generation that haven't retired is essentially fucked no matter how you slice it, but the generation after that should have it easy, provided the country doesn't implode because of all the old people.

 

[Cousteau]

Male extinction is a real thing.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Japan just has to endure long enough for the excess elderly population to die off, right?

The problem is they keep on living longer and longer.

 

[Oare]

Well, look at other wealthy countries around the world.

Some countries, such as France, are damn near close to the 2.1 replacement threshold though.
The country apparently saw a 0.1 increase in the last ten years thanks to generous children policies.

And it really doesnt matter that those immigrants have a ton of kids or not. Its just a stop gap until all those old fuckers die off.

But what do you do once the elderly are dead ?
Do you kick all the immigrants out ?
Because otherwise, unless the immigrants have children themselves, you just postpone the problem.

And 98.5% of the population being Japanese is not what I would call opening its doors to qualified foreigners.

Fair enough, I should have written: "the country has recently started opening its doors to foreigners in sectors where they actually need them". The move is recent (~ 5 years).

 

[Slayven]

This isn't their final form.

 

[number47]

i just realized, this only means a giant surplus of job openings,and the real estate in japan crashing.or becoming extremely cheap. just gotta wait out the old people

 

[Piecake]

Some countries, such as France, are damn near close to the 2.1 replacement threshold though.
The country apparently saw a 0.1 increase in the last ten years thanks to generous children policies.

My point was is that you are not going to get beyond that, and suddenly increasing the birth rate simply fucks over the people working now even more because they suddenly have to take care of more dependents

But what do you do once the elderly are dead ?
Do you kick all the immigrants out ?
Because otherwise, unless the immigrants have children themselves, you just postpone the problem.

Postpone? Its there to mitigate it. Instead of this working generation getting totally fucked over, you fuck them over slightly by increasing the amount of working age people. You want to get to the point where every single age group is from a low growth period and work from there.

Again, why would you want to encourage more kids when there are plenty of nations with high birth rates where people would love to immigrate to Japan. A steady influx of immigrants to sustain the population of a nation isnt a bad thing at all

Fair enough, I should have written: "the country has recently started opening its doors to foreigners in sectors where they actually need them". The move is recent (~ 5 years).

http://www.census.gov/population/in...esults &T=13&A=separate&RT=0&Y=2013&R=-1&C=JA

Unless Japan simply isnt reporting migrants, instead of kicking 50 out per every 1k, they are letting 0 in for every thousand. I dont know if I would call that a boost in immigration

 

[yogloo]

The answer to this is robots and automation.

 

[lazorexplosion]

Given Japan's already dire government finances (government revenue only covers ~55% of expenses, already has huge debt) further decreases in the number and proportion of taxpayers and people saving for retirement vs retirees means crisis. Long term savings aren't safe in any Japanese financial institution, bail while you still can.

 

[DonMigs85]

I think many Gaffers would glady breed with Japanese lasses to stem this predicament

 

[ShadyLurker]

I think many Gaffers would glady breed with Japanese lasses to stem this predicament

Sorry to make an example of you (a lot of people have said something similar). But the statistic that 60% of japanese women aged 16-19 arent interested in sex suggests that wouldnt work out well. Women in Japan seem just as much to blame as the men.

 

[RSLAEV]

You guys should really cut back on the porn. Most Asian women aren't as beautiful as you think. Their ratios of beautiful and ugly are no different than other races.

mmmmmyeah I get the feeling that the guys who are chomping at the bit to be flown over to japan and offer their stud services aren't exactly male models themselves.....

 

[Fivefold]

Didn't Japan have a program some years back where they would pay Brazilians to go back to Brazil under the agreement that they can never return?

Time to reverse that shit. Cultural insulation is dumb.

I doubt most would even want to go back since the job market is actually much better in Brazil these days, people are coming back regardless of those incentives.

I travel a lot to Japan because of my job and while it's still a incredibly modern and sometimes alien place you can see the signs of decadence everywhere. Lot's of homeless people at parks and large trains stations, fuck, I got beggars asking me for money in Osaka, which was something I thought I'd never fucking see in Japan.

 

[Lonely1]

Tax revenue shrinks as the older generation retires, but financial commitments of the state increase proportionally.

Soylent Green or Logan Run, which future you like better?

 

[DonMigs85]

mmmmmyeah I get the feeling that the guys who are chomping at the bit to be flown over to japan and offer their stud services aren't exactly male models themselves.....

At least our genes will live at least one more generation

 

[Angry Fork]

They will just relax immigration rules if it became a real problem, not that big a deal it's not like Japanese people are going to go extinct or anything.

 

[lethial]

They need proper sexual education because having sex with animu body pillows does not produce babies.

 

[Phoenix]

This will continue until much of the more xenophobic culture dies off and then there will be a multicultural explosion followed by a desire to return to 'traditional values'. Its happening everywhere.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Like I said before, Japan will be the first country to grant immortality to its citizens.

Or at least invest massively in age-slowing-therapy, and nationalize it.

This will continue until much of the more xenophobic culture dies off and then there will be a multicultural explosion followed by a desire to return to 'traditional values'. Its happening everywhere.

100% agreed. I can see the property bubble headlines already (after the current downward slide).

 

[childplease]

Hope this trend spreads world wide world population is bloated we need a population decrease.

 

[KillerMan91]

You guys should really cut back on the porn. Most Asian women aren't as beautiful as you think. Their ratios of beautiful and ugly are no different than other races.

Well in Asian countries there are a lot less overweight people though. That automatically means better ratio for good looking women. Was kinda amazed by it when I visited Japan couple of years ago. Could count fat women that I saw with two hand fingers and I spent a week in Osaka.

 

[Polari]

They will just relax immigration rules if it became a real problem, not that big a deal it's not like Japanese people are going to go extinct or anything.

This is sarcastic, right? Hard to tell on the Internet.

 

[Fusebox]

You guys should really cut back on the porn. Most Asian women aren't as beautiful as you think. Their ratios of beautiful and ugly are no different than other races.

I've been to Japan and I've been to America, and if I had to choose one country where I was forced to make out with a random woman at every 10 paces it would be Japan.

Omg it would sooooo be Japan...

 

[jgminto]

Damn anime! Corrupting the youth!

 

[ThisWreckage]

My friend got back from Osaka on a two week business trip and he said that it was incredibly easy to get laid there. I don't understand Japanese men. It's not that they've been emasculated as much as they're completely apathetic.

 

[B!TCH]

Multiculturalism is Japans only hope now, but that itself is a frightening concept. You can kiss Japans established culture goodbye.

You make it sound like that is a bad thing. Culture is supposed to change over time. It's not good or bad, it just is.

 

[Fuzz Rez]

You make it sound like that is a bad thing. Culture is supposed to change over time. It's not good or bad, it just is.

Not to mention Japan already has had big cultural change since they were under US occupation. It didn't kill them. But I don't think mass immigration is any kind of real answer. Problem with mass immigration at the moment is jobs. There is no demand for low level jobs and highly skilled workers don't have to much troubles with immigration policies to begin with. They could be more lax for sure but immigration isn't some kind of magic bullet that will solve Japan's problems. And should we even call this a problem? Japan can and will hire more people to specific sectors from outside of Japan. If anything I would be more worried about Japan's bloated construction sector that hires about 9% to10% of Japan's labor force. You can't keep building dams and roads that lead to nowhere when your social newtwork bills keep rising.

 

[hoos30]

Sorry, but they did it to themselves. Get off the KKK inspired immigration policy.