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[nextgeneration]

Despite? Having a small installed base is generally a good thing if you want a high tie-ratio.
I believe Wii has the highest software sales of any system after 1 year ever, actually.

Yes, that generally is the case, but then how do we explain ps3's low tie ratio? The installed base for that isn't very high either, but the tie ratio is horrid. Of course, having crappy games probably explains the gist of it.

 

[Deku]

Yes, that generally is the case, but then how do we explain ps3's low tie ratio? The installed base for that isn't very high either, but the tie ratio is horrid. Of course, having crappy games probably explains the gist of it.

piracy?

 

[Dalthien]

1- why is Bandai and Namco listed separately?

Just a personal choice. Namco Bandai have now merged into a single company, but Namco and Bandai are still treated as separate divisions within that company. In fact, if you look at the box covers for any game in Japan (even new ones), it will only have either the Namco or the Bandai logo on the cover, but never both. The two branches have been kept separate, even though the financial aspects all belong to one company now. But yeah, their publisher breakdowns could just as easily be combined as well. As I said, it was just a personal choice.

 

[Dalthien]

So wait, Nintendo has sold more than 50% off all software sold on all 3 next-gen systems combined? In other words: they own more than 50% of the software market?

Yeah. Even more amazingly, Nintendo also has more than 50% of the handheld market.

Just a quick software analysis:

Wii/PS3/X360:

2,972,373 - Wii 3rd-parties
2.026.259 - PS3 3rd-parties
1,489,957 - X360 3rd-parties

9,623,641 (17 titles) - Nintendo 1st party Wii software
6,488,589 (211 titles) - 3rd parties combined (Wii + PS3 + X360)
8,209,229 (242 titles) - All non-Nintendo software (including Sony & Microsoft) (Wii + PS3 + X360)


DS/PSP: (from the DS/PSP chart)

29,189,862 - DS 3rd-parties
12,932,966 - PSP 3rd-parties

53,750,181 (81 titles) - Nintendo 1st-party DS software
42,122,828 (553 titles) - 3rd-parties combined (DS + PSP)
44,991,267 (592 titles) - All non-Nintendo software (including Sony) (DS + PSP)


If this doesn't illustrate Nintendo's absolute grasp on Japan, then I don't know what else to say. In the current gen home console market, Nintendo has 54.0% of all software sold even though they don't release titles on 2 of the 3 systems. Every other publisher combined (including Sony and Microsoft) accounts for 46.0%. And this is with only 17 titles released by Nintendo, and 242 titles released by everyone else. Yeah, that's right. 17 Nintendo games have outsold all 242 games released by everyone else.

And things are pretty much the exact same in the handheld market. Nintendo has 54.4% of all software sold, whereas every other publisher combined (including Sony) accounts for 45.6%. And this is with only 81 titles released by Nintendo, and 592 titles released by everyone else. Again, 81 Nintendo games have outsold all 592 games released by everyone else.


It is staggering - almost to the point of being unbelievable. Things should slowly improve for 3rd-party percentage on the handheld market with DQ9 and other efforts coming, along with Nintendo seeming to back off of DS development a bit. But it could get even more lopsided in the home console market in the short term with Wii Fit still going strong, plus Smash Bros. and Mario Kart coming soon.

In any case, this is why I laugh whenever developers or publishers (or even fellow GAFfers) make comments suggesting that publishers should avoid Nintendo systems because they don't want to compete with Nintendo. The simple fact is - they already are competing with Nintendo, regardless of what system they put their titles on. And they are losing that competition - badly.

I would suspect that almost everyone who owns a PSP also owns a DS in Japan, so whenever a PSP owner buys a Nintendo published DS game, that is money that could have gone towards a PSP game. The publisher was still competing with Nintendo for that money even though they made an effort to avoid the Nintendo platform. Likewise, even though the situation with the Wii/PS3 isn't quite as dramatic, I am sure that a significant percentage of PS3 owners also own a Wii in Japan, and that number will likely continue to grow over time. And I am sure that nearly all PS3 owners probably own a DS.

This isn't to suggest that some games don't make sense on non-Nintendo platforms. But when Nintendo starts achieving the mass-market penetration that they have with the DS/WII, publishers have to realize that they can't avoid competing with Nintendo simply by avoiding Nintendo platforms.

The numbers speak for themselves. It's just incredible.

 

[Jokeropia]

Now that's domination.

Yes, that generally is the case, but then how do we explain ps3's low tie ratio? The installed base for that isn't very high either, but the tie ratio is horrid. Of course, having crappy games probably explains the gist of it.

PS3's low tie-ratio is indeed an anomaly. Maybe a portion of the audience are buying it just for Blu-Ray?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Yes, that generally is the case, but then how do we explain ps3's low tie ratio? The installed base for that isn't very high either, but the tie ratio is horrid. Of course, having crappy games probably explains the gist of it.

Bluray disks?

 

[nextgeneration]

Now that's domination.PS3's low tie-ratio is indeed an anomaly. Maybe a portion of the audience are buying it just for Blu-Ray?

Bluray disks?

Works for me. Let's chalk it up to that.

 

[apujanata]

If this doesn't illustrate Nintendo's absolute grasp on Japan, then I don't know what else to say. In the current gen home console market, Nintendo has 54.0% of all software sold even though they don't release titles on 2 of the 3 systems. Every other publisher combined (including Sony and Microsoft) accounts for 46.0%. And this is with only 17 titles released by Nintendo, and 242 titles released by everyone else. Yeah, that's right. 17 Nintendo games have outsold all 242 games released by everyone else.

And things are pretty much the exact same in the handheld market. Nintendo has 54.4% of all software sold, whereas every other publisher combined (including Sony) accounts for 45.6%. And this is with only 81 titles released by Nintendo, and 592 titles released by everyone else. Again, 81 Nintendo games have outsold all 592 games released by everyone else.


It is staggering - almost to the point of being unbelievable. Things should slowly improve for 3rd-party percentage on the handheld market with DQ9 and other efforts coming, along with Nintendo seeming to back off of DS development a bit. But it could get even more lopsided in the home console market in the short term with Wii Fit still going strong, plus Smash Bros. and Mario Kart coming soon.

In any case, this is why I laugh whenever developers or publishers (or even fellow GAFfers) make comments suggesting that publishers should avoid Nintendo systems because they don't want to compete with Nintendo. The simple fact is - they already are competing with Nintendo, regardless of what system they put their titles on. And they are losing that competition - badly.

I would suspect that almost everyone who owns a PSP also owns a DS in Japan, so whenever a PSP owner buys a Nintendo published DS game, that is money that could have gone towards a PSP game. The publisher was still competing with Nintendo for that money even though they made an effort to avoid the Nintendo platform. Likewise, even though the situation with the Wii/PS3 isn't quite as dramatic, I am sure that a significant percentage of PS3 owners also own a Wii in Japan, and that number will likely continue to grow over time. And I am sure that nearly all PS3 owners probably own a DS.

This isn't to suggest that some games don't make sense on non-Nintendo platforms. But when Nintendo starts achieving the mass-market penetration that they have with the DS/WII, publishers have to realize that they can't avoid competing with Nintendo simply by avoiding Nintendo platforms.

The numbers speak for themselves. It's just incredible.

Very good point, Dalthien. I never thought that PSP game will still compete with DS game in the way you put it. The only assumption in your part is the percentage of overlap between DS & PSP (and PS3 & Wii).

I sure hope third party realizes that very soon. A market monopolized by Nintendo is not healthy, for both us gamers and Nintendo itself (since they will get complacent, and the quality of their games will go downhill).

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I believe Wii has the highest software sales of any system after 1 year ever, actually.

This does seem likely, though our sources of information for PS2/GBA/DS after one year are nowhere near as complete as this thread's software info.

 

[Pellham]

This does seem likely, though our sources of information for PS2/GBA/DS after one year are nowhere near as complete as this thread's software info.

What's the closest/approximate software data you have for the PS2/GBA/DS for their first year?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

What's the closest/approximate software data you have for the PS2/GBA/DS for their first year?

Using just the Famitsu data I've got in my site, after 52 weeks things come to

GBA: 7.2 million
PS2: 7.9 million
In both cases this is just from the weekly Top 30s, and anything that made it onto the overall Top 100 of each first year, so there's a lot unseen.

DS: 7.4 million
but by week 56 when there'd been a few more holiday weeks and the data for the 2005 Top 500 fills in a lot more data it's up to 12.6 million

 

[Odysseus]

those tie-ratios suck. every single one of them.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

those tie-ratios suck. every single one of them.

In the land of suck, the kinda-suck is king.

 

[Odysseus]

In the land of suck, the kinda-suck is king.

i mean, you know it by looking at media-create charts every week, but the basic truth of the matter in japan is "ds or bust." and, for that matter, it might be "get the freak out of japan because we can't complete with nintendo."

 

[TunaLover]

Just a quick software analysis:

Wii/PS3/X360:

2,972,373 - Wii 3rd-parties
2.026.259 - PS3 3rd-parties
1,489,957 - X360 3rd-parties

But when Nintendo starts achieving the mass-market penetration that they have with the DS/WII, publishers have to realize that they can't avoid competing with Nintendo simply by avoiding Nintendo platforms.

Rock solid thread. Third parties have been in that mind-setup for a long time now, is a vicious circle. Considering that the third party suport for Wii is fairly meh, those numbers are quite incredible.

 

[SapientWolf]

Wii Fit is better than SMG confirmed total!

749,385 Wii Fit (Nintendo) (12/1/07) - through Dec 23/07 (MC)
664,000 Super Mario Galaxy (Nintendo) (11/1/07) - rounded off through Dec 23/07 (MC)

Poor Zack & Wiki

That is... disconcerting.

 

[ForzaItalia]

How about worldwide consoles sales total. Is 360 still ahead of the Wii? Anyone have those figures?

Thanks.

 

[nextgeneration]

How about worldwide consoles sales total. Is 360 still ahead of the Wii? Anyone have those figures?

Thanks.

This is what I currently have. These numbers are understated, but they give you a fairly rough idea of where each console stands.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8706465&postcount=1066

 

[ForzaItalia]

This is what I currently have. These numbers are understated, but they give you a fairly rough idea of where each console stands.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8706465&postcount=1066

Thanks.

I am utterly shocked that Sony is getting pounded so bad. Do you guys think they could ever pass the other two? I honestly thought this generation would be much closer. I never expected this Wii success nor the low PS3 sales.

 

[Deku]

PS3 will pass the 360 eventually on its strengths in Japan and Europe. Relatively speaking.

 

[nextgeneration]

Thanks.

I am utterly shocked that Sony is getting pounded so bad. Do you guys think they could ever pass the other two? I honestly thought this generation would be much closer. I never expected this Wii success nor the low PS3 sales.

In US, PS3 will not overtake 360. After December NPD comes out, the 360 should have a 6 million lead over PS3. The best chance the PS3 has of overtaking 360 is on a worldwide level, but I have doubts about that. As for overtaking Wii, it's not going to happen.

 

[Deku]

In US, PS3 will not overtake 360. After December NPD comes out, the 360 should have a 6 million lead over PS3. The best chance the PS3 has of overtaking 360 is on a worldwide level, but I have doubts about that. As for overtaking Wii, it's not going to happen.

Never say never, but it's unlikely.

 

[nextgeneration]

Never say never, but it's unlikely.

Heehee, let me just preface this with what I mean by it's not going to happen. It's not going to happen by the time one of the manufacturers (Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo) come out with their next generation systems. For me, once any of those manufacturers come out with 720, ps4, or wii 2, that's when this generation ends for me. When this generation ends, I would put money that Wii will be at the number one spot worldwide.

 

[Dalthien]

A whole slew of updates!

A couple of milestones that may be of interest to some:

Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles tops 200k
Mario Strikers Charged tops 100k


Also, it's interesting to see the similarity for Nintendo and Sony between their respective platforms.

For average sales per title, Nintendo is at 670k on DS, and 636k on Wii. And Sony is at 80k on PS3, and 76k on PSP. The numbers don't mean much of anything anyway, other than that Nintendo has been insanely successful with both platforms. But it caught my eye that each publisher seems to be performing so similarly on each of their own platforms at this moment in time.

 

[Dalthien]

All charts updated!

And the DS Tie Ratio finally moved ahead of the X360 Tie Ratio for the first time (on these charts). Although it is so close that one decent new release on the X360, or one week of strong DS hardware sales could reverse that again in no time.

 

[Vilix]

A whole slew of updates!

A couple of milestones that may be of interest to some:

Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles tops 200k
Mario Strikers Charged tops 100k


Also, it's interesting to see the similarity for Nintendo and Sony between their respective platforms.

For average sales per title, Nintendo is at 670k on DS, and 636k on Wii. And Sony is at 80k on PS3, and 76k on PSP. The numbers don't mean much of anything anyway, other than that Nintendo has been insanely successful with both platforms. But it caught my eye that each publisher seems to be performing so similarly on each of their own platforms at this moment in time.

Are these strickly third party sales, or are they first, second, and third party sales?

 

[Dalthien]

Are these strickly third party sales, or are they first, second, and third party sales?

I was referring to the titles published by both Nintendo and Sony.

As it currently stands, Nintendo has published 83 games on the DS with average sales per game of 674k, and they have published 17 games on the Wii with average sales per game of 659k.

Sony has published 40 games on the PSP with average sales per game of 77k, and they have published 14 games on the PS3 with average sales of 81k.

I was just commenting on how odd it was that both Nintendo and Sony seem to be having nearly identical results (average sales per game) on each of their own platforms with their own 1st-party published titles.

 

[Tailzo]

Seeing these numbers, makes it even more clear how clearly Nintendo is dominating Japan. While it's nice to see they have a great success with their strategy, I hope this doesn't mean dropped support for the 2 other consoles from Japanese developers.

 

[Phife Dawg]

Thanks.

Seeing sales for RE:UC side by side with the games for other system really gives you an idea of how well this has performed.

 

[donny2112]

Seeing sales for RE:UC side by side with the games for other system really gives you an idea of how well this has performed.

RE:UC has performed well. However, comparing it to the craptastic sales for the PS3/360 software in Japan is not a good way to come to this conclusion.

 

[Phife Dawg]

RE:UC has performed well. However, comparing it to the craptastic sales for the PS3/360 software in Japan is not a good way to come to this conclusion.

This is true, seeing sales for PS3 just made me realize how "young" this gen still is. At this stage it's quite a success.

 

[Dalthien]

Charts updated.

Wii software has now surpassed 15 million units sold.


Also, just to provide a little perspective to all the 3rd-party discussion that has been going on in the Media Create thread:

WII 3rd-party sales - 3,159,930
PS3 3rd-party sales - 2,572,813

Yeah, the WII has had more 3rd-party titles released, but a lot of them have been ultra low-budget shovelware titles. Meanwhile, the PS3 has had Dynasty Warriors 6, Dynasty Warriors: Gundam, Winning Eleven 2008, Devil May Cry 4, Ridge Racer 7, Virtua Fighter 5, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, etc.

You could add up the development and marketing budgets of all the WII 3rd-party titles, and it would be a fraction of the PS3 budgets, so the quantity of titles is more than offset by the fact that the PS3 has received the higher profile titles. And yet even though the WII hasn't had any substantial 3rd-party releases yet in 2008, 3rd-parties have still sold more software on the WII than on the PS3 up until now. That may change before long (I'm not sure what the release schedules look like over the next few months), but as of now, neither platform has been anything special for 3rd-parties. But for publishers looking at making a home console title aimed at the Japanese market, the WII has shown that 3rd-parties can sell just as much software on the WII as they can on the PS3, and they can do so with far smaller budgets on the WII.

That's really not a bad position for the WII to be in right now.

 

[donny2112]

WII 3rd-party sales - 3,159,930
PS3 3rd-party sales - 2,572,813

That ... reminds me ... of almost exactly ... the PSP / DS breakdown at one of your updates. Wow. IIRC, Monorojo took that opportunity to say how well the PSP was doing in third-party sales despite lagging so far behind in hardware.

Ha, ha. Scary.

 

[Redd]

Charts updated.

Wii software has now surpassed 15 million units sold.


Also, just to provide a little perspective to all the 3rd-party discussion that has been going on in the Media Create thread:

WII 3rd-party sales - 3,159,930
PS3 3rd-party sales - 2,572,813

.

Wow that's pretty good for the ps3 considering the lead the Wii has over them.

 

[felipeko]

Wow that's pretty good for the ps3 considering the lead the Wii has over them.

But it's not when you consider the quality and caliber of the games released...

 

[botticus]

That ... reminds me ... of almost exactly ... the PSP / DS breakdown at one of your updates. Wow. IIRC, Monorojo took that opportunity to say how well the PSP was doing in third-party sales despite lagging so far behind in hardware.

Ha, ha. Scary.

Wow that's pretty good for the ps3 considering the lead the Wii has over them.

Redd = Monorojo?

 

[donny2112]

Redd = Monorojo?

Oh, crap! He posted four minutes after me, so this obviously isn't some stealth edit thing. :lol I hope it was a joke on Redd's part.

 

[HK-47]

Oh, crap! He posted four minutes after me, so this obviously isn't some stealth edit thing. :lol I hope it was a joke on Redd's part.

The truth revealed?

 

[Redd]

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Arde5643]

:lol :lol :lol :lol

Good one.

 

[Innotech]

This is precisely why the Chevrolet Cavalier is better than the Ferrari Enzo.

I guess if by that you mean the Enzo is overpriced, niche, and intimidating to most people who need a car (and I say that as an enzo fan)
All that is saying is that Sony cornered themselves into a tiny market.

 

[Dalthien]

That ... reminds me ... of almost exactly ... the PSP / DS breakdown at one of your updates. Wow. IIRC, Monorojo took that opportunity to say how well the PSP was doing in third-party sales despite lagging so far behind in hardware.

Ha, ha. Scary.

Wow - good memory donny! I forgot all about that, so I went back to look it up. Here is monorojo's comment:

DS : 3,824,649 (53 titles)
PSP : 3,563,838 (64 titles)

Man, just about equal, altho PSP had more titles out.

Percentage that 3rd party games makes of total software sold...

DS : 21%
PSP : 72%

HUGE DIFFERENCE. Really interesting how unimportant 3rd parties are to DS and how PSP is practically dependant upon them.

And just for fun, Tabris had a similar comment from the same conversation.

Interesting Facts regarding Third Party support:

10 3rd party games on the DS have sold over 100k

13 3rd party games on the PSP have sold over 100k

Nintendo DS has 2x the userbase and is the fad in Japan right now. This PROVES that third party games just don't do that well on a Nintendo system (handheld or console) Unless you're Nintendo, the DS success isn't doing anything for the video game industry except bringing down sales (as if PSP's userbase was higher, third party sales would be higher)

Anyway, yeah - it is interesting to note the similarities between the 3rd-party software sales at this point, even right down to the percentages.

As monorojo pointed out back then (roughly 15 months from launch), % of 3rd-party sales:

DS - 21%
PSP - 72%

And now,

WII - 21%
PS3 - 69%

 

[Innotech]

the problem with saying PSP/Ps3 have better third party sales is that in Ps3s case, its the really big profile games that are selling well. Im sure it makes a couple of big third party publishers happy that their Ps3 games do well, but a truly healthy third party environment should be good news for more than just those large companies. Smaller companies have to survive too and they sure as hell cant afford to develop in HD. But theyre seeing sufficient success on the Wii/DS to stay afloat, and that is truly good for the industry overall, even if it doesnt specifically please hardcore gamers. Thats why the Nintendo platforms are said to have better third party success right now. Not on a game to game basis, but throughout the whole supporting industry.