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[loosus]

Talk about looking to deep into some comments....

Actually, I don't think you have to look very deep into what he said. What he said is pretty clear, provided the translation is even halfway accurate.

 

[kaching]

If S-E wants to debug their software less before sending it to retail, that just makes me all the gladder that I've never really been a fan of their work for the most part.

But I did find this comment made by the N-B exec and cited in the GS article more interesting:

Like Wada, he too sees potential in shifting the billing structure of online games. For example, the game itself could be offered free, and users would be charged for items purchased.

I think this avenue really does need to be explored if pubs plan to continue to shift to a microtransaction-heavy, a la carte model for their content. The initial entry fee for the game needs to be offset accordingly.

 

[Mark Gonzales]

Actually, I don't think you have to look very deep into what he said. What he said is pretty clear, provided the translation is even halfway accurate.

Yes because what he says means they will make buggy games to save money because they can fix them later

 

[loosus]

Yes because what he says means they will make buggy games to save money because they can fix them later

Pretty much.

 

[WYWY]

For example, the game itself could be offered free, and users would be charged for items purchased.

I think this avenue really does need to be explored if pubs plan to continue to shift to a microtransaction-heavy, a la carte model for their content. The initial entry fee for the game needs to be offset accordingly.

The majority of MMORPGs from Asia already do this. Although whether or not this is successful, I do not know yet.

 

[Razoric]

wont it cost more money to get a patching system up and pay programmers after the fact (that have most likely moved on to other projects) to come back and fix some bugs? I dont really understand how this saves money at all unless they dont fix the bugs period.

 

[kaching]

The majority of MMORPGs from Asia already do this. Although whether or not this is successful, I do not know yet.

I took the comment to mean that they were interested in extending that concept beyond just MMORPGs.

 

[Mark Gonzales]

Pretty much.

Yep...you will sell lots of games if they all totally blow until they get patched.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Yep...you will sell lots of games if they all totally blow until they get patched.

He's not saying they aren't going to bug test the games at all pre launch, he's saying that because they can patch them they aren't going to do as much bug testing as they have before on systems that didn't allow them to do this. And people aren't all that happy about that.

 

[DCharlie]

I think this avenue really does need to be explored if pubs plan to continue to shift to a microtransaction-heavy, a la carte model for their content. The initial entry fee for the game needs to be offset accordingly.

this would have to be heavily monitored to stop people taking the piss to be quite honest. If the a la carte model is truly a la carte, then i can't see companies dropping the cost of the game itself that much (especially in Japan)

Microtransactions HAVE to be reasonable. $x for horse armour is taking the piss, if companies start charging for items (especially if you can't EARN those items in game) , course etc... then it could get quite messy.

I expect the publishers to show some common sense... but ... you know...

He's not saying they aren't going to bug test the games at all pre launch, he's saying that because they can patch them they aren't going to do as much bug testing as they have before on systems that didn't allow them to do this. And people aren't all that happy about that.

i'm going to give this one last shot....

Now :
Sony = Our TCR is no bugs, no crazy bugs, no menu flipping bugs, nothing
SE = Our goal is to pass Sonys TCR

PS3 time :
Sony = Our TCR is no bugs, no crazy bugs, no menu flipping bugs, nothing
SE = Our goal is to reduce costs
Sony = but you haven't passed our TCR , we still see these crazy bugs
SE = ... but we are reducing costs
Sony = i couldn't give two shits, pass our TCR or tough...
SE = Okay, we'll get rid of the bugs.
Sony = good boy *throws biscuit*

So - unless Sony are relaxing their TCR, SE not chasing "crazy bugs" means jack shit. They STILL have to pass the same TCR which will require the same testing effort.
I'm just at a loss here, am i alone in this wilderness of bewilderment?

 

[PjotrStroganov]

I doubt patching will be that big of a deal. It's been an "oh noes" for us since Xbox Live launched four years ago and I can only think of one or two games with huge problems...like Wrestlemania on Xbox or something.

I think developers won't "not debug."

Lots of games with smaller but noticable bugs are out for sale though. I don't want a Final Fantasy in this same situation.

 

[HocusPocus]

I think Sony is going to be steamrolled in Japan by the Wii . My prediction hehe.

 

[sinseers]

i think this is getting blown out of context - a lot of crazy bugs still make it through and i'd assume that Sony will not reverse policy and say "well, now you don't have to pass our golive standards!"

i actually like the fact that console stuff can be patched - comparisons are drawn to the PC equivalent, but most patching there is due to the almost infinite number of possible configurations. Patching is a good thing - if i buy a $60 game and a problem has snuck through the gaps, then it's just a case of getting the fix.



it's depressing, i know that i can't enjoy any Xbox/X360 games until i know our Japanese cousins also approve.

The only patch I wanna see in a console game is one that ADDS to it (See Nija Gaiden Hurricane Packs). Anyhting less than that we all might as well be playing PC games.

 

[sinseers]

this would have to be heavily monitored to stop people taking the piss to be quite honest. If the a la carte model is truly a la carte, then i can't see companies dropping the cost of the game itself that much (especially in Japan)

Microtransactions HAVE to be reasonable. $x for horse armour is taking the piss, if companies start charging for items (especially if you can't EARN those items in game) , course etc... then it could get quite messy.

I expect the publishers to show some common sense... but ... you know...




i'm going to give this one last shot....

Now :
Sony = Our TCR is no bugs, no crazy bugs, no menu flipping bugs, nothing
SE = Our goal is to pass Sonys TCR

PS3 time :
Sony = Our TCR is no bugs, no crazy bugs, no menu flipping bugs, nothing
SE = Our goal is to reduce costs
Sony = but you haven't passed our TCR , we still see these crazy bugs
SE = ... but we are reducing costs
Sony = i couldn't give two shits, pass our TCR or tough...
SE = Okay, we'll get rid of the bugs.
Sony = good boy *throws biscuit*

So - unless Sony are relaxing their TCR, SE not chasing "crazy bugs" means jack shit. They STILL have to pass the same TCR which will require the same testing effort.
I'm just at a loss here, am i alone in this wilderness of bewilderment?

That is if they decide to keep the same TCR standards. With new technology comes new (and possibly more relaxed) standards my friend I remeber them ol PS2 TCR testing days. That was one of the few times I actually hated my job as a beta tester. Though i realize how important is was doing that TCR thing.

 

[Ranger X]

Ever heard of $$$ and promise?

"Ok your game is approve if you promise to patch X bug".
It's already going on in the industry.

Also, TRC only prevent major bugs. The game can have more minor bug and glitches than they have now.

Relaxing debugging process is NEVER a good idea for the gamer/consumer.

 

[kaching]

I expect the publishers to show some common sense... but ... you know...

In the early days of digital content distribution, microtransactions, etc. I fully expect a "Wild West" atmosphere to pervade, as we already see. All I was saying is that if publishers expect to be exploring game distribution with a heavy emphasis on the "a la carte" portion, then they really better be looking at reducing the upfront cost, so it's good to see the N-B exec echoing that sentiment.

i'm going to give this one last shot....

Now :
Sony = Our TCR is no bugs, no crazy bugs, no menu flipping bugs, nothing
SE = Our goal is to pass Sonys TCR

PS3 time :
Sony = Our TCR is no bugs, no crazy bugs, no menu flipping bugs, nothing
SE = Our goal is to reduce costs
Sony = but you haven't passed our TCR , we still see these crazy bugs
SE = ... but we are reducing costs
Sony = i couldn't give two shits, pass our TCR or tough...
SE = Okay, we'll get rid of the bugs.
Sony = good boy *throws biscuit*

So - unless Sony are relaxing their TCR, SE not chasing "crazy bugs" means jack shit. They STILL have to pass the same TCR which will require the same testing effort.
I'm just at a loss here, am i alone in this wilderness of bewilderment?

Well, that's certainly a scenario I'd expect one of my fellow SDF members to come up with, but the DC I know would be ready with the snarky rejoinder to that - S-E is major game publisher with significant clout as a result of owning the rights to two of the most beloved RPG franchises ever and they could certainly leverage that clout by threatening to shop around the franchises to other platforms that might be more willing to accomodate their cost reduction plans.

I don't think anyone is really ignoring the safeguards that are in place, but it's still scary when one of the 800 lb gorillas in the game industry starts talking about an interest in shifting their debugging efforts into the post-launch period for their games. TCR compliance is not perfect - note how Sony qualifies which PS1/PS2 games will be BC on the PS3, for example - as I'm sure that through a combination of factors ranging from bugs simply slipping by to an occasional but deliberate relaxation of compliance requirements, there are games that get published for any platform that aren't fully compliant.

 

[Warm Machine]

Because the system has been out for nearly 6 months and still hasn't sold more than the Xbox did in its first week?

Still has sold more than the PS3 did in its Spring launch.






Oh yes, I went there.