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[dog$]

https://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592242994?page=106#2104

This thread saddens me greatly. I know that the Battle.net forums have earned a reputation for rough justice, but I do not believe justice is being served by how people are speaking about Jay’s departure from Diablo III.

I am very proud of the Diablo franchise and what the team was able to accomplish with Diablo III. As a gamer I have enjoyed the game and played for many, many nights with friends and family. I’m not, however, going to use that as an excuse. The Diablo community deserves an even better game from Blizzard and we are committed to improving it. We have a talented team in place and have no intention of stopping work on Diablo III until it is the best game in the franchise.

I’m the only person in this thread who has actually worked with Jay. I hired Jay to head up the Diablo project and had the pleasure of getting to work with him, both in building the team and designing the game. He has great design instincts and has added so much to the franchise with his feel for visceral combat, boss battles, and an unparalleled knack for making it fun to smash bad guys. I’ve worked with many, many designers at Blizzard and Jay is one of the best. He has a great career at Blizzard ahead of him and I guarantee that you will enjoy Jay’s game designs in future Blizzard games.

If you love Diablo as much as we do, then please continue to let us know how you feel we can improve the game. If you still feel the need to dish out blame, then I would prefer you direct it at me. I was the executive producer on the project; I hired Jay and I gave him advice and direction throughout the development process. I was ultimately responsible for the game we released and take full responsibility for the quality of the result.

There's your next target, gentlemen. Have at it.

 

[antitrop]

With StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm coming out in March, you have to feel like Dustin Browder is doing everything in his power to not have a Jay Wilson situation on his hands.

 

[ElyrionX]

I will never get the hate for D3. I played the shit out of it and ended up liking it even more than D2. So many great design decisions in there.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

He has great design instincts and has added so much to the franchise with his feel for visceral combat, boss battles, and an unparalleled knack for making it fun to smash bad guys.

I gave him advice and direction throughout the development process.

Now we know who to blame for the loot and auction house.

 

[antitrop]

I will never get the hate for D3. I played the shit out of it and ended up liking it even more than D2. So many great design decisions in there.

I'm on a different side of that issue. I had a pretty great time with Diablo III, but still totally understand where the haters are coming from.

 

[Valnen]

Off to head up the Torchlight team.

Wouldn't be a downgrade, Torchlight 2 was boring as fuck =(. The skill trees were even more boring than the skill system in Diablo 3...not sure how they pulled that off.

 

[Kalnos]

Now we know who to blame for the loot and auction house.

Well, it was obvious to begin with. Executives push for the game to be designed in such a way that the loot system forces you into using the auction house, and hopefully for them, the real money auction house.

 

[ElyrionX]

I'm on a different side of that issue. I had a pretty great time with Diablo III, but still totally understand where the haters are coming from.

I can see the issues but the things that the game did right just vastly overshadowed the negatives for me.

 

[valeo]

Honestly, all this childish vitriol being flung at Wilson is kind of embarrassing for the gaming community.

 

[Valnen]

Honestly, all this childish vitriol being flung at Wilson is kind of embarrassing for the gaming community.

Yup. Actually I wouldn't even call it childish...even children are better than this. It's just fucking pathetic.

 

[antitrop]

Honestly, all this childish vitriol being flung at Wilson is kind of embarrassing for the gaming community.

It's all overblown because of the "Fuck that loser" comment.
If it weren't for that he wouldn't catch NEARLY as much shit as he has over the past few months, especially the past few days.

But you're still totally right.

 

[valeo]

You'd think Jay Wilson just ate a few babies live on Webcast or something - he managed the creation of a game that was good, just not great. They made a few poor design choices - they admit to that. He also swore on Facebook at a guy (admittedly a guy that should be respected considering the game we're talking about, but still) that was criticising his entire team and his dedicated work for the last 6-7 years. That's it. He's not a saint, but he's far from the cancerous imp you guys are making him out to be.

 

[dog$]

Well, it was obvious to begin with. Executives push for the game to be designed in such a way that the loot system forces you into using the auction house, and hopefully for them, the real money auction house.

And now, as it has been for months, any basis one can have in making this statement is gone from the game.

1) It is an order of magnitude easier now than it was in May to get a character that can run A3MP0 with items only looted, and that puts you at equal footing with everyone else in the game in terms of future loot potential.

2) As long as the RMAH limit is $250, the best items are not found on RMAH, nor were they ever on RMAH.

 

[Kalnos]

I think a lot of people are just excited because they see Wilson stepping down as a sign that things may change and that Blizzard is listening to them.

You'd think Jay Wilson just ate a few babies live on Webcast or something - he managed the creation of a game that was good, just not great. They made a few poor design choices - they admit to that. He also swore on Facebook at a guy (admittedly a guy that should be respected considering the game we're talking about, but still) that was criticising his entire team and his dedicated work for the last 6-7 years. That's it. He's not a saint, but he's far from the cancerous imp you guys are making him out to be.

To clarify, Brevik wasn't really criticizing them at all, he just said they did things differently than he would have because they're different people. His point was that he was happy that players realized the people of Blizzard North made D1/D2 special and not having the name 'Blizzard' on the box.

And now, as it has been for months, any basis one can have in making this statement is gone from the game.

1) It is an order of magnitude easier now than it was in May to get a character that can run A3MP0 with items only looted, and that puts you at equal footing with everyone else in the game in terms of future loot potential.

2) As long as the RMAH limit is $250, the best items are not found on RMAH, nor were they ever on RMAH.

1. That's good.

2. I don't follow the logic in this statement at all.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Yup. Actually I wouldn't even call it childish...even children are better than this. It's just fucking pathetic.

And "Fuck that loser" is neither childish nor pathetic?

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Honestly, all this childish vitriol being flung at Wilson is kind of embarrassing for the gaming community.

It's the internet's turn to reply to the 'fuck that loser' comment. Jay undoubtedly has friends, family, colleagues, and a well paying job to support him through the tragedy of a few days of internet justice.

This is what it's like to be a celebrity. You get the laurels when you succeed, and you get shit on when you fail without grace.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying the rather extreme vitriol is deserved, but some ribbing is to be expected.

 

[dog$]

2. I don't follow the logic in this statement at all.

Being "forced" to use RMAH implies that there's a reason one would look to RMAH for gear.

There isn't.

Even at the present basement value of 25¢ per 1M Gold, the GAH ceiling of 2 Billion means that an item worth 2 Billion gold would have a RMAH value of $1000. This value only increases as the value of gold/dollar increases.

Therefore, items that have a current market value of anything greater than 500M Gold are not posted on RMAH.

Furthermore, the idea that one is "forced" to get any item that has a value of 2B Gold or 500M Gold is totally false. Across my three main characters, the current highest value of any item on them is around 75M tops, and my wiz can run MP10 (the highest possible difficulty) without issue. Are any of them "godly" compared to what else is on the market? No. Do they need to be godly to run the most difficult content of the game? No. Was I ever "forced" to use RMAH to get to this point? No.

RMAH is a dumping ground for mid-tier items. Nothing more.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Being "forced" to use RMAH implies that there's a reason one would look to RMAH for gear.

There isn't.

Even at the present basement value of 25¢ per 1M Gold, the GAH ceiling of 2 Billion means that an item worth 2 Billion gold would have a RMAH value of $1000. This value only increases as the value of gold/dollar increases.

Therefore, items that have a current market value of anything greater than 500M Gold are not posted on RMAH.

Furthermore, the idea that one is "forced" to get any item that has a value of 2B Gold or 500M Gold is totally false. Across my three main characters, the current highest value of any item on them is around 75M tops, and my wiz can run MP10 (the highest possible difficulty) without issue. Are any of them "godly" compared to what else is on the market? No. Do they need to be godly to run the most difficult content of the game? No. Was I ever "forced" to use RMAH to get to this point? No.

RMAH is a dumping ground for mid-tier items. Nothing more.

Doesn't this put the ceiling at $1000?

 

[dog$]

Doesn't this put the ceiling at $1000?

In terms of gold/dollar value, yes, but the RMAH limits the price of listings to $250.

Which, again, is the reason why people who think that it is specifically the RMAH which is "forced" on the player or has the best gear in the game are completely wrong.

 

[Wickerbasket]

In terms of gold/dollar value, yes, but the RMAH limits the price of listings to $250.

Which, again, is the reason why people who think that it is specifically the RMAH which is "forced" on the player or has the best gear in the game is completely false.

Both AH's are technically RMAHes if you can just buy the gold instead. It just adds an extra step.

I'd agree that the game is a lot easier now, but at the lower levels(1-60) this is mostly because buying decent gear off the AH is a lot easier since there's more mid level gear floating about and there's fewer people playing which pushes the prices down.

 

[kirblar]

Have they gone the Valve route and hired an economist(s?) to work on the D3 problem? Because it seems like that's a badly needed step.

 

[Rokal]

If you still feel the need to dish out blame, then I would prefer you direct it at me. I was the executive producer on the project; I hired Jay and I gave him advice and direction throughout the development process. I was ultimately responsible for the game we released and take full responsibility for the quality of the result.

I have a hard time believing that the executive producer actually had a larger impact on the direction of the game than the director. That's simply not how those positions function at any game developer I've seen. Especially, in this case, when the director gave examples multiple times of bad decisions he was directly responsible for making.

Jay Wilson may not deserve the internet hate storm he is getting, but he is responsible for the problems with Diablo 3.

 

[Kalnos]

I understand what you're getting at dog$. Though I never said that players were forced to use the RMAH, just one of the AHs.

 

[dog$]

Both AH's are technically RMAHes if you can just buy the gold instead. It just adds an extra step.

If that's the stance you want to make, don't cite RMAH as the problem. Then we could have skipped the extra step of me talking about GAH/RMAH dynamics and reached this point quicker.

I'd agree that the game is a lot easier now, but at the lower levels(1-60) this is mostly because buying decent gear off the AH is a lot easier since there's more mid level gear floating about

Um, no, not from my recent experience in bringing my barb to 60 at least. Finding items before 42 in particular was amongst rather slim pickings. One primary reason for this:

there's fewer people playing.

Considerably less playing at sub-60 as well.

I understand what you're getting at dog$. Though I never said that players were forced to use the RMAH, just one of the AHs.

OK, well, hopefully I have at least given some understandable basis behind me saying that this is no longer true.

 

[Wickerbasket]

If that's the stance you want to make, don't cite RMAH as the problem. Then we could have skipped the extra step of me talking about GAH/RMAH dynamics and reached this point quicker.Um, no, not from my recent experience in bringing my barb to 60 at least. Finding items before 42 in particular was amongst rather slim pickings. One primary reason for this:
Considerably less playing at sub-60 as well.

OK, well, hopefully I have at least given some understandable basis behind me saying that this is no longer true.

I guess some people just don't agree with Pay To Win games.

The game was clearly designed around the use of the auction house, which explains the abysmal drop rates on legendaries. It lures players in to use the AH so they're tempted to splash out cash for a top tier item, at which point they either buy gold or use the RMAH.

I'd definitely say the RMAH is one of the many reasons the game is so badly designed. You can't have a good loot game if the loot doesn't drop often enough to keep you interested, there's no incentive to keep playing. I have over 200 hours played, 3 legendaries dropped in that time which were all terrible, can you imagine if Diablo 2 had been like that?

 

[antitrop]

Legendaries are the orange items, right?

I found 1 of those in 120 hours of play at release. It was worthless. I gave it to one of the friends I was playing with, who was the correct class for it. He had it replaced before hitting Level 40.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Legendaries are the orange items, right?

I found 1 of those in 120 hours of play at release.

That's actually pretty lucky, the drop rate was even worse at release.

 

[Tremis]

I never found a legendary in ~100 hours. I'm glad I never found one now, knowing how terribly disappointed I would have been.

 

[antitrop]

That's actually pretty lucky, the drop rate was even worse at release.

Know how I found it?

From kicking a barrel in Act 1 Nightmare.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Know how I found it?

From kicking a barrel in Act 1 Nightmare.

Barrels were the way I found my first.

 

[Tremis]

Know how I found it?

From kicking a barrel in Act 1 Nightmare.

Remember when they had the bright idea to stop breakables from dropping items entirely? That's the legacy Wilson leaves behind.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Barrels were the way I found my first.

I found my first legendary in the secret level, and it was worse than most blue weapons the same level. I'm pretty sure it was a joke item, at least I hope it was.

 

[antitrop]

Remember when they had the bright idea to stop breakables from dropping items entirely? That's the legacy Wilson leaves behind.

I don't, actually.

Because I stopped playing Diablo III before the end of May.

 

[Wickerbasket]

I don't, actually.

Because I stopped playing Diablo III before the end of May.

I think I'm some kind of sucker, because I keep going back after every patch to see if it's fun yet.

And don't get me wrong, it can be fun for about 15min periods of just wrecking monsters all over the place. Still a shit loot game though.

vvv Edit: MYE, you should consider playing the lottery.

 

[MYE]

3 legendaries in I think 90 hours or maybe less

 

[Sophia]

I have near 200 hours of playtime both before and after the patch, and only ever saw one legendary personally drop in Act 1 inferno. It was garbage.

 

[The Gipper]

Know how I found it?

From kicking a barrel in Act 1 Nightmare.

The irony being that later they decided barrels couldn't drop them anymore. Not sure if they reverted it later, but still very funny.

I actually hated that a lot; they treated the class balancing as if it was World of Warcraft, where subscribers whine and moan at them way too much and they have to worry about it, so you see changes far, far too often. It seems like if anyone figured something out that worked well and was fun, they would change it in the next patch. Treasure chest farming runs? Nah patch that shit. Demon Hunter awesome orbs of death lightning? Nahh patch that shit.

Can't have something upsetting the balance in our goddamn PVE game; that'd ruin our auction house.

Diablo 2, which actually like had both PVE and PVP, got plenty of time every patch for people to get used to builds and things. They were a lot less worried about changing things that were a little messed up ASAP, and it made for a more satisfying experience because that thing you figured out and found fun wasn't made irrelevant in two weeks every goddamn time.

He has great design instincts and has added so much to the franchise with his feel for visceral combat, boss battles, and an unparalleled knack for making it fun to smash bad guys.

This is actually the one thing they got very right. The actual... gamefeel or whatever, the clicking and the bashing and the sounds that come up and all that good shit was very strong and satisfying.

Too bad it was wasted on a game where almost everything else went wrong

 

[MYE]

I think I'm some kind of sucker, because I keep going back after every patch to see if it's fun yet.

And don't get me wrong, it can be fun for about 15min periods of just wrecking monsters all over the place. Still a shit loot game though.

vvv Edit: MYE, you should consider playing the lottery.

Only one was of any use to me though

 

[Sophia]

The irony being that later they decided barrels couldn't drop them anymore. Not sure if they reverted it later, but still very funny.

I actually hated that a lot; they treated the class balancing as if it was World of Warcraft, where subscribers whine and moan at them way too much and they have to worry about it, so you see changes far, far too often. It seems like if anyone figured something out that worked well and was fun, they would change it in the next patch. Treasure chest farming runs? Nah patch that shit. Demon Hunter awesome orbs of death lightning? Nahh patch that shit.

Can't have something upsetting the balance in our goddamn PVE game; that'd ruin our auction house.

Diablo 2, which actually like had both PVE and PVP, got plenty of time every patch for people to get used to builds and things. They were a lot less worried about changing things that were a little messed up ASAP, and it made for a more satisfying experience because that thing you figured out and found fun wasn't made irrelevant in two weeks every goddamn time.

The most hilarious part is that their method of balance that you described isn't really balanced at all. Whack a mole balancing doesn't work, didn't work in WoW, didn't work here, has never worked, and it never will work.

 

[Fularu]

In over 200 hours of lvl 60 gametime, I've found more than 75 legendaries, and that's a prety low number.

Either you guys are the unluckiest guys on earth or you're just lying.

 

[antitrop]

In over 200 hours of lvl 60 gametime, I've found more than 75 legendaries, and that's a prety low number.

Either you guys are the unluckiest guys on earth or you're just lying.

Not in fucking May you didn't, lol.

 

[PantherAttacks]

I don't think the criticism is childish or pathetic. People waited a long time for this game, they were passionate fans of the series. Then Blizzard delivered a sequel unfit to be called a Diablo game and then rudely insulted the original creator of the series. They brought this criticism on themselves by showing such disregard for the original games.

 

[The Gipper]

In over 200 hours of lvl 60 gametime, I've found more than 75 legendaries, and that's a prety low number.

Either you guys are the unluckiest guys on earth or you're just lying.

Did the quest for an extra 7% crit damage and 200 more dps make you feel dead inside.

Nothing legendary about legendaries which only have minor stat increases or decreases as their differentiating features

 

[Deadly]

In over 200 hours of lvl 60 gametime, I've found more than 75 legendaries, and that's a prety low number.

Either you guys are the unluckiest guys on earth or you're just lying.

Legendary drops were fucking abysmal before. I played ~300 hours and I found maybe 5 MAX and they were all shit.

 

[Valnen]

And "Fuck that loser" is neither childish nor pathetic?

Immature? Definitely. But also understandable to an extent.

The internet response though is childish and pathetic FAR beyond Jay's comment.

 

[Fularu]

Not in fucking May you didn't, lol.

What I found in may is irrelevant. The game has changed.

 

[EscapingJail]

Sold all my items awhile back for $300. Had about 4ish months of fun playing. Was worth my $60 on release.

Yeah sure it's not the greatest game in the world, but it's been supported(patched) more than alot of the other garbage that comes out these days.

Good try Jay, even though I can understand everyone's hate.

 

[The Gipper]

What I found in may is irrelevant. The game has changed.

How can the immense amount of lost goodwill be irrelevant though?

The shitty restaurant that tasted like hell and gave you food poisoning totally got a new chef, you can't criticise it any more, you ate at it too early so your opinion is invalid.

That seems silly to me.

 

[Valnen]

How can the immense amount of lost goodwill be irrelevant though?

The shitty restaurant that tasted like hell and gave you food poisoning totally got a new chef, you can't criticise it any more, you ate at it too early so your opinion is invalid.

That seems silly to me.

If something has changed for the better then yeah, criticizing it on how it used to be is dumb.

 

[Wedge7]

What I found in may is irrelevant. The game has changed.

The hell you talking about?

Of course its relevant. When they played, the drop rates for legendaries WERE shit. They drastically increased the rate of drops since then in newer patches. Your original statement was that either they were horribly unlucky or lying. Of course the game is better now. They were just saying at the time that the drop rates were total shit. They were.