SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yep. he needs to stfu and disappear. no one will ever take him seriously.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Jim Ryan: PlayStation about big blockbuster games that cost a lot to make, Game Pass model would not make financial sense
- Thread starter Rolla
- Start date
Antwix
Member
Microsoft makes fucktons of money at an enterprise level unlike Sony. They can afford to bleed money to get people to the Xbox platform.
tryDEATH
Member
I will be what ever you need me to be, so you can live and be happy in your walled of Garden of Eden where everything is rosy and nothing negative ever happens.
tryDEATH
Member
The only person that got touched was Sony fans by Jim Ryan.
no_sea_comemierda
Banned
Blend money huh thts how business works for u?
Please, investors been wanting to get rid of Xbox division and all depts have set budgets, at this point Sony is murdering them in profits and revenue in gaming division. Stop thinking that funds from different depts cross pollinate like that, each Dept has to holds its own and generate profit, this isn't charity. Microsoft does not have more money specifically for gaming than Playstation thts not how this goes.no_sea_comemierda
Banned
Seriously with those preorders tht sold out abd they flew to buy and tht exclusive next gen demon souls thyll be playing at launch tht looks better than anything shown during any presentation
Cross gen bb lol
DeaDPo0L84
Member
I have said in the past that the gamepass model doesn't really do much for me. With the limited time I have I typically know exactly what I want to play. I have never come home, scrolled through a bunch of games (like I would on a streaming service) and found a random game I genuinely wanted to play. I 100% understand why the gamepass model is good for others and so it should remain an option for those people. In regards to what Jim Ryan said the Playstation exclusives will be the ONLY reason I buy a PS5 console so he is right that their style of 1st party offerings usually go unmatched and will remain a driving force for why the PS5 console remains a worthy purchase for many.
Fbh
Member
I don't see why this is controversial or why people are upset about it, its true.
Sony primarily makes AAA single player focused games that you can realistically beat in 15-40 hours. That just doesn't fit well with a subscription service. Why the fuck would I pay $120 for TLOU2 + Tsushima if I can just pay $10 to subscribe to a hypothetical Sony gamepass for a month and play them both.
You can either have Sony continue making expensive, single player focused games with very high production values, or you can have them releasing all their exclusives day 1 on a subscription. You can't have both.
Movie/TV streaming is the exact same thing. Regardless of what ends up happening to theaters, you aren't going to get the next Avengers movie day 1 on Disney+ as part of the $7 subscription, they're going to do the same stuff they did with Mulan.
What would make sense for Sony is having both. Sell the games regularly for a premium price for the people that want to own them and have it day 1, and then once some time has passed, the game has become cheaper and is in the $20 range you put it on the subscription service.
Sony primarily makes AAA single player focused games that you can realistically beat in 15-40 hours. That just doesn't fit well with a subscription service. Why the fuck would I pay $120 for TLOU2 + Tsushima if I can just pay $10 to subscribe to a hypothetical Sony gamepass for a month and play them both.
You can either have Sony continue making expensive, single player focused games with very high production values, or you can have them releasing all their exclusives day 1 on a subscription. You can't have both.
Movie/TV streaming is the exact same thing. Regardless of what ends up happening to theaters, you aren't going to get the next Avengers movie day 1 on Disney+ as part of the $7 subscription, they're going to do the same stuff they did with Mulan.
What would make sense for Sony is having both. Sell the games regularly for a premium price for the people that want to own them and have it day 1, and then once some time has passed, the game has become cheaper and is in the $20 range you put it on the subscription service.
Last edited:
TheAssist
Member
Honestly I think we can be happy that Sony and MS both follow at least somewhat different strategies here.
we can argue all we want, in the end some models are better than others for certain people.
I am not a value oriented gamer atm. I care for big AAA exclusives. I am ready to pay more if that means I can get huge games, with great tech and cool stories and characters. Thats what I want out of gaming. Period.
But others might really like playing lots of different games. Older AAA's, lots of indys, especially coop games with friends. And throw MS exclusives into the mix to round out the package. They get more games for less money which is great for a lot of people and I get that. Even if I personally dont care for playing 2 year old games and I never like any MS franchise.
With PC, PS5, XBox series, the switch, VR and phones there are so many ways to play these days. My only hope is that everyone is successful enough to keep doing what they are doing
. Because the worse thing to happen is everyone gathering down at the lowest common denominator.
we can argue all we want, in the end some models are better than others for certain people.
I am not a value oriented gamer atm. I care for big AAA exclusives. I am ready to pay more if that means I can get huge games, with great tech and cool stories and characters. Thats what I want out of gaming. Period.
But others might really like playing lots of different games. Older AAA's, lots of indys, especially coop games with friends. And throw MS exclusives into the mix to round out the package. They get more games for less money which is great for a lot of people and I get that. Even if I personally dont care for playing 2 year old games and I never like any MS franchise.
With PC, PS5, XBox series, the switch, VR and phones there are so many ways to play these days. My only hope is that everyone is successful enough to keep doing what they are doing
except for mobile gaming. That can die in hell
tryDEATH
Member
Seriously with those preorders tht sold out abd they flew to buy and tht exclusive next gen demon souls thyll be playing at launch tht looks better than anything shown during any presentation
You are rebuying a game that already exists, but are paying full price, you sure got it good.
I really don't understand how anyone can look at the first party offerings and then disagree with Sony's position on this. I know taste is subjective and all that jazz, but I don't see how anyone could objectively expect the same level of quality if every first party game went straight into a rental bin (essentially).
D
Deleted member 740922
Unconfirmed Member
Xbox just do this and count me in:
You'd still get people on here bleating about how that will harm the industry
Keihart
Member
I mean, i kinda agree with it, but they are now pushing 70 and 80 usd for them, that seems kinda excesive. How about just scaling back those budgets if you think you are not gonna sell that much ?
BTW, i fucking hate PS EU management, i hope they get canned soon. At least crazy Ken was entertaining and kinda of a mad scientist.
BTW, i fucking hate PS EU management, i hope they get canned soon. At least crazy Ken was entertaining and kinda of a mad scientist.
Last edited:
TheGrat1
Member
Agreed. I look at MS' long-term Gamepass plans as thus:
"One service to rule them all, one gamepass to find them. One sale price to bring them all and in the darkness bind them."
Last edited:
Explosive Zombie
Banned
So, what's the biggest "blockbuster" style movie Netflix has had? 6 Underground maybe? Doesn't compare to what you get in theaters and how long has Netflix been doing streaming? The idea seems to be streaming services lower the quality of product, have yet to see proof that isn't true.
no_sea_comemierda
Banned
Yup tht looks better than a new game tht has a gazillion dollar budget. I sure am and I've replayed demon souls three times. This looks like a new game but I'll also be playing Spiderman, Horizon, Sackboy, Ratchet, etc you know games actually showed on a console, you know ganes that actually look good
no_sea_comemierda
Banned
Nah tht movie with helmsworth was pretty good, big budget movie with well known actor. Also some of their shows are high budget and great e.g. First season of Altered Carbon and there are more.
Bruno_Arrais85
Member
Lol your notion of how business works is kinda cute.
tryDEATH
Member
Yup tht looks better than a new game tht has a gazillion dollar budget. I sure am and I've replayed demon souls three times. This looks like a new game but I'll also be playing Spiderman, Horizon, Sackboy, Ratchet, etc you know games actually showed on a console, you know ganes that actually look good
You totally will my guy Spider-man DLC on PS4, Sackboy AAAA game, and Rachet and Clank 15 will be so dope when ever that comes out.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I wasn't arguing how good something was, I'm talking big. Extraction with Chris Hemsworth is not as big as TENET or or an MCU outing.
Hinedorf
Banned
Here's where I agree and disagree with this sentiment. Putting all the big budget games on the streaming service is without a doubt a complete financial catastrophe. But also putting NONE of those big budget games on the streaming service completely devalues the point of keeping a long term subscription.
I likely wouldn't be still subscribed to PC Gamepass if at least a little bit along the way they didn't impress me with the big titles I've been able to play. Indies won't make for a long term subscription.
I likely wouldn't be still subscribed to PC Gamepass if at least a little bit along the way they didn't impress me with the big titles I've been able to play. Indies won't make for a long term subscription.
no_sea_comemierda
Banned
no_sea_comemierda
Banned
Doesnt have to be as big, it's still big budget. That's my point, it's not Tom from down the block acting in it but a big budget actor they had to pay alot and it wasn't shot in my back yard.
Last edited:
This is nonsense. Marriage Story, The Irishman, Uncut Gems, Roma. All genre cinema that became critically acclaimed and won countless awards.
Great films that either wouldn't have done well in the grey blob Marvel cinema landscape, or that wouldn't have been considered by traditional studios at all.
If that's not your point in support of Gamepass, I think your analogy is broken.
Yeah, whatever Jim, you slimey pos.
If you're gonna fuck around and use MS's playbook by putting your games on PC to die at hands of piracy, put them on last gen console to take shine off new console, and use misleading wording around a game's exclusitivity (FF16 vs ROTTR), then you can at least follow XB's lead when it comes to BACKWARDS COMPATABILITY and making all games on PSNow DOWNLOADABLE instead of streaming-only for some of them.
If you're gonna fuck around and use MS's playbook by putting your games on PC to die at hands of piracy, put them on last gen console to take shine off new console, and use misleading wording around a game's exclusitivity (FF16 vs ROTTR), then you can at least follow XB's lead when it comes to BACKWARDS COMPATABILITY and making all games on PSNow DOWNLOADABLE instead of streaming-only for some of them.
LittleBusters
Banned
Game Pass doesn't seem conducive to generating GOTY-caliber titles which seems anti-consumer to me. I wonder what Microsoft's grand 20 year strategy here is? Carve out 10% market share forever and ever and be fine with that?
tryDEATH
Member
Yup and youll be chillin with Craig looking at the skies
Ugly people need love too, so you leave Craig alone.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Guys... you're not understanding the argument. They aren't getting big budget blockbusters, Extraction cost less than a 1/3rd what many theatrical blockbusters cost to make, nevermind these other movies being listed. It's not about big budget movies being better movies either, it's about them existing AT ALL.
Azurro
Banned
You are trying sooo hard. Keep it up mate, I'm sure you'll make the Playstation 5 fail. Maybe the next post will do it, I believe in you.
JCK75
Member
10 million subs at $10 a month is a constant revenue stream of $100,000,000 per month.
I imagine third party titles may be a struggle, but any first party title would fair just fine at that rate.
tryDEATH
Member
You are trying sooo hard. Keep it up mate, I'm sure you'll make the Playstation 5 fail. Maybe the next post will do it, I believe in you.
I can't make PS5 fail, there are simply too many loyalist being herded.
Journey
Banned
Netflix is delusional, thank GOD Blockbuster beat them out or we wouldn't have massive blockbusters like The Lord of the Rings... Phew!
Last edited:
The Irishman had a not incomparable budget to Guardians of the Galaxy.
Where do you wanna move those goalposts to next?
no_sea_comemierda
Banned
Lol yeah I give up debating this. There are definitely some big budget shows and movies on Netflix.
NullZ3r0
Banned
Reads like a SCE Press Release.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Ah yes, Jim “the bastion of truth” Ryan. Definitely hasn’t been caught making any false or misleading PR statements. Absolutely deserves our trust.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
It was less and you're not adjusting for inflation. From the same year as Guardians was Transformers 4 which cost 210 million. That said... where did the budget go?
Last edited:
It was like $10-20m less when all is factored in, and when do we ever adjust for inflation? Gone with the Wind is still one of the most successful films of all time, but I don't see it up there with Avengers.
I agree with the other dude. You're off your rocker if you really think bringing up Transformers 4 in a conversation about the dangers of streaming services is a good idea. Give me more Marriage Story, please. Give me Roma. Give me films worth watching and games worth playing, not mass-market bullshit aimed at teenagers.
Not that that stuff shouldn't exist. But if film fans got pissy because "WILL NOBODY THINK OF THE AVENGERS AND MICHAEL BAY" they'd be laughed out of any fanatic community.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Go read about netflix debts.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Yeah, you guys are making some of the worst arguments about this. A movie today with Gone with the Wind's budget would be a small movie, direct to streaming/video, not a theatrical release, unless you adjusted for inflation.
Expensive films also come in the form of TENET, Dune, Blade Runner 2049 and so forth, so you can kindly shove that argument about quality.
I stuck to the year that's all. Adjusted for inflation Transformers 4 cost 231 million, when Netflix is dumping that much cash on a film let me know, and also... you do know Irishman DID have a limited theatrical run, right? It was before it went to streaming... so imagine the XBOX Gamepass equivalent... a big enough game spends a month selling for 60 then hits Gamepass. How many people would feel duped?
I don't know where to start with this.
I didn't mention Gone With The Wind's budget. It was your weird use of inflation.
Nobody had said expensive movies can't be good. Not a single person.
Your Irishman comparison is actually so bad its not worth replying to.
What exactly is your point, if you have one beneath your Gamepass bashing? That Netflix outspending traditional studios overall didn't count, because they don't routinely spend exactly $238m. Even though the film example you gave me that did was trash?
And so therefore, Gamepass also doesn't work? Even though you've specifically said there's still room for quality, overall it fails because they're not spending the equivalent of $238m?
Even though we know they are, with Halo and The Initiative. And I swear if you make a Craig joke after bringing up Transformers 4, it'll be pretty obvious you're talking nonsense, as if it wasn't already.
Can you see why I'm confused? You're ignoring all the success Netflix has had and the huge amount of money they're spending to make a point that we already know doesn't apply to Gamepass.
thelastword
Banned
All the people talking gamepass, which is doing nothing for MS's profitability and rather sinking them even more and devaluing their games, go ahead, believe that Gamepass is anything viable for MS in the coming years......MS could not sell their games at $60, there's no way they would ask for $70 for crackdown, they have put themselves in that position. Even Gears, Forza and Halo; people are just waiting on a few dollar subs to play these when they launch....
People are willing to buy Sony games in droves at launch because they are quality games......Over 4 million of LOU2 in under two days at $60......That is what they know, they know their games are valuable and with the rising costs of production, they are asking 10 more per game, the only company pushing graphics, animation, physics, highly detailed characters and environments with great gameplay in our single player games. Nobody is doing it on their level. They have to recoup costs somehow. If Sony sold the PS5 for $600, people would cry, they are selling it for cheaper than it's worth, but are asking gamers to invest a bit more in software, people are up in arms.....Sometimes I think console gamers are the most unreasonable bunch, they want a $299 console in 2020 and wish games were $40, but are the first to come and call a game shit, with shit graphics and gameplay when the budget and talent isn't there to produce it.....
You can't want gold standards at brothel prices....
People are willing to buy Sony games in droves at launch because they are quality games......Over 4 million of LOU2 in under two days at $60......That is what they know, they know their games are valuable and with the rising costs of production, they are asking 10 more per game, the only company pushing graphics, animation, physics, highly detailed characters and environments with great gameplay in our single player games. Nobody is doing it on their level. They have to recoup costs somehow. If Sony sold the PS5 for $600, people would cry, they are selling it for cheaper than it's worth, but are asking gamers to invest a bit more in software, people are up in arms.....Sometimes I think console gamers are the most unreasonable bunch, they want a $299 console in 2020 and wish games were $40, but are the first to come and call a game shit, with shit graphics and gameplay when the budget and talent isn't there to produce it.....
You can't want gold standards at brothel prices....
A.Romero
Member
Netflix is a profitable business.
Netflix Gross Profit 2010-2023 | NFLX
Netflix annual/quarterly gross profit history and growth rate from 2010 to 2023. Gross profit can be defined as the profit a company makes after deducting the variable costs directly associated with making and selling its products or providing its services. <ul...www.macrotrends.net
Netflix is a particular animal because their shows are amortized over a long period of time so for example if a show costed 4 million to make and they decide to amortize it over 4 years, they would list the expense as 1 million per year. Truth is that they have been growing a lot in pretty much every sense but they have also almost tripled the cost per subscriber over the last few years. This means that they are burning a lot of cash and betting on the future which is troublesome as other services arise and capture mind share.
The truth is that media service like Netflix are still a bet. They did revolutionized the market by offering completely new which also happened to destroy other competitors in the traditional markets but that doesn't mean that in the long run they will actually produce a profit. They could end up being absorbed by a competitor like Disney.
Gaming sub services have been surfacing all around but they nobody is sure they will be a success. Of course a company like Microsoft would have all kinds of experts drafting forecasts and if they took on this strategy is because they know the risk and decided it's a good approach.
In my opinion this could go either way because:
- Just as Netflix predicted, they could only rely on the competition's products for a time before they catch up and offered similar services and/or decided to stop licensing their content as an strategic move. Microsoft needs to quickly increase their own first party production to protect themselves and their service. Luckily it seems Microsoft did their homework and they have purchased studios and are getting ready to do just that.
- Netflix has thousands of movies and shows but a lot of them are not really attractive enough to justify a sub, they are just there as a secondary benefit. The same with a service like gamepass: nobody is going to pay the sub (whatever the amount) to play a 10 year old game endlessly mainly because that's not typical gamer behaviour and because there is a point where it makes more sense to buy the game. New content needs to be added all the time and it must be high quality.
- The perception of value is high so people will think twice before cancelling even if they don't use the service a lot. The typical comparison would be to buy a game on the regular model and those prices are climbing. Just as some have stated here, a new first party title equals several month of subs.
- There is a high risk of not achieving the breaking point in time meaning not enough subscribers will join by the time Microsoft's subsidizing the service goal is met. You have to have a lot of recurrent subscribers to compensate for all the income you might (or might not) be missing through the regular model. Including third parties that are offering their games there.
- Most games don't have long legs so their actual profit window is shortly after release. After that is just a sleeping asset. Gamepass offers an outlet so publishers can put their games there and make something back which wouldn't happen on a regular model (older games not found or the used game market)
Microsoft is placing a huge bet and I think is good for the customer to have these kind of options but I understand why other companies are not jumping onto it. They are waiting and letting Microsoft carry all the risk. A company like Nintendo or Sony would still be able to enter the market even late because they have valuable development capabilities and licensing that people will want to play. In fact, if Sony or Nintendo pulled a Gamepass the only way it wouldn't destroy Microsoft's offering is if they couldn't match what Microsoft is paying third parties because their FP development is much superior and varied.
Journey
Banned
Because that's relevant to the state of the movie industry lol. Where are the goal posts again? I'm so confused, they don't stop moving. Netflix has no bearing on big blockbuster movies, they keep coming, and as a consumer I'm benefiting. So your concern is that MS will have debts like Netflix
Aww, you're so sweet for worrying about MS, bless that lovely heart of yours.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Because that's relevant to the state of the movie industry lol. Where are the goal posts again? I'm so confused, they don't stop moving. Netflix has no bearing on big blockbuster movies, they keep coming, and as a consumer I'm benefiting. So your concern is that MS will have debts like Netflix
Aww, you're so sweet for worrying about MS, bless that lovely heart of yours.
I'm actually happy for gamepass, gonna laugh when Satya gets sick of the debts.
Shmunter
Member
Phill will learn to code?I'm actually happy for gamepass, gonna laugh when Satya gets sick of the debts.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I really think they should bring back that British guy as he seems to know his shit, something Moore?