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[BANGS]

Seems console sales are not their focus

That's literally the only point I'm making. Not sure why you keep asking a bunch of other loaded questions when you already agree with me. I'm not trying to make any other point than the fact that having less exclusives means selling less consoles, that's it. Fin...

 

[Thiagosc777]

Your personal preference has nothing to do with the market

I find this funny. PS4 supposedly sold around 80 million. Why isn't each Sony exclusive selling like 40 million or more? Because the only people who care about "exclusives" are console warriors.

Most people buy consoles to play Call of Duty, Fifa, Fortnite, etc.

 

[Thiagosc777]

It's hard to know how history will judge the X1, but from the perspective of gamers looking forward, it doesn't offer much of what a 'console' needs to offer: games. I'm not talking about exclusives because this is about something much simpler, which is the total number of games.

The X1 has the largest game library of all.

 

[BANGS]

out of interest I wonder what the sales of xbox games such as Gears is between PC and Xbox, now people saying no need to have an Xbox because you can buy the games on PC but are people actualy buying them vs PC

Probably alot more on xbox. But the real takeaway is for every copy of Gears sold on PC(or any other "xbox console exclusive" for that matter), that's pretty much one less xbox console sold...

I find this funny. PS4 supposedly sold around 80 million. Why isn't each Sony exclusive selling like 40 million or more?

Because PS4 has a lot of different exclusives that appeal to different people. More than just a small handful. For example I bought PS4 to play Yakuza but I have zero interest in God of War, Last of Us, etc...

The X1 has the largest game library of all.

If you count all it's backwards compatibility I'd imagine, which is basically the one thing that has me interested in the console...

Serious question, all these games that are marketed as "enhanced for xbox one x", do they still run at 1080/60 on a regular xbox one? I might be interested in buying a cehap xbox one s or something to play panzer dragoon saga and some of those older games that have been rereleased on it, but I don't want a weak experience if I don't splurge on the X. Will I still have a great experience with the S if I don't care about 4k? Or am I just better off waiting 2 or 3 years for xbox2? I think we can safely assume the next console will still have all the same BC features, at least I hope. What do you think, brother?

 

[Thiagosc777]

Probably alot more on xbox. But the real takeaway is for every copy of Gears sold on PC(or any other "xbox console exclusive" for that matter), that's pretty much one less xbox console sold...

That makes no sense. No one who plays on PC would have bought a Xbox anyways. It's one extra sale with no drawbacks.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

The vanilla one wasn't a blast, but the X is. I'm saying that as a fan since the original Xbox. Phenomenal piece of hardware.

And I say this as a fan of the original Xbox, a big fan in fact, I think it's a highly underrated console and also as a fan of the 360 for the first few years....

Xbox jumped the shark with Kinect and I've basically never looked back since, Xbox used to be the gamer's gaming machine and they pissed all that away by wanting to ape the Wii.

I guess the X is an improvement but it just really seems like a cheaper alternative to a PC.

I'm actually really thankful that Microsoft brings everything to the PC now and saves me the trouble of having to buy a One, but Microsoft's first party output these days is fairly embarrassing, not because the game themselves are worthless, but just because of how few there are when compared to what you got in the past, it's really kinda weird to think how few first party Microsoft games are being released these days.

I think it's a shame, but I'm fine with what I guess it is now, just a cheaper alternative to PC gaming, with Microsoft releasing everything on both PC and Xbox (I can't wait to play the new Halo) but I just wish Microsoft actually released more games.

Oh well, at least Microsoft did help bring us Cuphead didn't they? That game is fucking phenomenal.

 

[The_Mike]

I got all platforms. I never turn my PS4 on, but I often play on my PC and Xbox One. Some games are suited for console others for PC, and it's a great value that you get a copy of a game to each platform.

But I guess that it's bad in a console war smh

 

[BANGS]

No one who plays on PC would have bought a Xbox anyways.

They would if it had exclusives, again you keep agreeing with my point in an attempt to argue it lmfao

 

[phil_t98]

Probably alot more on xbox. But the real takeaway is for every copy of Gears sold on PC(or any other "xbox console exclusive" for that matter), that's pretty much one less xbox console sold...

But I bought it on Xbox and got it free on my PC because I bought it on Xbox. That's the bonus of buying on Xbox I can choose to play on PC when I want and continue thegame I was playing on Xbox, I honestly don't see how that's a negative. IF somebody was choosing between xbox and PC then they prob stick with PC, if somebody was choosing between PS4 and PC I would still say geta pc. All the multiplats be better on PC but if they have to get a console then the X is the place now as the biggest selling games ever year are the Multiplats like Call of Duty or Battlefield and console wise the X is the best place to play them

 

[SegaShack]

Some people prefer console experience over PC. I know I do even though I built a high-end PC. Some people prefer PC experience over console.

MS gets money from both groups. Smart decision if you ask me.

If Sony or Nintendo released games on PC they may sell a few less consoles but they’d sell a lot more games. They are all in the software business afterall.

 

[BANGS]

But I bought it on Xbox and got it free on my PC because I bought it on Xbox. That's the bonus of buying on Xbox I can choose to play on PC when I want and continue thegame I was playing on Xbox, I honestly don't see how that's a negative.

My dear god dude, you guys keep parroting the same rhetoric. I will say it one final time... there is nothing bad about being able to play the game on both platforms via one purchase. That's actually really awesome.

The point I am making is that if the game was not available on PC, gamers would be willing to purchase an xbox to play it. But since it is available on PC, they aren't buying an xbox. I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp and why we keep talking in circles here...

 

[VectorVictor]

The X1 has the largest game library of all.

And technically the biggest amount of console exclusives to boot.

After all, I can't play KOTOR or KOTOR 2 (two of the best RPGs of all time) or Lost Odyssey (the best Final Fantasy game and best RPG from last gen, hands down) on a PS4. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[nowhat]

If Sony or Nintendo released games on PC they may sell a few less consoles but they’d sell a lot more games. They are all in the software business afterall.

They both are more in an "ecosystem business", in my opinion. In the case of Nintendo, they are very protective of their IP, so while their games may not be so technologically challenging (although, something like Odyssey does look lovely even on a 4K screen - AA would be nice though), you're probably not going to see Nintendo franchises outside Nintendo consoles. Recently there have been some mobile games, yes - but they have been so far pretty "meh". And no indication of the games being released on PC or competing consoles.

As to Sony, their first-party studios (which employ some frightfully talented programmers) work very close to the metal. This allows them to "punch above their weight", so to speak, but at the same time the engines/games are far from portable. They're built for a particular hardware target. To make a PC port would require either having a separate, more portable engine or having an abstraction layer between the engine and the hardware. The first option would entail at least twice the work (if not more - one of the advantages of having a fixed hardware target is that you don't need no code for the odd hardware configurations). The latter option would mean that the developers wouldn't be able to fully utilize the PS hardware, meaning that "if you want the best experience, get a PC" - as Sony is no longer in the PC business, and especially since Microsoft will get a cut at any rate, at least for OS sales, why would they do that?

 

[The_Mike]

My dear god dude, you guys keep parroting the same rhetoric. I will say it one final time... there is nothing bad about being able to play the game on both platforms via one purchase. That's actually really awesome.

The point I am making is that if the game was not available on PC, gamers would be willing to purchase an xbox to play it. But since it is available on PC, they aren't buying an xbox. I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp and why we keep talking in circles here...

And why should we care about one Xbox One sold less? The player on PC is still in the same player pool, so it doesn't affect the amount of players.

 

[BANGS]

And why should we care about one Xbox One sold less?

I never implied you should...

 

[phil_t98]

My dear god dude, you guys keep parroting the same rhetoric. I will say it one final time... there is nothing bad about being able to play the game on both platforms via one purchase. That's actually really awesome.

The point I am making is that if the game was not available on PC, gamers would be willing to purchase an xbox to play it. But since it is available on PC, they aren't buying an xbox. I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp and why we keep talking in circles here...

But the point is its selling quite well, just not selling Sony numbers that's all. Estimates are somewhere between 30-35 mill or maybe higher. is that a failure? people are buying them still

 

[BANGS]

is that a failure?

Not at all, nor did I imply as much...

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

The X1 has the largest game library of all.

According to what metric?

1806 on the PS4's list

1585 on the X1's list

And those are including unreleased titles.

 

[BANGS]

According to what metric?

The backwards compatibility metric... Although I wonder how that stacks up against PS4's PSnow psuedoBC games?

Not that it matters or should count in any way, PSnow is streaming trash...

 

[phil_t98]

According to what metric?

1806 on the PS4's list

1585 on the X1's list

And those are including unreleased titles.

Does that include backwards compat games?

 

[The_Mike]

I never implied you should...

Then what is the bad thing about it? It doesn't affect us as gamers. Tell me what your point with your post was, cus I don't get it

 

[phil_t98]

Not at all, nor did I imply as much...

its interesting how people judge all this. like I said I see the positivity in being able to play my xbox games on my pc free of charge, you see it as negative because its not just console exclusive. none of us are right and none of us are wrong. just different viewpoints on the same thing

 

[Thiagosc777]

According to what metric?

1806 on the PS4's list

1585 on the X1's list

And those are including unreleased titles.

Now add another 500+ 360 games and 32 OG Xbox games.

Can you play the entire Assassin's Creed series on PS4? Or Mass Effect? Or Dead Space? Or Dragon Age? The X1 has more games by a wide margin.

 

[BANGS]

Then what is the bad thing about it? It doesn't affect us as gamers. Tell me what your point with your post was, cus I don't get it

This:

I agree with pretty much all of Jim's points, but he's being a little harsh, not taking into account that the One X is a pretty decent console for those that don't want to game on PC for some reason. Also the fans have to stop damage controlling the lack of exclusives like they don't matter. You're doing more harm than good... people who have a PC have no reason to buy an xbox...

_______________________________________

its interesting how people judge all this. like I said I see the positivity in being able to play my xbox games on my pc free of charge, you see it as negative because its not just console exclusive. none of us are right and none of us are wrong. just different viewpoints on the same thing

At this point I have no idea what you're talking about. I've made my position clear countless times and you keep putting words in my mouth that I never said over and over again. I quoted my position above for someone else, please read it a few times and let it sink in...

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

The backwards compatibility metric... Although I wonder how that stacks up against PS4's PSnow psuedoBC games?

Not that it matters or should count in any way, PSnow is streaming trash...

Does that include backwards compat games?

Now add another 500+ 360 games and 32 OG Xbox games.

Can you play the entire Assassin's Creed series on PS4? Or Mass Effect? Or Dead Space? Or Dragon Age?

Woah woah! Slow down, folks. Microsoft's check will still clear even if you give me a moment... (kidding)

Really though, why is this being brought up? PS3 didn't get the luxury of "backwards compat" when everyone was backslapping each other over the 360's larger and better-running library.

But now that the PS4 has a sizably larger library, backwards compat needs to be factored in to help make the X1 look better? Okay....

 

[wildstrike]

Hateful is one thing, but he's not much of a contrarian in this case.

Even casual gamers can see that owning a PS4 and/or PC makes the Xbox One a hard sell.

Why can't you just own an Xbox?

 

[phil_t98]

This:


_______________________________________


At this point I have no idea what you're talking about. I've made my position clear countless times and you keep putting words in my mouth that I never said over and over again. I quoted my position above for someone else, please read it a few times and let it sink in...

we have had a few posts where you say no reason to own an xbox because games are on pc to, I said I see it as a positive that they are and free. you said for people with pc there is no reason to own an xbox. I didn't say you were Dissing the xbox I just said we both look at it from a different point of view if you read what I said

 

[phil_t98]

Woah woah! Slow down, folks. Microsoft's check will still clear even if you give me a moment... (kidding)

Really though, why is this being brought up? PS3 didn't get the luxury of "backwards compat" when everyone was backslapping each other over the 360's larger and better-running library.

But now that the PS4 has a sizably larger library, backwards compat needs to be factored in to help make the X1 look better? Okay....

not trying to make X1 look better I was just curious if that included back compat games.

 

[Thiagosc777]

But now that the PS4 has a sizably larger library, backwards compat needs to be factored in to help make the X1 look better? Okay....

What? No normal person cares about making something "look better", just the objective truth. I can play more games on the X1, that's a fact. And those aren't small indie titles, they are major AAA releases.

Earlier this year I replayed all the Mass Effect games (the good ones = not Andromeda) from beginning to end. Can you do the same on the PS4?

 

[wildstrike]

its interesting how people judge all this. like I said I see the positivity in being able to play my xbox games on my pc free of charge, you see it as negative because its not just console exclusive. none of us are right and none of us are wrong. just different viewpoints on the same thing

This is how a feel. No other media operates this way to my knowledge. Music, Books and Movies are universe across players. Some outlets get exclusive content but I don't have to buy an MP3 and worry about if my hardware can play it. I pay for it once and use it everywhere. I want the ability to buy a game (even mulitple times if need be) and play it on my TV for a bit, move to my PC if my family needs the TV, take it on the go with my switch if i'm out of town. I'll take this over exclusivity any day.

 

[TheShadowLord]

i don't understand why would someone complain about microsoft creating non exclusives as long as it works on both systems(in this case the pc and xb1x) without compromises(dumbed-down/severely streamed-line games)?

 

[phil_t98]

i don't understand why would someone complain about microsoft creating non exclusives as long as it works on both systems(in this case the pc and xb1x) without compromises(dumbed-down/severely streamed-line games)?

and if you buy on xbox you get it free on PC, no idea how that's bad but some people think it is

 

[wildstrike]

i don't understand why would someone complain about microsoft creating non exclusives as long as it works on both systems(in this case the pc and xb1x) without compromises(dumbed-down/severely streamed-line games)?

Because there is still this old way of thinking that console sales matter going forward when they clearly don't. Publishers are going to be able to break away from consoles in the next 10-15 years and MS knows this. Sales won't mean anything, in fact you'll see publishers offer streaming content onto apps like roku or even baked into your TV. You won't even need a console or PC to experience a game like the next Eldar Scrolls in 10-15 years. I'm not saying it won't be a downgraded visual experience but it will be a game changer in the way the industry works.

 

[AgentP]

Earlier this year I replayed all the Mass Effect games (the good ones = not Andromeda) from beginning to end. Can you do the same on the PS4?

I would argue you are playing old games because you ran out of good current gen games. I have a PS4, Switch and XBX and have almost zero need to fire up a BC game. The only two (360 games) I really wanted was RDR and Crackdown, but I still have not spent more than an hour on either due to the backlog of new games.

 

[Thiagosc777]

I would argue you are playing old games because you ran out of good current gen games.

I have about 10 other new games to play at any given time. I don't play them right away, only when I feel like it.

 

[AgentP]

I have about 10 other new games to play at any given time. I don't play them right away, only when I feel like it.

Fair enough. I buy games more than I play them

 

[BANGS]

we have had a few posts where you say no reason to own an xbox because games are on pc to, I said I see it as a positive that they are and free. you said for people with pc there is no reason to own an xbox. I didn't say you were Dissing the xbox I just said we both look at it from a different point of view if you read what I said

Ok so just a heads up, that's not having two different points of view on the same subject, that's just two completely different subjects. That's where the disconnect lies in our communication... thanks for clearing that up...

Really though, why is this being brought up? PS3 didn't get the luxury of "backwards compat" when everyone was backslapping each other over the 360's larger and better-running library.
But now that the PS4 has a sizably larger library, backwards compat needs to be factored in to help make the X1 look better? Okay....

I personally don't play the politics game because I'm not a fanboy. I'm just stating the truthful fact that there are more net games to play on xbox one than there are on PS4, just like there were more net games to play on PS3 than their were on 360, just like there are more PS4 specific games than Xbox One specific games. Moving goalposts and such is fine, but everyone has to be on the same page when discussing it...

 

[wildstrike]

I would argue you are playing old games because you ran out of good current gen games. I have a PS4, Switch and XBX and have almost zero need to fire up a BC game. The only two (360 games) I really wanted was RDR and Crackdown, but I still have not spent more than an hour on either due to the backlog of new games.

There are plenty of great TV shows out right now I need to watch but I am rewatching Babylon 5.

 

[AlexxKidd]

But the point is its selling quite well, just not selling Sony numbers that's all. Estimates are somewhere between 30-35 mill or maybe higher. is that a failure? people are buying them still

In terms of market share, yes. The Xbox 360 sold 84M units and the PlayStation 3 sold 83.8M units. So you had a 50/50 market share with Sony (not factoring in the Wii, 101.63M). When you consider the PS4 is already once again over the 80M mark and generous estimates have the Xbox One at the $35M you mentioned - sure, you're not looking for your next meal at $35M sold - but you have lost more than double your market share! And you're only losing more as Sony to this day continues to sell more PS4s than Microsoft does Xboxes, so that market share loss is widening.

Do you think Microsoft sees this as anything less than a failure? You may not, you're a gamer, what do you care if there's only one system sold, as long as it has the games you want you're happy. But from the business side of things that is a major (and widening) loss in market share. I guarantee you Microsoft is not saying "people are still buying Xboxes," they are saying, "How can we win back our market share?" and "How can our software compete in terms of sales against a user base that's more than double our own?"

For example, the Witcher 3 has sold more than 33 million units. The Xbox has been responsible for 20% (2015), 14% (2016) and 15% (2017) of those sales, while the PlayStation is responsible for 48, 42 and 35 percent.

Means nothing to you or any Xbox owner. You can still play the Witcher 3, so what do you care? You don't. That's not the point. Point is we're talking business, which is different from the gamer perspective. And business wise, Microsoft knows that they're not competing on a level playing field in terms of user base, so if they're spending AAA money on exclusives, you can bet they want them to to have a higher possible ceiling of customers than the 30/35M or so Xbox owners - especially in comparison to the massive market share of their competitor.

I submit to you THIS is the reason why they opened their games up to PC, not because they own Windows - they've owned Windows before they owned Xbox, you mean to tell me they only just now realized it? - and certainly not for any "for the gamer" talk or anything like that.

The problem that arises though is what BANGS (and let's be fair he's not the only one, Jim Sterling, etc.) have been saying. The tradeoff for opening your software up to different hardware, is that now those people don't need your hardware if they want to play your software. This is not a point to be argued, it's just a statement of fact. This is 2 + 2 = 4. It's not an attack on you and your purchase of the Xbox One. It is not saying the Xbox One is worthless. This is not saying it's against the law to be an enthusiast and own both a gaming PC and an Xbox One.

This is not even the first time this has happened. Sega was once in the videogame hardware business, now they concentrate on software. Again, not saying that's where Microsoft is going, but I'm not saying they aren't going there either. Their name is Microsoft after all. No one saying the Xbox brand is dead in the water either. A couple of years ago people were calling for Nintendo to concentrate on software, and look how they've turned it around.

But - to the question of is the Xbox One a failure? Maybe "failure" is harsh, but due to the massive loss in market share from the previous generation, it is certainly not a "success."

 

[KevinKeene]

Never get the 'but they're available on PC, too' criticism.

Firstly, not all games are on PC, too. And secondly, Xbox One is basically what Valves steam machines were supposed to be. It's for people who prefer an easily accessible gaming machine for the living room.

 

[BANGS]

In terms of market share, yes. The Xbox 360 sold 84M units and the PlayStation 3 sold 83.8M units. So you had a 50/50 market share with Sony (not factoring in the Wii, 101.63M). When you consider the PS4 is already once again over the 80M mark and generous estimates have the Xbox One at the $35M you mentioned - sure, you're not looking for your next meal at $35M sold - but you have lost more than double your market share! And you're only losing more as Sony to this day continues to sell more PS4s than Microsoft does Xboxes, so that market share loss is widening.

Do you think Microsoft sees this as anything less than a failure? You may not, you're a gamer, what do you care if there's only one system sold, as long as it has the games you want you're happy. But from the business side of things that is a major (and widening) loss in market share. I guarantee you Microsoft is not saying "people are still buying Xboxes," they are saying, "How can we win back our market share?" and "How can our software compete in terms of sales against a user base that's more than double our own?"

For example, the Witcher 3 has sold more than 33 million units. The Xbox has been responsible for 20% (2015), 14% (2016) and 15% (2017) of those sales, while the PlayStation is responsible for 48, 42 and 35 percent.

Means nothing to you or any Xbox owner. You can still play the Witcher 3, so what do you care? You don't. That's not the point. Point is we're talking business, which is different from the gamer perspective. And business wise, Microsoft knows that they're not competing on a level playing field in terms of user base, so if they're spending AAA money on exclusives, you can bet they want them to to have a higher possible ceiling of customers than the 30/35M or so Xbox owners - especially in comparison to the massive market share of their competitor.

I submit to you THIS is the reason why they opened their games up to PC, not because they own Windows - they've owned Windows before they owned Xbox, you mean to tell me they only just now realized it? - and certainly not for any "for the gamer" talk or anything like that.

The problem that arises though is what BANGS (and let's be fair he's not the only one, Jim Sterling, etc.) have been saying. The tradeoff for opening your software up to different hardware, is that now those people don't need your hardware if they want to play your software. This is not a point to be argued, it's just a statement of fact. This is 2 + 2 = 4. It's not an attack on you and your purchase of the Xbox One. It is not saying the Xbox One is worthless. This is not saying it's against the law to be an enthusiast and own both a gaming PC and an Xbox One.

This is not even the first time this has happened. Sega was once in the videogame hardware business, now they concentrate on software. Again, not saying that's where Microsoft is going, but I'm not saying they aren't going there either. Their name is Microsoft after all. No one saying the Xbox brand is dead in the water either. A couple of years ago people were calling for Nintendo to concentrate on software, and look how they've turned it around.

But - to the question of is the Xbox One a failure? Maybe "failure" is harsh, but due to the massive loss in market share from the previous generation, it is certainly not a "success."

I was gonna reply with a smartass "B-b-but muh ecksbachs!" joke post just for fun but this guy below already beat me to it, and to make it even funnier he's being dead serious...

Never get the 'but they're available on PC, too' criticism.

Firstly, not all games are on PC, too. And secondly, Xbox One is basically what Valves steam machines were supposed to be. It's for people who prefer an easily accessible gaming machine for the living room.

Xbox is nothing like a steambox dude... steambox is basically just a PC that automatically boots into big picture mode...

 

[Dabaus]

What I find interesting is that Jim Simply pointed out the obvious. His video is considered "controversial" by some but its the elephant in the room other "gamez journalists" refuse to even mention. Does nobody else find that odd? One of the posts before mine showed the sales split between the witcher 3 and despite the franchise having a long history with only xbox for console was only half of the PS4's. We don't see splits like that with Japanese games and Sony consoles. Even in the dark days of early ps3 Devil may cry 4 and FF13 Still sold signifigantly better than xbox versions.

By all measures of success be it market share, sales, exclusive quality games, mindshare or whatever metric you can track a success by, the xbox one has been a let down. MS E3 showing was much stronger than it should have been which makes me wonder if Sony in some ways has checked out and is preparing for next gen. I do think MS will lock down some notable games for next gen but I don't know if long term that will help them. This gen sony started off pretty weak software wise and here we are.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

What I find interesting is that Jim Simply pointed out the obvious. His video is considered "controversial" by some but its the elephant in the room

Lol hes fucking fat.

 

[B_Signal]

Never get the 'but they're available on PC, too' criticism.

Firstly, not all games are on PC, too. And secondly, Xbox One is basically what Valves steam machines were supposed to be. It's for people who prefer an easily accessible gaming machine for the living room.

for some people it's a criticism, it reads like for some in here their stance is "I have an xbox, this means I can also play these games on pc too", which isn't wrong at all. For those people that it's a criticism for, the argument would be that to means there's no reason to buy an xbox if you have a decent pc (and a PS4 to fill in the argument), so it's potential lost sales for MS (beyond that 1 game, they aren't getting a cut of anything not from their store or not published by them the way they would on the console)

Personally, I can see how it might benefit MS in the long term to get people playing their games wherever. It does also mean though that this will be the first generation in a very long time (probably since before the Dreamcast) where I've not owned all the consoles. That could still change, but it won't based on what they've revealed

again, not a problem if you're an xbox fan, or agnostic, but it is more worrying for Microsoft both as of now and what it means for them in the future

 

[Dabaus]

What? Im talking about the xbox one being a failure but no one if games media acknowledges it, is the elephant in the room, not Jims weight. But you knew that.

 

[Thiagosc777]

Im talking about the xbox one being a failure

If the best console ever built plus the biggest gaming library equals failure, then I wish all consoles were failures like this.

 

[Elenchus]

In terms of market share, yes. The Xbox 360 sold 84M units and the PlayStation 3 sold 83.8M units. So you had a 50/50 market share with Sony (not factoring in the Wii, 101.63M). When you consider the PS4 is already once again over the 80M mark and generous estimates have the Xbox One at the $35M you mentioned - sure, you're not looking for your next meal at $35M sold - but you have lost more than double your market share! And you're only losing more as Sony to this day continues to sell more PS4s than Microsoft does Xboxes, so that market share loss is widening.

Do you think Microsoft sees this as anything less than a failure? You may not, you're a gamer, what do you care if there's only one system sold, as long as it has the games you want you're happy. But from the business side of things that is a major (and widening) loss in market share. I guarantee you Microsoft is not saying "people are still buying Xboxes," they are saying, "How can we win back our market share?" and "How can our software compete in terms of sales against a user base that's more than double our own?"

For example, the Witcher 3 has sold more than 33 million units. The Xbox has been responsible for 20% (2015), 14% (2016) and 15% (2017) of those sales, while the PlayStation is responsible for 48, 42 and 35 percent.

Means nothing to you or any Xbox owner. You can still play the Witcher 3, so what do you care? You don't. That's not the point. Point is we're talking business, which is different from the gamer perspective. And business wise, Microsoft knows that they're not competing on a level playing field in terms of user base, so if they're spending AAA money on exclusives, you can bet they want them to to have a higher possible ceiling of customers than the 30/35M or so Xbox owners - especially in comparison to the massive market share of their competitor.

I submit to you THIS is the reason why they opened their games up to PC, not because they own Windows - they've owned Windows before they owned Xbox, you mean to tell me they only just now realized it? - and certainly not for any "for the gamer" talk or anything like that.

The problem that arises though is what BANGS (and let's be fair he's not the only one, Jim Sterling, etc.) have been saying. The tradeoff for opening your software up to different hardware, is that now those people don't need your hardware if they want to play your software. This is not a point to be argued, it's just a statement of fact. This is 2 + 2 = 4. It's not an attack on you and your purchase of the Xbox One. It is not saying the Xbox One is worthless. This is not saying it's against the law to be an enthusiast and own both a gaming PC and an Xbox One.

This is not even the first time this has happened. Sega was once in the videogame hardware business, now they concentrate on software. Again, not saying that's where Microsoft is going, but I'm not saying they aren't going there either. Their name is Microsoft after all. No one saying the Xbox brand is dead in the water either. A couple of years ago people were calling for Nintendo to concentrate on software, and look how they've turned it around.

But - to the question of is the Xbox One a failure? Maybe "failure" is harsh, but due to the massive loss in market share from the previous generation, it is certainly not a "success."

By that logic, would you deem the PS3 a failure because it did not achieve the PS2’s 150mil console sales and will you all also reach the same conclusion as to the PS4 if it doesn’t?

 

[BANGS]

By that logic, would you deem the PS3 a failure because it did not achieve the PS2’s 150mil console sales and will you all also reach the same conclusion as to the PS4 if it doesn’t?

PS4 has been a tremendous success over the PS3. But yes, PS3 was a tremendous failure under the PS2...

Again, this is in terms of business, not fanboyism...

 

[Dabaus]

If the best console ever built plus the biggest gaming library equals failure, then I wish all consoles were failures like this.

It might be a success to you but not to Microsoft.

 

[AlexxKidd]

By that logic, would you deem the PS3 a failure because it did not achieve the PS2’s 150mil console sales and will you all also reach the same conclusion as to the PS4 if it doesn’t?

PS4 has been a tremendous success over the PS3. But yes, PS3 was a tremendous failure under the PS2...

Again, this is in terms of business, not fanboyism...

Also bear in mind, by this point the PS3 began to close the gap on the Xbox 360 (they ended up even). In the case of the Xbox One, the gap between it and the PS4 is widening.