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[BreakyBoy]

I wonder what some of you are looking for in this show. I don't mean that in any sort of demeaning way, I really just wonder. This complaint that "I hope they don't all get wiped again" is analogous to saying "I hope they don't just go back to school like nothing happened again" for Buffy, or "I hope they don't lose all that money they made somehow and have to go back to doing other dangerous jobs" for Firefly. Of course, they're getting fucking wiped. That's the whole point.

Also, more and more, this show seems to me to be less about finding out what the Dollhouse is and why it operates, and more about why these people are here. The first 5 episodes were mediocre (and I know that's being generous), but the last three have really pushed forward what I feel is the true central theme of the show. It's all a big group of character studies as all of Whedon's stuff is. Yeah, finding out the big picture elements of the dollhouse conspiracy is the big overarching plot, but I expect that to be parceled out in doses. The stuff in between is all character-driven.

While the excellent Man on the Street did more to push forward the larger picture of:

- what is the dollhouse's endgame,
- who are these people who are scheming to bring it down,
- and etc etc conspiracy theories etc etc,

I found myself wondering more about why Paul Ballard cares so damn much about the Dollhouse. Righteous indignation combined with an obsessive lust for Echo is fine and dandy, but way too simple. Someone here made a comparison to Mulder from the X-Files. That seems like a pretty apt comparison. There has to be some other motivation there for Paul.

The next episode gave us the backstory of how Echo got involved in this mess to begin with, and gave us several more inklings that the whole process of becoming a doll is somewhat voluntary. Manipulative beyond a doubt, but still somewhat voluntary.

This last episode again furthered the stories of the people within the dollhouse more than the dollhouse conspiracy itself. It's made abundantly clear that at least Echo and November are there voluntarily. The implication being that Echo wanted to forget the guilt of getting her lover killed, and that November wanted to forget the pain of losing her daughter. At the same time, the implication is that Sierra was purely manipulated into becoming a doll. Victor, we have no idea, which was really the biggest disappointment of the episode for me. Everyone gets a nice look into their motivations but him.

Yeah, the show's been pretty damned mediocre, but it really does feel like it was all buildup, setting the stage for these later episodes. And yeah, I'll agree that Eliza Dushku is definitely the weak link of the show. The supporting cast around her is totally out-classing her in almost every scene. Even so, it is a shame that it will likely get canned, as this is mirroring every other Whedon show for me.

I thought Buffy's first season was mediocre, and then it got better from Season 2 on. Firefly, I found quaint, but nothing spectacular at first, but after a few episodes I was riveted, and ended up feeling it's one of the best shows I've ever seen. Dollhouse seems to be following the same formula of drop the audience in, set the stage, and then start peeling back the layers of the characters for all to see. Can't say I love the show yet, but I'm certainly enjoying it more and more lately.

 

[bachikarn]

From the synopsis I thought I would have really liked it, but something about it just didn't make it that interesting.

 

[OmniGamer]

All he does is stand around posing and flexing

Works for me

 

[Chemo]

Weird, it was my favorite ep of the series by far. Even without much Helo.

 

[Bebpo]

Not much to say about the ep. Just didn't enjoy it very much and it felt fairly pointless even though we got more background info on some characters.

I hope Alpha shows up soon because there aren't many eps left and there's probably no S2.

 

[Ripclawe]

This was brought up elsewhere I think zap2it but the non dollhouse victor is another cast member along with the FBI agent more interesting than the lead star.

Especially in terms of acting

 

[Blader]

I wonder what some of you are looking for in this show.

Something more compelling.

It's not even as much about the formula of the show as it is the quality of the acting and the writing. I don't find myself drawn to watching Dollhouse the way I did with something like Angel, because there's nothing really compelling. On paper, there may be a lot of potential intrigue about the Dollhouse and who these people are, but in execution, it just comes off as really cheesy.

 

[Escape Goat]

I wonder what some of you are looking for in this show. I don't mean that in any sort of demeaning way, I really just wonder. This complaint that "I hope they don't all get wiped again" is analogous to saying "I hope they don't just go back to school like nothing happened again" for Buffy, or "I hope they don't lose all that money they made somehow and have to go back to doing other dangerous jobs" for Firefly. Of course, they're getting fucking wiped. That's the whole point..

Buffy still retained her core identity each episode. Buffy was still Buffy at the end...just with more experience. Echo is as we found her in Episode 1. There is no additional memories, no personal relationships being formed. Hell, Echo inside the Dollhouse has NO PERSONALITY. They are children and walk around in a daze.

We get small glimpses of the real Echo. Why she is there, what Caroline was really like. But so far they're taken away as fast as they were shown to us. For the first time we saw Echo, Sierra and Victor interacting. For the first time we see relationships being formed between the 3 (Victor and Sierra). Its this drama that makes a story compelling. A conflict isnt enough. We need motivations, interpersonal conflicts to drive it forward. As dolls, they are incapable of this.

And if Dr Saunders is correct and these dolls have purged these deep seated desires to find resolution, well, where else is there for our characters to go?

 

[Krowley]

I don't feel that the dolls are really the characters in this show, at least not yet. Right now the main characters are the people that work at the dollhouse and the detective.

the dolls are slowly becoming more individual, but right now, they're just things. The characters are the handlers.

edit// this show was sold as an Eliza Vehicle, with her as the main character, but I haven't actually seen it that way since about the 3rd episode. there is a person in there somewhere, and eventually we will meet her, but for now, she's like a robot with occasional moments of individuality. The rest of the characters are the real stars.

 

[Chamber]

This was brought up elsewhere I think zap2it but the non dollhouse victor is another cast member along with the FBI agent more interesting than the lead star.

Especially in terms of acting

That isn't really saying much though. Echo is easily one of the least interesting characters on the show.

 

[kame-sennin]

Works for me

Yea, I understand that he's got a good physique, but he looks awkward as hell when he's standing around. And whenever he points at someone, he does that annoying tough guy flex/point so everyone knows how big his forearms are. It just comes off as really fuckin amateur to me.

I wonder what some of you are looking for in this show. I don't mean that in any sort of demeaning way, I really just wonder. This complaint that "I hope they don't all get wiped again" is analogous to saying "I hope they don't just go back to school like nothing happened again" for Buffy, or "I hope they don't lose all that money they made somehow and have to go back to doing other dangerous jobs" for Firefly. Of course, they're getting fucking wiped. That's the whole point.

I think people are expecting the four main dolls to break out of the Dollhouse and form an A-team like action squad in attempt to shut down the Dollhouse program for good. This episode was teased as the episode where that might happen, so it was a bit disappointing for some when the status quo was maintained.

 

[dead souls]

That's the entire problem with this show. There's no hook for me, no character that I actually find interesting enough to want to keep watching, and the big ol' Dollhouse conspiracy is ridiculous when there's a problem with the plan/programming/whatever in every single episode.

At this point it's leftover goodwill for Whedon that keeps me going; compared to his last effort, this is shameful. I'd much, much rather have a second season of Firefly than this. Mal was a masterclass in making a morally ambiguous character likable and sympathetic, whereas Topher and Adelle are just despicable and annoying.

I couldn't say it any better than this, so I'll just say I completely agree with every word you've written here.

 

[Jokey665]

Topher...just despicable and annoying.

Topher is awesome

 

[Escape Goat]

Topher is awesome

I find it ridiculous they can rewrite peoples brains. I find it even more ridiculous that a 26 year old is doing it single handedly.

 

[Holtz]

Fox was just the opposite of NBC -- fourth in total viewers and third among adults 18-49 -- with its line-up of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles (Viewers: #4, 3.35 million; A18-49: #3, 1.3/ 5), which concludes the season (or series) next Friday and Dollhouse (Viewers: #4, 3.49 million; A18-49: #3, 1.4/ 5). Unfortunately, there is no way to put a positive spin on the Dollhouse numbers this week.

So:
Episode 1 - 4.8 million, 2.0 in 18-49 demo.
Episode 2 - 4.3 million, 1.7 in 18-49 demo. 5% share.
Episode 3 - 4.2 million, 1.6 in 18-49 demo. 5% share.
Episode 4 - 3.5 million, 1.5 in 18-49 demo, 5% share.
Episode 5 - 4.3 million, 1.6 in 18-49 demo, 5% share.
Episode 6 - 4.1 million, 1.5 in 18-49 demo, 5% share.
Episode 7 - 3.9 million, 1.3 in 18-49 demo, 4% share. (In the finals it was 1.4 in 18-49 demo).
Episode 8 - 3.5 million, 1.4 in 18-49 demo, 5% share.
Lowest rating yet. :/

 

[ivysaur12]

I find it ridiculous they can rewrite peoples brains. I find it even more ridiculous that a 26 year old is doing it single handedly.

He obviously didn't create the technology, and they must have a system in place to create them if there are over 20 other Dollhouses.

 

[Escape Goat]

He obviously didn't create the technology, and they must have a system in place to create them if there are over 20 other Dollhouses.

Well he seems to know more about how they work than anyone else in the office. I just dont buy it coming from the actor.

 

[Blader]

He obviously didn't create the technology, and they must have a system in place to create them if there are over 20 other Dollhouses.

Even so, how does a 26-year-old get that kind of job? :lol

 

[KibblesBits]

Even so, how does a 26-year-old get that kind of job? :lol

Could each Dollhouse have a genius tech person to keep the system running?

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Yeah, I'm getting a bit tired of the show.
It's such a cool premise, and I generally like most of the characters - especially the normal folk like Adelle and Boyd... but it's just hard to get into when everything goes back to status quo at the end of the episode.

I was fuckin' amped on last night's I was like "oh shit, this show just craaazy" and then of course like 3 minutes later everything is back to normal. :lol

 

[OmniGamer]

Even so, how does a 26-year-old get that kind of job? :lol

Maybe it's a "young people are more easily intimidated by their superiors+easier to control+more likely to give themselves to the company's needs+more open to trying new&unorthodox techniques to improve the tech as opposed to a gruff know-it-all dyed-in-the-wool old fart type" kind of thing ;-)

Topher grated on me early on, as noted elsewhere in the thread, but i've kind of numbed myself to his speech patterns now, so he's a bit less annoying to me.

I agree that Sierra has displayed the best range/versatility between her various personas, including her own traumatic experiences. However i'm not on the Eliza hate train, she seems functional enough, and perhaps the "same-y-ness" throughout her various personas that y'all are complaining about is related to the fact that she's unique in a way that causes her to retain pieces after each wipe. I mean, we saw in the last episode that Caroline has a strong, assertive type of personality. Maybe that core isn't so easily repressed. For all we know, she's supposed to play the part(s) with a certain level of underlying consistency.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

The boss is annoying, mostly because of her voice. I'm glad they touched on it in last weeks episode. Something she said in the interview with the guy who drugged everyone makes me think that she wants the dolls to remember parts of their "installed" identities. no proof, just a feeling.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

I like this to be cancelled, but only if James Cameron does True Lies 2.

 

[anaron]

Season one is now avaliable to pre-order on Blu-Ray and DVD.

 

[Costanza]

Episode was decent.

 

[Costanza]

Fox Leaning Toward 'Dollhouse' Renewal

 

[BluWacky]

The boss is annoying, mostly because of her voice. I'm glad they touched on it in last weeks episode.

It's just a British accent! She's speaking RP, sure, but quite a lot of people in England at least default to that as their speaking voice

Don't hate us

Anyway, I enjoyed Needs. I loved Adele's line to Dominic - "Caroline never was very realistic." Yup, Caroline has always been an idealistic idiot, it's CANON, it's okay to hate her guts...

(I like everything about this show except the "main" characters. I suppose Echo in tabula rasa form is okay but Eliza just isn't interesting enough as anything else; Ballard just has a boring storyline compared to the Dollhouse intrigue.)

 

[anaron]

Fox Leaning Toward 'Dollhouse' Renewal

While the news is slightly hopeful, I'm not going to let it get my hopes up.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

It's just a British accent! She's speaking RP, sure, but quite a lot of people in England at least default to that as their speaking voice

Don't hate us

Anyway, I enjoyed Needs. I loved Adele's line to Dominic - "Caroline never was very realistic." Yup, Caroline has always been an idealistic idiot, it's CANON, it's okay to hate her guts...

(I like everything about this show except the "main" characters. I suppose Echo in tabula rasa form is okay but Eliza just isn't interesting enough as anything else; Ballard just has a boring storyline compared to the Dollhouse intrigue.)

not the accent, the voice.

 

[ivysaur12]

Fox Leaning Toward 'Dollhouse' Renewal

:O

When do networks normally announce their fall lineups?

 

[Vinci]

Even so, how does a 26-year-old get that kind of job? :lol

Am I the only one who thinks Topher is a doll? Figured that was pretty much the obvious assumption considering he's supposed to be this lone super-genius that can do all this shit, and yet there are 20 other dollhouses around the world with people able to do the same thing.

Still waiting to see Alpha. Show better get exciting as hell at that point or this show is in deep shit. I'm hoping it gets renewed for another season simply out of trust that Joss has some sort of plan that's going to pay off over time. As of now, this show is reminding me far too much of how Heroes began - which was a massive slow-burn as well - but this one is taking longer to find its feet.

Of course maybe it will find them and keep them, whereas Heroes just went to hell after a little while.

 

[Krowley]

Fox Leaning Toward 'Dollhouse' Renewal

I'm also not going to get too excited, but if they do, I think it's probably a testament to the shows popularity in unconventional viewing outlets like Hulu and DVR numbers. It seems like Dollhouse has held it's own in those kinds of areas, probably due to the built in Whedon fanbase and it probably makes the show look a little more enticing.

 

[Cornballer]

:O

When do networks normally announce their fall lineups?

Network Upfronts are in May for the big networks, so that's the latest date that they'll notify everyone about renewing/canceling a show. Fox is scheduled for May 18th. I would guess they'd say something before then, but who knows...

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Am I the only one who thinks Topher is a doll? Figured that was pretty much the obvious assumption considering he's supposed to be this lone super-genius that can do all this shit, and yet there are 20 other dollhouses around the world with people able to do the same thing.

Yes, but do they all have drawers full of inappropriate starches?

 

[sneaky77]

So far I have been pretty dissapointed. If Whedon was not involved I probably would have stopped watching already but I guess I am hoping it will find its footing and direction soon.

 

[GoutPatrol]

Yes, but do they all have drawers full of inappropriate starches?

Dear god I bet they do.

 

[Won]

Am I the only one who thinks Topher is a doll? Figured that was pretty much the obvious assumption considering he's supposed to be this lone super-genius that can do all this shit, and yet there are 20 other dollhouses around the world with people able to do the same thing.

Everyone on this show is probably a doll. Whether we see all the reveals just depends on how long the show runs.

 

[BuckRobotron]

Caught up on this show after seeing Ep 8, then catching earlier eps on Hulu. Unfortunately, the first few episodes have timed out on Hulu.

I actually saw Ep 7 when it aired too, but it may have been the single worst episode for newcomers I have ever seen for any show. I knew some of the characters going in, but others in my entourage were understandably lost.

This lack of approachability to the show can't be helping the ratings.

Anyway, I'm generally up to speed and now know what the whole point to the "Helo" character is. I also agree with some other sentiments I have seen from scanning the thread, especially regarding Victor and Sierra as being high points.

 

[Apoc29]

I have a feeling that Ballard is going to do something he regrets, then ends up volunteering to become a doll to forget everything. I'm not familiar with the actor's resume, but he doesn't appear to be the type who can pull of multiple roles.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Fox Leaning Toward 'Dollhouse' Renewal

It looks like if it does get a second season the fact that it doesn't cost a lot to make will be a big part of it. With Firefly, Fox had almost no choice but to cancel it given the big budget it had. That show had to get huge ratings from the start or it wouldn't survive.

 

[neight]

Am I the only one who thinks Topher is a doll? Figured that was pretty much the obvious assumption considering he's supposed to be this lone super-genius that can do all this shit, and yet there are 20 other dollhouses around the world with people able to do the same thing.

That would be a good reveal. In order to ensure the tech of each Dollhouse is the best they can be they imprint them to be the best at what they do. I really hope it doesn't go further than that to other staff of the Dollhouse.

 

[Magnus]

It looks like if it does get a second season the fact that it doesn't cost a lot to make will be a big part of it. With Firefly, Fox had almost no choice but to cancel it given the big budget it had. That show had to get huge ratings from the start or it wouldn't survive.

It needs a move to another night. Pairing it up with something like 24 would be fantastic.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

isn't that kind of meta, to have dolls know about dolls but not know they are? Kind of moving into Blade Runner territory.

 

[anaron]

Dollverse contacted FOX about the status of the show and about the final episodes and how the season will be wrapped up.

Here's what they had to say:

06 April 2009
Second series of Dollhouse? An update.
There's a lot of questions about this, so I thought I'd do a quick Q&A.



Question: Is FOX planning to cancel Dollhouse?


Answer: 100% no. As we revealed two weeks ago, they plan to air all episodes of the first season. That's 13 episodes in total, so there are 5 episodes left which will air over April and through the middle of May.



Question: Is FOX planning to renew Dollhouse for a second series in early 2010?


Answer: We asked the network today if they plan to renew the show. They just emailed to say there's nothing to report Kevin Reilly (Fox executive) says it depends on the financial viability of the show.


Question: 2010?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Do the cast know if the show is returning?

Answer: No. They're waiting to hear like we are.

Question: Would Joss return in a hands on role for a second series?

Answer: Good question, that.

Question: Does the season/series finale wrap up the series?

Answer: It's a bit like the Buffy season one finale - according to Joss, it wraps up several of the key elements, but asks a bunch of questions at the same time.

Question: Airlock Alpha say Fox want to make another series. What's that about?

Answer: The story has some issues. They cite the high "BlipNetwork Stability Index Rating" as a reason for why the series may get renewed. BlipNetwork is a company owned by the article author, Michael Hinman. They're quoting figures they've made up with their own system. Fox uses Nielsen and it's own in house analysis to determine the financial viability of a show - they don't rely on systems made up by people on the interweb. Dollhouse just finished at a season low rating for Friday's episode (episode 8, Needs).

Question: Can you report anything about a second series, then?


Yes, but it's boring business babble. The show has not been a ratings monster, however it has proved successful for 20th Century Fox in terms of "new media". Or, in captain dummy talk, it's done well on Hulu, iTunes and -- for FOX -- on DVRs (think Tivo). Combined with DVDs and possible international sales, it is possible 20th Century Fox could discount the fee for a second series for FOX Broadcasting Corporation. We have heard this is being explored, which is where Airlock Alpha's current article has originated from. To make it financially viable, the series would need to shift from a Friday to boost the 'live' viewers, with 20th Century Fox taking more of the licensing fee from FOX to offset the cost. Discussions continue about this at both companies. Other options include cancelling the series. Dollverse has been told a decision will be made in May.

Question: Can you give us some good news?

Answer: Yes. The Dollhouse set is still up, at stage 19 on the Fox backlot. That's because it cost a lot of money, and they haven't made a decision yet. Also, the may 8th episode of Dollhouse is a brilliant hour of television. Really.(Written and directed by Tim Minear)

Question: Did you just interview yourself?

Answer: Yes. I'm a lonely man.

Question: Yes, I noticed.

Answer: I'm not sure what's going on. Mummy...



Update: I mistyped the stage number as I'm a less Neo, more idiot. So I fixed that. Also removed the Prison Break thing with regards to Airlock Alpha as I was sadly and entirely mistaken.

 

[TheOMan]

Am I the only one who thinks Topher is a doll? Figured that was pretty much the obvious assumption considering he's supposed to be this lone super-genius that can do all this shit, and yet there are 20 other dollhouses around the world with people able to do the same thing.

This would be very interesting, neat theory. However, if he were a doll, shouldn't he have been affected by that "drug" a couple of episodes ago in the same way the other dolls were?

 

[anaron]

Crap. Watching the promo for Friday's episode again I think I realised who the mole is. ><

Anyways, if anyone does have a favourite character, who is it and why?

 

[Odious Tea]

This would be very interesting, neat theory. However, if he were a doll, shouldn't he have been affected by that "drug" a couple of episodes ago in the same way the other dolls were?

Yep. Had that theory, came to that solution.

And as for the the favorite character it would be Topher. I love that smug, sarcastic quality he has. I guess I just have a thing for comic relief?

 

[anaron]

More news on the DVD/Blu-Ray release( July 28th) via TvshowsonDVD

Yesterday we let you know that Amazon.com is already taking advance pre-orders for Dollhouse - Season 1, which is coming later this year to both DVD and high-def Blu-ray Disc. Amazon didn't list any details, though...not even the release date. But our industry friends have graced us today with a nice amount of information about these releases!

Expect the DVD and Blu-ray versions to arrive day-and-date on July 28th (well-timed for fanfare at the annual San Diego Comic Con). The pricing we gave you yesterday, of $49.98 SRP for the standard DVD (4 discs) and $69.99 SRP for the high-def Blu-ray (3 discs), has been confirmed. Running time is 694 minutes for 13 episodes: "Ghost," "The Target," "Stage Fright," "Gray Hour," "True Believer," "Man on the Street," "Echoes," "Needs," "A Spy in the House," "Haunted," "Briar Rose," "Omega" and "Epitaph One". We've confirmed that both versions will also have the Original Unaired Pilot Episode, "Echo".

Other bonus material, apparently available on both DVD and Blu-ray, include Audio Commentary with the Cast and Crew, Deleted Scenes, and Featurettes titled "Making Dollhouse," "Coming Back Home," "Finding Echo," "Designing the Perfect Dollhouse," "Mind Games," "An Urban Myth?" and "A Private Engagement". Video on the DVD will be anamorphic widescreen, with English 5.1 Dolby Surround audio. Vidoe on the Blu-ray will be 1080p high definition widescreen, with English 5.1 DTS HD Master Audio. French and Spanish subtitles are also available. Package art isn't available yet, but stay tuned!

Also there seems to be an airing issue regarding the last two episodes. FOX is listing episode 12 as the season finale.

Once again, credit to Whedonesque for all the news.

ETA: It looks like Felicia Day will appear in the 10th episode and Alan Tudyk in the 11th.

 

[Kauza]

Interesting thing mentioned by Felicia Day today about the status of Dollhouse:

"Man, day getting worse and worse. Found out my Dollhouse ep, #13 isn't gonna air. Only on DVD. Such a great part too. Thx Fox. "

Sounding like the show is 100% canceled? I thought they said that all episodes this season would indeed air? And does that mean that Felicia won't actually appear in that 10th episode? The confusion is unending.

 

[GDJustin]

show cancelled confirmed via Felicia Day twitter.