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[DryvBy]

I keep seeing this lie that people want politics shoehorned into gaming and other media. With Tim Sweeny coming out of no where to say politics should stay out of games (marketing), the activists on certain websites and social media, as well as the collective, unadulterated minds of certain websites, got busy writing up the latest outrage.

"Every game is political!"

"Games should have politics in them!"

"I need a game to reflect my current feelings on what talking heads told me to bandwagon this week in politics!"

Ok, so the last one is what I believe they actually mean when they say they want politics. Which is a great transition to my main view: these people don't want politics in games either. They want pushed agendas of the extreme left wing variety.

One of my favorite examples is from Polygon from last year when Hasbro released a parody of Monopoly Socialism. That's politics in entertainment and they had such a sad emoji face about it. But there's not really a lot of right wing, or even better, anti-left wing politics in games. In fact, there's rarely a time when games are being political as much as they want them to be. You might end up with a few games that are really political like Life Is Strange 2 or Gone Home, but it's far and few.

While the more agendas they put into a game that mirrors any left wing mantra is going to be hailed as a classic, these same people would have a fit if a AAA company was putting out a true to life conservative or libertarian game. Or even something where the core was just mocking their beliefs for their own political lawlz.

I couldn't find a single piece from the regulars praising any right wing politics in gaming. Could someone find some articles and post them below, please?

Let's pretend Activision puts out a new Call of Duty that has a soldier questioning what he's fighting for while back home in America, they're taking guns away from private, law abiding citizens. Do you think they'd want those politics in games? Would the media and internet reward such behavior for being "brave"?

What if a company made a game where you were a border patrol agent? We know how they felt about Spider-Man and him simply helping the police, so could you imagine them campaigning the politics of protecting borders?

What about a Cities: Skyline expansion that has you enable Democratic Socialism that slowly turns into Communism over time, causes the game to unlock an ungodly difficulty level, and ends up in mass prisons and cemetery plots. But they did all this because their politics felt socialism and communism is evil? Would there be praise for politics in games?

What if a popular game from Rockstar mocked the mental stability of a transgendered person? Would that be great because politics?

Of course, no one would want that. They want their politics in gaming. So don't let anyone claiming they want this stuff spoon-fed in every medium tell you they care about politics in games. They certain do not.

Edit: Doom is gonna be hot stuff.

 

[LOLCats]

Politics and social agendas are not the same.

 

[njean777]

The issue I see is that when a challenge to their agenda/political affiliation (gaming journalists mainly being liberal) happens most of them take to the pitchforks and want to cancel the game out (cancel culture). Be an adult and counter argue the point being made without being outright childish and derogatory. Not everybody believes what you believe even though you are in a small world where your opinions aren't being challenged daily, or argued against, as twitter blocking doesn't work in real life.

 

[Abriael_GN]

I keep seeing this lie that people want politics shoehorned into gaming and other media. With Tim Sweeny coming out of no where to say politics should stay out of games (marketing), the activists on certain websites and social media, as well as the collective, unadulterated minds of certain websites, got busy writing up the latest outrage.

"Every game is political!"

"Games should have politics in them!"

"I need a game to reflect my current feelings on what talking heads told me to bandwagon this week in politics!"

Ok, so the last one is what I believe they actually mean when they say they want politics. Which is a great transition to my main view: these people don't want politics in games either. They want pushed agendas of the extreme left wing variety.

One of my favorite examples is from Polygon from last year when Hasbro released a parody of Monopoly Socialism. That's politics in entertainment and they had such a sad emoji face about it. But there's not really a lot of right wing, or even better, anti-left wing politics in games. In fact, there's rarely a time when games are being political as much as they want them to be. You might end up with a few games that are really political like Life Is Strange 2 or Gone Home, but it's far and few.

While the more agendas they put into a game that mirrors any left wing mantra is going to be hailed as a classic, these same people would have a fit if a AAA company was putting out a true to life conservative or libertarian game. Or even something where the core was just mocking their beliefs for their own political lawlz.

I couldn't find a single piece from the regulars praising any right wing politics in gaming. Could someone find some articles and post them below, please?

Let's pretend Activision puts out a new Call of Duty that has a soldier questioning what he's fighting for while back home in America, they're taking guns away from private, law abiding citizens. Do you think they'd want those politics in games? Would the media and internet reward such behavior for being "brave"?

What if a company made a game where you were a border patrol agent? We know how they felt about Spider-Man and him simply helping the police, so could you imagine them campaigning the politics of protecting borders?

What about a Cities: Skyline expansion that has you enable Democratic Socialism that slowly turns into Communism over time, causes the game to unlock an ungodly difficulty level, and ends up in mass prisons and cemetery plots. But they did all this because their politics felt socialism and communism is evil? Would there be praise for politics in games?

What if a popular game from Rockstar mocked the mental stability of a transgendered person? Would that be great because politics?

Of course, no one would want that. They want their politics in gaming. So don't let anyone claiming they want this stuff spoon-fed in every medium tell you they care about politics in games. They certain do not.

Edit: Doom is gonna be hot stuff.

Personally, I'm not as polarized as most in this.

If a developer wants to inject their political ideas in their games, that's perfectly fine, and I support it. Games are a form of freedom of speech, and developers should be able to put some of themselves into them, and express their ideas. That's true for most creative endeavors.

On the other hand, I know for a fact that many developers do NOT want their games to make political statements, either because they do not want to be divisive, or simply because they don't care for politics (like me), or they just want to tell a good fictional story, or many other reasons.

That is also entirely good and something I personally support. I find the attempt by certain press to deride those developers absolutely disgusting and shameful.

The one thing I do not condone at all is journalists forcing their own politics on game developers that aren't willing. That's a massive no no for me.

 

[Barakov]

A lot of the time when politics are shoehorned into games into usually far left wing stuff and it's about as subtle as a brick to the face. Don't get we wrong far right wing stuff would be just as bad. I think a lot of it has to do with framing it within the story that's being told in the game. It seems like a lot of the time it's something that comes out of nowhere and just comes off as cringey and pandering. It's the type of thing that can take you out of the experience. Although, it's a still a slight step above when devs just slap in internet memes in games.

Edit: Doom is gonna be hot stuff.

Games set in hell tend to be like that.

 

[bumleforce]

Ya i don't think it belongs in games either. That doom thing is funny

 

[GreyHorace]

Personally I'm sick of some of these developers flaunting their woke mindset while smugly declaring themselves better than their audience. Tim Schafer is a noted example. I'll thank the man for all the great adventure games he made for LucasArts, but he's an idiot if he thinks his political opinions matter more than the product he makes.

Guy's a scam artist who can't even finish his crowd funded crap on a budget.

I'd like to see Rockstar mock the left wing nuts in GTA 6, as spent they've years mocking right wing politics. There is so much to be mined from the insanity of liberals today. Rockstar would have to be pussies to kowtow to the SJWs and not jump on an opportunity like that.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I keep seeing this lie that people want politics shoehorned into gaming and other media. With Tim Sweeny coming out of no where to say politics should stay out of games (marketing), the activists on certain websites and social media, as well as the collective, unadulterated minds of certain websites, got busy writing up the latest outrage.

"Every game is political!"

"Games should have politics in them!"

"I need a game to reflect my current feelings on what talking heads told me to bandwagon this week in politics!"

Ok, so the last one is what I believe they actually mean when they say they want politics. Which is a great transition to my main view: these people don't want politics in games either. They want pushed agendas of the extreme left wing variety.

One of my favorite examples is from Polygon from last year when Hasbro released a parody of Monopoly Socialism. That's politics in entertainment and they had such a sad emoji face about it. But there's not really a lot of right wing, or even better, anti-left wing politics in games. In fact, there's rarely a time when games are being political as much as they want them to be. You might end up with a few games that are really political like Life Is Strange 2 or Gone Home, but it's far and few.

While the more agendas they put into a game that mirrors any left wing mantra is going to be hailed as a classic, these same people would have a fit if a AAA company was putting out a true to life conservative or libertarian game. Or even something where the core was just mocking their beliefs for their own political lawlz.

I couldn't find a single piece from the regulars praising any right wing politics in gaming. Could someone find some articles and post them below, please?

Let's pretend Activision puts out a new Call of Duty that has a soldier questioning what he's fighting for while back home in America, they're taking guns away from private, law abiding citizens. Do you think they'd want those politics in games? Would the media and internet reward such behavior for being "brave"?

What if a company made a game where you were a border patrol agent? We know how they felt about Spider-Man and him simply helping the police, so could you imagine them campaigning the politics of protecting borders?

What about a Cities: Skyline expansion that has you enable Democratic Socialism that slowly turns into Communism over time, causes the game to unlock an ungodly difficulty level, and ends up in mass prisons and cemetery plots. But they did all this because their politics felt socialism and communism is evil? Would there be praise for politics in games?

What if a popular game from Rockstar mocked the mental stability of a transgendered person? Would that be great because politics?

Of course, no one would want that. They want their politics in gaming. So don't let anyone claiming they want this stuff spoon-fed in every medium tell you they care about politics in games. They certain do not.

Edit: Doom is gonna be hot stuff.

Dumb question, why would Ree be mad at this? Am I missing a play on words or something?

 

[GreyHorace]

Dumb question, why would Ree be mad at this? Am I missing a play on words or something?

Demons = Oppressed minorities

 

[Bkdk]

if games are going towards a more open ended approach or have a huge support for mods, this won’t be an issue. Unfortunately most games are going the linear route where player choice isn’t the priority, gamers are forced to follow the developers’ script and create emotions out of it.

 

[009EspadaSageJay]

These people dont want "real politics in games" personally if games want to do politics with class and display both sides equally instead of just one slam dunking on the other fine. But most of these people only like politics if its dunking on the stuff like capitalism, free speech/liberties, boarder security and laws ect. Dont you dare make a game showing the absolute destruction of what a socialism leads to.

 

[Elektro Demon]

No sane person wants politics in videogames.

 

[Virex]

These people aren't journalists. They are activists. They have no clue what journalism is.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

These people aren't journalists. They are activists. They have no clue what journalism is.

Bingo.

Just because someone (anyone) can upload articles and YT videos, it doesn't mean they are a journalist.

Journalism (as a professional career) requires some academics in how you do it, what you do, and believe it or not ethics so you don't report junky content.

The number of game writers who actually have credentials to be a bonafide journalist is probably 1%.... maybe even zero.

That's like you or me uploading game articles and suddenly we are journalists. Or doing videos on a cheesy baking powder and vinegar volcano and calling ourselves chemists.

 

[June]

Saying politics shouldn't be in games is much dumber than saying it should.

Why would you want to block out an entire element that is very much relevant to people's lives like that from appearing in an artistic medium? It's okay to not want to play political games yourself, but to not want in be an element that creators can use if they choose?

The way OP is framed it seems like on one side there is people who want shitty political representation in their art and another just going in the extreme opposite by wanting no politics at all. They are both shit positions and as reactionary as eachother.

 

[Abriael_GN]

Saying politics shouldn't be in games is much dumber than saying it should.

Both extreme positions are dumb.

 

[Naibel]

Politics in gaming are great when handled properly : Deus Ex, Bioshock, MGS, Disco Elysium, many strategy games and RPGs, the Tropico series, etc...

When political themes are tackled with maturity (or wit when it comes to satire), respect of multiple viewpoints, acknowledging the complexity of many issues, it elevates the medium and makes it a worthwhile contributor to the democratic debate.

When it's just pure propaganda made to push a specific agenda, insulting not only the political positions of some players but also the intelligence of everyone, then politics become toxic.

The problem is, it is far too easy to do the latter when you're a talentless writer (and there are many in this industry...), or worse, if you have a horse in the race, mainly because you don't need to put yourself in other people's shoes and therefore don't challenge your worldview. In this day and age, filled with echochambers and filter bubbles, it's certainly the easy way-out.

This approach poisons the well so much that nowadays "politics in gaming" is pretty much a swear-word for many gamers and game creators.

We regressed a lot about this subject compared to ten years ago, and that's just sad.

 

[June]

Both extreme positions are dumb.

Saying politics should be in games is far less extreme than saying no politics should be in games.

 

[Abriael_GN]

Saying politics should be in games is far less extreme than saying no politics should be in games.

You're (intentionally or not) misrepresenting the op. The problem they have isn't saying that politics can be in gaming. It's saying that ALL games are political (it's right there at the top, not sure how you missed it) and trying to shoehorn politics into games regardless of whether they're intended by their creators or not, at times going as far as trying to bully creators into admitting that their games are political.

That's no less extreme and no less dumb than the other side.

 

[autoduelist]

The problem isn't politics in games. It's ideologues creating ideological games reviewed by a press consisting of those sharing said ideology and demonizing anyone who dare not like an 'approved' game, or defends a heretical game. Especially when said idealogy by default demonizes the same people who built the gaming community in the first place, and a good chunk of the ideologues don't care about gaming half as much as they care about preaching.

 

[June]

You're (intentionally or not) misrepresenting the op.

I not even respresenting the OP. I don't know what their position is. I'm just responding to the positions they bought up in their post.

The problem they have isn't saying that politics can be in gaming. It's saying that ALL games are political (it's right there at the top, not sure how you missed it)

There's also the quote of the criticism "Games should have politics in them!" - as if that's a bad statement to make. It's right below the line you're referencing. Not sure how you missed that.

Compounded with the title "Journalists and friends don't want politics in games" and bringing up how Tim Sweney said "politics should stay out of games", yeah these seem like blanket statements that no politics should be in games at all.

Again, I never said OP is making this argument, but it is an argument that is being brought up. And I'm saying it's a dumb position to have - whoever holds it.

 

[Abriael_GN]

I not even respresenting the OP. I don't know what their position is. I'm just responding to the positions they bought up in their post.



There's also the quote of the criticism "Games should have politics in them!" - as if that's a bad statement to make. It's right below the line you're referencing. Not sure how you missed that.

Compounded with the title "Journalists and friends don't want politics in games" and bringing up how Tim Sweney said "politics should stay out of games", yeah these seem like blanket statements that no politics should be in games at all.

Again, I never said OP is making this argument, but it is an argument that is being brought up. And I'm saying it's a dumb position to have - whoever holds it.

"Games should have politics in them!" is just as dumb a statement as "Games should never have politics in them." It's not very different from saying that all games are political, which they are not.

Games should have politics in them exclusively if their developers want it. Without the bolded part, that's just trying to push politics on creators that may very well not be interested in it. And there's plenty of them.

 

[MasterDerico]

Politics isn't SJW, LGBTAXROLE+ and leftist extreme agenda.

 

[June]

"Games should have politics in them!" is just as dumb a statement as "Games should never have politics in them."

It's not, because one statement is saying all games should never include politics and the other is saying at least some games should. One is more extreme than the other.

If the statement was "Games should always have politics in them!", then I would agree that it is just as dumb a statement, because that would be the opposite equivalent.

Games should have politics in them exclusively if their developers want it. Without the bolded part, that's just trying to push politics on creators that may very well not be interested in it. And there's plenty of them.

I agree. Devs should have control of what they make. Same with politics as with genre, mechanics, story, etc. Let the creators handle this shit not the market researchers.

Although it's totally possible for devs to be just as cynical as producers and investors, but yeah I won't go down that road. Just make sincere and non-pandering games you fucks.

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I think the conversation is malformed -- perhaps on purpose to ensure fewer people come to logical conclusions -- because "politics in games" can mean almost anything in our post-modern world. Let's replace the sentiment with "no religion in games", but what does this mean?

- Game don't remove content, nor are they forced to include certain content, due to religions potentially being offended (seems good to me)
- Games don't "appropriate" any motifs or themes or stories from any religion (uhhh, seems too extreme)
- Games don't even include fictional religions in any form (way too extreme)

It is the same way with "we don't want politics in games", and because the desire isn't expressed clearly, the ideologues can step in and hurr hurr everything is political are you saying you don't want Princess Peach to be a princess hurr

 

[Spukc]

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Politics and social agendas are not the same.

They intersect when law is written according to the social agenda.

 

[Mista]

Developers can and should do whatever the hell they want with their game. I'll know whats the game about before it releases

So, if its alright for me then sure I'll get it. But if its something like what LiS 2 turned into then simply I won't get it. Fuck them

 

[Allandor]

Developers can and should do whatever the hell they want with their game. I'll know whats the game about before it releases

So, if its alright for me then sure I'll get it. But if its something like what LiS 2 turned into then simply I won't get it. Fuck them

???
What did LiS 2 do that you are so upset about it?

A game is more or less like a movie. Some go the political way, others don't. And that's totally fine.
I don't think that developers should do whatever they want, there are just some nogos that everyone should respect.

 

[Mista]

???
What did LiS 2 do that you are so upset about it?

A game is more or less like a movie. Some go the political way, others don't. And that's totally fine.
I don't think that developers should do whatever they want, there are just some nogos that everyone should respect.

Have a look at LiS and then go have a look at LiS 2. Its very obvious how forced the SJW game was

 

[GamerEDM]

 

[Rim]

Yes no politics.
Bring back the old games without any politics, like MGS, Wolfenstein, Red Alert...

Btw just in case it wans't obvious.

/s

 

[Handy Fake]

Art is built on context and social zeitgeist. Books, movies, games... They're all going to be at least partly influenced by what's going around them. I mean you could look back to things such as Mario Bros. etc but as the medium and the power of it have progressed it's merely being utilised to create more complete worlds and the more complicated political and social systems that comes with them.
There's even an argument for gender politics etc in there, as much as many don't like it and see it as an agenda. Fact is it's part of life today and it's just another veneer of world-building that is added as power increases to create a conceptually whole universe in many games.

I've never particularly seen an issue with this, and where many see agendas I just see the complexities of life being brought to fruition in a medium that is maturing to the extent where it can finally keep up with it.

Just my opinion, obviously.

 

[Humdinger]

I think you're correct in your analysis. When people talk about "politics in games," most of them are referring to content that reflects current events, the politics of the day. And usually that comes laced with a point of view, a spin, an agenda. And we all know which way the media tilts.

More broadly speaking, politics are often a part of games and can't/shouldn't be excised. But by "politics" here, I don't mean current events, I mean power relations between organizations and people. For example, many RPGs have factions that are at war with each other. That's "politics," in the sense I mean.

 

[Saruhashi]

From the mainstream media perspective it seems like the entire purpose of this discussion is to create an atmosphere where including certain political messages in your game will be rewarded.

Any one who objects is portrayed as a moron because "everything is political".

I'm of the opinion that developers should be able to do whatever they want and it's up to the individual consumer to "vote with their wallet".

However the constant deriding of people who do not really want games that are overly preachy or pushy, when it comes to politics, is total bullshit.

If I say I didn't like Game X because of the ham-fisted politics and I would prefer the developer to steer away from that in the future then I shouldn't get some stupid comeback like "ALL games are political".

Yes, any given game can have a political interpretation. Or maybe there were political issues in the real world that impacted the development of a game (if not the gameplay etc).

If the next Mario game had some overt message about the dangers of vaping then I'd be annoyed about that given that I have no strong opinions or knowledge about the subject and I just want a Mario game with good, challenging, platforming. I may well say "I didn't appreciate the politics in that last Mario game" but to come back at me with "Mario has always been political" is just dishonest.

The whole purpose of this seems to be that some people see videogames as a fantastic vehicle for activism. So, in service of this, they go out of their way to build up the idea that games can "change the world" and if you are just some guy who likes to play a game for fun then you're some kind of idiotic simpleton who doesn't even know that Tetris was developed in Soviet Russia and Mario contains toxic messages that normalize patriarchal power structures.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

I keep seeing this lie that people want politics shoehorned into gaming and other media.

Not from sane people, you don't

Games are a form of freedom of speech, and developers should be able to put some of themselves into them, and express their ideas. That's true for most creative endeavors.

The one thing I do not condone at all is journalists forcing their own politics on game developers that aren't willing. That's a massive no no for me.

I agree with all the other stuff ya said; but what?
I just find that highly contradicting, though I think I'm just interpreting your meaning wrong; mind clarifying for me?

I'm over on the IT side of things, not the journalistic, so I agree with your notion that games do hold that sort of content, just...even if the journalistic approach to what is being said is asinine, it's still freedom of speech

I think you just mean they can do it, but it's stupid, yeah?

Yes no politics.
Bring back the old games without any politics, like MGS, Wolfenstein, Red Alert...

Btw just in case it wans't obvious.

/s

I mean...like....
MGS legit has a dude who gets hypnotized to think his arm is trying to take over his mind and body...
Wolfenstein is based on killing Nazis; yeah...it's political, but um, I think most people are going to relate to the ACTUAL Nazi party (None of this dumb activist stuff) as being seen bad...I wouldn't really call that such a political stance as well...
Systematically killing people is bad and a lot of people would agree?

I don't think those games are really trying to make a political or societal point; other than MGS, they're more based on world wide accepted viewpoints on events (Just based on your current examples, I'm not excluding other titles you may bring up outright)

And I the only reason I discount MGS is because it's literally bat shit insane and if you think MiyazakiHatesKojima isn't just hiding Anime in his games you're silly

 

[GreenAlien]

Most people don't generally mind "politics" in games. They just don't want far left fringe politics that are not tolerant of anything else to be in, influence and limit games..

 

[killatopak]

Politics is fine. I just don’t want it shoved down my throat which is the problem everyone is complaining about.

 

[BlackOlivesMatter]

I just want more tits in games

 

[DryvBy]

Yes no politics.
Bring back the old games without any politics, like MGS, Wolfenstein, Red Alert...

Btw just in case it wans't obvious.

/s

Someone read my late night ramblings!

I never said to not have any politics in games. I said it's a lie that people want politics in games because they really only want their politics in games. We wouldn't have a cancel culture for personal political opinions if they truly wanted politics in gaming.

 

[lock2k]

Fuck politics.

I grew up in a very political family and one of my cousins is one of the main political journalists in my country. Our gatherings always had hot table discussions way before that was a thing in the internet and it was always insufferable to sit through this. Everyone has an opinion and a position, even if that position is a lack of position, but as the years went by I started to despise politics and woke-ism and virtue signaling and I find myself more and more wanting to support media that is not politicized. Like, say, a cartoon podcast that focuses on the cartoons itself, or a music show that plays music and doesn't care which candidate the musician voted for, or older games that featured mascots and that was all...

So, fuck politics and fuck religion (I don't mean to say fuck you to religious folks here, it's just that both are not for me).

I just want more tits in games

Politits.

 

[lock2k]

I think you're correct in your analysis. When people talk about "politics in games," most of them are referring to content that reflects current events, the politics of the day. And usually that comes laced with a point of view, a spin, an agenda. And we all know which way the media tilts.

More broadly speaking, politics are often a part of games and can't/shouldn't be excised. But by "politics" here, I don't mean current events, I mean power relations between organizations and people. For example, many RPGs have factions that are at war with each other. That's "politics," in the sense I mean.

This is one of the most intelligent replies.

It's normal to have political stories in media (movies, games, comics, etc).

However, there's a world of difference in having factions and countries and games like Civilization to having Marvel and DC Comics parodying Trump and using caricatures of him. It's not only dumb, it also dates the comics forever. Such a stupid tactic.

 

[Plague Doctor]

How about games should include whatever the fuck the developers want them to include and then the audience gets to react?

Politics. No politics. Left. Right. Bull Moose Party. Pro-Alien Insect Overlords. Whatever shade in between.

And if the game and/or the message is dogshit, the audience calls them out and it doesn't sell shit.

Call me archaic as fuck, but I miss the good ole days before 2010 where a content creator makes the thing they want to make and the market responds without the media setting expectations on tone and trying to police it for other companies.

 

[Abriael_GN]

I agree with all the other stuff ya said; but what?
I just find that highly contradicting, though I think I'm just interpreting your meaning wrong; mind clarifying for me?

I'm over on the IT side of things, not the journalistic, so I agree with your notion that games do hold that sort of content, just...even if the journalistic approach to what is being said is asinine, it's still freedom of speech

I think you just mean they can do it, but it's stupid, yeah?

Sure they can do it. Obviously I don't have the power to go to their offices and bonk them on the head if they do it.

Just like they're free to do it, I'm free to consider them clowns for doing it.