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Judge Rakoff Sets Royalty Rate For Nintendo 3DS Technology at 1.82% per unit

pwack

Member
Sep 8, 2009
972
0
0
Did they have access to his model and ripper it out open and replicate the idea based on that?
If they did, it's copying, if they instead had tomita exp laminino his idea and showing his prototype and then they built from scratches without having access to the prototype i call that talking inspiration, and that doesn't i cringe any copy..
If tomita was sorride eh could have asked to ninty to sign a nda deal with some additional classe (can't use this concept for 5 years in individuali project even if no deal is met after the presentation)..
He didn't most likely..

I repeat..
A copy is a copy that wants to be equal to the original..
An imitation is the original plus other thing to obfuscate the original source
An inspiration is when you just glimpse and starting from that glimpse you produce your own

And in my case this is the third case, while of course without access to material evidente, this is just pure speculation
That's cute and all. But it's not what the law is.
 

turtle553

Member
May 20, 2005
1,870
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42
NJ
Im just jealous of this guy.

Brb gonna go buy some extremely hot coffee from Mcdonalds.
Be sure you suffer third degree burns first. Also McDonalds had 700 complaints about the coffee being too hot, but kept it above safe levels to prevent giving out a lot of refills.

Graphic Photos Here

The reporting on that case made it seem like a joke, but there was a good reason she won.
 

Aquamarine

Member
May 24, 2012
18,812
119
780
So is this retroactive in any way? Or does it only count towards future 3DS sales?

This will definitely push Nintendo to promote 2DS to maximize its profit margins.
 

pwack

Member
Sep 8, 2009
972
0
0
So is this retroactive in any way? Or does it only count towards future 3DS sales?

This will definitely push Nintendo to promote 2DS to maximize its profit margins.
They got a verdict for retroactive amounts owed. Number is in OP. This is moving forward, or from whatever date verdict amounts ends at.
 

Mr Swine

Banned
Nov 30, 2011
9,772
0
0
Sweden
Holy shit what

This is basically the exact opposite

I like Nintendo too but jesus guys

And comparing this to an absolutely legitimate case like the McDonald's coffee case makes no sense
I just asked, I really don't know what falls in line to be a patent troll
 

DocGaf

Neo Member
Jun 20, 2013
48
0
0
Im just jealous of this guy.

Brb gonna go buy some extremely hot coffee from Mcdonalds.
In the coffee case, the manager of the restaurant cranked the heat up on the machine to keep people from ordering refills. People would have to sit there and allow their coffee to cool before they could drink it. He was betting that it would take so long to cool off people wouldn't be around long enough to order refills. Saving his restaurant money.
The woman that got burned was going through the drive thru, the coffee was so hot that it melted the lid and burned her bad enough to require medical treatment.

People like to joke about that case as being frivolous, however there is a reason she won just like I'm sure there is a reason this guy won his case.

I'd say it's likely Nintendo seen the idea and decided to use it. They just also decided to try and bypass paying the fees to the guy who brought the idea to them by doing it themselves.
It didn't work
 

NolbertoS

Member
Dec 28, 2006
4,826
0
0
Wow, well, If the guy presented it to Nintendo and they ripped him off, then he deserves a piece of the pie. Sounds to me he wasn't a patent troll.
 

Cheerilee

Member
Apr 14, 2005
10,013
1
0
I just asked, I really don't know what falls in line to be a patent troll
Patent troll = Somebody who randomly patents an idea before anyone else does (if you throw enough crap at the walls, some of it is likely to stick) and then goes quiet about it. It's not useful to them in any way, but some industry might decide to march this way in the future, if they're lucky. Some tech company like Nintendo which is overly concerned about speed and can't wait for their own patents to clear (because the system is overloaded with people throwing crap at the walls) comes running along and... *bam* lawsuit. The patent troll doesn't care about advancing tech, they just make their money from lawsuits.


In this case, an engineer was specifically trying to trailblaze in 3D. He made a 3D camera, and tried to sell it to Nintendo. Nintendo said "Nah, we're not interested in 3D", so he went back to his work trailblazing, and trying to sell people on the idea of 3D cameras. Then Nintendo decided that they absolutely needed to have 3D. They slapped together a 3D camera overnight and ran this little guy over. Nintendo's camera is technically different from his, but he says they stole the idea from him. Nintendo's defense is that they don't remember meeting him, and forgot this little guy existed.
 

thepotatoman

Member
Jul 17, 2006
11,518
0
0
Denver, CO
So is this guy what we call a patent troll?
I think most patent trolls have hundreds to thousands of patents to their name and employ their own laywers.

Looking into it, this guy appears to have his name on 19 patents, and they basically all relate to cameras and displays, while his (probably one man) company of Tomita Technologies International Ltd. has exactly 2 patents. He is also being represented by a third party of Kaye Scholer LLP which doesn't show up on the patent as far as I can tell.

Basically it all seems legit to me.
 

tronic307

Member
Sep 8, 2012
630
0
550
I just hope Nintendo doesn't get sued out of 3D for good. Did a lawsuit force Nintendo to stop making analog triggers, especially with clicks at the bottom of travel, or was that reversed?
 

beril

Member
Aug 25, 2010
3,993
0
0
here's the patent in question: https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US7417664.pdf

I don't really read lawspeak, but it seems pretty far fetched to me. Doesn't seem like the 3DS is using any specific tech in the patent, other than being a device with cameras and a 3D screen.

From what I can understand it's mostly about adjusting depth information based on viewing position, which the 3DS cameras don't do
 

NeoGash

Member
Sep 30, 2013
1,202
0
0
Australia
Maybe that's why they didn't have 3D for 99% of the new Pokémon games? Maybe they were trying to draw away from the 3D and ease us into a 2D world lol. Good on the guy anyway, I like it when the big companies get what's coming to them. Hee hurr Ninty.
 

Tripon

Member
May 24, 2013
23,025
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770
here's the patent in question: https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US7417664.pdf

I don't really read lawspeak, but it seems pretty far fetched to me. Doesn't seem like the 3DS is using any specific tech in the patent, other than being a device with cameras and a 3D screen.

From what I can understand it's mostly about adjusting depth information based on viewing position, which the 3DS cameras don't do
Yeah, at best, this is an infringement based on an idea which is the one thing that you can't sue for under a patent. And yet it happened.
 

aaaaaa

Member
Aug 1, 2007
1,277
0
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Seems like the '664 patent is about a device with both a 3-D camera and a 3-D display. I wouldn't be surprised if a 3DS system without the 3-D camera comes along.
 

RandSec

Neo Member
Aug 21, 2013
47
0
0
Austin, Texas, USA
Yeah, at best, this is an infringement based on an idea which is the one thing that you can't sue for under a patent. And yet it happened.
No, the source does not matter. Even if you thought it up completely independently, infringement is infringement. Of course one can sue for patent infringement.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Feb 19, 2008
44,007
6
0
Im just jealous of this guy.

Brb gonna go buy some extremely hot coffee from Mcdonalds.
and then sue them for it being extremely hot
I never asked for it to be hot. I just wanted coffee. Damn them for not explicitly telling me that it was hot!

Which car should I buy with my new money?
Do me a favor. Go watch this video from the New York Times and then come back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pCkL9UlmCOE
 

Moosichu

Member
Jul 24, 2012
3,138
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0

B.O.O.M

Member
Jan 12, 2012
14,307
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Damn he is getting paid

Shady stuff from Nintendo if true. This guy doesn't seem like a patent troll so it's good it worked out for him
 

Tripon

Member
May 24, 2013
23,025
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770
No, the source does not matter. Even if you thought it up completely independently, infringement is infringement. Of course one can sue for patent infringement.
You can patent a process, or product. You cannot patent an idea, or else Alta Vista would be the only search engine in existence.
 

vinnygambini

Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
Aug 7, 2013
8,549
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Could Nintendo appeal the verdict once again?
 

Rootbeer

Banned
Jan 9, 2012
16,204
12
785
Great job Nintendo... look at all these millions you are going to pay someone for a feature nobody uses or likes on their 3DS anyway!

Makes you wonder if the decision to make a 2DS was related to this in any way.
 

Raysoul

Member
Jun 25, 2013
1,718
4
490
Makes me wonder if they are going to ditch the 3DS sooner and show off the next handheld successor.
 

Raysoul

Member
Jun 25, 2013
1,718
4
490
Over a few dollars per unit? This is not the Xbox Nvidia deal.
A loss is a loss. 1.82% is not really that low, considering the amount of 3DS being sold worldwide. If investors knew that a certain percentage of the possible profit is being transferred to someone unrelated to the company, it could backfire and hurt Nintendo in the long run.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Apr 17, 2007
29,342
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In the coffee case, the manager of the restaurant cranked the heat up on the machine to keep people from ordering refills. People would have to sit there and allow their coffee to cool before they could drink it. He was betting that it would take so long to cool off people wouldn't be around long enough to order refills. Saving his restaurant money.
It wasn't just the owner of that franchise. Ms. Liebeck was served her 3rd-degree burn causing coffee according to McDonald's official company handbook.

McDonald's had received hundreds of complaints about how their coffee was burning people and they only offered very small amounts of money to anybody who complained. Certainly not enough to pay the medical bills.
 

metalslimer

Member
Jun 9, 2012
26,528
0
0
it adds up man

by the time the 3ds sells say 100 million(which isn't very realistic but more of an example) they'll have lost a significant amount of money
Well taking a more realistic example and saying the 3DS sells around 40 million more units, it is a significant amount (depending on the price cuts they could lose anywhere from 60-100 million dollars), but they aren't going to rush out a new system when the 3DS is the profitable part of their corporation right now.

Edit: Also people really shouldn't defend Nintendo on this.
 

entremet

Member
Dec 6, 2008
85,703
374
1,335
The sad thing is, companies still sell scalding hot coffees. Just labrl them as such which doesn't change the original problem. For exanple the taps at the eurotunnel are ridicoulous, the water that comes out burns children but because they are labelled as 'hot'... no problem.
This is why I only do ice coffee when I buy. Starbucks and others make coffee way too hot.
 

Cheerilee

Member
Apr 14, 2005
10,013
1
0
Nintendo is big on USP (or Unique Selling Proposition) these days. Dual screens helped them fend off PSP in the handheld arena, and waggle catapulted them from last place to first in the console arena. That's why 3DS had to have 3D and Wii U needed another controller innovation.

Nintendo wouldn't give up their USP on the 3DS just because it might potentially cost another $2 per-unit to keep it in there if they lose a court case. They dropped it because market research told them that nobody cares about 3D on the 3DS. Tons of people just turn it off. It's a wasted feature. And if Nintendo's cutting needless waste, they'll cut something that costs a penny per-unit as quickly as they'll cut something that costs five bucks.

If 3D was important to the success of the 3DS, then it would still be there. $2 per unit isn't nearly a make-or-break amount. Iwata dropped the price by $100 just to boost sales.
 

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Mar 31, 2009
21,807
2
755
I thought sharp developed this tech, not nintendo? Why aren't they the ones to pay out?

--

Oh, it's the camera not the screen. Never even used that
 

Loonz

Member
Jan 6, 2006
703
0
1,235
Salamanca, Spain
Agreed.
Even when the law has been served, Nintendo fans will find a way to defend the company.
You say this as if Sony apologists didn't do the exact same thing if / when a similar situation happened but with Sony being sued instead of Nintendo. LoL.

Regarding the topic, this lawsuit only shows Nintendo's stupidity for including a feature on the 3DS they've barely used (nor nobody really uses) and that increases the console's price. And now, they have to pay the price. Well deserved IMO.

So why bother then, including things they will barely use. They should be more focused when they design devices, instead of throwing features around just because.
 

witchedwiz

Member
Mar 22, 2007
5,432
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Milan
If we are talking about an issued patent, it really does not matter how the infringement came to be. Even if you came up with the product completely independently, you still infringe.
And that's Why i say that patent regulation atm is shit