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Judgement Day: Too Human Demo Up Now!
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McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
GhaleonEB said:
Two opinions I trusted in the negative.
Bummer
after reading this thread while I worked today I was expecting shit, then I played the demo on my lunch hour and really enjoyed it.
It has its flaws, frame rate, graphics, animations etc. the worst for me was the camera at first really took some getting used, about half way through I got the tip the up/down on the d-pad lets you tweak it a little and that helped. Think I just had it ingrained into me that the right stick moves the camera.
Also it took me ages to figure out what was going on with the hud and menus, this wasn't helped by me somehow setting it so it burned all my loot on getting it but once I got it back I was LOVING the item drops.
The combat seemed fun too but you just have to remember your playing a point and click dungeon crawler for consoles, had a tone of fun building up combos dashing from enemy to enemy, juggling them up in the air and using my newly acquired rifle. (some nice duel wielding multiple target sections too).
I did have no clue what to do with the big enemys when the A button came up I stood on there shoulders and could do nothing then fell off :lol
Also I didn't really get the point of the cyber world seemed like a fart on everytime you needed to open a door you had to go over and virtually open it then come back.
I think it was a mistake missing out co-op from this demo, Crackdown really had the best demo out there and more people should be using it as an example.
In all it took me a while to get to grips with but its a fun game thats very rough around the edges.
Will play the demo again and will buy the game on release.
It has its flaws, frame rate, graphics, animations etc. the worst for me was the camera at first really took some getting used, about half way through I got the tip the up/down on the d-pad lets you tweak it a little and that helped. Think I just had it ingrained into me that the right stick moves the camera.
Also it took me ages to figure out what was going on with the hud and menus, this wasn't helped by me somehow setting it so it burned all my loot on getting it but once I got it back I was LOVING the item drops.
The combat seemed fun too but you just have to remember your playing a point and click dungeon crawler for consoles, had a tone of fun building up combos dashing from enemy to enemy, juggling them up in the air and using my newly acquired rifle. (some nice duel wielding multiple target sections too).
I did have no clue what to do with the big enemys when the A button came up I stood on there shoulders and could do nothing then fell off :lol
Also I didn't really get the point of the cyber world seemed like a fart on everytime you needed to open a door you had to go over and virtually open it then come back.
I think it was a mistake missing out co-op from this demo, Crackdown really had the best demo out there and more people should be using it as an example.
In all it took me a while to get to grips with but its a fun game thats very rough around the edges.
Will play the demo again and will buy the game on release.
Stormwatch
Member
GhaleonEB said:
I thought the same exact thing during this scene.
I like the idea of cybernetic Norse mythology, but Too Human tries too hard to pull the 2 ideas together.
Monocle
Member
Okay, here we go. I spent a touch over an hour playing through the demo. Here are my impressions.
Controls
Abysmal. Attacking with the right stick was awkward the first time I tried it, and remained so throughout the demo. At first I kept wanting to use RS to adjust the camera. I got over that after a couple battles, but the controls never felt any better. I think Too Human would benefit from a more traditional control scheme with one or two face buttons assigned to melee attacks.
Gameplay
Repetitive, as you'd expect from a dungeon crawler. The melee combos are unimpressive and arbitrary. Taps and turns of RS send Baldur careening into opponents with no rhyme or reason. Aerial attacks seem pointless and look ridiculous. Projectile weapons are functional if unremarkable, although I kind of like the lasers. After half an hour of failed attempts to strategically apply Baldur's abilities, I gave up and just ran through the rest of the level swirling RS at anything that moved. The game could really use a proper combat tutorial, though the system is so bad that I have doubts about how much difference it would make.
As a fan of dungeon crawlers, I enjoyed the looting well enough. I don't consider this a point in favor of Too Human so much as an inherent feature of its genre, as this aspect of the game isn't distinguished by any meaningful departures from the expected formula. The one thing worth noting here is how irritating it is to navigate to the inventory menu every time you want to equip newly-acquired gear. Players should be able to jump to their inventory with the press of a button after collecting new items.
It's easy to get turned around, especially after a hectic battle, because the level design has almost no logical linear progression. A better game would funnel players through the environment instead of leaving them to orient themselves in a series of vast featureless caverns and corridors. As far as I could tell, light-up doors and the positions of your AI allies are the only clues you're given about where to go next.
Interface
The HUD is a garish and distracting mess that needs to be streamlined and simplified. Thank goodness it can be toggled off with the d-pad.
The somewhat cluttered inventory screen might have been passable if it weren't so sluggish. Scrolling through its lists and subscreens is a real drag because every command takes a moment to register. Is it really so difficult to create a clean, responsive interface?
Graphics and Animation
As bad as the preview footage indicates, maybe worse. The area I'd previously admired in this lovely piece of concept art is a mess of jaggies and muddled textures in-game. The other environments are a thrilling combination of bland and lifeless.
Character movement is stiff in both cutscenes and gameplay, melee attacks have no sense of impact, and the weapon trails look silly. I have nothing positive to say here.
Sound
The score tries and fails to be epic with soaring instrumentation that pipes in with no buildup during moments that don't seem all that special.
The voice acting is bland all across the board. Sometimes laughably wooden. Other than the exceptions I'll mention below, the one saving grace here is something I heard an NPC shout at random. The line? "Put up or shut up!" :lol
Presentation
The cutscenes are very generic. Coupled with the mediocre voice acting (excepting the Norns, whose VA I enjoyed quite a lot), there is little incentive to pay attention to the story at all. A series of jarring flashbacks occur throughout the demo, some in the form of cutscenes, some as playable areas. With so much skipping around to different times and places, there's no sense of cohesion. I was confused until I decided to stop caring.
Overall
Too Human feels like a rushed and unpolished launch title. I probably don't need to point out how ironic and unfortunate this is given its long development time. Taking its gameplay a la carte, the game is average at best. As a complete package, with its dreadful controls, graphics, plot, animation, interface and presentation, I think it's a tough sell at bargain bin prices. Personally I wouldn't pick it up for more than $10.
The big question is, is GAF's hate for Too Human warranted? Pre-For or Against fiasco: probably. This once-hyped title is a disappointment on all fronts. It should be exempt from none of the fallout. Post-For or Against fiasco: absolutely. And then some. Denis Dyack deserves ridicule for the outrageous lengths he's gone to to promote and defend such a lackluster game. The situation he has created is an epic conflation of personal and professional failure.
Controls
Abysmal. Attacking with the right stick was awkward the first time I tried it, and remained so throughout the demo. At first I kept wanting to use RS to adjust the camera. I got over that after a couple battles, but the controls never felt any better. I think Too Human would benefit from a more traditional control scheme with one or two face buttons assigned to melee attacks.
Gameplay
Repetitive, as you'd expect from a dungeon crawler. The melee combos are unimpressive and arbitrary. Taps and turns of RS send Baldur careening into opponents with no rhyme or reason. Aerial attacks seem pointless and look ridiculous. Projectile weapons are functional if unremarkable, although I kind of like the lasers. After half an hour of failed attempts to strategically apply Baldur's abilities, I gave up and just ran through the rest of the level swirling RS at anything that moved. The game could really use a proper combat tutorial, though the system is so bad that I have doubts about how much difference it would make.
As a fan of dungeon crawlers, I enjoyed the looting well enough. I don't consider this a point in favor of Too Human so much as an inherent feature of its genre, as this aspect of the game isn't distinguished by any meaningful departures from the expected formula. The one thing worth noting here is how irritating it is to navigate to the inventory menu every time you want to equip newly-acquired gear. Players should be able to jump to their inventory with the press of a button after collecting new items.
It's easy to get turned around, especially after a hectic battle, because the level design has almost no logical linear progression. A better game would funnel players through the environment instead of leaving them to orient themselves in a series of vast featureless caverns and corridors. As far as I could tell, light-up doors and the positions of your AI allies are the only clues you're given about where to go next.
Interface
The HUD is a garish and distracting mess that needs to be streamlined and simplified. Thank goodness it can be toggled off with the d-pad.
The somewhat cluttered inventory screen might have been passable if it weren't so sluggish. Scrolling through its lists and subscreens is a real drag because every command takes a moment to register. Is it really so difficult to create a clean, responsive interface?
Graphics and Animation
As bad as the preview footage indicates, maybe worse. The area I'd previously admired in this lovely piece of concept art is a mess of jaggies and muddled textures in-game. The other environments are a thrilling combination of bland and lifeless.
Character movement is stiff in both cutscenes and gameplay, melee attacks have no sense of impact, and the weapon trails look silly. I have nothing positive to say here.
Sound
The score tries and fails to be epic with soaring instrumentation that pipes in with no buildup during moments that don't seem all that special.
The voice acting is bland all across the board. Sometimes laughably wooden. Other than the exceptions I'll mention below, the one saving grace here is something I heard an NPC shout at random. The line? "Put up or shut up!" :lol
Presentation
The cutscenes are very generic. Coupled with the mediocre voice acting (excepting the Norns, whose VA I enjoyed quite a lot), there is little incentive to pay attention to the story at all. A series of jarring flashbacks occur throughout the demo, some in the form of cutscenes, some as playable areas. With so much skipping around to different times and places, there's no sense of cohesion. I was confused until I decided to stop caring.
Overall
Too Human feels like a rushed and unpolished launch title. I probably don't need to point out how ironic and unfortunate this is given its long development time. Taking its gameplay a la carte, the game is average at best. As a complete package, with its dreadful controls, graphics, plot, animation, interface and presentation, I think it's a tough sell at bargain bin prices. Personally I wouldn't pick it up for more than $10.
The big question is, is GAF's hate for Too Human warranted? Pre-For or Against fiasco: probably. This once-hyped title is a disappointment on all fronts. It should be exempt from none of the fallout. Post-For or Against fiasco: absolutely. And then some. Denis Dyack deserves ridicule for the outrageous lengths he's gone to to promote and defend such a lackluster game. The situation he has created is an epic conflation of personal and professional failure.
That's pretty low, man. Bone injuries are no laughing matter.pulga said:
memecomplex
Member
Jack Random said:I get a different flavor here, I think TH is supposed to be more like Diablo and to a lesser extent, PSO (though PSO was lacking any real depth to its combat); where the combat is simple on the surface, but offers more if you feel like rocking the efficiency (combos, air juggles, finishers, etc).
Ninja Gaiden is a absolute clinic on white knuckle combat, the gold fucking standard
Things is Diablo lets you click stuff to death and PSO lets you button mash with a modicum of timing, both which I think are far more satisfying than Too Human's implementation of right analog stick combat, but I won't begrudge anyone who finds it enjoyable.
Is this the kind of banter that got you demoted from mod status?sp0rsk said:
The game doesn't suck. By any stretch of the imagination. Sure, maybe it's not for you. Sure, maybe the combat wasn't as deep as you were expecting. Sure, maybe the cutscenes don't look like Mass Effect. But it doesn't suck.
I can understand complaints about aspects of the game. It's not perfect. And it may not be the kind of game everyone wants to play. But to just come out and say it sucks and has no redeeming qualities is petty and infantile.
Stoney Mason
Banned
Not that knocking the story isn't a valid criticism but I think personally that viewing the game as sort of a cross between Diablo and DMC, I've never really liked the stories in either of those two games or pretty much any diablo clone in general. I view the story in these types of games as something to be endured between fighting bosses and getting loot so if the too human story isn't a great one, I can't say that bothers me too much.
The 10 hour thing does bug me though. I do care about the depth of the content. I know there are different classes which will provide some replay incentive but still.
The 10 hour thing does bug me though. I do care about the depth of the content. I know there are different classes which will provide some replay incentive but still.
Hawk269
Member
From the little I played of it, I am impressed. Graphically, I think it looks really good. Note that they have been able to make these large areas without texture popping ala Mass Effect. Gameplay wise, I still need to play more, but for a game that was not really on my radar (I have not followed it much, other than some of the amusing GAF bashing) but now, after playing the demo, I think it is a sure buy for me.
Cannot wait to get home tonight to play some more of it, watch the MS conference and hopefully we will get another demo today or tommorow.
Bottomline - much more impressed with the game than I thought I would. Pleasently suprised..
Cannot wait to get home tonight to play some more of it, watch the MS conference and hopefully we will get another demo today or tommorow.
Bottomline - much more impressed with the game than I thought I would. Pleasently suprised..
Stoney Mason
Banned
memecomplex said:
Personally I never cared for all that repeated clicking. I prefer the clones that allow me to just hold a button until creature is dead and then move the cursor to the next creature and repeat the process.
Testicular Sound Express
Member
lmao someone had the nerve to say this could have been Diablo 3. Moneyhats confirmed.
Stoney Mason
Banned
onemic said:
I don't know if that is the case but then I didn't read through the early portions of the thread very aggressively. A poll thread might be interesting to see results on impressions of the demo.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Stoney Mason said:
Yeah, I think "sucks" is a little strong. That implies a complete lack interest on behalf of the developers. It's extremely average.
Jack Random
Member
Lots of group-think.onemic said:
Its hard to tell the difference between the bandwagon and the real opinions, but Dyack really did a thorough job of making sure the game would be flayed on this board if it was anything but perfect.
It's really difficult to remain impartial considering how much of a douche he's been throughout the proceedings.
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
game doesn't suck, definitely, but it's all being exaggerated by ski-high expectations and Dyack's own words about the game
at the end of the day, it's an average game with some annoying parts
at the end of the day, it's an average game with some annoying parts
I think what has happened is that Mr. Dyack, as the chief of this project, has been wearing rose colored glasses. I'm sure it has looked good to him due to wishful thinking (denial?). Too bad, the competition is great so a medium game looks worse by comparison.
I mean Mass Effect wasn't the greatest as far game play, graphics, but the story line really pushed it up there to a 9-9.5. So it held it's own in 2007.
From looking at various forums and people's reactions, I'm predicting a 7.5 on Metacritic (probably 0.5 added to a 7 for sympathy/admiration at Mr. Dyack's chutzpah. )
I mean Mass Effect wasn't the greatest as far game play, graphics, but the story line really pushed it up there to a 9-9.5. So it held it's own in 2007.
From looking at various forums and people's reactions, I'm predicting a 7.5 on Metacritic (probably 0.5 added to a 7 for sympathy/admiration at Mr. Dyack's chutzpah. )
SketchTheArtist
Member
Geez, I really wanted to like this! Really I did. I even wanted Denis to become this underdog figure, but he just shot himself in the foot by screaming on every rooftops that this was suppose to be THE game for Silicon Knight.
I'm just saddened. The character models are sub-par (why do all the soldiers have the same face?!), the controls and especially the camera are clunky, don't forget you need a good camera in these types of games. Badly directed and uninteresting cut-scenes, though some of the animations, say for one of the three women in the garden, the one on the right, was well-made, most of them feel stiff and lack character.
Also, a little thing that bugged the shit out of me, the idle animation. It's fine if you're stopping in the middle of nowhere but when you're in the middle of a scripted animation with the camera panning in a dramatic shot and two NPCs discuss the architecture and the story that holds these walls, I don't want my character moving his arms around like he was freakin' breakdancing! It just breaks the moment and the immersion.
Sorry Denis, I know how hard it is making a game, but bad design choices are bad design choices all the way up to release even if you push-back the game.
Best luck in the future.
I'm just saddened. The character models are sub-par (why do all the soldiers have the same face?!), the controls and especially the camera are clunky, don't forget you need a good camera in these types of games. Badly directed and uninteresting cut-scenes, though some of the animations, say for one of the three women in the garden, the one on the right, was well-made, most of them feel stiff and lack character.
Also, a little thing that bugged the shit out of me, the idle animation. It's fine if you're stopping in the middle of nowhere but when you're in the middle of a scripted animation with the camera panning in a dramatic shot and two NPCs discuss the architecture and the story that holds these walls, I don't want my character moving his arms around like he was freakin' breakdancing! It just breaks the moment and the immersion.
Sorry Denis, I know how hard it is making a game, but bad design choices are bad design choices all the way up to release even if you push-back the game.
Best luck in the future.
I don't think it's a bad game in the least. The hyperbole here is over the top, i've played shit ten times worse than this. But this is a flawed game make no mistake about it. The animation is poor but I can forgive that. I found the graphics quite decent, a little bland in the dungeon perhaps, but you can't judge the whole game off one area. The cutscenes I didn't mind and I think the narrative had a lot of potential. I didn't take note of the embarrassing dialogue everyone seems to be talking about, rather I saw a good deal of imagination and thought that's gone into the games story. It strikes me as an interesting game universe which is more than I can say for most games right off the bat.
The core gameplay itself has a bit of potential but the camera is a big problem. Not having free movement on the right stick I can forgive if the system they use to replace it with is competent. This system isn't. Freelook sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. The character has to be still to free look which is very annoying, that may pass in something like Metroid Prime but it isn't going to pass in a 3rd person action game. Changing view in the midst of battle becomes difficult and frustrating. And the auto-follow of the camera behind the character just isn't up to scratch.
The use of the right stick for combat creates all these camera problems and significantly changes the way which most gamers are used to controlling these games. When you change the status quo you have to be damn sure your alternative is going to work and work well. Here it doesn't. That doesn't make the game bad but it is a rather significant flaw and really distracts from the fun. I should never have to fight the camera whilst I play a game, here I am and that's a problem.
The combat can be quite enjoyable at times, but usually I'm swinging and twirling all over the place. I don't think I ever did 'get' the combat, but I think given time the system is something you could probably get used too and become competent at it. Using pistols is interesting, I did that a lot. There also seem to be powers you can use as well like a star wars force push which was rather cool. Still, a never got a real grasp on the combat like I said. If there was certain way I should have been doing things it should have been made clear to me when I was playing. Like some sort of tutorial or something.
The potential is there for this game though. But it's being let down by some fundamental problems that really need to be fixed before the game goes gold, but I'm sure they won't be. And that's a shame.
Demo score 7/10.
The core gameplay itself has a bit of potential but the camera is a big problem. Not having free movement on the right stick I can forgive if the system they use to replace it with is competent. This system isn't. Freelook sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. The character has to be still to free look which is very annoying, that may pass in something like Metroid Prime but it isn't going to pass in a 3rd person action game. Changing view in the midst of battle becomes difficult and frustrating. And the auto-follow of the camera behind the character just isn't up to scratch.
The use of the right stick for combat creates all these camera problems and significantly changes the way which most gamers are used to controlling these games. When you change the status quo you have to be damn sure your alternative is going to work and work well. Here it doesn't. That doesn't make the game bad but it is a rather significant flaw and really distracts from the fun. I should never have to fight the camera whilst I play a game, here I am and that's a problem.
The combat can be quite enjoyable at times, but usually I'm swinging and twirling all over the place. I don't think I ever did 'get' the combat, but I think given time the system is something you could probably get used too and become competent at it. Using pistols is interesting, I did that a lot. There also seem to be powers you can use as well like a star wars force push which was rather cool. Still, a never got a real grasp on the combat like I said. If there was certain way I should have been doing things it should have been made clear to me when I was playing. Like some sort of tutorial or something.
The potential is there for this game though. But it's being let down by some fundamental problems that really need to be fixed before the game goes gold, but I'm sure they won't be. And that's a shame.
Demo score 7/10.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
hc2 said:
And Mass Effect had problems, but none that really got in the way of your fun. At its most basic form, you could still just run around and shoot dudes if you wanted.
Stoney Mason
Banned
Anasui Kishibe said:
Mostly agree although I like it more.
While he's certainly needed to keep his mouth shut a lot more, the weird fixation GAF has on the game has also seemed odd.
Whatever. A year from now people will provide an accurate evaluation of the game's merits and flaws without all the heat of the moment hyperbole.
Speschal K
Member
I had a lot of fun with the demo and I was disappointed when it had to be over. I had just gotten some really awesome gear, including a badass helmet and hammer and couldn't wait to try it out. I noticed a lot of the stuff people mentioned in this thread as being present, but it just didn't seem to bother me when I played.
For those of you that had problems with the combat, were you solely killing stuff with melee weapons or were you also using your guns? I found a lot of fun to be had between switching between ranged and melee combat depending on the situation. Reloading was kind of a pain but I understand why it's there. The demo definitely turned me back onto the game and I will most likely be getting it soon after its release.
For those of you that had problems with the combat, were you solely killing stuff with melee weapons or were you also using your guns? I found a lot of fun to be had between switching between ranged and melee combat depending on the situation. Reloading was kind of a pain but I understand why it's there. The demo definitely turned me back onto the game and I will most likely be getting it soon after its release.
Kabuki Waq
Member
you know i would this on Par with Sudeki.
6.5 game decent rental at best. If you are really fancy looking armour you may be able to overlook the obvious flaws in Gameplay and animation.
6.5 game decent rental at best. If you are really fancy looking armour you may be able to overlook the obvious flaws in Gameplay and animation.
Feral Youth
Banned
joey_z said:
Hmm...interesting.
Thought this myself while playing.
StormyTheRabbit
Member
I don't even own a 360 and I know how this will turn out:
A mediocre game, with a unique story, but will suffer due to the "Molenuex Syndrome" (sp?) and thus will look worse. Which is a shame as I was very much interested in this title.
A mediocre game, with a unique story, but will suffer due to the "Molenuex Syndrome" (sp?) and thus will look worse. Which is a shame as I was very much interested in this title.
Feral Youth
Banned
This game makes me tired and fatigued, so I decided not to play it anymore.
So booted it up again just to see if I missed anything with the combat.....and no....the list of "advanced combat" is sooo incredible short. Had no problem to pull off any of the stuff there and it was just not fun. Especially the air juggle is sooo bad...
Had to turn off the demo again after few minutes.
The only time combat at least "looked cool" was when I randomly moved the stick around....
I just don't see how this is supposed to be fun over the length of a full game.
And is there really no map in this game?
Had to turn off the demo again after few minutes.
The only time combat at least "looked cool" was when I randomly moved the stick around....
I just don't see how this is supposed to be fun over the length of a full game.
And is there really no map in this game?
Shawnwhann
Banned
Dear Denis,
I'm sorry that you and your team has wasted 10 years of your lives on such an average game. Not that it's teeeeerrrriiible, but it is not even remotely close to those grandiose statements you made about the game. The fallout will be massive, but hopefully you take it straight on the chin and give us an Eternal Darkness 2!
-Shawnwhann
I'm sorry that you and your team has wasted 10 years of your lives on such an average game. Not that it's teeeeerrrriiible, but it is not even remotely close to those grandiose statements you made about the game. The fallout will be massive, but hopefully you take it straight on the chin and give us an Eternal Darkness 2!
-Shawnwhann
I didn't think the demo was bad. The environments looked much better than I thought, and animation was better than I expected considering some people's reactions. Moving sticks around to attack just feels so unnatural that it wasn't any fun for me. When I first heard about the concept and saw the sliding, I thought it would work mostly on one stick, that I'd be able to move around with the left when needed and just kill everything with the right. Using both felt more like the AI was playing than I was. I was almost always surrounded by enemies, and tipping the sticks in any direction was killing them. Maybe this feeling's because I didn't bother to get into the tapping, serving, double tapping, etc.
The equipment menu is terrible. It was so bulky and slow that I'm not sure it's finished yet. I can't believe someone compared this to Mass Effect's.
Cyberspace felt useless in the situations they showed. :/
The equipment menu is terrible. It was so bulky and slow that I'm not sure it's finished yet. I can't believe someone compared this to Mass Effect's.
Cyberspace felt useless in the situations they showed. :/
Dark Octave
Banned
I've never been excited for Too Human even in the slightest, but either Gaf is full of hate and too critical, or almost every other forum on the net is delusional with very low standards.
Most people on other forums are ranging from "it's aight" to "OMFG!! THIS GAME IS TEH UBERZEZ!!!" The one thing that EVERYONE can agree on is the camera needs work.
:lol But I can't find a forum yet that shares the same hate that you guys do for Too Human.
Not that I give a shit either way though. Just an observation.
Most people on other forums are ranging from "it's aight" to "OMFG!! THIS GAME IS TEH UBERZEZ!!!" The one thing that EVERYONE can agree on is the camera needs work.
:lol But I can't find a forum yet that shares the same hate that you guys do for Too Human.
Not that I give a shit either way though. Just an observation.
I didn't care for it. No sense of connecting with anything you strike at in the game, makes for a flat sensation in combat (like the opposite of something like gears of war where things have some thud).
I thought the camera and options of views was nicely implemented. Though in such vast rooms, I can't imagine the camera being problematic in many games. Still I don't understand the camera hate.
I thought the camera and options of views was nicely implemented. Though in such vast rooms, I can't imagine the camera being problematic in many games. Still I don't understand the camera hate.