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[Symphonic]

Guys don't worry it will be revealed in this movie that the dinosaurs are actually visually created by humans perception of them.

 

[KtSlime]

It would be stupid to add feathers after 3 films. It would fuck up continuity in a big way. They just need to roll with the frog DNA story and there's no problem.

Who the hell cares about continuity? That was done-in by the first 10 minutes of the very first film, the corpse then dug back up for the second film, and left out to exposed with the third.

 

[antonz]

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Who the hell cares about continuity? That was done-in by the first 10 minutes of the very first film, the corpse then dug back up for the second film, and left out to exposed with the third.

What the hell is this post about? I can't understand it.

 

[KtSlime]

What the hell is this post about? I can't understand it.

I'm not a fan of the films, the least they can do if they want to stretch the series out with a fourth one is have some sort of factual components in it.

The 4th film does not interest me beyond trying to understand why people are perpetuating the myth of reptilian-like theropods.

 

[Galang]

Hmmm I was intrigued to see how they would cope with feathers, but doesn't bother me it's not being used.

Just hoping the movie will be good, feathers are my last concern currently

 

[Anticitizen One]

There is still no evidence that ALL dinosaurs had feathers and aside from "raptors" (which were made up for the movies anyway) none of the JP Dinosaurs have had any discoveries indicating they had feathers. Show me proof that Dilophosaurus, Triceratops, Stegosaurus, or Trex had feathers and ill show you a green dog

This is a non-issue being blown out of proportion by trendy paleontologist wannabes

 

[crazy monkey]

fuck yeah.

 

[Green Mamba]

There is still no evidence that ALL dinosaurs had feathers and aside from "raptors" (which were made up for the movies anyway) none of the JP Dinosaurs have had any discoveries indicating they had feathers. Show me proof that Dilophosaurus, Triceratops, Stegosaurus, or Trex had feathers and ill show you a green dog

This is a non-issue being blown out of proportion by trendy paleontologist wannabes

Show me proof that Tyrannosaurus had eyeballs.

 

[Symphonic]

Show me proof that Tyrannosaurus had eyeballs.

And this is the point where you all realize the argument is dumb/pointless in the context of a summer popcorn flick

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

But why can't we have both?

I'm happy with canonical JP dinosaurs.. I freaking love the way they look actually.

But I wanted to see modern science incorporated somehow in a big way, such as a new species of fully feathered and accurate Dromaeosaur. I keep saying it, but if the movie had JP style dinos but then a flock of Microraptors made a cameo I would be happy. The public would see dinosaurs with feathers and be like 'what the fuck?' and then look into it.

Jurassic Park was made to be forward thinking and embrace science.. the dinosaurs were meant to be animals, not monsters. I just would really like to see that philosophy carried over to this movie.

 

[Anton Sugar]

What the hell is this post about? I can't understand it.

He's saying that it's stupid to argue about lore/canon continuity in a series as whimsical as JP. Every movie had little to do with the last except in the weakest of frameworks--even Malcolm is basically a completely different character in TLW.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I say keep feathers for a reboot where modern scientists take InGen's ideas but use bird DNA and "lol we won't make the same mistakes" but life finds a way, shit happns, feathered dinos on the loose. The viral ad campaign would be perfect. Someone filming their dog barking at a "turkey" in the bush until 2 more lunge from either side tearing it apart with shaky cam convenience hiding what they really are. (I've had this idea for years and even think I posted it somewhere here)

 

[IsntChrisL]

Who the hell cares about continuity? That was done-in by the first 10 minutes of the very first film, the corpse then dug back up for the second film, and left out to exposed with the third.

Viewers. Most people don't know what the hell you just said. Most people will notice that feathers suddenly appeared on their raptors.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Show me proof that Tyrannosaurus had eyeballs.

Your missing my point. The current scientific evidence for feathers is for the smaller theropods that evolved into birds. Not ALL dinosaurs.

 

[Forceatowulf]

 

[KtSlime]

Viewers. Most people don't know what the hell you just said. Most people will notice that feathers suddenly appeared on their raptors.

Haha, if viewers consider the Jurassic Park series as one with continuity, I feel sorry for their brains.

Honestly, I think that if movie goers can deal with Andrew Garfield and Tobey Maguire both being Peter Parker, they can deal with a handful of the dinosaurs being rendered with greater accuracy - updated with our latest understanding of science's findings.

I just find it odd that many of you don't want the dinosaurs to look like dinosaurs, so I give up, continue your fetishizing of Victorian era terrible lizards.

Anton Sugar: Bingo.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Haha, if viewers consider the Jurassic Park series as one with continuity, I feel sorry for their brains.

Honestly, I think that if movie goers can deal with Andrew Garfield and Tobey Maguire both being Peter Parker, they can deal with a handful of the dinosaurs being rendered with greater accuracy - updated with our latest understanding of science's findings.

I just find it odd that many of you don't want the dinosaurs to look like dinosaurs, so I give up, continue your fetishizing of Victorian era terrible lizards.

Anton Sugar: Bingo.

How in the world does Jurassic Park continue to fetishize victorian era ideas when the fucking first movie was the one that permanently shattered that conception???

 

[KtSlime]

How in the world does Jurassic Park continue to fetishize victorian era ideas when the fucking first movie was the one that permanently shattered that conception???

By sticking to the conception they (Crichton, Spielberg) created instead of following the evidence. It is a minor exaggeration to illustrate that you are acting no better than those who were slow to accept the findings in the 70's that so influenced the first film.

 

[H2Yo]

 

[Amalthea]

They cloned Velociraptors which belong to the family.

We are learning that more and more dinosaurs were feathered.. it just blows my mind that a feathered dino wouldn't at least have a cameo.

Let's hope they have digitally removed the feathers from the real birds in the closing scene of JP3D. So much more better! sarcasm

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Your missing my point. The current scientific evidence for feathers is for the smaller theropods that evolved into birds. Not ALL dinosaurs.

That might have been true a decade or so ago, but given the diversity of feathered theropods turning up these days, from myriad families and spanning tens of millions of years and several orders of magnitude in body size, it's increasingly looking like feathers are the rule rather than the exception. To name just two examples, Sciurumimus showed that feathers were present in even basal megalosauroids, far removed from the more derived coelurosaurs that gave rise to birds, and thus likely much more widespread among theropods than previously thought, and the tyrannosauroid Yutyrannus showed that plumage was not solely restricted to small-bodied forms.

... Not that any of this should matter in the context of Jurassic Park. The first film may have made a genuine attempt to present dinosaurs as they were understood by scientists at the time, (with a healthy dose of artistic license), but the sequels descended into increasingly kitschy monster camp, and I'd be surprised if the fourth entry didn't continue the trend.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

 

[Cow Mengde]

Show me proof that Dilophosaurus, Triceratops, Stegosaurus, or Trex had feathers and ill show you a green dog

Two tyrannosauroids had feathers.

Triceratops skin shows it may have been covered in bristles/quills. Basal ceratopia like Psittacosauridae had feathers. Chance are good most of Marginocephalia had feathers cause evidence is abundant for them.

Gallimimus relative call Ornithomimus was discovered to have feathers.

Velociraptors we know had feathers.

 

[Professor Renegade]

JP3 is better IMO because of terrordactyls

That scene was taken from the first novel though.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

So I started collecting my thoughts on JP4 and feathers and it wound up longer than I expected. I decided to create a blog to share it, but I'll post it here also:

20 years ago a movie released that changed the public perception about Dinosaurs. While that film needs no introduction, I am of course speaking of Jurassic Park. Jurassic Park was a science fiction film that brought audiences the closest they had ever been to the magnificent creatures that went extinct over 65 million years ago. The Dinosaurs looked real! This was no small feat, and Stan Winston Studios (now Legacy Effects) and ILM deserve massive credit for creating the technology present in this film that paved the way for modern special effects. As Jurassic Park gears up for a 3D rerelease in theaters April 5th, its accomplishments are all the more evident- the movie still looks amazing, the Dinosaurs are still jaw dropping. Steven Spielberg truly created a timeless film.

But beyond the technology, what is it about the Dinosaurs in Jurassic Park that makes them so believable? Other movies featuring Dinosaurs have come out since then, but they have hardly had the impact of Jurassic Park. Take Peter Jackson’s King Kong (2005) for example, which featured numerous species of Dinosaurs backed up by cutting edge special effects. While that movie employed techniques that ILM could only have dreamed about in 1993, why is that so many state the Dinosaurs of Jurassic Park are more believable? The answer is science. Jurassic Park employed an amazing blend of science fact and science fiction. Steven Spielberg and author of the novel, Michael Crichton, went out of their way to include the latest findings when it came to creating the world of Jurassic Park, and by doing so created a revolution when it came to the public perception of Dinosaurs. No longer were they viewed as reptilian tail dragging monsters; Jurassic Park allowed audiences to see Dinosaurs as agile and intelligent animals. The heavy focus on science had created believable animals, not cringe-worthy monsters.


Jurassic Park was not a monster movie. It was not a horror movie. It was not a mindless action flick. Mind you, while it had certain elements of those listed, it went out of its way to craft an believable and engaging plot driven by science. Now believe me that as much as I hate to admit it, I am well aware that we cannot clone Dinosaurs from DNA preserved in amber. I know that the Tyrannosaurus Rex was not blind to stationary objects, and that Dilophosaurus did not have a frill nor could it spit venom. I am not saying Jurassic Park was perfect, nor would I want it to be. Entertainment is important in cinema, and many of the inaccuracies played a huge role in the suspense of the movie. That said, these inaccuracies did not, at their very essence, break what we knew about Dinosaurs. Artistic license was taken, but the Dinosaurs of Jurassic Park were still believable as ancient prehistoric animals brought back to life. At every corner of the movie Spielberg and co. went out of their way to craft a believable experience that would ‘wow’ and entertain audiences while still staying grounded in realism.

Jurassic Park at its very essence was about science- the science of bringing Dinosaurs back to life, the science of making Dinosaurs real and believable, the main characters who were heavily rooted in science, etc. The movie at its very core brought the latest science to life, and heavily focused many plot points around it. This is what makes the latest tweet from newly appointed Jurassic Park 4 director Colin Trevorrow (@colintrevorrow) so distressing. Colin’s first official words about JP4 since his announcement were simple and to the point- “No feathers. #JP4”. That simple tweet has entirely shattered the philosophy that Jurassic Park was built upon- embracing modern science. Feathers have become synonymous with Dinosaurs in recent years. While they were once thought to be an anomaly that only bird-like Dinosaurs had, recent discoveries have shown that the vast majority of Dinosaur may have likely been sporting feathery plumage. While the thought of a Tyrannosaurus Rex covered in feathers may seem foreign and bizarre, it isn’t as unlikely as you may think. Newley discovered Yutyrannus sported a feathery coat, and it is one of the “Tyrant Lizard King’s” close ancestors. This large (30ft long) Tyrannosaurid is anything but a Raptor, and was nearly entirely covered by basic feathers. This was a breakthrough when it came to feathers; Tyrannosaurids are not related to Dromaeosaurs, which are the ancient relatives to the modern bird and family to the famous Velociraptor. Another non-avian dinosaur to sport early feathers is the Ceratopsian Psittacosaurus, and while that name may be less familiar to some, it is the relative to the well known Triceratops. Psittacosaurus sported long, feather-like quills protruding from its back and tail, and has lead some to believe other larger Ceratopsians sported those as well. It has become clear that feathers did not evolve with avian Dinosaurs, and had existed some time before them. While further studies must be done to see where feathers originated, and which Dinosaurs sported them, more and more evidence leads to the belief that most Dinosaur had feathers in one form or another.

Now, don’t get me wrong, we have skin impressions from numerous dinosaurs as well. From the mosaic pattern skin of the Tyrannosaurus Rex, the pebbly skin of Hadrosaurs to the scute covered Carnotaurus it is clear that not all dinosaur sported plumage. At least, not entirely. Unfortunately we will likely never know every Dinosaur that was feathered nor how widespread the coverage on the body was, but we do know that they were common amongst many species. So why is it that Jurassic Park 4 chooses to ignore such a critical piece of Dinosaur science? To be blunt, the blame is on you. The general public chooses to ignore feathers, scoff at them or be entirely ignorant of their existence. Jurassic Park fans have grown up in love with the original designs and stubbornly refuse to accept advancements in science. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love the original designs of the Dinosaurs, particularly the Tyrannosaurus and would hate to see it altered in Jurassic Park 4. That said, I’m sure many said the same thing going into Jurassic Park- the movie ruined the image of those prehistoric tail dragging monsters. Now personally I am not suggesting that Trevorrow and co. completely re-do the Dinosaurs of Jurassic Park. While I expect the designs to change and be updated, I am happy to accept them with their inaccuracies as part of the established fiction. With the returning favorites they can easily embrace modern science in their behavior rather than their appearance. But what of species that will be new to Jurassic Park? Surely there was room to give a cameo to a feathered critter like the Microraptor? Simply putting a feathered Dinosaur in the movie would do wonders for the public perception and understanding of Dinosaur biology and evolution. The public is ready for feathered Dinosaurs whether they realize it or not, and it saddens me that Jurassic Park 4 will take a step backwards when it comes to the perception of Dinosaur appearance. Jurassic Park has the chance to reach audiences that Paleontologists could only dream of, and many of those watching the movie will base their perception of Dinosaurs strictly on the film. Spielberg knew this when making the first film and went out of his way to create believable animals that would truly emulate bringing Dinosaurs back from the dead.

For a franchise that built its foundations on embracing science the act of entirely ignoring feathered Dinosaur is saddening. Not only has it it skipped over an opportunity to share something with millions of viewers that was likely unknown to many of them, it has chosen to disregard its heritage of what made the franchise a success. I am not alone in my disappointment in this decision- many in the scientific community have already shared their distress. This is a step back for Jurassic Park, a franchise that prided itself in its ability to embrace science and entertainment in a way that other films have never achieved. As a fan of Dinosaurs, a fan of science and most of all, a fan of Jurassic Park I am deeply disappointed, and hope those involved will reconsider their stance on the matter. There is room in Jurassic Park for a feathered Dinosaur, and I hope the spot does not remain vacant.

http://jurassichappenings.blogspot.com/2013/03/my-thoughts-on-jurassic-park-4-and-its.html

Personally, I find it easier to read at the blog. Anyways, if you wish, give it a read and feel free to comment or critique. I just kinda threw it together in a rush, so don't expect much.. also, I know its a touchy subject, so I expect some flak.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

If you want feathers, follow, share and tweet your support to @TeamFeathersJP4! While it may not be much yet, it is gaining support and attention:

While I know it is too late to see the entire design philosophy change as most are probably already finished, it is not too late to have a small CGI feathered Dinosaur cameo, not unlike the small appearance of the Compys in JP3. Personally, I feel it is incredibly important that at least one feathered Dinosaur makes an appearance, no matter how small of a role it gets.. it would do wonders for the public perception of Dinosaurs and really help the growth of recent Paleontological studies.

 

[Cow Mengde]

I know I'll be starting shit on this issue soon. I was kind of prepared for this.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Why don't you guys actually send emails/tweets to the director rather tahn complaining about it on forums? I'm kinda indifferent about the whole thing but if you really feel its important for JP4 to have feathers then go for it.

 

[TriniTrin]

I live in Australia. We have Emus and Ostriches.

wait a minute! how do you interrupt the cellular Mitosis!

lol

This has to be good... IT HAS TO BE!

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Why don't you guys actually send emails/tweets to the director rather tahn complaining about it on forums? I'm kinda indifferent about the whole thing but if you really feel its important for JP4 to have feathers then go for it.

Uh, I am trying to see if anyone else is willing to help out and join in that they would like to see feathers on a Dinosaur in JP4. I'm not just inactively complaining.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I hope that you realized that it's not really dinosaur's foot.

 

[Green Mamba]

I hope that you realized that it's not really dinosaur's foot.

Uh, yes it is. Preserved foot of the extinct Magalapteryx, the Upland Moa.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Uh, yes it is. Preserved foot of the extinct Magalapteryx, the Upland Moa.

It's a flightless bird, not dinosaur.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

It seems like they have a pretty damn tight deadline, don't they? 15 months to cast, film, and do post-production on a big budget adventure movie? Is the script done?

 

[Green Mamba]

It's a flightless bird, not dinosaur.

Birds are dinosaurs, just as humans are primates and primates are vertebrates. The distinction is meaningless. A flamingo is just as much a dinosaur as Tyrannosaurus rex.

The modern definition of Dinosauria is commonly given as the most recent common ancestor of Megalosaurus and Iguanodon and all of its descendants. Birds fall well within this grouping, and any definition of Dinosauria that you can come up with that you want to include T.rex and kin within requires you to include birds. The other common definition of Dinosauria is the most recent common ancestor of Triceratops and Passer (House Sparrow) and all of its descendants, but both definitions give you the same grouping.

 

[JdFoX187]

It seems like they have a pretty damn tight deadline, don't they? 15 months to cast, film, and do post-production on a big budget adventure movie? Is the script done?

Spielberg did all of that on War of the Worlds within nine months, if I remember right. It can be done. Judging from comments made by the director last year, this is something they've been working on for a while. Universal just never made any formal announcements.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

It seems like they have a pretty damn tight deadline, don't they? 15 months to cast, film, and do post-production on a big budget adventure movie? Is the script done?

Its certainly a bit tight, but it seems they have had a schedule and a plan for some time now so Im less worried. Legacy Effects are either almost done with or already done with their animatronics from what I have heard. As for the script, yeah, I believe it is 'finished' (I'm sure its always seeing constant tweaks and updates though).

My biggest worry (other than the Trevorrows inexperience with a movie of this scale) is the CG at the point- I have not heard anything about ILMs involvement leading me to believe work will be outsourced elsewhere..

My other worry is that Dr. Horner seems to be out of the loop with the movie.. It almost seems as if he has been cut loose but hasn't been told. I do hope they have a paleontological consultant.

 

[Anticitizen One]

It seems like they have a pretty damn tight deadline, don't they? 15 months to cast, film, and do post-production on a big budget adventure movie? Is the script done?

Yes script is done. The writers were hired last year and completed their final draft a few months ago. Same time who wrote Planet of the Apes

 

[Dead]

Rise of the Planet of the Apes was also a movie that was made on a super tight deadling, so much so that no one pre-release conceived it could possibly be good. Also featured numerous special effects and a relatively newcomer director. Turned out pretty damn good to everyones surprise...

Hopefully the same will happen with JP4...

 

[Mariolee]

Rise of the Planet of the Apes was also a movie that was made on a super tight deadling, so much so that no one pre-release conceived it could possibly be good. Also featured numerous special effects and a relatively newcomer director. Turned out pretty damn good to everyones surprise...

Hopefully the same will happen with JP4...

That film was lightning in a bottle, and wasn't really anything to write home about. It was simply better than it deserved to be if that makes sense. I'm skeptical they can replicate it again with JP4.

 

[Amalthea]

My other worry is that Dr. Horner seems to be out of the loop with the movie.. It almost seems as if he has been cut loose but hasn't been told. I do hope they have a paleontological consultant.

If there won't be feathered Dinos both Bakker and Horner (and any sane Paleontologist) might boycott the movie anyway.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

If there won't be feathered Dinos both Bakker and Horner (and any sane Paleontologist) might boycott the movie anyway.

Thats why it is imperative that they feature at least one feathered animal that reflects modern science. People go into these movies thinking they are mostly accurate- if they don't see feathers and then see them elsewhere they will be like wtf is this bs. Its a shame they are throwing away science entirely- I'm fine the the originals returning loyal to their old designs, but why can't we get feathers when something new shows up? Feathered and non-feathered Dinosaurs coexisted, so there is no reason why InGen couldn't have created a feathered critter. Ultimately, I want to see a feathered dinosaur in Jurassic Park and not just because of my Paleo roots.. I think it would be cool to see their take on one and it would fill a neat role in the movies.

At this point I would be happy if they just see some feathered Dinosaurs bouncing around and chasing insects in the foreground or background during a scene.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

JP4 officially has two art team members!

Seth Engstrom - http://sethengstrom.blogspot.ca/

He has worked on numerous movies, including Avatar and John Carter:

Dean Sherriff - http://www.deansherriff.com/dean/Home.html

He has worked on movies such as MI4, After Earth, and Watchmen:

----

On top of this, rumor (from a good source) has it that Legacy has been working on the Dinosaurs since early this year.

 

[Konka]

So did Sauropods have feathers?

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

So did Sauropods have feathers?

As far as I know there is no direct evidence for feathered Sauropods.. that said, its is reasonable that some sauropods had some form of feathering, however minor.

 

[Anton Sugar]

JP4 officially has two art team members!

Seth Engstrom - http://sethengstrom.blogspot.ca/

He has worked on numerous movies, including Avatar and John Carter:

He made John Carter/Tharks look interesting! Encouraging.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

He made John Carter/Tharks look interesting! Encouraging.

I get the feeling they may try to give JP4 a more iconic visual identity.. not that the past films didn't have one.. But I bet they are aiming for visuals that you can identify as JP even without characters or Dinosaurs in the shot.

I honestly think they consider Avatar a threat.. movie-goers probably expect more now. I just hope they keep it subtle and don't force any goofy over the top CG/action scenes that other summer movies are prone to.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

Where is it going to take place? Any info on that yet? I hope it doesn't go the city route JPII did. However I don't think I want them attempting to re-open the park again. It'd be cool if it tried to be a bit original and not just drive on nostalgia.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Where is it going to take place? Any info on that yet? I hope it doesn't go the city route JPII did. However I don't think I want them attempting to re-open the park again. It'd be cool if it tried to be a bit original and not just drive on nostalgia.

So far that unknown, but I suspect it will be some sort of jungle/forest/wilderness while still being a new location. Gut feeling? They may try to make it look like real Paleo forests/foliage. JP touched on the fact that Hammond somehow brought extinct plantlife, so it wouldn't be unprecedented.

And on that note, Ed Verreaux is the Production Designer on JP4

He previously did JP3.