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[DaciaJC]

MS's annual net income, as reported at the end of September, was 72 billion dollars.

72. Billion. Dollars.

For context, that is more than ExxonMobil (51 billion), more than Amazon (20 billion), more than Walmart (11 billion) and more than Disney (2 billion). And even more notable, it was up more than 10% over last year.

By contrast, Nintendo's net profit was $3 billion. Sony's was $6 billion.

You're listing different metrics here as a comparison. What was Microsoft's net profit, or Nintendo/Sony's total income?

 

[reinking]

Nobody thinks Micrsoft is losing money. Some think that Xbox is, or at least struggling. I believe most people around here understand the difference between Microsoft and a division of Microsoft. The question has always been how long of a leash will Microsoft give the Xbox division. That has been a question since day one. It seems that Microsoft has invested heavily in the division so the leash is very long.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

They probably bought Zenimax with trade in credit and Activision on Affirm.

 

[adamsapple]

They probably bought Zenimax with trade in credit and Activision on Affirm.

1 million iou notes to Zenimax leadership.

 

[WitchHunter]

I'm sure many of you here know this, so just blow this thread off if you already have this context...

Much has been made of MS's embarassments lately: sagging XBX and XBS sales in Europe, the critical disappointment that is Starfield, the protracted legal battle to (perhaps?) overpay for Activision, the interview snafus of Phil Spencer, etc. And all of the criticism is valid, to one degree or another, imho.

But one thing that is needs to inform every single "Xbox is crumbling" opinion is...MS wields wealth beyond any degree any other player in the gaming industry can possibly engage with.

MS's annual net income, as reported at the end of September, was 72 billion dollars.

72. Billion. Dollars.

For context, that is more than ExxonMobil (51 billion), more than Amazon (20 billion), more than Walmart (11 billion) and more than Disney (2 billion). And even more notable, it was up more than 10% over last year.

By contrast, Nintendo's net profit was $3 billion. Sony's was $6 billion.

Now I'm sure that they don't like their gaming division losing money or making big public mistakes. But guys....72 billion dollars. I mean...Xbox is nothing to them.

Anyway, I'd always known they were rich, but I enjoyed getting some perspective on the bigger (and more 2023-oriented) picture. I don't have any particular dog in this race; I just hope this thread is useful/interesting to some of you here.

And now your dick grew by 2cms finishing this or what? : DDDDDDDD

I mean people nowadays are material.

 

[Audiophile]

MS is a Rolls Royce Phantom and the Xbox division is their vanity plates.

 

[Bojji]

I'm sure many of you here know this, so just blow this thread off if you already have this context...

Much has been made of MS's embarassments lately: sagging XBX and XBS sales in Europe, the critical disappointment that is Starfield, the protracted legal battle to (perhaps?) overpay for Activision, the interview snafus of Phil Spencer, etc. And all of the criticism is valid, to one degree or another, imho.

But one thing that is needs to inform every single "Xbox is crumbling" opinion is...MS wields wealth beyond any degree any other player in the gaming industry can possibly engage with.

MS's annual net income, as reported at the end of September, was 72 billion dollars.

72. Billion. Dollars.

For context, that is more than ExxonMobil (51 billion), more than Amazon (20 billion), more than Walmart (11 billion) and more than Disney (2 billion). And even more notable, it was up more than 10% over last year.

By contrast, Nintendo's net profit was $3 billion. Sony's was $6 billion.

Now I'm sure that they don't like their gaming division losing money or making big public mistakes. But guys....72 billion dollars. I mean...Xbox is nothing to them.

Anyway, I'd always known they were rich, but I enjoyed getting some perspective on the bigger (and more 2023-oriented) picture. I don't have any particular dog in this race; I just hope this thread is useful/interesting to some of you here.

But how much money Xbox division is making (or losing)?

Xbox is just a tiny fraction of MS while PS is massive part of Sony, Nintendo is making money almost entirely on games and game hardware.

 

[AngelMuffin]

By contrast, Nintendo's net profit was $3 billion. Sony's was $6 billion.


Why are you comparing Microsoft’s net income to Sony/Nintendo’s net profit?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

By contrast, Nintendo's net profit was $3 billion. Sony's was $6 billion.


Why are you comparing Microsoft’s net income to Sony/Nintendo’s net profit?

Op rushes to make a thread about financials without even understanding what he's posting.

Lol.

 

[Solarstrike]

Micro Monopolysoft

 

[bitbydeath]

If Xbox went under, the cost to Microsoft is the equivalent of any normal person losing a $5 dollar bill.

That's why in the RROD saga they didnt even blink at dropping $1billion to fix the issue.

They did more than blink, they blamed the consumers for more than a year before having to pay up that one billion.

 

[deriks]

Microsoft has a lot of money, but Xbox is not the full thing of them. Not even by faro. Sony has a lot of stuff too, and 6 billion is huge for them. The winner still is Nintendo, because they only sell videogames

Economics is not that simple, man

 

[twilo99]

By contrast, Nintendo's net profit was $3 billion. Sony's was $6 billion.


Why are you comparing Microsoft’s net income to Sony/Nintendo’s net profit?

Here you go:

Stock Comparison Tool | MacroTrends

www.macrotrends.net

If you look on the previous page I posted their quarter break down where you can see that they are currently pulling in around ~22 billion in profit per quarter. MS has been on a tear since around 2017 and they've gone into "unsustainable" territory in my opinion.

 

[poppabk]

By contrast, Nintendo's net profit was $3 billion. Sony's was $6 billion.


Why are you comparing Microsoft’s net income to Sony/Nintendo’s net profit?

Because net income and net profit are basically the same thing?

 

[Lokaum D+]

so, they have money to buy everyone out there, but the real question is...

can MS make good games by itself ?

 

[damidu]

honestly all this makes phil&co seem even bigger losers then you already realized.

 

[AngelMuffin]

Because net income and net profit are basically the same thing?

Yeah, I guess I would have just used the same terminology throughout. Also, a net income of $72B for Microsoft is ridiculous…and that’s with their underachieving Xbox division.

 

[Crayon]

This is one of the core tenants of the culture. Basically, god gave ms the money to punish Sony for killing Sega.

 

[Deerock71]

Yah. They're financial juggernauts.

 

[struggler_guts]

Wow, really overestimated the profits of those other companies... but dozens of billions really gets hard to comprehend..

 

[DForce]

This is how their quarterly looks like.. just look at the profit margin lol

I lot of people here seem to think exactly that.. or that MS is ran by idiots that just collect paychecks or something

Where are all these people saying MS is crumbling because of Xbox?

Every time I see someone talk about Microsoft crumbling at something, it's just the Xbox division.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Nobody sane denies Microsoft's financial muscle.

We question and wonder about Microsoft's willingness to subsidize and sustain Xbox if it doesn't make enough profits for a long enough period.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Nobody sane denies Microsoft's financial muscle.

We question and wonder about Microsoft's willingness to subsidize and sustain Xbox if it doesn't make enough profits for a long enough period.

It's been 20 years and Xbox is still here. And MS is expanding buying up studios. So it's not going anywhere.

On the other hand, Sony has been going multiplatform with PC gaming and even has games on Xbox and Switch because it cant sustain itself with exclusive first party games.

Dont be surprised if Sony's onslaught of GAAS coming soon are day one on PC.

 

[Mooreberg]

I will preface this by pointing out I just picked up an XSX and won't be in the market for a PS5 until more is known about what PS5 Pro is as a concrete consumer product, and how or if it will impact the pricing on existing SKUs.

If gaming doesn't perform well, then there will be pressure to split it off and let it stand on its own in order to boost the share price of Microsoft. This isn't just a whacky fanboy theory, they have talked about it before.

A good example is Microsoft's exit from the smartphone market. Getting carriers to provide 0% financing on $1000 phones that the average customer won't make full use of can make you more valuable than a Saudi oil company. But they still punted on that market, because consumers were going elsewhere.

People aren't saying MS is crumbing, people are talking about the Xbox division specifically.

If they were rich and willing to throw any kind of money at the wall, then they would have never cut so many jobs within the past year.

Are you aware of the price increase to their subscription services and consoles?

MS cares about making money. They want that division to do better. Period.

Phil Spencer has been promoted on a consistent basis in recent years, despite the past decade not being the Xbox Brand's finest hour. He was just authorized to spend around $80 billion on acquisitions in the past two years. Microsoft's involvement in gaming isn't going anywhere, but it is fair to ask exactly what shape that will take.

I was just going to write this exact sentence.

Their gaming division alone could be in a worse position than Sony and Nintendo but that doesn't mean they are in danger.
They said it themselves, they are in a position to spend Sony out of competition.

They have been in position to "spend Sony out of competition" since the moment they entered the console market. It hasn't happened, and they were never in a better position to do it than the first three years of PS3's lifecycle. They just bought a publisher that is worth $23 billion more than Nintendo. But it will be until at least the next hardware cycle before not releasing those major properties on platforms they don't own (including Steam) becomes a sane option. The Xbox brand has just somehow managed to not build the mindshare it should have among consumers, particularly for product like backed by a $2.7 trillion megacorp.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

If gaming doesn't perform well, then there will be pressure to split it off and let it stand on its own in order to boost the share price of Microsoft. This isn't just a whacky fanboy theory, they have talked about it before.

Xbox is so small within MS' corporate umbrella, splitting it off into it's own company wont move the needle. MS stock and profits are already at record highs.

People have been saying MS would kill off gaming for 10 years when Xbox One came out. Since then, MS has released Xbox One X, Series S/X, launched Game Pass, bought Bethesda, bought Activision, and opened up new smaller studios too.

MS isn't leaving gaming and Xbox anytime soon.

 

[DForce]

Phil Spencer has been promoted on a consistent basis in recent years, despite the past decade not being the Xbox Brand's finest hour. He was just authorized to spend around $80 billion on acquisitions in the past two years. Microsoft's involvement in gaming isn't going anywhere, but it is fair to ask exactly what shape that will take.

Sure Phil Spencer has. Still doesn't change my point.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I’ve heard of this Microsoft company before too, my understanding is the have taken over the fudge market too

 

[gothmog]

Microsoft has shown they can be very successful by spending their way to the table. Money talks more than ever.

 

[twilo99]

Microsoft has shown they can be very successful by spending their way to the table. Money talks more than ever.

Does money = success or the other way around?

You see, you can only buy your way to sucess if you are already successful, unless someone just gives you cash to spend.

No one gave Microsoft any gifts in the 80s and 90s, that was top tier engineering and crafty busniess tactics in a ruthless environment.. kill or be killed kinda situation. All of that paid off, so now, yes.. they can "buy" success if that's what they need to do

 

[Klosshufvud]

Future generations will look back in shame at us. We allow these corporations seemingly endless profits and never-ending expansions based on them exploiting a monopoly market position. Corporate profits soar year after year and it's the little guy paying the price by rampant inflation and less market product choices. MS has now locked most of its software behind exploitative subscription schemes and the lack of proper alternatives basically allow them to charge as they see fit.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Microsoft has shown they can be very successful by spending their way to the table. Money talks more than ever.

I'd argue it has been the exact opposite.

• Microsoft bought Mixer and spent a buttload of money. They still lost to Twitch.
• Microsoft bought Nokia for $7.2 billion and ran it to the ground. Google, Samsung, Apple won.
• Microsoft bought Skype for $8.5 billion. It became a colossal failure. Products like Zoom won.

More often than not, Microsoft's heavy investments have only resulted in huge losses. They have not been successful at most of these ventures.

 

[Klosshufvud]

I'd argue it has been the exact opposite.

• Microsoft bought Mixer and spent a buttload of money. They still lost to Twitch.
• Microsoft bought Nokia for $7.2 billion and ran it to the ground. Google, Samsung, Apple won.
• Microsoft bought Skype for $8.5 billion. It became a colossal failure. Products like Zoom won.

More often than not, Microsoft's heavy investments have only resulted in huge losses. They have not been successful at most of these ventures.

What's more tragic is that those were promising products before MS came along. There is a long history of MS absorbing an up-and-coming product with huge potential and just destroying it in a mad pursuit of short term profits. A similar thing is happening in video games with them absorbing a huge chunk of western third parties. MS spends the money but it will be us that pay for its consequences.

 

[gothmog]

Does money = success or the other way around?

You see, you can only buy your way to sucess if you are already successful, unless someone just gives you cash to spend.

No one gave Microsoft any gifts in the 80s and 90s, that was top tier engineering and crafty busniess tactics in a ruthless environment.. kill or be killed kinda situation. All of that paid off, so now, yes.. they can "buy" success if that's what they need to do

It's hard to say. Microsoft had both business and engineering muscle because of where Windows put them. Above all they made money, spent it, and continue to spend it which is why these tech giants are where they are.

 

[UltimaKilo]

I don’t get what OPs point is here? Microsoft’s other divisions are not what we are here to discuss, only Xbox. Yes, it’s a small part of their business, so what?

 

[Mooreberg]

Missed this one:

It's been 20 years and Xbox is still here. And MS is expanding buying up studios. So it's not going anywhere.

On the other hand, Sony has been going multiplatform with PC gaming and even has games on Xbox and Switch because it cant sustain itself with exclusive first party games.

Dont be surprised if Sony's onslaught of GAAS coming soon are day one on PC.

PlayStation Hits Its Best Second Quarter Sales Ever as PS5 & Third Party Games Lift Sony’s FY 2023 Q2 Report

Gaining a market share position for your games to sell more, collect more in third party royalties, and being the main platform for l̶u̶n̶a̶t̶i̶c̶s̶ highly engaged consumers blowing more on a single game than Hunter Biden at a strip club is where the money is. MLB The Show on Switch or The Nathan Drake Collection on Steam are nice supplementary income, but that isn't how an operation the size of PlayStation "sustains" itself.

Sure Phil Spencer has. Still doesn't change my point.

I agree with your point. I'm just saying that Microsoft has exhibited an extreme level of willingness to let Phil steer to ship into more profitable waters. I do think this includes some major strategy changes before the next round of new consoles.

 

[Loomy]

But one thing that is needs to inform every single "Xbox is crumbling" opinion is...MS wields wealth beyond any degree any other player in the gaming industry can possibly engage with.

Both can be true. Xbox division can be underperforming while MS as a whole does well.

 

[John Wick]

I'm sure many of you here know this, so just blow this thread off if you already have this context...

Much has been made of MS's embarassments lately: sagging XBX and XBS sales in Europe, the critical disappointment that is Starfield, the protracted legal battle to (perhaps?) overpay for Activision, the interview snafus of Phil Spencer, etc. And all of the criticism is valid, to one degree or another, imho.

But one thing that is needs to inform every single "Xbox is crumbling" opinion is...MS wields wealth beyond any degree any other player in the gaming industry can possibly engage with.

MS's annual net income, as reported at the end of September, was 72 billion dollars.

72. Billion. Dollars.

For context, that is more than ExxonMobil (51 billion), more than Amazon (20 billion), more than Walmart (11 billion) and more than Disney (2 billion). And even more notable, it was up more than 10% over last year.

By contrast, Nintendo's net profit was $3 billion. Sony's was $6 billion.

Now I'm sure that they don't like their gaming division losing money or making big public mistakes. But guys....72 billion dollars. I mean...Xbox is nothing to them.

Anyway, I'd always known they were rich, but I enjoyed getting some perspective on the bigger (and more 2023-oriented) picture. I don't have any particular dog in this race; I just hope this thread is useful/interesting to some of you here.

Why didn't you put Apple's net income???
So why was Windows Phone a failure because according to your logic MS have money?
Or Zune?
What happened to Skype?

 

[John Wick]

My point was merely..."How much muscule, relative to other well known businesses in both gaming and otherwise...in 2023 specifically..?"

I'm sure everyone here could Google it if they needed to. I don't know why MS shills are so pathetic always going on about MS wealth as barometer of Xbox sustainability.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

MS being a profitable company has nothing to do with Xbox being a failure and crumbling. Xbox is a failure despite the tons of money they make from other things and it isn't immune to getting shut down just like any other failing division of a successful company.

No one in their right mind thinks MS doesn't have the money to continue Xbox, the question is always if they are willing to continue to do so.



They've shut down many ventures of theirs despite being one of the richest companies in the world (Zune, Skype, Windows Phones, Mixer, etc.). No company, no matter how rich, likes to lose money on failing divisions.


Also, I don't think I've seen anyone say they will shut down the entire Xbox gaming division but rather I've seen people say they would drop the consoles and go more into being a software gaming company which makes more sense. Xbox Studios would still exist but MS wouldn't be wasting R&D money on traditional consoles but rather doing a PC hybrid of sorts and developing more as a third party company.

 

[John Wick]

I'd argue it has been the exact opposite.

• Microsoft bought Mixer and spent a buttload of money. They still lost to Twitch.
• Microsoft bought Nokia for $7.2 billion and ran it to the ground. Google, Samsung, Apple won.
• Microsoft bought Skype for $8.5 billion. It became a colossal failure. Products like Zoom won.

More often than not, Microsoft's heavy investments have only resulted in huge losses. They have not been successful at most of these ventures.

Don't forget search where Google handed their ass to them. It's funny when MS starts losing against other big boys it goes crying to the FTC. Why don't they just compete like Nadella likes to boast???

 

[Kerotan]

Imagine being in his financial position and fumbling so bad. They're like the Manchester United of gaming. Spending billions but still shite.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Very interesting...
But..
Can you tell us the numbers we are interested in? The Xbox division numbers?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Xbox division is merged with the Windows or Office division next year just to keep the numbers good.

 

[intheinbetween]

Well, here’s your regular doom and gloom MS thread in which some folks post about their fantasies of MS splitting or spinning out the XBOX division after investing 70bn $ in an acquisition for this division, not to mention they are an established platform. But hey let’s fantasize about MS quitting the gaming industry or going third-party

 

[ahtlas7]

Xbox devision is there to please investors.

 

[Methos#1975]

The issue isn't MS losing money, it's that the Xbox brand itself doesn't make them any. The Xbox itself sells like complete dog crap and the reality is that every MS published game performs better outside the Xbox. Starfield for example has easily seen the grand share of its success on the PC and not the Xbox. And now stock holders are seeing COD perform astronomically better on the PS5 over the Xbox. The Xbox at this point has become a redundant useless product for MS, there is absolutely no question at all they would make more money if they completly dropped it and move it's games to the Switch, PS5, and PC.

 

[Shubh_C63]

That makes it even more embarassing lol

But yeah, if they just keep hanging on they are bound to make something right.

 

[DJ12]

MS isn't leaving gaming and Xbox anytime soon

People who share this opinion either don't read Phils emails or cannot read between the lines.

Firstly Microsoft gaming was recreated and all but one department isn't xbox related.

Secondly phils own words say if they don't increasing subs to 100million they will pull out.

Obviously they won't increase subs with an ever decreasing market share, so what do you think they'll do?

Pretty clear xbox will be killed and Sony and Nintendo courted to allow gamepass and/or ms just release all there content elsewhere.

No real need for gamepass if you aren't trying to save your own brand.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I don't have any particular dog in this race

Sure buddy…

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Disney being that low has to be clever accounting.

Kind of funny that all the money in the world isn't making them compete in a lot of markets with the Xbox.

 

[The artful mincer]

I'm sure many of you here know this, so just blow this thread off if you already have this context...

Much has been made of MS's embarassments lately: sagging XBX and XBS sales in Europe, the critical disappointment that is Starfield, the protracted legal battle to (perhaps?) overpay for Activision, the interview snafus of Phil Spencer, etc. And all of the criticism is valid, to one degree or another, imho.

But one thing that is needs to inform every single "Xbox is crumbling" opinion is...MS wields wealth beyond any degree any other player in the gaming industry can possibly engage with.

MS's annual net income, as reported at the end of September, was 72 billion dollars.

72. Billion. Dollars.

For context, that is more than ExxonMobil (51 billion), more than Amazon (20 billion), more than Walmart (11 billion) and more than Disney (2 billion). And even more notable, it was up more than 10% over last year.

By contrast, Nintendo's net profit was $3 billion. Sony's was $6 billion.

Now I'm sure that they don't like their gaming division losing money or making big public mistakes. But guys....72 billion dollars. I mean...Xbox is nothing to them.

Anyway, I'd always known they were rich, but I enjoyed getting some perspective on the bigger (and more 2023-oriented) picture. I don't have any particular dog in this race; I just hope this thread is useful/interesting to some of you here.

Why did you include Disney In that comparison lol.