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[Archaic101]

I'm sure many of you here know this, so just blow this thread off if you already have this context...

Much has been made of MS's embarassments lately: sagging XBX and XBS sales in Europe, the critical disappointment that is Starfield, the protracted legal battle to (perhaps?) overpay for Activision, the interview snafus of Phil Spencer, etc. And all of the criticism is valid, to one degree or another, imho.

But one thing that is needs to inform every single "Xbox is crumbling" opinion is...MS wields wealth beyond any degree any other player in the gaming industry can possibly engage with.

MS's annual net income, as reported at the end of September, was 72 billion dollars.

72. Billion. Dollars.

For context, that is more than ExxonMobil (51 billion), more than Amazon (20 billion), more than Walmart (11 billion) and more than Disney (2 billion). And even more notable, it was up more than 10% over last year.

By contrast, Nintendo's net profit was $3 billion. Sony's was $6 billion.

Now I'm sure that they don't like their gaming division losing money or making big public mistakes. But guys....72 billion dollars. I mean...Xbox is nothing to them.

Anyway, I'd always known they were rich, but I enjoyed getting some perspective on the bigger (and more 2023-oriented) picture. I don't have any particular dog in this race; I just hope this thread is useful/interesting to some of you here.

 

[Dutchy]

I just hope this thread is useful/interesting to some of you here.

doubt it

 

[Banjo64]

None of us knew.

I thought they bought Zenimax and ABK with hopes and dreams.

 

[adamsapple]

I don't think anyone in their right minds will say 'Microsoft' is crumbling because of Xbox sales.

 

[semiconscious]

'if you took all the dollars that ms earned this year, & you stacked them on top of each other, they would form a column that extended from the earth to... about 4 or 5 feet above the earth before it tipped over'...

 

[EverydayBeast]

Microsoft continues to make money Xbox is just an appearance for them to the world.

 

[Archaic101]

d

None of us knew.

I thought they bought Zenimax and ABK with hopes and dreams.

Don't be a douche. There are tons of people here just looking to discuss mechanics and graphics. Not everyone on this forum lives in your corporate finacials and warrantless snark.

 

[Archaic101]

doubt it

*Reads first several replies, wonders why I bothered*

Agreed.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Microsoft profit margins are pretty impressive.

 

[Wildebeest]

If gaming doesn't perform well, then there will be pressure to split it off and let it stand on its own in order to boost the share price of Microsoft. This isn't just a whacky fanboy theory, they have talked about it before.

 

[German Hops]

M$, indeed...

I'll just see myself out.

 

[Zathalus]

Yep, only Apple makes more. Microsoft will likely take the number one spot as Cloud and AI keeps expanding. Microsoft is growing much quicker then Apple is.

 

[bender]

I like randomly bolding words like an asshole, too. When my words can't convey emphasis on their own, typography shall be my crutch.

 

[Sybrix]

If Xbox went under, the cost to Microsoft is the equivalent of any normal person losing a $5 dollar bill.

That's why in the RROD saga they didnt even blink at dropping $1billion to fix the issue.

 

[DForce]

People aren't saying MS is crumbing, people are talking about the Xbox division specifically.

If they were rich and willing to throw any kind of money at the wall, then they would have never cut so many jobs within the past year.

Are you aware of the price increase to their subscription services and consoles?

MS cares about making money. They want that division to do better. Period.

 

[Ronin_7]

I'm sure many of you here know this, so just blow this thread off if you already have this context...

Much has been made of MS's embarassments lately: sagging XBX and XBS sales in Europe, the critical disappointment that is Starfield, the protracted legal battle to (perhaps?) overpay for Activision, the interview snafus of Phil Spencer, etc. And all of the criticism is valid, to one degree or another, imho.

But one thing that is needs to inform every single "MS is crumbling" opinion is...MS wields wealth beyond any degree any other player in the gaming industry can possibly engage with.

MS's annual net income, as reported at the end of September, was 72 billion dollars.

72. Billion. Dollars.

For context, that is more than ExxonMobil (51 billion), more than Amazon (20 billion), more than Walmart (11 billion) and more than Disney (2 billion). And even more notable, it was up more than 10% over last year.

By contrast, Nintendo's net profit was $3 billion. Sony's was $6 billion.

Now I'm sure that they don't like their gaming division losing money or making big public mistakes. But guys....72 billion dollars. I mean...Xbox is nothing to them.

Anyway, I'd always known they were rich, but I enjoyed getting some perspective on the bigger (and more 2023-oriented) picture. I don't have any particular dog in this race; I just hope this thread is useful/interesting to some of you here.

Comparing Amazon to Microsoft doesn't make sense, as Amazon is significantly larger and profits miss was due to losses on a bad investment...
Amazon's revenue far surpasses Microsoft's, and their lower profit margins are primarily due to strategic investments in growth initiatives.

Edit: who tf said Microsoft is crumbling?

Xbox is a shit show, not the other divisions.

 

[Archaic101]

I like randomly bolding words like an asshole, too. When my words can't convey emphasis on their own, typography shall be my crutch.

You are really clever.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

No joke, Sherlock.

Here a gif to forgive the clickbait.

 

[Archaic101]

No joke, Sherlock.

I don't know why I'm engaging, but...off the top of your head, you knew the net incomes of all of the corporations I listed in my thread?

I was merely interested in their earning power this year, hierarchically speaking. But man, the panties that observation seems to have twisted...

 

[ReBurn]

I don't think anyone doubts that Microsoft has financial muscle.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

that's why they are so pathetic along their certified shills. Always bringing up how deep MS's pockets are.

 

[Archaic101]

I don't think anyone doubts that Microsoft has financial muscle.

My point was merely..."How much muscule, relative to other well known businesses in both gaming and otherwise...in 2023 specifically..?"

 

[bender]

You are really clever.

I can't wait for your next thread where you regale us with the obscure fact that McDonalds makes a lot of hamburgers every year.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I'm sure many of you here know this, so just blow this thread off if you already have this context...

Much has been made of MS's embarassments lately: sagging XBX and XBS sales in Europe, the critical disappointment that is Starfield, the protracted legal battle to (perhaps?) overpay for Activision, the interview snafus of Phil Spencer, etc. And all of the criticism is valid, to one degree or another, imho.

But one thing that is needs to inform every single "Xbox is crumbling" opinion is...MS wields wealth beyond any degree any other player in the gaming industry can possibly engage with.

MS's annual net income, as reported at the end of September, was 72 billion dollars.

72. Billion. Dollars.

For context, that is more than ExxonMobil (51 billion), more than Amazon (20 billion), more than Walmart (11 billion) and more than Disney (2 billion). And even more notable, it was up more than 10% over last year.

By contrast, Nintendo's net profit was $3 billion. Sony's was $6 billion.

Now I'm sure that they don't like their gaming division losing money or making big public mistakes. But guys....72 billion dollars. I mean...Xbox is nothing to them.

Anyway, I'd always known they were rich, but I enjoyed getting some perspective on the bigger (and more 2023-oriented) picture. I don't have any particular dog in this race; I just hope this thread is useful/interesting to some of you here.

I dont think their hardware divsion has ever made any money. And if it does I dont think it's much. That hardware division includes Xbox, Surface laptops, mouse/keyboard etc.... I dont know where Linkedin is put in their divisions, but they bought them for $25 billion around years ago. There is no way Linkedin is a super profitable site no matter how many deluxe subs they get and recruiter revenue.

But MS seems to have a gameplan they want their brand to be among the consumer public and not just seen as office life with Windows and corporate servers.

 

[Archaic101]

I can't wait for your next thread where you regale us with the obscure fact that McDonalds makes a lot of hamburgers every year.

I think it's more than 12, but I'll do my research and get back to you.

 

[CoreyFlawless]

I don’t believe they losing money on Xbox. If they was losing money. They wouldn’t be investing this hard on it

 

[SidViscous]

mixing up income and profit numbers in comparisons makes zero sense, not sure what the OP is even trying to get across here, also not even sure where OP's numbers are coming from as they seem completely out.

Sony made 6 billion profit on 88 billion revenue
Xbox (division) made ? profit on around 16 billion revenue, during which time Microsoft as a whole was at 220 billion revenue.

 

[Metnut]

Microsoft doesn’t earn that kind of income by supporting loser ventures indefinitely. Gaming will need to deliver or they’ll move on.

 

[ReBurn]

My point was merely..."How much did muscule, relative to other well known businesses in both gaming and otherwise...in 2023 specifically..?"

I get it. But what does it matter? In the video game space their competitors are multibillion dollar companies sleeping on beds of cash. At some point the distinction stops being relatable when you're comparing who has the best Lamborghini.

 

[Embearded]

I don't think anyone in their right minds will say 'Microsoft' is crumbling because of Xbox sales.

I was just going to write this exact sentence.

Their gaming division alone could be in a worse position than Sony and Nintendo but that doesn't mean they are in danger.
They said it themselves, they are in a position to spend Sony out of competition.

 

[mitch1971]

Cheers, Phil.

 

[poppabk]

I dont think their hardware divsion has ever made any money. And if it does I dont think it's much. That hardware division includes Xbox, Surface laptops, mouse/keyboard etc.... I dont know where Linkedin is put in their divisions, but they bought them for $25 billion around years ago. There is no way Linkedin is a super profitable site no matter how many deluxe subs they get and recruiter revenue.

But MS seems to have a gameplan they want their brand to be among the consumer public and not just seen as office life with Windows and corporate servers.

LinkedIn apparently supplied $15 billion in revenue in 2023. So about 50 -60% of Sonys gaming division revenue in a record year.

 

[phaedrus]

No joke, Sherlock.

Here a gif to forgive the clickbait.

 

[twilo99]

This is how their quarterly looks like.. just look at the profit margin lol

I don't think anyone in their right minds will say 'Microsoft' is crumbling because of Xbox sales.

I lot of people here seem to think exactly that.. or that MS is ran by idiots that just collect paychecks or something

 

[twilo99]

Microsoft doesn’t earn that kind of income by supporting loser ventures indefinitely. Gaming will need to deliver or they’ll move on.

I think they will be alright with break even for a while, but heavy loses will certainly not be tolerated

 

[Bkdk]

Really hope they will execute better, their releases are all on the genres that I liked. Next year I think all the western releases that I would play are probably all from MS if they are out in 2024: Avowed, fable 3 and flight sim new game with some AOE dlcs. MS has been disappointing this year but I'll still be playing all these due to being on the genre I liked most. Hopefully they find a way to deliver better games.

 

[twilo99]

Yep, only Apple makes more. Microsoft will likely take the number one spot as Cloud and AI keeps expanding. Microsoft is growing much quicker then Apple is.

Apple has A LOT of upside on their cloud/services side of things.. leveraging their HUGE and very loyal install base has enormous potential

 

[Crayon]

Yeah we know. Thanks.

 

[twilo99]

Really hope they will execute better, their releases are all on the genres that I liked. Next year I think all the western releases that I would play are probably all from MS if they are out in 2024: Avowed, fable 3 and flight sim new game with some AOE dlcs. MS has been disappointing this year but I'll still be playing all these due to being on the genre I liked most. Hopefully they find a way to deliver better games.

Realistically, bar something extreme happening economically, I would reserve judgment on how Xbox is doing up until 2027-2028

 

[SteadyEvo]

All that money and their best game of the generation is As Dusk Falls. I love that game to death, played it multiple times. It’ll be years before we see these recent acquisitions pay off, if they pay off.

If anything they should be ashamed that “smaller” companies outperform them on a regular basis. I think the answer lies in cultivating talent, not buying it. But what do I know?

 

[T-0800]

Xbox is nothing to them.

We know. That's the problem.

 

[twilo99]

The AI thing is a big bet, look who has been buying Nvidia's AI hardware...

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Separate from if Microsoft could absorb the losses, the opposite view is that Xbox became a massive failure because they were not punished for failing.

If your paycheck comes in every two weeks whether you did any work or not, why should you care about the quality of your work?

 

[twilo99]

We know. That's the problem.

It's really up to Spencer to make it all work.. The board and the CEO obviously care enough to give him 100 billion to spent on the project, so saying that they don't care what happens can't be true.

I think the point is that xbox is not essential to their survival as a company, but I think they like to diversify their income, so xbox is important from that perspective

 

[Pelta88]

Op is talking about Microsoft’s market cap as a way to dismiss the collapse of the XB division…

Who is going to tell/show him Microsoft’s internal deliberations?

 

[Hudo]

Disney (2 billion).

Lmao.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Here I was thinking that for each Xbox they don’t sell ChatGPT goes out there and terminates a thousand Office licenses.

 

[twilo99]

Last year for reference

 

[C2brixx]

Microsoft continues to make money Xbox is just an appearance for them to the world.

If gaming doesn't perform well, then there will be pressure to split it off and let it stand on its own in order to boost the share price of Microsoft. This isn't just a whacky fanboy theory, they have talked about it before.

Xbox FY24 Q1 gaming revenue up 9% year-over-year, driven by first-party games and Xbox Game Pass

Microsoft's financial results for FY24 Q1 indicate gaming revenue is up 9% year-over-year thanks to first-party games and Xbox Game Pass.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Vasto]