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[1-D_FTW]

I really wonder how many who are so opposed have actually ever read a Tom vs Bruce article. I know console-age hates Chick because of his 10 Most Over-rated lists every year (where he has the gall to question sacred cows). It seems that's their only knowledge of the guy.

so lets pay him to play video games instead of save lives, that sounds like a good plan.

It's paying him to waste his valuable free time on providing entertainment for others.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Well it's basically a classified ad on NeoGAF. It's not what I come to the forum for. It'd be nice if Kickstarters were banished to their own thread somewhere.

Once a Kickstarter becomes funded, it's a game announcement. Which is news.

This one obviously isn't that, but it's still interesting due to the people involved.

 

[eznark]

Well it's basically a classified ad on NeoGAF. It's not what I come to the forum for. It'd be nice if Kickstarters were banished to their own thread somewhere.

I come here to be entertained and this is turning into the funniest thread in a long time.

"you guys are paying him to stop saving lives!!!!"

Fucking gold!

 

[onlyindreams]

Okay basically, if his job is so demanding that he doesn't have free time to play video games, that means he would have to give up some scheduled surgical procedures if he knew he was getting $5,000 either way. Well at that point the hospital brings in their B-tier surgeon who fucks up the surgery and someone dies. Then you all got someone killed because you wanted to read an article about video games.

 

[h3ro]

so lets pay him to play video games instead of save lives, that sounds like a good plan.

What a physician does in their own free time is of no consequence to you.

But please, regale us with further 'good plans'.

Okay basically, if his job is so demanding that he doesn't have free time to play video games, that means he would have to give up some scheduled surgical procedures if he knew he was getting $5,000 either way. Well at that point the hospital brings in their B-tier surgeon who fucks up the surgery and someone dies. Then you all got someone killed because you wanted to read an article about video games.

...

holy. shit.

 

[Goldmund]

Kickstarters rub me the wrong way but I love Bruce Geryk, -- what do I do?!

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Okay basically, if his job is so demanding that he doesn't have free time to play video games, that means he would have to give up some scheduled surgical procedures if he knew he was getting $5,000 either way. Well at that point the hospital brings in their B-tier surgeon who fucks up the surgery and someone dies. Then you all got someone killed because you wanted to read an article about video games.

The issue isn't that he literally has no free time. The issue is that he has very little, and doing something like this for free is probably not something he would feel is worth prioritizing.

Honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you?

 

[eznark]

Okay basically, if his job is so demanding that he doesn't have free time to play video games, that means he would have to give up some scheduled surgical procedures if he knew he was getting $5,000 either way. Well at that point the hospital brings in their B-tier surgeon who fucks up the surgery and someone dies. Then you all got someone killed because you wanted to read an article about video games.

I want to fund more of your posts. You are the best.

 

[obonicus]

Yeah, okay, this is getting pretty good.

The issue isn't that he literally has no free time. The issue is that he has very little, and doing something like this for free is probably not something he would feel is worth prioritizing.

Not just that, but the defining element of being a professional games writer is that you get paid for your work.

 

[Palette Swap]

Kickstarters rub me the wrong way but I love Bruce Geryk, -- what do I do?!

You shouldn't. Because if you pay, you'll pay him to KILL PEOPLE, who have families, hopes and dreams.

All crushed because you gave money to a kickstarter project. Think about that.

 

[h3ro]

I want to fund more of your posts. You are the best.

I can't stop reading that post.

 

[Goldmund]

You shouldn't. Because if you pay, you'll pay him to KILL PEOPLE, who have families, hopes and dreams.

All crushed because you gave money to a kickstarter project. Think about that.

I'm more concerned about his appearances on Three Moves Ahead.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Is onlyindreams doing some amazing Astroladding in here or not? I can't tell!!!

 

[HiFiVictor]

Hello, welcome to the internet, that's Tom over there and he's probably one of the nicest guys you'll meet.

 

[Corto]

I won't be pledging for this Kickstarter. Not because I am against the concept of this project or I dislike the people involved (I like and respect Tom Chick work, and absolutely love Dr. Bruce Geryk whenever he participates in Three Moves Ahead). The fact is that in the case of Idle Thumbs i was previously invested in that podcast, I missed it when it terminated. I am sure these Tom vs. Bruce articles are great considering the people involved, but I never read them when they were originally published so I don't miss their work, and don't feel as committed to pledge them some money to create something for my entertainment. Though as I like their work, I hope that there are enough people out there that will make this a successful pledge. Good luck!

 

[JasonUresti]

Don't pay money to things I don't like/wouldn't pay for!!! Stop it, stop it now!!!

 

[eznark]

Okay basically, if his job is so demanding that he doesn't have free time to play video games, that means he would have to give up some scheduled surgical procedures if he knew he was getting $5,000 either way. Well at that point the hospital brings in their B-tier surgeon who fucks up the surgery and someone dies. Then you all got someone killed because you wanted to read an article about video games.

I just wanted to quote this again because it is the best thing the internet has ever produced.

 

[Druz]

"Pay our salaries if you want us to write simple conversations about our inept game playing"

 

[fallout]

"Pay our salaries if you want us to write simple conversations about our inept game playing"

Finally, some more support for this Kickstarter.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I just wanted to quote this again because it is the best thing the internet has ever produced.

Hey, would you want the surgical equivalent of Dave Bush working on you?

 

[eznark]

55% of their goal in less than two days

People are willing to pay for writing they enjoy, at least a couple hundred people are.

 

[onlyindreams]

So where's my check eznark?

 

[eznark]

So where's my check eznark?

Start a kickstarter

 

[Tylahedras]

Kick(start) Tom Chick

 

[obonicus]

(I like and respect Tom Chick work, and absolutely love Dr. Bruce Geryk whenever he participates in Three Moves Ahead)

You should read Geryk's stuff on Qt3, at least. He basically writes about how a 20-year-old computer war game isn't as good as a 30-year-old tabletop wargame, and it's some of the best games writing I've ever read.

Also, for whatever it's worth, Geryk's on the latest Qt3 podcast. I haven't listened to it yet, though. http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2012/05/30/qt3-games-podcast-who-kickstarted/

 

[FStop7]

Chickstarter.

This one just rubs me the wrong way and I normally am all in favor of Kickstarters.

 

[eznark]

You should read Geryk's stuff on Qt3, at least. He basically writes about how a 20-year-old computer war game isn't as good as a 30-year-old tabletop wargame, and it's some of the best games writing I've ever read.

Also, for whatever it's worth, Geryk's on the latest Qt3 podcast. I haven't listened to it yet, though. http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2012/05/30/qt3-games-podcast-who-kickstarted/

Geryk on Three Moves Ahead is always absolute gold.

 

[Shurs]

I'm all for supporting quality writing via Kickstarter -- I pledged money to help start Kill Screen -- but I wonder why he doesn't post these Tom vs Bruce articles on Quarter to Three. It appeared that he was trying to grow the site, as evidenced by getting it recognized by Metacritic. You'd think Tom vs Bruce would be a pretty big asset for QT3.

That said, I do think that I'll pledge. I wish we had more people like Tom Chick in the game press.

 

[Corto]

I'm all for supporting quality writing via Kickstarter -- I pledged money to help start Kill Screen -- but I wonder why he doesn't post these Tom vs Bruce articles on Quarter to Three. It appeared that he was trying to grow the site, as evidenced by getting it recognized by Metacritic. You'd think Tom vs Bruce would be a pretty big asset for QT3.

That said, I do think that I'll pledge. I wish we had more people like Tom Chick in the game press.

They will be published publicly on http://www.tomvsbruce.com/. I'm listening to the QT3 podcast where they talk about this and Tom says that this feature is completely separated from QT3, it's its own thing.

 

[Shurs]

They will be published publicly on http://www.tomvsbruce.com/. I'm listening to the QT3 podcast where they talk about this and Tom says that this feature is completely separated from QT3, it's its own thing.

I get that, I just wonder what his reasoning is behind starting a brand new site for TvB rather than using his own website.

 

[eznark]

I get that, I just wonder what his reasoning is behind starting a brand new site for TvB rather than using his own website.

I'm guessing because Bruce wants ownership as well? They can also more easily show focused interest in the product to potential outlets.

 

[Shurs]

I'm guessing because Bruce wants ownership as well? They can also more easily show focused interest in the product to potential outlets.

That's true.

I have no doubt that this Kickstarter will be fully funded. This will show other outlets that there is definitely an audience for Tom vs Bruce articles.

 

[ihearthawthats]

I really wonder how many who are so opposed have actually ever read a Tom vs Bruce article. I know console-age hates Chick because of his 10 Most Over-rated lists every year (where he has the gall to question sacred cows). It seems that's their only knowledge of the guy.

It's paying him to waste his valuable free time on providing entertainment for others.

i just read one of his articles to see what all the fuss was about. i read the one on guild wars, and having played the game myself i wasn't impressed by it. my impressions were similar to this:

"Pay our salaries if you want us to write simple conversations about our inept game playing"

i mean it was a little funny, but other than that i didn't quite understand the point of the article. it didn't quite review the game and it provided very little insight. maybe it was just this one article, i don't know, but it didn't sound like they knew the game all that well.

that being said, i don't actually oppose the idea of this kickstarter. people can fund whatever interests them. the only kickstarter projects i don't agree with are the scams, or those that don't follow through with the project in the end.

 

[BruiserBear]

It's amazing to see how far this kickstarter thing is gonna go. I wouldn't give money to anyone producing a podcast or writing articles about games.

 

[brian]

It's amazing to see how far this kickstarter thing is gonna go. I wouldn't give money to anyone producing a podcast or writing articles about games.

So you're fine with the current state of big business companies throwing ad money and game access into mainstream sites in exchange for coverage and favorable review scores for their mediocre games. I would happily pay good writers/podcasters directly for quality games journalism who approach things with a critical eye rather than get bullshit spoon fed to me for free by sites like IGN and Gamespot.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

So you're fine with the current state of big business companies throwing ad money and game access into mainstream sites in exchange for coverage and favorable review scores for their mediocre games. I would happily pay good writers/podcasters directly for quality games journalism who approach things with a critical eye rather than get bullshit spoon fed to me for free by sites like IGN and Gamespot.

Hadn't even considered that but that's an interesting point. And that's not to say that all these guys are blatantly on the take--or most, or even some--but pressure is pressure. It can't help but be in the back of a reviewer's mind.

 

[eznark]

Over 60% and someone has grabbed the $1000 pledge. My prediction of funding by the weekend is feeling good!

 

[tomchick]

i just read one of his articles to see what all the fuss was about. i read the one on guild wars, and having played the game myself i wasn't impressed by it. my impressions were similar to this:

i mean it was a little funny, but other than that i didn't quite understand the point of the article. it didn't quite review the game and it provided very little insight. maybe it was just this one article, i don't know, but it didn't sound like they knew the game all that well.

Thanks so much for at least checking out one of the articles, Mr. Hawthats. Seriously, I appreciate it. I wish more folks in this thread would set aside their ARGLEBARGLETOMCHICKHATESDEUSEX, or whatever else is going on, and just give us a chance.

If it doesn't work for you, that's totally cool. But two things I'd want to point out about the Guild Wars article:

1) This might be too much "inside the sausage factory", but sometimes this schtick is that Bruce is clueless and I'm overzealous. There's a kernel of truth there, but we'll occasionally, uh, exaggerate it. You can see some of that in the Guild Wars article. At that time, we were both pretty serious Guild Wars players.

2) Sometimes when we do a game that we feel is well known, we don't really explain it very well. That's certainly a valid complaint, but it's an intentional choice. We're figuring a lot of our audience is already playing it. But for examples of somewhat lesser known games, where we're trying to be more careful to also communicate information about the game, I'd recommend our articles on The Political Machine or Star Chamber.

Again, if it's not for you, that's totally cool. We're frankly a bit surprised that our editors at CGW let us make dopey jokes about economists and devote three pages to obscure strategy games like Star Chamber. But thanks for at least giving us a chance and if we get funded, we hope you'll check out some of the articles we post in the future.

-Tom

 

[brian]

Argh, your Star Chamber reference just made me check out if I can still play it. Apparently Sony shut it down this year? That's terrible. It's a game I still love and try to pick back up every couple of years.

 

[eznark]

He just reminded me of how bullshit it is that Stardock isn't including Gary Johnson in TPM '12.

HOW CAN BRAD TURN HIS BACK ON HIS OWN PEOPLE!?

 

[Vice]

Okay basically, if his job is so demanding that he doesn't have free time to play video games, that means he would have to give up some scheduled surgical procedures if he knew he was getting $5,000 either way. Well at that point the hospital brings in their B-tier surgeon who fucks up the surgery and someone dies. Then you all got someone killed because you wanted to read an article about video games.

I think most doctors do get time off so they can relax and rest so they don't fuck someones life up because they're too haggard.

They're asking for money because they believe that their writing has value, they've been payed for it before, and $5000 a piece for 10 articles is a pretty fair rate.

 

[eznark]

They are at 70% so it looks like my prediction won't happen. I listened to the QT3 podcast and it sounds like they are going to be making additions to the rewards as the days roll on though. Certainly sounds like they expected this to be a bit more difficult than it has been thus far.

 

[Tellaerin]

It's amazing to see how far this kickstarter thing is gonna go. I wouldn't give money to anyone producing a podcast or writing articles about games.

It's another case of cutting out the middleman.

If would-be game developers can solicit funding for their projects directly from the intended audience without having to rely on a publisher, why shouldn't people working in other media do the same? In both cases, you have the audience financing the creation of works that wouldn't otherwise exist, and again in both cases, you're giving the creators more creative freedom by cutting the publisher out of the financial equation. How is this bad, exactly?

 

[MC Safety]

It's another case of cutting out the middleman.

If would-be game developers can solicit funding for their projects directly from the intended audience without having to rely on a publisher, why shouldn't people working in other media do the same? In both cases, you have the audience financing the creation of works that wouldn't otherwise exist, and again in both cases, you're giving the creators more creative freedom by cutting the publisher out of the financial equation. How is this bad, exactly?

Well, vanity projects present their own problems.

 

[Tellaerin]

Well, vanity projects present their own problems.

So long as the majority of the contributors are satisfied with the result, it doesn't matter, does it? Not all vanity projects are inherently without merit. And if the final product makes a poor impression on people, the creator most likely won't be able to fund any more projects that way, so there's still pressure there to deliver something that doesn't suck.

Would you really class something like this as a 'vanity project', anyway?

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Seems like a fine line between "vanity project" and "project with a singular vision." The latter framing is something many people would like to see more of in games.

 

[MC Safety]

So long as the majority of the contributors are satisfied with the result, it doesn't matter, does it? Not all vanity projects are inherently without merit. And if the final product makes a poor impression on people, the creator most likely won't be able to fund any more projects that way, so there's still pressure there to deliver something that doesn't suck.

Would you really class something like this as a 'vanity project', anyway?

I like Tom Chick's writing, but he benefits from having an editor.

Please don't assume I think all vanity projects are without merit. But they do present their own problems, and I'm sure you don't need me to point them out.

 

[eznark]

Update:

About halfway through and they are chugging along. 83% of the way to the goal with 16 days left.

 

[alstein]

I like Tom Chick's writing, but he benefits from having an editor.

Please don't assume I think all vanity projects are without merit. But they do present their own problems, and I'm sure you don't need me to point them out.

Nearly everyone benefits from having an editor. I know I do the few times I wrote something.

 

[eznark]

funded

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2023800195/the-return-of-tom-vs-bruce

Now they have stretch goals:

With a little over a week to go, we're not done yet! We're proud to announce a very special stretch goal. If we can get our total support up to $12,500, we'll be recruiting some gifted contributors for three of the articles in the upcoming year. We couldn't be happier to work with these three folks, and we're confident they're names you'll recognize. Over the next three days, we'll unveil them one at a time.

And, as we mentioned, the first Tom vs Bruce match is already underway. To give you a hint, it's based on a moderately popular -- but we think not popular enough -- franchise that wasn't originally a videogame. More details to come.

Again, our sincere thanks for you guys' generous support. Remember to follow us on Twitter at @tomvsbruce and please spread the word to help us with this final push.