was that the most a kickstarter ever got?
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Kick(start) Tom Chick
- Thread starter eznark
- Start date
was that the most a kickstarter ever got?
Neuromancer
Member
The Robocop statue in Detroit
It shouldn't be, since the Internet's existence has made quite clear the vast majority of people are unwilling to pay money for writing.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
The e-paper smartphone watch raised over $10 million.
The thing is over 3k funded already...
But fact is this is fleecing the community. They're going to get the 10k but they'll also put up ads so they can get them clicks and get double paid. Lot's of people buy kindle books and shit like that but that doesn't mean a play by play of a friendly game of Civilization deserves $1000.
Magazines were paying them that much because they expected to make the money back via ad sales and news stand purchases. These guys will be making salary plus ad revenue.
POWERSPHERE
Banned
That's a good idea, though.
Kickstarter is ment to be funding for good, fresh ideas that don't have any way of getting backing. Kickstarter themselves won't stop people abusing it as they pull in the big money with all this nonsense. These guys are just cheating, really. Why don't they just charge a subscription to their website? It's the same diff, but with a very different image attached.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Who are they swindling? Who is donating money without understanding what it is they are donating money to?
Good video game writing (and let's just assume that plenty of people consider Tom and Bruce to be that) is certainly not in abundance, and doesn't appear to be worth the investment for the biggest outlets. If you want game writing that isn't for the lowest common denominator, it needs a special source of funding. And here it is.
Or vacation money, I guess.
Surely determining this is up to the backers, right?
With CGW dead, no one's funding these articles.
If you're talking about putting a subscriber system on tomvsbruce.com, there is a big distinction between the two. Kickstarter's the patronage system, you only do the work if you're received enough to be able to afford it; taking subscriber money means that now you're beholden even if you don't meet your goal and only 5 people sign up.
butter_stick
Banned
Kickstarters; shadyer than everer
Jasper Avenue
Member
Fun Fact: Tom Chick played the role of Gil, Oscar's boyfriend on The Office.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
A lot of people are getting upset because they see it as flying in the face of what Kickstarter is supposed to be for: getting projects off the ground that are too expensive for an individual or small group to fund alone. Things like games and physical products have huge overhead and cost a ton of money to make upfront. Writing articles, on the otherhand, is comparatively very cheap. I'm pretty confident that if they even just put this shit on a Tumblr, no one would care. It doesn't need special hosting, and even if it did, that can be taken care of on Tom's site.
Fact is, this is way over-paying for what will probably amount to relatively little work for $500/article; The math just seems way off, even if it is what they made at CGW. Maybe that's one of the reasons, among many, that it went under. That, and having a magazine in fucking California. Sure, you save money on airfare, but you also have to pay out the ass in salaries and rent because of the average cost of living. And the rise of the Internet, obviously. But now I'm getting sidetracked...
Listen, people who are saying "why can't people pay for what they want?!" are missing the point. People aren't saying you can't pay for it. They're saying you're a fool to pay someone with the connections they have and the relative ease with which they could do it, that much money. They're exploiting their fans; but, as I said, they have a right to be exploited, if they want.
Fact is, this is way over-paying for what will probably amount to relatively little work for $500/article; The math just seems way off, even if it is what they made at CGW. Maybe that's one of the reasons, among many, that it went under. That, and having a magazine in fucking California. Sure, you save money on airfare, but you also have to pay out the ass in salaries and rent because of the average cost of living. And the rise of the Internet, obviously. But now I'm getting sidetracked...
Listen, people who are saying "why can't people pay for what they want?!" are missing the point. People aren't saying you can't pay for it. They're saying you're a fool to pay someone with the connections they have and the relative ease with which they could do it, that much money. They're exploiting their fans; but, as I said, they have a right to be exploited, if they want.
Bullshit. Kickstarter is meant to match money and projects. That's it. Any other goal or aim is something you've created in your mind.
He also had a role on the West Wing.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
Those are the only ones that make any sense--ones with actual monetary and/or logistical barriers to be overcome. Why would you fund people who are perfectly capable of doing it themselves with relatively little time? Because they're essentially holding a (relatively small) project ransom? Personally, if I were a fan of theirs, I'd be insulted by that. I'm sure they could shop it around to numerous sites and get paid a fair amount for it and save their fans from footing the bill, but it wouldn't get what they will here.
Again, you can pay for it, sure. I just think it's insulting to tell their fans that they should pony up for it, is all. You're free to disagree.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
No one is a fool for buying something they want at a price they find reasonable. Whether the product in question could be created through other means is irrelevant. All that matters is an individual judges the product to be worth their money. All of the complaints you have listed are perfectly valid reasons to make the personal decision not to support this project, or any project like it. What's confusing is why you feel the need to project your personal assessment of its value onto everyone else.
I want it so they should do it for freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, how hard is writing anyway.
And god damn it why are all these magazines and web sites I like dying?
These guys already have income and have been paid for writing.
The issue you mention has a lot to do with the exploitation of the young, unemployed workforce through unpaid internships and blogging for ad revenue sites that doesn't get paid or gets paid a paltry penny or nickel per word.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
What? That doesn't make sense. So if I were to pay $50,000 for a rusted-out 1996 Cavalier tomorrow, I wouldn't be a fool? I mean, sure, art/writing is harder to give an objective value to, but that statement just makes no damn sense. People can easily be foolish by over-paying for things.
Also, why am I discussing my opinion? Because it's a forum... I'm not sure what you don't understand about that. I'm free to give my opinion on the topic at hand, as are you. This is how things are discussed. We're even doing it right now: I think it's absurd to pay that much for 10 articles, and to ask fans to pay it instead of a site, and you disagree. We are discussing this.
Keep beating up that strawman, tough guy.
Can you afford it? If so, I see nothing wrong with it.
And you saying this is easily something they could be doing without help, do you really put zero value on your time?
They have a skill that people will pay them for. They'd be foolish to not capitalize on that.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
wish the ULTRA GAMEPLAYERS guys would do something like this.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
What some people will say to remain consistent... sigh, I think I've made my point.
Also, I find it impressive that you can utilize both a strawman argument and a false dichotomy at the same time. Impressive!
It's not really outrage, I think, so much as expressing an opinion, and maybe some disappointment; I'm far from "outraged", personally. Maybe a bit misanthropic, but that's chronic with me
Anyway, I'm done arguing in circles here. You boys have fun, now!
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I always wondered if Scorpia was an amalgam writer like Quartermann or The Rumor Bag, and the column just got passed down to different writers over the years.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
It's obvious I fucked up.
Most of the time I have to buy the games I review and I get paid zippo.
Paying to write. That's what it is. I'm an absolute joke.
Most of the time I have to buy the games I review and I get paid zippo.
Paying to write. That's what it is. I'm an absolute joke.
Scorpia tried to keep writing on her website for a while. In 2009, she decided to stop writing when the site revenue could only just cover its cost.
http://www.scorpia.com/?p=1529#more-1529
Palette Swap
Member
I honestly don't see the issue with them estimating that writing 10 articles is worth $5000 of their time.
What do you think the other kickstarters pay...?
DoubleFine Adventure was raising money just to pay its employees for the period of making an adventure game. This is the exact same thing.
Amazing. A person can kickstart damn near anything I guess. This Bruce guy must not work cheap or something. People want to pay for articles from a guy who writes such riveting stuff such as -
More power to them. They are 1/3 of the way to it. We got gamers who complain about the cost of damn near everything but will pay for a kickstarter like this. Amazing.
More power to them. They are 1/3 of the way to it. We got gamers who complain about the cost of damn near everything but will pay for a kickstarter like this. Amazing.
Yeah it kind of does.
Can't have that mentality running around though.
Why is that wrong? Why must they go past a middleman?
I agree. I don't think that $500 for each them for a successful monthly article is too much to ask.
PigSpeakers
Member
I swear I always think this guy is the christian comic books guy.
Red Blaster
Member
Why would anyone give money to someone who unironically stated that Mass Effect 3 had a satisfying conclusion
you're right - its probably the going rate in the industry...
but most of their articles is stuff you can read anywhere else.
im glad kickstarter is going this way to be honest - i really don't like the site - and right now its just beggars panning for money... so hopefully kickstarter dies a quick death soon. if this project gets up, we'll see similar less worthy causes to donate money to and hopefully people will start to just ignore the site and traffic will die.
XANDER CAGE
Member
The difference, or at least how I see it, is that most Kickstarters exist because they help people do things they could not do otherwise. Double Fine are a bunch of talented folks, but without a budget there is no game - production cost, salaries, etc etc need to be covered, and that takes a lot of money.
With this Kickstarter, the product on offer really doesn't require much overhead. Playing a multiplayer game with a friend for a little bit and then writing an article about the experience might use some of your trade skills - I'm not trying to diminish either of their writing skill or the value of a good writer - but there's pretty much nothing in their way financially. One is a successful writer, the other is a surgeon. Sure, they'll need to take some time out of their days to do this stuff, but at the end of the day they aren't working for a magazine anymore, so expecting to be paid essentially 500 dollars per article just seems a little absurd, especially when the best they can come up with in the "Where does the money go?" section is "we gotta get good screenshots" which doesn't require money at all so I don't even know what that means.
I'm not outraged but I do find the product on offer (and its backer rewards) oddly slim for the asking price. If they were launching a magazine or trying to turn this into a new business, I'd be much more understanding, but 10,000 dollars is a tall order for a really short reunion tour.
you're right - its probably the going rate in the industry...
but most of their articles is stuff you can read anywhere else.
im glad kickstarter is going this way to be honest - i really don't like the site - and right now its just beggars panning for money... so hopefully kickstarter dies a quick death soon. if this project gets up, we'll see similar less worthy causes to donate money to and hopefully people will start to just ignore the site and traffic will die.
Why would anyone care less about something on kickstarter because a project they don't care about got funded? Doesn't that happen every single day?
I swear to god you people are crazy bitter or something
Majima Everywhere System
Member
I can't wait for a bunch of developers to come out in support of this and proceed to shove this down my throat...
Oh wait.
Oh wait.
Nice find, I'll gladly report it.
You'd be wasting your time, as it isn't.
Wow, tough room!
However, I totally get that some folks would have reservations about supporting this. We're not providing a traditional product like a lot of Kickstarter projects. What we're providing is entertainment, not unlike a Kickstarter project for an independent film, or a comic book, or a band. It's no different than paying someone to write a book, except that the book will be online, over the course of a year, and you know exactly what sort of book you're getting.
(If you don't know what we do, I hope you'll take a look at the archives at 1up before you write us off. We're really proud of the way the series evolved over the years. Just click on any game and you'll know pretty quickly whether it's the sort of thing you'd enjoy.)
As for why we're not just doing this for free, that's a fair question. The most immediate answer is that we feel we should be compensated for the work we do. That's how entertainment works. Just as Joss Whedon didn't make The Avengers for free, Ben Croshaw doesn't do ZP for free, and Sean Bean isn't in Game of Thrones for free (I still haven't finished the first season...)
But another answer to the question is that we're using Kickstarter as a way to gauge interest and ultimately to motivate ourselves. If no one is interested in the series, that's cool. We had pretty much resigned ourselves to that after we couldn't get anyone to pick up Tom vs. Bruce when CGW folded. But now we figure Kickstarter is a way to directly determine whether or not there's still an audience for what we do. Isn't that what Kickstarter is all about? Appealing directly to an audience?
Furthermore, we would welcome being beholden to a group of supporters who expect regular episodes. We'd love for Tom vs. Bruce to be a part of our monthly schedules again, but only if we know there's a demand for it. If you don't want to support it, if you don't want to be part of that demand, that's totally fine. If we get funding, I hope you'll enjoy what we do anyway.
If you're on the fence, there's no hurry. Read over some of our earlier articles, read the sort of stuff that Bruce writes, or that I write, and take some time to consider whether you feel we're worth your money. There are plenty of places you can spend your entertainment dollar, and we don't expect you to give it to us lightly. It's entirely reasonable to take that money and go see The Avengers again, or to support Carmaggedon, or to get the Arkham City DLC.
And if you simply don't want to support the guy who gave Journey 2 stars, remember that I only get half of what you contribute! Bruce hasn't played Journey, but I'm sure if he did, he'd love it.
-Tom
However, I totally get that some folks would have reservations about supporting this. We're not providing a traditional product like a lot of Kickstarter projects. What we're providing is entertainment, not unlike a Kickstarter project for an independent film, or a comic book, or a band. It's no different than paying someone to write a book, except that the book will be online, over the course of a year, and you know exactly what sort of book you're getting.
(If you don't know what we do, I hope you'll take a look at the archives at 1up before you write us off. We're really proud of the way the series evolved over the years. Just click on any game and you'll know pretty quickly whether it's the sort of thing you'd enjoy.)
As for why we're not just doing this for free, that's a fair question. The most immediate answer is that we feel we should be compensated for the work we do. That's how entertainment works. Just as Joss Whedon didn't make The Avengers for free, Ben Croshaw doesn't do ZP for free, and Sean Bean isn't in Game of Thrones for free (I still haven't finished the first season...)
But another answer to the question is that we're using Kickstarter as a way to gauge interest and ultimately to motivate ourselves. If no one is interested in the series, that's cool. We had pretty much resigned ourselves to that after we couldn't get anyone to pick up Tom vs. Bruce when CGW folded. But now we figure Kickstarter is a way to directly determine whether or not there's still an audience for what we do. Isn't that what Kickstarter is all about? Appealing directly to an audience?
Furthermore, we would welcome being beholden to a group of supporters who expect regular episodes. We'd love for Tom vs. Bruce to be a part of our monthly schedules again, but only if we know there's a demand for it. If you don't want to support it, if you don't want to be part of that demand, that's totally fine. If we get funding, I hope you'll enjoy what we do anyway.
If you're on the fence, there's no hurry. Read over some of our earlier articles, read the sort of stuff that Bruce writes, or that I write, and take some time to consider whether you feel we're worth your money. There are plenty of places you can spend your entertainment dollar, and we don't expect you to give it to us lightly. It's entirely reasonable to take that money and go see The Avengers again, or to support Carmaggedon, or to get the Arkham City DLC.
And if you simply don't want to support the guy who gave Journey 2 stars, remember that I only get half of what you contribute! Bruce hasn't played Journey, but I'm sure if he did, he'd love it.
-Tom
Might be up for interpretation, then.
Also, it took 3 clicks and 5 words, that's nothing for a chance at trying to bring the shadiest kickstarter after Republique down.
XANDER CAGE
Member
It's pretty cool of you to respond to this thread. For the record, I think that this:
Would be a much, much better paragraph to put on your page than this:
Kickstarter Page said:
I definitely don't think y'all should work for free, but I think your current "what's the funding for?" section sort of tiptoes around your valuation of your own work. If 10,000 bucks is what you think is fair then so be it - that's for you guys to decide and backers to agree on - but I think that paragraph is a much more confident way of putting it than simply saying that you need money to get screenshots and also you used to get paid that much.
To put it another way: if this is breaking Kickstarter ToS, so is Doublefine Adventure.
We can debate the respective merits of either project, but both are simply just paying wages.
Wait, some of you guys really think this is a shady enterprise to the point that you're complaining to Kickstarter to try to get us pulled? Sheesh, it's not like we're doing tentacle porn or something!
BigJiant, point taken. We definitely could have done a better job with that section.
-Tom
BigJiant, point taken. We definitely could have done a better job with that section.
-Tom